Thoughts. Porn, good, bad or indifferent?

[catzmeow]

Actually, BDSM was in a hay-day during the time Gunny mentioned, so it is true. It's no longer as popular, many seeing it for the abuse that it is thankfully.

It's funny how Rodishi conveniently forgets to mention the Bettie Page era.

 

[stekim]

Actually, BDSM was in a hay-day during the time Gunny mentioned, so it is true. It's no longer as popular, many seeing it for the abuse that it is thankfully.

It's not abuse if you like it! Where I come from someone asking to be spanked is not being abused. A battered wife is abused. Let's not compare the two. Just because someone likes to be spanked during sex does not mean they condone getting their ass kicked because dinner was cold. Jeez. And you may want to check out a porn store. It's probably the most popular "specialty" category in the store aside from gay sex.

 

[catzmeow]

Just...to be clear. I don't particularly enjoy most porn. It's artificial, contrived, and frankly - dull. I don't want my kids watching porn. But, I do think that in all our zeal to condemn online porn, we seem to forget, really easily, that it is really the job of parents to control their kids' online access. I am not about allowing parents to abdicate their responsibilities. If they can't facilitate ensuring that their children can safely access the internet without major snafus, then they shouldn't buy a goddamn computer and allow it to babysit their kids, in the first place.

Beyond that, as much of a role as the media plays in our society, it is insignificant in comparison to the role of responsible, responsive, involved parents.

Instead of censoring what I believe to be free speech, it's important for parents to step up and do their goddamn jobs.

That's my opinion on the matter.

 

[KittenKoder]

Actually, BDSM was in a hay-day during the time Gunny mentioned, so it is true. It's no longer as popular, many seeing it for the abuse that it is thankfully.

It's not abuse if you like it! Where I come from someone asking to be spanked is not being abused. A battered wife is abused. Let's not compare the two. Just because someone likes to be spanked during sex does not mean they condone getting their ass kicked because dinner was cold. Jeez. And you may want to check out a porn store. It's probably the most popular "specialty" category in the store aside from gay sex.

There is a problem with that "asking and it's not abuse", we have seen that many who are abused regularly WILL ask for the abuse, simply because they equate it with love, which is the reason most people are now against BDSM. Unless all those involved are EXTREMELY stable mentally and have no history of abuse in the family, it's too much a risk to take. First thing you learn when getting help as an abused person, you have to break the cycle, you have to stop seeking out that abuse you are use to. It's like people who sleep on the floor for several years, then switch to a really soft mattress, same concept, abuse becomes the comfort zone.

 

[catzmeow]

For the record, I have the same philosophy in regards to facebook/myspace. My daughter has one, and has one them for years, since she started middle school. I helped her create her myspace profile, and set it up so that only her friends, who knew her last name, could even see her or request to be added as a friend. Parents really wig out about the internet these days, when in fact, it isn't that scary...IF YOU ARE INVOLVED IN YOUR KIDS' USE OF IT.

That's the key. You can't keep your kids offline. I've seen lots of parents of my kids' friends try to. The kids end up going behind their backs, and then getting into all kinds of trouble. Our kids are an internet culture these days. Internet and text is what they use to communicate. We, as parents, have to be that much smarter and more astute when it comes to internet usage.

My kids are both online gamers, I play the same games they do, and have for years, just to keep an eye on their activities and make sure they are safe. And we talk about giving out info to strangers, and other kinds of safety protocols that our family has.

The internet is one area where I don't worry that much about my kids, because I am THERE, with them.

 

[stekim]

There is a problem with that "asking and it's not abuse", we have seen that many who are abused regularly WILL ask for the abuse, simply because they equate it with love, which is the reason most people are now against BDSM.

What does that even mean? Most people are "against it"? Do they want it banned? Or do they just not like it? Those are two far different things. And the first part has nothing to do with S&M.

Unless all those involved are EXTREMELY stable mentally and have no history of abuse in the family, it's too much a risk to take.

And how do you propose the government determine this? An S&M license?

First thing you learn when getting help as an abused person, you have to break the cycle, you have to stop seeking out that abuse you are use to.

That's all well and good for people who are actually being abused. But it doesn't apply at all to people who just enjoy S&M.

 

[catzmeow]

There is a problem with that "asking and it's not abuse", we have seen that many who are abused regularly WILL ask for the abuse, simply because they equate it with love, which is the reason most people are now against BDSM. Unless all those involved are EXTREMELY stable mentally and have no history of abuse in the family, it's too much a risk to take. First thing you learn when getting help as an abused person, you have to break the cycle, you have to stop seeking out that abuse you are use to. It's like people who sleep on the floor for several years, then switch to a really soft mattress, same concept, abuse becomes the comfort zone.

I totally understand what you are saying. However, speaking as someone that has been there, done that, for some people, it is a way of reinventing the abuse they suffered, where they can write an alternate ending that is healthier than the way things ended when they were kids.

My parents were big on hitting us. My brother and I got hit most weeks, often in the face. I walked around a few times with handprints on my face where my mom had slapped me hard enough to leave a bruise. No one ever asked why. I thought it was normal. I thought all kids were hit with switches, wooden spoons, hands, spatulas, hangers, and belts. That's how my parents were raised, and that's how they raised us. Our home was very high in terms of the level of violence directed at the kids, and the level of hostility between our parents.

Even when I was working, for years, with abused kids, I didn't realize that my upbringing was abnormal. It literally took me 20 years to work this shit out inside of my head.

I will say that, personally, I don't think that a spanking now and then is damaging. I do think that people who have a sexual need to be humiliated and degraded, though, probably have issues in their upbringing that they need to deal with.

I don't hit my kids. My parents cured me of the idea that it was effective parenting. There are literally dozens of possible responses when your children break the rules. Hitting is the least effective in almost every scenario, based upon research, with the exception of a minimal smack on the butt to a 2-year-old who is simply out of control.

The detrimental impact of hitting your children, especially after the toddler years, is really long-lasting, and it comes out in ways that we really don't understand. Reading the study that I linked for Rodishi really impacted me, because I fell into the most high-risk category as a result of my upbringing, and I definitely see a correlation looking back over the last 40+ years of my life.

 

[KittenKoder]

There is a problem with that "asking and it's not abuse", we have seen that many who are abused regularly WILL ask for the abuse, simply because they equate it with love, which is the reason most people are now against BDSM.

What does that even mean? Most people are "against it"? Do they want it banned? Or do they just not like it? Those are two far different things. And the first part has nothing to do with S&M.

Unless all those involved are EXTREMELY stable mentally and have no history of abuse in the family, it's too much a risk to take.

And how do you propose the government determine this? An S&M license?

First thing you learn when getting help as an abused person, you have to break the cycle, you have to stop seeking out that abuse you are use to.

That's all well and good for people who are actually being abused. But it doesn't apply at all to people who just enjoy S&M.

Wow .. um ... really, are you trying to look for an argument?

1. Against it is a broad scoped term, some just don't want to see it and choose not to, others try to get it banned. I don't view porn so you could say I fall into the first type by default.

2. I don't give a rat's ass what the government does and don't think they should give a rat's ass about what people do with their own lives.

3. People can think they enjoy something even when it hurts them, so that is just a stupid assumption on your part. Seems you know little about what it's like to be abused or you were just lucky enough to be one of the few who didn't fall into the cycle.

Catz understood what I said and meant, but then since you're new I will excuse this slip of the tongue and not hold it against you.

 

[KittenKoder]

There is a problem with that "asking and it's not abuse", we have seen that many who are abused regularly WILL ask for the abuse, simply because they equate it with love, which is the reason most people are now against BDSM. Unless all those involved are EXTREMELY stable mentally and have no history of abuse in the family, it's too much a risk to take. First thing you learn when getting help as an abused person, you have to break the cycle, you have to stop seeking out that abuse you are use to. It's like people who sleep on the floor for several years, then switch to a really soft mattress, same concept, abuse becomes the comfort zone.

I totally understand what you are saying. However, speaking as someone that has been there, done that, for some people, it is a way of reinventing the abuse they suffered, where they can write an alternate ending that is healthier than the way things ended when they were kids.

My parents were big on hitting us. My brother and I got hit most weeks, often in the face. I walked around a few times with handprints on my face where my mom had slapped me hard enough to leave a bruise. No one ever asked why. I thought it was normal. I thought all kids were hit with switches, wooden spoons, hands, spatulas, hangers, and belts. That's how my parents were raised, and that's how they raised us. Our home was very high in terms of the level of violence directed at the kids, and the level of hostility between our parents.

Even when I was working, for years, with abused kids, I didn't realize that my upbringing was abnormal. It literally took me 20 years to work this shit out inside of my head.

I will say that, personally, I don't think that a spanking now and then is damaging. I do think that people who have a sexual need to be humiliated and degraded, though, probably have issues in their upbringing that they need to deal with.

I don't hit my kids. My parents cured me of the idea that it was effective parenting. There are literally dozens of possible responses when your children break the rules. Hitting is the least effective in almost every scenario, based upon research, with the exception of a minimal smack on the butt to a 2-year-old who is simply out of control.

The detrimental impact of hitting your children, especially after the toddler years, is really long-lasting, and it comes out in ways that we really don't understand. Reading the study that I linked for Rodishi really impacted me, because I fell into the most high-risk category as a result of my upbringing, and I definitely see a correlation looking back over the last 40+ years of my life.

A lot depends on how it is handled and viewed by those involved, so I grant that possibility.

I was abused medically and religiously (yes, my hang ups about a specific religion stem from that) which was not recognized as abuse until long after I had moved out. I never saw spanking as abuse if done "lightly" and with a lecture of why. The lecture to me was the best punishment dealt, my father could lecture for hours, I think I inherited his longwindedness myself ...

 

[catzmeow]

Catz understood what I said and meant, but then since you're new I will excuse this slip of the tongue and not hold it against you.

He might like it if you held your slip of the tongue against him.

 

[stekim]

3. People can think they enjoy something even when it hurts them, so that is just a stupid assumption on your part.

What is a stupid assumption? I'm afraid I didn't quite follow you here.

Seems you know little about what it's like to be abused or you were just lucky enough to be one of the few who didn't fall into the cycle.

Or maybe I just know what abuse really is and what it's clearly not.

 

[Dis]

3. People can think they enjoy something even when it hurts them, so that is just a stupid assumption on your part.

What is a stupid assumption? I'm afraid I didn't quite follow you here.

Seems you know little about what it's like to be abused or you were just lucky enough to be one of the few who didn't fall into the cycle.

Or maybe I just know what abuse really is and what it's clearly not.

Your avatar has a really high creep factor..

 

[KittenKoder]

3. People can think they enjoy something even when it hurts them, so that is just a stupid assumption on your part.

What is a stupid assumption? I'm afraid I didn't quite follow you here.

Seems you know little about what it's like to be abused or you were just lucky enough to be one of the few who didn't fall into the cycle.

Or maybe I just know what abuse really is and what it's clearly not.

Begs the question: have you lived with abuse ... ever?

Have you had your whole existence taken down to the level of being nothing more than an object by anyone, especially your own parent(s)? Have you ever been told every day that you "asked for this"? That's abuse, all abuse is based on these principles, whether it's physical, mental, medical, religious, sexual, or any other form. If you have not then you do not know what abuse really is.

 

[catzmeow]

Your avatar has a really high creep factor..

Just imagine his porn consumption.

 

[catzmeow]

Begs the question: have you lived with abuse ... ever?

Have you had your whole existence taken down to the level of being nothing more than an object by anyone, especially your own parent(s)? Have you ever been told every day that you "asked for this"? That's abuse, all abuse is based on these principles, whether it's physical, mental, medical, religious, sexual, or any other form. If you have not then you do not know what abuse really is.

I get it, Kitten. But an occasional smack on the ass during sex does not equal abuse. It just doesn't. Nor does a bite on the nape of the neck.

mmmm.

Okay, starting to get distracted now, must refocus on work.

 

[stekim]

Begs the question: have you lived with abuse ... ever?

Yes. And just like someone who has actually been the victim of racism or sexual assault I find it a tad insulting when people call something "abuse" when it's quite clearly not. It cheapens the actual abuse. Some people get turned on sexually by a little hair pulling, spanking or whatever. That's 180 degress from "abuse".

 

[stekim]

Your avatar has a really high creep factor..

You should see me in real life.

 

[KittenKoder]

Begs the question: have you lived with abuse ... ever?

Have you had your whole existence taken down to the level of being nothing more than an object by anyone, especially your own parent(s)? Have you ever been told every day that you "asked for this"? That's abuse, all abuse is based on these principles, whether it's physical, mental, medical, religious, sexual, or any other form. If you have not then you do not know what abuse really is.

I get it, Kitten. But an occasional smack on the ass during sex does not equal abuse. It just doesn't. Nor does a bite on the nape of the neck.

mmmm.

Okay, starting to get distracted now, must refocus on work.

I wasn't posting that to you, but if it floats your boat I won't argue it, as I said, with full BDSM both parties need to be stable (or possibly in with the goal you mentioned).

 

[KittenKoder]

Begs the question: have you lived with abuse ... ever?

Yes. And just like someone who has actually been the victim of racism or sexual assault I find it a tad insulting when people call something "abuse" when it's quite clearly not. It cheapens the actual abuse. Some people get turned on sexually by a little hair pulling, spanking or whatever. That's 180 degress from "abuse".

Really, what did I post that was not abuse? Inquiring minds want to know ... maybe not but it would be interested to see how you marginalize one form of abuse like they use to before they finally recognized what it really is.

Oh, and if you think BDSM is really just "a little hair pulling" then you REALLY have no idea what we are talking about.

 

[stekim]

Oh, and if you think BDSM is really just "a little hair pulling" then you REALLY have no idea what we are talking about.

Doesn't matter what it is, dear. It's still not abuse. You are like the Jesse Jackson of abuse. It's everywhere I tell you.