Thoughts on Death

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
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I recently got into a cyber-argument on Facebook about whether gun-facilitated suicides ought to be "counted" when making the case for gun control.

It is said that every death "caused" by a firearm is part of the "problem" of excessive guns, therefore, suicides-by-gun ought to be counted.

My position is that the problem - such as it is - should only be measured with respect to the threat of gun violence to the general public. No one is "threatened" by someone else's suicide. Indeed, suicide is the ultimate act of personal freedom. To be, or not to be - It's my decision. Although it can be described as a crime against the survivors, that only follows if you presume that we all have an implicit obligation of companionship or support that trumps our right to determine whether we shall continue to exist. I don't buy it. I demand the right to off myself at such time as I consider that that option makes most sense for me (chronic pain, being the main possibility in this regard).

Moving on...

So person #1 says, "Black lives matter."

Person #2 says, "All lives matter," which pisses off Person #1 because it diminishes his point.

But I say, "Not all lives matter." Some lives matter more than others, and some lives matter not at all. Indeed, I have known many people who have died and, for one reason or another, the world was actually a better place without them in it. Sorry to say, but true.

And getting back to person #1 above, if one Black gang-banger kills another gang-banger, it is an example of the case I mentioned in the preceding paragraph. That particular Black life didn't matter (except to the victim's mother who will invariably say, "My son had just found JESUS!"), and the world could well be a better place without that now-dead gang-banger. And if the assailant is imprisoned, so much the better. It is, as they say, a "Two-fer."

It is the attitude of police in cases of one GB killing another GB that brought about the "Black Lives Matter" movement, and specifically the case of the Brown fellow in Ferguson, MO.

But really, compare the Indian medical student, slain on the eve of his graduation from medical school, versus the dope dealer killed in the course of a transaction gone bad. Are the police and the public supposed to treat these as equally "tragic" events?

Get serious. Not all lives matter, and some lives are definitely more significant than others.
 
I recently got into a cyber-argument on Facebook about whether gun-facilitated suicides ought to be "counted" when making the case for gun control.

It is said that every death "caused" by a firearm is part of the "problem" of excessive guns, therefore, suicides-by-gun ought to be counted.

My position is that the problem - such as it is - should only be measured with respect to the threat of gun violence to the general public. No one is "threatened" by someone else's suicide. Indeed, suicide is the ultimate act of personal freedom. To be, or not to be - It's my decision. Although it can be described as a crime against the survivors, that only follows if you presume that we all have an implicit obligation of companionship or support that trumps our right to determine whether we shall continue to exist. I don't buy it. I demand the right to off myself at such time as I consider that that option makes most sense for me (chronic pain, being the main possibility in this regard).

Moving on...

So person #1 says, "Black lives matter."

Person #2 says, "All lives matter," which pisses off Person #1 because it diminishes his point.

But I say, "Not all lives matter." Some lives matter more than others, and some lives matter not at all. Indeed, I have known many people who have died and, for one reason or another, the world was actually a better place without them in it. Sorry to say, but true.

And getting back to person #1 above, if one Black gang-banger kills another gang-banger, it is an example of the case I mentioned in the preceding paragraph. That particular Black life didn't matter (except to the victim's mother who will invariably say, "My son had just found JESUS!"), and the world could well be a better place without that now-dead gang-banger. And if the assailant is imprisoned, so much the better. It is, as they say, a "Two-fer."

It is the attitude of police in cases of one GB killing another GB that brought about the "Black Lives Matter" movement, and specifically the case of the Brown fellow in Ferguson, MO.

But really, compare the Indian medical student, slain on the eve of his graduation from medical school, versus the dope dealer killed in the course of a transaction gone bad. Are the police and the public supposed to treat these as equally "tragic" events?

Get serious. Not all lives matter, and some lives are definitely more significant than others.
You are measuring the gb life in terms of value to the society in general. That can be short sighted. There's a chance that everyone can turn their life around to a positive entity. The fact that a gang banger was so distraught with his life that he thought ending it all was better than continuing his present way of life. He at that point could have been a turnaround if met with the right influences.

Hence, his life could have been saved and used his life to influence others. Also, you are eliminating the fact that God has a plan for all of us and we are not permitting Him to take us on His time plan. But you seem to be the kind of individual that would ignore that thesis. That is you prerogative, of course, but it doesn't matter to everyone.

If one soul is saved by Divine intervention, it could be more valuable that that medical student who could have saved others by his skills. Anyone who saves another from a dreadful life would be valuable to the whole of society. JMO
 
I am 67 years old and have met thousands of people through jobs, military service, social activities, and family relationships. I have never seen a bad kid turn out good or a good kid turn out bad. At BEST, I've seen bad kids who learned to conceal their real personality as adults. But I haven't met everybody, so I can't extrapolate.
 
I recently got into a cyber-argument on Facebook about whether gun-facilitated suicides ought to be "counted" when making the case for gun control.

It is said that every death "caused" by a firearm is part of the "problem" of excessive guns, therefore, suicides-by-gun ought to be counted.

My position is that the problem - such as it is - should only be measured with respect to the threat of gun violence to the general public. No one is "threatened" by someone else's suicide. Indeed, suicide is the ultimate act of personal freedom. To be, or not to be - It's my decision. Although it can be described as a crime against the survivors, that only follows if you presume that we all have an implicit obligation of companionship or support that trumps our right to determine whether we shall continue to exist. I don't buy it. I demand the right to off myself at such time as I consider that that option makes most sense for me (chronic pain, being the main possibility in this regard).

Moving on...

So person #1 says, "Black lives matter."

Person #2 says, "All lives matter," which pisses off Person #1 because it diminishes his point.

But I say, "Not all lives matter." Some lives matter more than others, and some lives matter not at all. Indeed, I have known many people who have died and, for one reason or another, the world was actually a better place without them in it. Sorry to say, but true.

And getting back to person #1 above, if one Black gang-banger kills another gang-banger, it is an example of the case I mentioned in the preceding paragraph. That particular Black life didn't matter (except to the victim's mother who will invariably say, "My son had just found JESUS!"), and the world could well be a better place without that now-dead gang-banger. And if the assailant is imprisoned, so much the better. It is, as they say, a "Two-fer."

It is the attitude of police in cases of one GB killing another GB that brought about the "Black Lives Matter" movement, and specifically the case of the Brown fellow in Ferguson, MO.

But really, compare the Indian medical student, slain on the eve of his graduation from medical school, versus the dope dealer killed in the course of a transaction gone bad. Are the police and the public supposed to treat these as equally "tragic" events?

Get serious. Not all lives matter, and some lives are definitely more significant than others.

First of all, a suicidal person who has decided to end his/her life is going to do so with or without a gun, and so that aspect of the gun control issue is a non sequitur IMHO. But I also think that those who would outlaw guns will be unconvinced.

Next, all lives might not matter to you but each life might matter to it's owner as well as those who have some kind of relationship with that person. I don't think you have the right to decide for anyone else but yourself how much a life matters. No question that some lives are or were were significant to humanity, but that is open to debate for each individual. And ultimately we can only try to make our life matter to somebody in a positive way, judging anyone else's life is pretty much a waste of time.
 
From a libertarian view, each life/decision "matters" ... to that individual.
If the individual lived alone on an island, they would be free to behave as they wish. Not reality.

In a social context, an individual's liberty has to be compromised for the overall "good".
If an individual's behavior creates a "victim", then that individual's behavior needs to be compromised ... and their life may no longer fully "matter".
Capital punishment is an extreme example, but even here one can argue that the criminal's life matters to their family members or friends.
 
What does guns have to do with this ??

There are a million ways to do suicide from sticking a hose from your exhaust pipe in your car (completely painless) to drinking antifreeze (very gut wrenching but guaranteed).

Most people don't have the balls to shoot themselves anyway.
 
From a libertarian view, each life/decision "matters" ... to that individual.
If the individual lived alone on an island, they would be free to behave as they wish. Not reality.

In a social context, an individual's liberty has to be compromised for the overall "good".
If an individual's behavior creates a "victim", then that individual's behavior needs to be compromised ... and their life may no longer fully "matter".
Capital punishment is an extreme example, but even here one can argue that the criminal's life matters to their family members or friends.
Correct -- the scumbag murderer's mommy will always love her vermin offspring.
 

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