This British criminal actually wanted his victim dead..so he shot him in the head...

[2aguy]

They have always had a lower murder rate than we have.......but their gun crime rate is going up, while ours is going down, showing that gun control in Britain isn't working.....

And you added gun suicides to the total of gun deaths....in order to get the number higher, that is you lying about the issue....

Again, when they get to 30,000 deaths due to fire arms, let me know.

Again, you are using suicides to increase your numbers.....actually gun murder in democrat party controlled cities = 11,004 in 2016.

Number of times, on average Americans use their legal guns to stop crime and save lives each year.....? 1.1 million...when criminals murdering criminals reaches 1.1 million, get back to us.

Gun deaths are gun deaths. Regardless of who pulls the trigger.
When another developed nation has 30,000 I’ll care about your cherry picked fuzzy math.

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times to save lives......every single year...... get back to us when you guys decide to stop letting violent killers out of jail over and over again.

thoroughly debunked statistic

You saying it is debunked doesn't make it debunked...since the actual statistics come from the Centers for Disease Control.....then you have about another 12-13 studies on gun self defense that also show you don't know what you are talking about...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[2aguy]

murder in Britain had been low, even before they banned guns, and it didn't go down after they banned guns...which means gun control is not effecting their gun crime rate...

It is keeping the firearm homicide rate lower than a country without gun control.

Again, their criminals have lots of illegal guns.....they use those guns in their crimes..which are becoming more and more violent..they point those guns at their victims....and then, the one thing they don't do, is pull the trigger. So they have illegal guns, they are using them more often, not less, for crime, they just aren't killing their victims.....so again, how does this show that gun control is working in Britain?

 

[candycorn]

Amazingly the criminals are not purchasing hand grenades. Know why? They are regulated and not readily available. If what you think is true, they would have them in the same numbers as they do hand guns.

The supply is the cause of deaths. The behavior is secondary...but extremely important as well.

Or do you think that Americans are just more homicidal than other nationalities?

You are wrong...again.....grenades are used in France, and Sweden and in Sweden they are the weapon of choice....and even in Japan, in 2006 they were used...in Japan.....you don't know what you are talking about.

No but you go with that.

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Wrong....we have so many murders because people like you support the democrat party...a party that allows violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail, over and over again...they are the ones shooting people, not the law abiding gun owners who own and carry guns for self defense.

Last I heard Grenades were illegal in Sweden, and France...yet they are used by criminals in both countries...

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

You didn't read the story of the gangs in Sweden throwing Grenades at each other? Or the terrorists in France, on government terrorist watch lists using grenades in their attacks on the Rock concert?

Most criminals don't use grenades because they have illegal guns....grenades are simply over kill..... if gangs in Sweden can throw them at each other like they are confetti, you have no point.....

Massive Sweden Bound Haul Of Grenades And Automatic Weapons Seized - Breitbart

A Turkish citizen, a Swede and a man from Serbia have been arrested after a massive shipment of grenades and automatic weapons destined for Sweden was uncovered.


Grenade attacks linked to migrant gang warfare have become a familiar occurrence in parts of Nordic nation. There were 30 grenade explosion in Malmö in the first half of 2015, and 25 explosions in the city in 2014.



A car containing 59 hand grenades and five machine guns, along with ammunition and magazines, was intercepted at a customs check Slovenia this week.

In gun controlled Japan....grenades...

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths.
---------

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.
---------

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

 

[2aguy]

You are wrong...again.....grenades are used in France, and Sweden and in Sweden they are the weapon of choice....and even in Japan, in 2006 they were used...in Japan.....you don't know what you are talking about.

No but you go with that.

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Wrong....we have so many murders because people like you support the democrat party...a party that allows violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail, over and over again...they are the ones shooting people, not the law abiding gun owners who own and carry guns for self defense.

Last I heard Grenades were illegal in Sweden, and France...yet they are used by criminals in both countries...

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

You didn't read the story of the gangs in Sweden throwing Grenades at each other? Or the terrorists in France, on government terrorist watch lists using grenades in their attacks on the Rock concert?

Most criminals don't use grenades because they have illegal guns....grenades are simply over kill..... if gangs in Sweden can throw them at each other like they are confetti, you have no point.....

Massive Sweden Bound Haul Of Grenades And Automatic Weapons Seized - Breitbart

A Turkish citizen, a Swede and a man from Serbia have been arrested after a massive shipment of grenades and automatic weapons destined for Sweden was uncovered.


Grenade attacks linked to migrant gang warfare have become a familiar occurrence in parts of Nordic nation. There were 30 grenade explosion in Malmö in the first half of 2015, and 25 explosions in the city in 2014.



A car containing 59 hand grenades and five machine guns, along with ammunition and magazines, was intercepted at a customs check Slovenia this week.

In gun controlled Japan....grenades...

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths.
---------

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.
---------

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Most criminals don't use grenades because they have illegal guns....grenades are simply over kill..... if gangs in Sweden can throw them at each other like they are confetti, you have no point.....

Massive Sweden Bound Haul Of Grenades And Automatic Weapons Seized - Breitbart

A Turkish citizen, a Swede and a man from Serbia have been arrested after a massive shipment of grenades and automatic weapons destined for Sweden was uncovered.


Grenade attacks linked to migrant gang warfare have become a familiar occurrence in parts of Nordic nation. There were 30 grenade explosion in Malmö in the first half of 2015, and 25 explosions in the city in 2014.



A car containing 59 hand grenades and five machine guns, along with ammunition and magazines, was intercepted at a customs check Slovenia this week.

In gun controlled Japan....grenades...

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths.
---------

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.
---------

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

 

[candycorn]

Again, when they get to 30,000 deaths due to fire arms, let me know.

Again, you are using suicides to increase your numbers.....actually gun murder in democrat party controlled cities = 11,004 in 2016.

Number of times, on average Americans use their legal guns to stop crime and save lives each year.....? 1.1 million...when criminals murdering criminals reaches 1.1 million, get back to us.

Gun deaths are gun deaths. Regardless of who pulls the trigger.
When another developed nation has 30,000 I’ll care about your cherry picked fuzzy math.

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times to save lives......every single year...... get back to us when you guys decide to stop letting violent killers out of jail over and over again.

thoroughly debunked statistic

You saying it is debunked doesn't make it debunked.....

No common sense does.

This is 1.1 million people give or take...

For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

 

[candycorn]

No but you go with that.

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Wrong....we have so many murders because people like you support the democrat party...a party that allows violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail, over and over again...they are the ones shooting people, not the law abiding gun owners who own and carry guns for self defense.

Last I heard Grenades were illegal in Sweden, and France...yet they are used by criminals in both countries...

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

You didn't read the story of the gangs in Sweden throwing Grenades at each other? Or the terrorists in France, on government terrorist watch lists using grenades in their attacks on the Rock concert?

Most criminals don't use grenades because they have illegal guns....grenades are simply over kill..... if gangs in Sweden can throw them at each other like they are confetti, you have no point.....

Massive Sweden Bound Haul Of Grenades And Automatic Weapons Seized - Breitbart

A Turkish citizen, a Swede and a man from Serbia have been arrested after a massive shipment of grenades and automatic weapons destined for Sweden was uncovered.


Grenade attacks linked to migrant gang warfare have become a familiar occurrence in parts of Nordic nation. There were 30 grenade explosion in Malmö in the first half of 2015, and 25 explosions in the city in 2014.



A car containing 59 hand grenades and five machine guns, along with ammunition and magazines, was intercepted at a customs check Slovenia this week.

In gun controlled Japan....grenades...

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths.
---------

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.
---------

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Most criminals don't use grenades because they have illegal guns....grenades are simply over kill..... if gangs in Sweden can throw them at each other like they are confetti, you have no point.....

Massive Sweden Bound Haul Of Grenades And Automatic Weapons Seized - Breitbart

A Turkish citizen, a Swede and a man from Serbia have been arrested after a massive shipment of grenades and automatic weapons destined for Sweden was uncovered.


Grenade attacks linked to migrant gang warfare have become a familiar occurrence in parts of Nordic nation. There were 30 grenade explosion in Malmö in the first half of 2015, and 25 explosions in the city in 2014.



A car containing 59 hand grenades and five machine guns, along with ammunition and magazines, was intercepted at a customs check Slovenia this week.

In gun controlled Japan....grenades...

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths.
---------

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.
---------

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

 

[2aguy]

Again, you are using suicides to increase your numbers.....actually gun murder in democrat party controlled cities = 11,004 in 2016.

Number of times, on average Americans use their legal guns to stop crime and save lives each year.....? 1.1 million...when criminals murdering criminals reaches 1.1 million, get back to us.

Gun deaths are gun deaths. Regardless of who pulls the trigger.
When another developed nation has 30,000 I’ll care about your cherry picked fuzzy math.

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times to save lives......every single year...... get back to us when you guys decide to stop letting violent killers out of jail over and over again.

thoroughly debunked statistic

You saying it is debunked doesn't make it debunked.....

No common sense does.

This is 1.1 million people give or take...
View attachment 236693


For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

And yet actual research by both public and private researchers show you are wrong.....

The Centers for Disease Control says the number is that high...

The Department of Justice says the number is that high.....

those are two from about a dozen actual studies on the topic......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[2aguy]

Wrong....we have so many murders because people like you support the democrat party...a party that allows violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail, over and over again...they are the ones shooting people, not the law abiding gun owners who own and carry guns for self defense.

Last I heard Grenades were illegal in Sweden, and France...yet they are used by criminals in both countries...

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

You didn't read the story of the gangs in Sweden throwing Grenades at each other? Or the terrorists in France, on government terrorist watch lists using grenades in their attacks on the Rock concert?

Most criminals don't use grenades because they have illegal guns....grenades are simply over kill..... if gangs in Sweden can throw them at each other like they are confetti, you have no point.....

Massive Sweden Bound Haul Of Grenades And Automatic Weapons Seized - Breitbart

A Turkish citizen, a Swede and a man from Serbia have been arrested after a massive shipment of grenades and automatic weapons destined for Sweden was uncovered.


Grenade attacks linked to migrant gang warfare have become a familiar occurrence in parts of Nordic nation. There were 30 grenade explosion in Malmö in the first half of 2015, and 25 explosions in the city in 2014.



A car containing 59 hand grenades and five machine guns, along with ammunition and magazines, was intercepted at a customs check Slovenia this week.

In gun controlled Japan....grenades...

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths.
---------

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.
---------

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Most criminals don't use grenades because they have illegal guns....grenades are simply over kill..... if gangs in Sweden can throw them at each other like they are confetti, you have no point.....

Massive Sweden Bound Haul Of Grenades And Automatic Weapons Seized - Breitbart

A Turkish citizen, a Swede and a man from Serbia have been arrested after a massive shipment of grenades and automatic weapons destined for Sweden was uncovered.


Grenade attacks linked to migrant gang warfare have become a familiar occurrence in parts of Nordic nation. There were 30 grenade explosion in Malmö in the first half of 2015, and 25 explosions in the city in 2014.



A car containing 59 hand grenades and five machine guns, along with ammunition and magazines, was intercepted at a customs check Slovenia this week.

In gun controlled Japan....grenades...

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths.
---------

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.
---------

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Then you have to explain how it is that over the last 25 years, as more Americans own and carry guns, how our gun murder rate went down 49%...you know, gun deaths..........making your post silly......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

Wrong....we have so many murders because people like you support the democrat party...a party that allows violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail, over and over again...they are the ones shooting people, not the law abiding gun owners who own and carry guns for self defense.

Last I heard Grenades were illegal in Sweden, and France...yet they are used by criminals in both countries...

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

You didn't read the story of the gangs in Sweden throwing Grenades at each other? Or the terrorists in France, on government terrorist watch lists using grenades in their attacks on the Rock concert?

Most criminals don't use grenades because they have illegal guns....grenades are simply over kill..... if gangs in Sweden can throw them at each other like they are confetti, you have no point.....

Massive Sweden Bound Haul Of Grenades And Automatic Weapons Seized - Breitbart

A Turkish citizen, a Swede and a man from Serbia have been arrested after a massive shipment of grenades and automatic weapons destined for Sweden was uncovered.


Grenade attacks linked to migrant gang warfare have become a familiar occurrence in parts of Nordic nation. There were 30 grenade explosion in Malmö in the first half of 2015, and 25 explosions in the city in 2014.



A car containing 59 hand grenades and five machine guns, along with ammunition and magazines, was intercepted at a customs check Slovenia this week.

In gun controlled Japan....grenades...

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths.
---------

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.
---------

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Most criminals don't use grenades because they have illegal guns....grenades are simply over kill..... if gangs in Sweden can throw them at each other like they are confetti, you have no point.....

Massive Sweden Bound Haul Of Grenades And Automatic Weapons Seized - Breitbart

A Turkish citizen, a Swede and a man from Serbia have been arrested after a massive shipment of grenades and automatic weapons destined for Sweden was uncovered.


Grenade attacks linked to migrant gang warfare have become a familiar occurrence in parts of Nordic nation. There were 30 grenade explosion in Malmö in the first half of 2015, and 25 explosions in the city in 2014.



A car containing 59 hand grenades and five machine guns, along with ammunition and magazines, was intercepted at a customs check Slovenia this week.

In gun controlled Japan....grenades...

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths.
---------

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.
---------

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Our criminals don't use grenades...they don't need them......the criminals in Sweden and Japan seem to need them though.......

 

[candycorn]

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

You didn't read the story of the gangs in Sweden throwing Grenades at each other? Or the terrorists in France, on government terrorist watch lists using grenades in their attacks on the Rock concert?

Most criminals don't use grenades because they have illegal guns....grenades are simply over kill..... if gangs in Sweden can throw them at each other like they are confetti, you have no point.....

Massive Sweden Bound Haul Of Grenades And Automatic Weapons Seized - Breitbart

A Turkish citizen, a Swede and a man from Serbia have been arrested after a massive shipment of grenades and automatic weapons destined for Sweden was uncovered.


Grenade attacks linked to migrant gang warfare have become a familiar occurrence in parts of Nordic nation. There were 30 grenade explosion in Malmö in the first half of 2015, and 25 explosions in the city in 2014.



A car containing 59 hand grenades and five machine guns, along with ammunition and magazines, was intercepted at a customs check Slovenia this week.

In gun controlled Japan....grenades...

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths.
---------

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.
---------

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Most criminals don't use grenades because they have illegal guns....grenades are simply over kill..... if gangs in Sweden can throw them at each other like they are confetti, you have no point.....

Massive Sweden Bound Haul Of Grenades And Automatic Weapons Seized - Breitbart

A Turkish citizen, a Swede and a man from Serbia have been arrested after a massive shipment of grenades and automatic weapons destined for Sweden was uncovered.


Grenade attacks linked to migrant gang warfare have become a familiar occurrence in parts of Nordic nation. There were 30 grenade explosion in Malmö in the first half of 2015, and 25 explosions in the city in 2014.



A car containing 59 hand grenades and five machine guns, along with ammunition and magazines, was intercepted at a customs check Slovenia this week.

In gun controlled Japan....grenades...

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths.
---------

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.
---------

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Our criminals don't use grenades...they don't need them......the criminals in Sweden and Japan seem to need them though.......

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Amazingly the frequent chorus from the NRA nuts is that criminals don't obey laws. Somehow they obey the laws against grenades; either that or there is the fact that grenades are not covered by the 2nd Amendment and thus, there isn't a dispensary on every street corner making them available.

The same can and should be done with guns. We'd all be safer as statistics show over and over.

 

[candycorn]

Gun deaths are gun deaths. Regardless of who pulls the trigger.
When another developed nation has 30,000 I’ll care about your cherry picked fuzzy math.

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times to save lives......every single year...... get back to us when you guys decide to stop letting violent killers out of jail over and over again.

thoroughly debunked statistic

You saying it is debunked doesn't make it debunked.....

No common sense does.

This is 1.1 million people give or take...
View attachment 236693


For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

And yet actual research by both public and private researchers show you are wrong.....

The Centers for Disease Control says the number is that high...

The Department of Justice says the number is that high.....

those are two from about a dozen actual studies on the topic......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

This is 1.1 million people give or take...

For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

 

[2aguy]

You didn't read the story of the gangs in Sweden throwing Grenades at each other? Or the terrorists in France, on government terrorist watch lists using grenades in their attacks on the Rock concert?

Most criminals don't use grenades because they have illegal guns....grenades are simply over kill..... if gangs in Sweden can throw them at each other like they are confetti, you have no point.....

Massive Sweden Bound Haul Of Grenades And Automatic Weapons Seized - Breitbart

A Turkish citizen, a Swede and a man from Serbia have been arrested after a massive shipment of grenades and automatic weapons destined for Sweden was uncovered.


Grenade attacks linked to migrant gang warfare have become a familiar occurrence in parts of Nordic nation. There were 30 grenade explosion in Malmö in the first half of 2015, and 25 explosions in the city in 2014.



A car containing 59 hand grenades and five machine guns, along with ammunition and magazines, was intercepted at a customs check Slovenia this week.

In gun controlled Japan....grenades...

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths.
---------

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.
---------

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

The reason there are so many gun deaths here in the US is because there are so many guns. No other reason.

The reason there are virtually no grenade deaths here and around the globe is because governments (even ours) regulate them. No other reason.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Most criminals don't use grenades because they have illegal guns....grenades are simply over kill..... if gangs in Sweden can throw them at each other like they are confetti, you have no point.....

Massive Sweden Bound Haul Of Grenades And Automatic Weapons Seized - Breitbart

A Turkish citizen, a Swede and a man from Serbia have been arrested after a massive shipment of grenades and automatic weapons destined for Sweden was uncovered.


Grenade attacks linked to migrant gang warfare have become a familiar occurrence in parts of Nordic nation. There were 30 grenade explosion in Malmö in the first half of 2015, and 25 explosions in the city in 2014.



A car containing 59 hand grenades and five machine guns, along with ammunition and magazines, was intercepted at a customs check Slovenia this week.

In gun controlled Japan....grenades...

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members). It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths.
---------

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men. Things really escalated in in August 2007, when a shooter from the Seido-kai assassinated the head of the Dojin-kai.
---------

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Our criminals don't use grenades...they don't need them......the criminals in Sweden and Japan seem to need them though.......

If we treated firearms the way we treat grenades, you’d see the number of gun deaths go down. But that would hurt gun sales and lessen the already non-existent and overblown need for the NRA…so we can’t have that.

Amazingly the frequent chorus from the NRA nuts is that criminals don't obey laws. Somehow they obey the laws against grenades; either that or there is the fact that grenades are not covered by the 2nd Amendment and thus, there isn't a dispensary on every street corner making them available.

The same can and should be done with guns. We'd all be safer as statistics show over and over.

As I keep showing you, if criminals wanted grenades they would get grenades....do you think that grenades are legal in Sweden? Are they legal in Japan? Fully automatic military rifles are completely illegal in Europe, and completely illegal in France...they are the weapon of choice for French criminals and terrorists......

[URL="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/15/paris-attacks-highlight-frances-gun-control-problems"]Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

Military-grade guns are banned in France, and even people who want to own a handgun or hunting rifle have to go through strict checks on their background and mental health.

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.


===============
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.


-----------------
This is How AK-47s Get to Paris

France outlaws most gun ownership and it’s almost impossible to legally acquire a high-powered rifle such as an AK-47, so where did the weapons in the Nov. 13 terror attack—not to mention the bloody January assault by Islamic terrorists on the Paris office ofCharlie Hebdo magazine and the 2012 shootings by a militant in Toulouse—come from?



Guns soon became a major export commodity in the Balkans. Western Europe is the target market. “Many firearms trafficked in Europe come from the western Balkans after being held illegally after recent conflicts in the area,” Europol reported. In just one case from 2014, Slovakian cops intercepted a truck trying to enter the country with “a large number of grenades and firearms,”according to Europol. “The vehicle was travelling from Bosnia and Herzegovina to Sweden.”

And it’s not like the stream of weapons will end when dealers in the Balkans run out of war-vintage leftovers. “One of the reasons we see a lot of Kalashnikovs and AK-47s on the black market is because Russia has just upgraded the Kalashnikov,” Kathie Lynn Austin, an expert on arms trafficking with the Conflict Awareness Project, told Al Jazeera, “and that has created massive stockpiles of the older models.”

On March 6, 2012, French lawmakers passed a law tightening up gun regulation and increasing penalties for illegal ownership. Just five days later, Mohamed Merah—a French jihadist of Algerian descent—went on shooting rampage, killing seven people in three separate attacks in around Toulouse before a police sniper shot him dead.

Merah’s arsenal included an AK-47, an Uzi, a Sten submachine gun, a shotgun, and several pistols—all illegal. “He could only supply himself on the black market or from crime organizations, that’s clear,” Thierry Coste, a pro-gun lobbyist, told The Christian Science Monitor.

In October 2014, French police raided several homes across the country, breaking up an Internet-based smuggling ring, arresting 48 suspected traffickers, and seizing hundreds of illegal guns. Three months later on Jan. 7 this year, jihadist gunmen wielding AK-47s shot up Charlie Hebdo in Paris, killing 12 people.


----------------

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/16/frances-real-gun-problem/

Running guns to the heart of Europe: 'Need a Kalashnikov in Belgium? No problem'

But for all the new resolve of the European Union to tighten borders and close loopholes in laws that already effectively ban private ownership of rapid-fire assault weapons, Nemac, Milan and a jaded Serbian policeman doubt it can end the trade.

The Serbian police officer, who is involved in counter-trafficking operations, said investigators uncovered maybe a third of shipments at best. The problem was the sheer volume of weapons, he explained, recounting a tale of a man who told customs officers at Serbia's border with the EU that he was a musician and had nothing to declare but his old accordion.--

----

Indeed, there is some irony that Brussels, self-styled "capital" of the European Union and also home to the NATO military alliance, has become a marketplace for such hardware.

"If you have 500 to 1,000 euros you can get a military weapon within half an hour," said Bilal Benyaich, an expert on Islamist radicals at the city's Itinera Institute think-tank.
--

This story tracks gun smuggling in Europe.....lots of it....

http://time.com/3687334/arms-smuggling-europe-balkans/



But although the police quickly traced the weapons source in the Paris attacks, stopping criminals and other jihadist cells in Europe from acquiring assault weapons for further attacks might not be so easy, according to police officials.



French police believe rifles are on sale in French cities for between €1,000 and €1,500. Earlier this month, Philippe Capon, head of the French police union UNSA, told Bloomberg News, “The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms.” A French police source told TIME that the weapons from the Charlie Hebdoattack came from the Balkans.

That is not the only source of weaponry. Donald says he fears that the continent might be facing a fresh influx of weapons from North Africa in the wake of the Arab Spring revolts. In August, 2011, Libyan rebels looted large quantities of mortars, tank shells and other munitions when Moammar Gaddafi’s regime collapsed. Although most of those weapons are believed to have filtered across North and West Africa, some could also have made their way to Europe.

The arms traffickers have flourished in the absence of well-financed antiweapons units in Europe, where law enforcement has for years tended to plow money into stopping drug-dealing and other crimes. “We don’t fully understand the scale of the problem because we have not had specialized units,” says Donald, referring to law-enforcement agencies in different E.U. countries. “It is a question of priorities. Any police officer will tell you it [resources] is a constant struggle.”

The trade in illegal weapons can earn enormous profits for organized criminal gangs — enough to make the risk of capture worthwhile. Donald says recent investigations have found arms traffickers investing about €30,000 in a shipment of Balkan-era weapons, refurbishing them in their garages, then selling them for them for about 10 times the price. “That’s a huge mark-up,” he says.

As Europe struggles to crack down on illegal weapons, some police recruits face a new training exercise: Go buy a Kalashnikov rifle. Donald says that in “a city in Europe,” which he would not name, “very young officers with no training or experience” were recently told to go find an assault weapon on the streets from an illegal arms dealer. “One came back two hours later with an AK-47,” Donald says. “He bought it for €1,000.”


aanother story on ease terrorists get guns....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...b6bce2-b78b-11e4-bc30-a4e75503948a_story.html

In contrast with the free-firing United States, Europe is generally seen as a haven from serious gun violence. Here in Denmark, handguns and semiautomatic rifles are all but banned. Hunting rifles are legally available only to those with squeaky-clean backgrounds who have passed a rigorous exam covering everything from gun safety to the mating habits of Denmark’s wildlife.

“There’s a book about 1,000 pages thick,” said Tonni Rigby, one of only two licensed firearms dealers in Copenhagen. “You have to know all of it.”


But if you want an illicit assault rifle, such as the one used by a 22-year-old to rake a Copenhagen cafe with 28 bullets on Saturday, all it takes are a few connections and some cash.

“It’s very easy to get such a weapon,” said Hans Jorgen Bonnichsen, a former operations director for the Danish security service PET. “It’s not only a problem for Denmark. It’s a problem for all of Europe.”


[/URL]

 

[2aguy]

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times to save lives......every single year...... get back to us when you guys decide to stop letting violent killers out of jail over and over again.

thoroughly debunked statistic

You saying it is debunked doesn't make it debunked.....

No common sense does.

This is 1.1 million people give or take...
View attachment 236693


For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

And yet actual research by both public and private researchers show you are wrong.....

The Centers for Disease Control says the number is that high...

The Department of Justice says the number is that high.....

those are two from about a dozen actual studies on the topic......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

This is 1.1 million people give or take...

For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

It isn't me saying it cupcake...it is the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice......as well as 15 other groups of researchers........tell them they are wrong...you know, the ones who actually did the research....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*

 

[toobfreak]

This British criminal actually wanted his victim dead..so he shot him in the head...

Impossible.

You must be mistaken.

Don't you know that the Brits had their guns confiscated? They are safe now.

Oh wait. That only applies to the ones that obeyed the laws.

 

[2aguy]

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times to save lives......every single year...... get back to us when you guys decide to stop letting violent killers out of jail over and over again.

thoroughly debunked statistic

You saying it is debunked doesn't make it debunked.....

No common sense does.

This is 1.1 million people give or take...
View attachment 236693


For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

And yet actual research by both public and private researchers show you are wrong.....

The Centers for Disease Control says the number is that high...

The Department of Justice says the number is that high.....

those are two from about a dozen actual studies on the topic......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

This is 1.1 million people give or take...

For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

Tell that to obama...and his Centers for Disease Control as recently as 2013.....

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/1#ii


Defensive Use of Guns
Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a).

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a),

 

[2aguy]

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times to save lives......every single year...... get back to us when you guys decide to stop letting violent killers out of jail over and over again.

thoroughly debunked statistic

You saying it is debunked doesn't make it debunked.....

No common sense does.

This is 1.1 million people give or take...
View attachment 236693


For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

And yet actual research by both public and private researchers show you are wrong.....

The Centers for Disease Control says the number is that high...

The Department of Justice says the number is that high.....

those are two from about a dozen actual studies on the topic......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

This is 1.1 million people give or take...

For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

I know.....as a left wing, socialist....you are expecting Santa to give you coal, again, this year...........so you don't want to go to bed because when you wake up it is going to be another bummer of a Christmas....but, you brought it on yourself......be a nicer person next year and get on the "Nice" list......then you get something good, like that Gender Neutral Doll you always wanted...

 

[candycorn]

 

[2aguy]

View attachment 236698

It isn't me saying it cupcake...

it is the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice......as well as 15 other groups of researchers........tell them they are wrong...you know, the ones who actually did the research....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[candycorn]

View attachment 236698

It isn't me saying it cupcake...

it is the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice......as well as 15 other groups of researchers........tell them they are wrong...you know, the ones who actually did the research....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

ok...

 

[Vagabond63]

thoroughly debunked statistic

You saying it is debunked doesn't make it debunked.....

No common sense does.

This is 1.1 million people give or take...
View attachment 236693


For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

And yet actual research by both public and private researchers show you are wrong.....

The Centers for Disease Control says the number is that high...

The Department of Justice says the number is that high.....

those are two from about a dozen actual studies on the topic......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

This is 1.1 million people give or take...

For what you say to be true...everyone pictured above would have had to use a gun to defend themselves in the last year.

Most people don't know anyone who has used a gun to defend themselves
Most people don't know anyone who knows anyone who used a gun to defend themselves

But you keep on repeating the lie. You look like an idiot.

It isn't me saying it cupcake...it is the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice......as well as 15 other groups of researchers........tell them they are wrong...you know, the ones who actually did the research....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*

All this actually says is that no one knows how many times a gun is used in self defence. Every one of these figures are estimated extrapolations from varying samples surveyed and by the looks of it based on subjective rather than objective data. In other words total BS from 2aguy again.