"They Made Them Speak English Only at Home"

[The Irish Ram]

How stupid to try to convince someone who grew up in the environment that they are wrong. If your parents are from Italy, and speak Italian only, their child will also be able to speak Italian. It is how the children know what their parents are saying.

It is how Mr. Mahalic was able to teach his classes Russian. He parents spoke to him in Russian. He learned English in school and spoke it at home. It is how his parents learned English. What's wrong with you?

 

[Unkotare]

How stupid to try to convince someone who grew up in the environment that they are wrong. ....

You didn't say you "grew up in the environment," but that you knew people who did. Did you share a house with the people in your myth?

 

[The Irish Ram]

I most certainly DID say I grew up in that environment. My father grew up with those immigrant's children, and I with their grandchildren. Ate dinner many many times at Bubba/Bubja/Bubbie's table. Same table my Dad ate at with their kids. Immigrants came to this valley to work in the steel mills. Some of the best food on earth here. And people.
So, know it all:
Tell me about Mrs. Melilo's spaghetti, and how she learned English and how to write. Tell me about the Urich family, and Bobby Urich's mom's kapusta rolls. Who taught Utsel how to speak English? One of us knows the answer to those questions because one of grew up in that environment. And one has no idea what they are talking about.

Aunt Annie Urich became a millionaire selling cabbage rolls to the power plant nearby. I grew up with her kids. My mom grew up with her. She was one of 13 children. Their parents immigrated. They spoke no English. The kids taught them. Annie had to wash the kitchen ceiling every sat. morning before she and my mom could go out and play. Fast forward to the next generation and Bobby took his piano lesson right after me. And we always went to midnight mass and then to Aunt Aggie's for cabbage rolls. (And what pretty grand children those immigrants had!)

But you tell me, in all your wisdom, what language his studdabubba spoke...

You're not going to win this, hulye < (then spit on the floor like Bubba Crouch used to do.)

 

[Unkotare]

I most certainly DID say I grew up in that environment. ....

The family adopted you? You lived with them 24/7? Let the myth go.

 

[Unkotare]

...the ones whose parents had them speak English when they got here......

They didn't. That's a myth. The process of language acquisition and generational family dynamic throughout assimilation is essentially the same today as it has always been.

.

 

[Unkotare]

They sure as hell did. .....

Nope. Some few anomalous cases aside, the fairy tale of "you shall not speak Italian in this house!" from parents who spoke only Italian themselves (for example) did not - of course - happen. The inevitable success of the children or second generation in acquiring English became, over time, part of a family myth clung to by generations far removed. Young children who came here/come here eventually and inevitably learned English. The parents, depending on their age, circumstances, and prior education will eventually acquire English to an extent, but not often full fluency. If the family arrives with grandparents, they usually say "screw it" and rely on their grandchildren for interpretation. By a second generation, fluency is almost always achieved (then as now), and by the third most speak English only at home as a matter of course.

.

 

[Unkotare]

Not only is "Thou shalt speak English only at home, even though we don't speak English ourselves!" a myth, research has proven that attempts at transitioning from the home language to English-only before the child has achieved significant acquisition of the L1 actually hinders the child's acquisition of English, hampering them throughout their education.

It's all much ado about nothing anyway, as the much more common concern for immigrant parents is that their (eventual) teenagers don't want to talk to them at home in the family's heritage language. Now as then.

.

 

[Unkotare]

In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts.

Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?

.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You know you've lost and are just flailing now, so give it up. You don't know your ass from page 8 about immigrants, and I was raised with them, so......

 

[Two Thumbs]

In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts.

Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?

my Great Grandfather did it for his kids.

he, his wife and the oldest 3 didn't speak English, so to adapt, he insisted that everyone learn and speak it.

My Dad never heard any of them speak anything else.

 

[Unkotare]

..... I was raised with them, so......

So you were adopted by them? You did live with them 24/7? You haven't answered clearly.

 

[Unkotare]

In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts.

Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?

my Great Grandfather did it for his kids.

he, his wife and the oldest 3 didn't speak English, so to adapt, he insisted that everyone learn and speak it.

....

Read the OP and thread title carefully.

 

[bodecea]

...the ones whose parents had them speak English when they got here......

They didn't. That's a myth. The process of language acquisition and generational family dynamic throughout assimilation is essentially the same today as it has always been.

Agreed...adult immigrants speaking homeland language...little English...2nd gen kids speak English at school and in the street...but aren't really fluent in either language...3rd Gen English only...may not be able to communicate well with grandparents.

 

[Unkotare]

... You don't know your ass from page 8 about immigrants.........

It's not your fault that you don't know how ridiculous what you just posted is.

 

[Unkotare]

...2nd gen kids speak English at school and in the street...but aren't really fluent in either language........

2nd generation usually refers to the children born in the US of 1st generation immigrant parents. In that case, the kids will become fluent in English. If the children were born abroad, they will likely be fluent in the family heritage and achieve a high degree of English acquisition (depending on circumstances).

 

[MaryL]

Yeah, Germans.

In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts.

Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?

Funny, English is a Germanic language. That being said, 40 years ago I never heard ANY foreign language, ever. It's funny, now its SPANISH this, SPANISH that. Like it always was there. It wasn't. When people that speak Spanish now, it is more like form of disrespect. They where never part of American culture. And the fact we ALL are posting in English, that says it all.

 

[Unkotare]

When people that speak Spanish now, it is more like form of disrespect. .......

Here we go again with the ridiculous bullshit....

 

[MaryL]

When people that speak Spanish now, it is more like form of disrespect. .......

Here we go again with the ridiculous bullshit....

No we aren't

 

[MaryL]

Que?

 

[Unkotare]

..... Like it always was there. It wasn't. ......

When people that speak Spanish now, it is more like form of disrespect. .......

Here we go again with the ridiculous bullshit....

No we aren't

Very much so. There have been many languages spoken in the US for our entire history, and before.

Ridiculous is imagining some fantasy past where no one in the US spoke Spanish just because some dizzy broad hates Mexican people.

Disrespect is thinking its anybody's fucking business what language people are speaking when not speaking to you, or what language they speak in their own home, or how private businesses choose to cater to their customers, etc.