These Russian money transfers were literally earmarked 'to finance election campaign of 2016'

[jknowgood]

Yes!!!! I was really influenced by those Afghanistan ads.

Did you see them too?

You might not be, but some people are. That's the point.

So you are against voters having access to information before they go to vote?

Not at all. I'm against voters having access to "information" that isn't true or comes through foreign governments.

So you would have censored all of Hillary's ads?

The only ads I saw by foreign entities on American media were made by organizations supporting illegal aliens.
I don't see anyone complaining about that.

What great plan do you have that would suppress a person in a foreign country from posting on the internet?

And how would you suppress voters in this country from accessing posts from outside the country?

To be honest, if I were able to control this, I'd change the whole thing to A) include more political parties by B) having proportional representation so people can vote positively and not negatively and I'd limit campaign spending to a certain figure that isn't too high. I'm currently reading a John Grisham book about this very thing, yes, it's fiction, but based on fact.

Basically a large company wants to put in place a right wing judge and the cost of the election spirals for everyone and most of the stuff being targeted at people just isn't true, or half truths etc.

People should be presented with facts and in a manner that is fair, so that people's views and opinions are the thing that is noticed, and not the fake nonsense.

Trump won, get over it.

 

[Defiant1]

So you are against voters having access to information before they go to vote?

Not at all. I'm against voters having access to "information" that isn't true or comes through foreign governments.

So you would have censored all of Hillary's ads?

The only ads I saw by foreign entities on American media were made by organizations supporting illegal aliens.
I don't see anyone complaining about that.

What great plan do you have that would suppress a person in a foreign country from posting on the internet?

And how would you suppress voters in this country from accessing posts from outside the country?

To be honest, if I were able to control this, I'd change the whole thing to A) include more political parties by B) having proportional representation so people can vote positively and not negatively and I'd limit campaign spending to a certain figure that isn't too high. I'm currently reading a John Grisham book about this very thing, yes, it's fiction, but based on fact.

Basically a large company wants to put in place a right wing judge and the cost of the election spirals for everyone and most of the stuff being targeted at people just isn't true, or half truths etc.

People should be presented with facts and in a manner that is fair, so that people's views and opinions are the thing that is noticed, and not the fake nonsense.

What you want isn't American. It isn't freedom.

Do you seriously believe Congress could pass a bill limiting how much a person/candidate can spend of his own money?

Didn't Trump just prove that it isn't just money you need to win?

There is no law now limiting the number of parties, but you would force people to be in a certain party based on "proportions."

Parties are private organizations, no one is forced to be a member of any party. It's a personal, private choice, voters make about their bodies and you want to take it away.

Ah, freedom to buy people, freedom to be bought.

I'm sorry, but I don't see politicians taking a shit load of money from big business to represent big business instead of the people they were elected to represent as freedom. I'm sorry you do.

Yes, I believe, if Congress weren't a partisan cesspool of evil, that it could limit the amount of money spent.

Let's have a look at some figures to show how fucking crazy the USA is.

Party finance in Germany - Wikipedia

The CDU, the "winning" party in the German Federal elections in September spent about 200 million Euros in an election year. That's about $236 million. This include money for staff wages, everything, basically the campaigning would cost about $100 million for the whole country for the major parties in German for an election year.

Key Senate race now the most expensive ever as outside money pours in

"Candidate committees and independent groups have spent more than $113 million on the Senate race in the key state of Pennsylvania,"

So, about the same amount of money was spent by the major party in Germany, as the two main candidates in ONE SENATE RACE in the USA.

Come on, why is so much money being spent?

In the US they had to report the money that was coming in, and report what was spent. The rich didn't like this, so they made super PACs, basically a way of funneling money into the system so that bribery looks like legitimate campaign financing.

There are ways of limiting campaign financing, for example banning TV ads. Giving each candidate TV time to make their points.

Things can be done, but when the Supreme Court basically opened up campaign financing to the rich and wealthy, it's all gone shit up the wall in the US.

No, there's no law limiting the number of political parties in the US. I didn't say there was. There is, however, law that DOES LIMIT political parties.

Again, back to Germany.

Germany votes FPTP like the US does, AND it also votes PR on the same day for the same political parties.

FPTP is negative voting. People will often vote for someone to stop someone else getting in power. It benefits the major parties basically.

To prove this. German federal election, 2017 - Wikipedia

The CDU/CSU gained 37.2% of the votes in FPTP. They gained 231 seats out of 299 seats. Yeah, they only had 37.2% of the vote but gained 77% of the seats.

It's not a fair system.

The SPD, the other main party gained 24.6% of the vote and 59 seats.

Now, in PR where there's positive voting the CDU/CSU gained 33% of the vote. So, 4.2% of people in German who voted decided to vote for the CDU under negative voting, but then decided to switch their vote to a smaller party for positive voting.

The SPD gained 20.5% and saw 4.1% of people go and vote for smaller parties. That's 8.3% of people (down from about 10% the previous election) decided to switch their votes. That's more than 4 million people who decided they needed to vote negatively in one race, and positively in another.

The FDP gained zero seats in the FPTP, though they had 3.2 million people vote for them. However they gained 80 seats with PR because 5 million people voted for them.

Do you see the problems here.

In the US the FDP would not be a viable party because they couldn't get any seats because they don't have enough support within a localized area. But nationwide they had 10.7% support. So you can imagine in the US that 10.7% of people are effectively disenfranchised because their party can't gain enough votes in a single area to get them into parliament. So people don't vote for them. They vote Republican or Democrat depending on who they DON'T want to get in.

The system has this massive impact on how people vote.

I'm not talking contributions, I'm talking about a person financing their own campaign.

BTW, businesses can't contribute to federal campaigns

 

[The Derp]

...and that's how Putin made me flip my vote

No, Putin did that by having his trolls pose as Conservatives on social media and bombard you with propaganda and lies that you ate up because you're a gullible dupe.

 

[Defiant1]

...and that's how Putin made me flip my vote

No, Putin did that by having his trolls pose as Conservatives on social media and bombard you with propaganda and lies that you ate up because you're a gullible dupe.

Can you give examples of these "lies" that made us change our vote?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

...and that's how Putin made me flip my vote

No, Putin did that by having his trolls pose as Conservatives on social media and bombard you with propaganda and lies that you ate up because you're a gullible dupe.

So, tell us your story. How did these Russian "trolls pose as Conservatives on social media and bombard you with propaganda and lies" make you vote for Trump

 

[The Derp]

Can you give examples of these "lies" that made us change our vote?

You're asking if propaganda works? Yeah, it does. Clearly it works because Conservatives believed Hillary Clinton was running a child sex trafficking cannibalistic ring out of a DC pizza shop. That's the proof propaganda influences Conservatives.

 

[The Derp]

So, tell us your story. How did these Russian "trolls pose as Conservatives on social media and bombard you with propaganda and lies" make you vote for Trump

So like on these boards they create fake accounts, pose as Americans, then disseminate propaganda across social media. Russian propaganda reached at least 125,000,000 Americans on Facebook alone. And because you people are so gullible, you lapped it up and spread it yourselves.

 

[The Derp]

So, tell us your story. How did these Russian "trolls pose as Conservatives on social media and bombard you with propaganda and lies" make you vote for Trump

Here's how they did it.

Columbia University's Albright said even if only a fraction of the accounts' posts called for physical violence, the overall messaging sought to push audiences toward more radical viewpoints that they would act on.

"These posts contained psychological calls to action toward both online and physical behavior," he said.​

 

[Defiant1]

So, tell us your story. How did these Russian "trolls pose as Conservatives on social media and bombard you with propaganda and lies" make you vote for Trump

So like on these boards they create fake accounts, pose as Americans, then disseminate propaganda across social media. Russian propaganda reached at least 125,000,000 Americans on Facebook alone. And because you people are so gullible, you lapped it up and spread it yourselves.

Wow, talk about gullible.

Your mouth has to be sore from the amount of hooks that have snagged you.

 

[Defiant1]

So, tell us your story. How did these Russian "trolls pose as Conservatives on social media and bombard you with propaganda and lies" make you vote for Trump

So like on these boards they create fake accounts, pose as Americans, then disseminate propaganda across social media. Russian propaganda reached at least 125,000,000 Americans on Facebook alone. And because you people are so gullible, you lapped it up and spread it yourselves.

I

Can you give examples of these "lies" that made us change our vote?

You're asking if propaganda works? Yeah, it does. Clearly it works because Conservatives believed Hillary Clinton was running a child sex trafficking cannibalistic ring out of a DC pizza shop. That's the proof propaganda influences Conservatives.

Nobody believes Hillary was running it...

 

[EvilCat Breath]

...and that's how Putin made me flip my vote

It's not about making people flip their vote. Many people are undecided, and they're influenced massively by advertising.

We know this because some of the biggest companies in the world, especially ones like McDonalds, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, KFC etc, use advertising extremely effectively and convince people to buy their stuff. Politics isn't much different.

Good point. Who spent the most on advertising?

 

[The Derp]

Nobody believes Hillary was running it...

You all did. In fact, one of your keyboard warrior friends went with a loaded gun into that Pizza shop becuase he believed the lies and propaganda you were spreading on social media.

The Pizzagate thing is just one of many examples of Conservative propaganda infecting the brains of the weak-willed.

 

[The Derp]

Good point. Who spent the most on advertising?

Spending the most doesn't translate to winning, nor does it mean anything. What matters is what that advertising entailed. For Conservatives, Russia spent hundreds of thousands of dollars buying ad space on social media to flood with propaganda. And propaganda works. Look how many of you morons believed that Hillary Clinton was operating a child sex trafficking/cannibal ring out of a DC pizza shop. So convinced of this were Conservative fools, that one of them loaded up a gun and terrorized the pizza place.

You people just fuckin' suck...and the best way to marginalize you is to turn out the vote so your influence can be washed away in a sea of ballots.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

...and that's how Putin made me flip my vote

It's not about making people flip their vote. Many people are undecided, and they're influenced massively by advertising.

We know this because some of the biggest companies in the world, especially ones like McDonalds, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, KFC etc, use advertising extremely effectively and convince people to buy their stuff. Politics isn't much different.

Yes!!!! I was really influenced by those Afghanistan ads.

Did you see them too?

Of course, despite your little act, information campaigns DO influence votes, which is why they are undertaken.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

...and that's how Putin made me flip my vote

No, Putin did that by having his trolls pose as Conservatives on social media and bombard you with propaganda and lies that you ate up because you're a gullible dupe.

So, tell us your story. How did these Russian "trolls pose as Conservatives on social media and bombard you with propaganda and lies" make you vote for Trump

See, her's the thing, frank. You are the equivalent of a retarded baby ferret, intellectually, compared to these Russian masters of propaganda. And while your vote may not have been changed, they certainly have accomplished the goal of making people like you double down on any moronic thing you say. Which does have lasting effect.

And they, no doubt, DID influence vote totals. That's why they undertake these information campaigns.

 

[Defiant1]

Nobody believes Hillary was running it...

You all did. In fact, one of your keyboard warrior friends went with a loaded gun into that Pizza shop becuase he believed the lies and propaganda you were spreading on social media.

The Pizzagate thing is just one of many examples of Conservative propaganda infecting the brains of the weak-willed.

That wasn't the Russians.

Do you have examples of Russian propaganda supporting Trump?

And it's still not proven there isn't a sex trafficking ring run by the Clintons it just wasn't in the pizza shop.

One doesn't need to stretch to believe Bill is involved in sex trafficking.

 

[Defiant1]

...and that's how Putin made me flip my vote

It's not about making people flip their vote. Many people are undecided, and they're influenced massively by advertising.

We know this because some of the biggest companies in the world, especially ones like McDonalds, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, KFC etc, use advertising extremely effectively and convince people to buy their stuff. Politics isn't much different.

Yes!!!! I was really influenced by those Afghanistan ads.

Did you see them too?

Of course, despite your little act, information campaigns DO influence votes, which is why they are undertaken.

Isn't that what campaigns are supposed to do? Influence voting?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

...and that's how Putin made me flip my vote

It's not about making people flip their vote. Many people are undecided, and they're influenced massively by advertising.

We know this because some of the biggest companies in the world, especially ones like McDonalds, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, KFC etc, use advertising extremely effectively and convince people to buy their stuff. Politics isn't much different.

Yes!!!! I was really influenced by those Afghanistan ads.

Did you see them too?

Of course, despite your little act, information campaigns DO influence votes, which is why they are undertaken.

Isn't that what campaigns are supposed to do? Influence voting?

Yes, of course. But we recognize the difference between domestic and foreign influence.


Just a minute ago you were trying to act as if those things do not influence votes. It seems you had a very quick change of heart!

 

[The Derp]

That wasn't the Russians.

Maybe. But it's an example of propaganda working.

Do you have examples of Russian propaganda supporting Trump?

Yes. Here are a small handful (there are approximately over 1,000) Facebook ads bought by Russia, some of which Conservatives on these boards were posting. Some of which I've seen over and over on my Facebook feed, as well as in other forums like Debate Politics. And twitter, of course.

And it's still not proven there isn't a sex trafficking ring run by the Clintons it just wasn't in the pizza shop.

LOL! See what I mean about propaganda working? You are so far gone that you have to believe something even if it's completely untrue and fabricated. All you've done with this post is prove you are susceptible to propaganda. All I had to do was make the suggestion and it took hold in your small mind. You're not a very strong-willed person. You're kind of a weakling, actually.

 

[The Derp]

Just a minute ago you were trying to act as if those things do not influence votes. It seems you had a very quick change of heart!

It's those blanket and reflexive denials that are going to do Conservatives in, ultimately. Their first instinct is to deny everything, even when it's an obvious truth.

Moore intially denied any contact with high school girls, calling it all "fake".

Then he went on Hannity and admitted he did have contact with high school girls.

So because of that, it makes it impossible to accept that his denial of abuse is honest too. Why? Because he denied having contact with the girls at first, then reversed himself on that after.

Conservatives do it all the time...they deny something that's an obvious truth, then try to pretend to be a victim of their own reflexive, reactionary insecurity. Like Trump denying anyone in his campaign had "any contact with Russia"...that's demonstrably untrue, yet he made the denial anyway. So because he denied an obvious truth, it casts doubt on all the denials that are subsequent to that.