There is no Morality

[Intense]

Lies, you obviously do not read the Bible.

Lets start with Jeremiah Chapter 23.

23:9 Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness.

23:10 For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.

23:11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.

23:12 Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.

23:13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.

23:14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

23:15 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.

23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

23:17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

23:18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?

23:19 Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.

23:20 The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.

23:21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

23:22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.

23:23 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?

23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

23:25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.

23:26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

23:27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.

23:28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.

23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

23:30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.

23:31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.

23:32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.




The Holy Bible

Those passages are obviously referring to false prophets and the prophets of the Phoenician god Baal, he is not speaking against His prohets that preach the truth and preach His Words.

Obviously.

 

[Intense]

Lies, you obviously do not read the Bible.

Charlie, I am a Being, Created and Purposed by God, just as You. I am a Christian, I was raised in Christ and Accept Him. What I am Not is a Fundamentalist, I choose Conscience before anything of the Material World. My main criticism when it comes to hurling stones, is one loses track of the Goal or Prize. The tone of a message is critical to how it is received, best to weigh that against what one claims to attend to. Old Testament and New Testament, Reconciliation is the Theme. You might want to pray on Jonah and Nineveh some???

The Holy Bible

The Bass is simply being truthful just like Christ was and even Christ Himself was very blunt at times, there are certain situations where the truth comes out in ways people are not going to like and some will feel offended, thats just the way its going to be. God does not accept sinful behavior as ok and the Bass will rather follow that example than man's example.

I follow You. Just consider that in some cases, Too many Words defeat the Purpose. We All are capable of reaching People in this World, that Others can't, for what ever reason. 1 Kings Chapter 8 hits on something similar to The Sermon on The Mountain. So does Ezekiel Chapter 18.

 

[amrchaos]

Sadly they still do.

But perhaps I should clarify my point.



My point is that morality isn't dependent on a god belief or religion.

Some societies worshipped gods which demanded human sacrifice. How did they know that? The priestly caste told them so.

Humans aren't built with a sense of morality. We were able to work out what was good for us and what was bad for us though. We did that without religion or god belief.

"Working out what was good for us and what was bad for us" is called morality. Societies are formed on common beliefs, and the vast majority of societies has been formed based on a common religious belief. Name one that wasn't.

Hang on. Apparently we agree that morality is "working out what was good forus and what was bad for us". I'll just put that aside for a moment because I'm not going to claim that there is an agreement until it's acknowledged.

"Societies are formed on common beliefs."

Are they? Or do common beliefs follow the gathering that becomes a society? And could it be the case that societies are actually formed out of a need for humans to cooperate with one another to respond to the biological imperative?

If "the vast majority of societies has been formed based on a common religious belief" then that assumes that the religious belief existed prior to the society existing. How could that be?

Careful--it could mean common beliefs shared by individuals in that society, not trans-societal beliefs that are shared.

Like was said earlier--SOME religions used to require human sacrifices.

SOME religions used to keep temple prostitutes.

SOME religions stoned people for what was considered major infractions by its members.

But not all religions did the same thing. Nor is there one religion that established all the cultures and societies that exist today.

 

[KittenKoder]

A loving one.

Thats not a loving God you idiot. using your logic, a judge who lets murderers and rapists off without punishing them is a loving judge.

Dude.....you're giving Christians a bad name.

I think you could come up with something better to defend morality then name-calling.

Don't worry, most of us non-christians are smart enough to know he isn't the only flavor that exists.

 

[Diuretic]

I didn't have to be taught not to show prejudice, nor did I have to be taught that making a woman or a child cry in pain is not music to my ears.

Prejudice is a natural instinct in humans. We can never overcome it, we can minimise its effects through education and law.

This reminds me of the remarks by David Foster Wallace that midcan linked to a little while ago, about the two young fish and the older fish. The two young fish are swimming along happily and the older fish greets them, "Morning boys, how's the water?" And the two younger fish look at each other with, "what's water?"

We're like those young fish. We grow up in a moral climate, we breathe it in like we breathe air.

Interesting theory, but would you care to offer some supporting evidence?

About prejudice being natural? Test the water here.

 

[Diuretic]

Conclusions, like antique beds, should not be jumped upon. And you just turned the whole antique store into a trampoline.

Nice metaphor!

So, where did I go wrong?

What part of "your entire post consisted of jumping to conclusions" was confusing to you? Where did you go wrong? Pretty much every word you uttered, and all the premises they were based on.

Can you be a bit more specific?

 

[JW Frogen]

Poor Job got the worst of all worlds, he herd vocies in his head and they were all telling him to bet against himself.

Sort of like John Kerry.

 

[Diuretic]

Poor Job got the worst of all worlds, he herd vocies in his head and they were all telling him to bet against himself.

Sort of like John Kerry.

Without the money.

 

[mudwhistle]

Thats not a loving God you idiot. using your logic, a judge who lets murderers and rapists off without punishing them is a loving judge.

Dude.....you're giving Christians a bad name.

I think you could come up with something better to defend morality then name-calling.

Don't worry, most of us non-christians are smart enough to know he isn't the only flavor that exists.

He seems to me to be an atheist that's trying to act like a jerk while claiming to be a Christian. No real Christian talks like that.

However I'm sure there are plenty of irrational people out there willing to think the worst.

 

[editec]

Take God out the picture, take religion out the picture.

Are all humans built with a sense of morality?

If so, give examples. If so, prove it.

Or is that just faith based as well...

No humans do not have a built in sense of morality.

We do have, however, instincts.

One of those instinct drives us to want to be social animals.

Our so-called morals are rules for being part of that society.

You've probably noticed that our "morality" is also useful for helping people work and live together, yes?

That's not a coincidence, ya know.

And naturally, since different societies face slightly different social needs, each ends up creating somewhat different moral codes to accomodate their different needs.

How would you explain honor killings under that paradigm ?

How would you explain stonings hanging, burning witches, shunning, or crucifictions, or shock and awe satuaration bombings?

We're a flawed species torn between our need to be a part of society ad our need to dominate that society.

God has nothing to do with it good or bad.

These are OUR choices, so don't be blaming God for it.

 

[Intense]

Dude.....you're giving Christians a bad name.

I think you could come up with something better to defend morality then name-calling.

Don't worry, most of us non-christians are smart enough to know he isn't the only flavor that exists.

He seems to me to be an atheist that's trying to act like a jerk while claiming to be a Christian. No real Christian talks like that.

However I'm sure there are plenty of irrational people out there willing to think the worst.

In fairness to Charlie, this isn't His Ideal audience, on the Topic, and it frustrates Him, and it shows. We all have buttons to push, and that goes both ways.

 

[Intense]

No humans do not have a built in sense of morality.

We do have, however, instincts.

One of those instinct drives us to want to be social animals.

Our so-called morals are rules for being part of that society.

You've probably noticed that our "morality" is also useful for helping people work and live together, yes?

That's not a coincidence, ya know.

And naturally, since different societies face slightly different social needs, each ends up creating somewhat different moral codes to accomodate their different needs.

How would you explain honor killings under that paradigm ?

How would you explain stonings hanging, burning witches, shunning, or crucifictions, or shock and awe satuaration bombings?

We're a flawed species torn between our need to be a part of society ad our need to dominate that society.

God has nothing to do with it good or bad.

These are OUR choices, so don't be blaming God for it.

Interesting take, I follow most of it.
I stopped blaming God long ago for what We inflict on Each Other with Free Will. Within Our Limited Abilities We do have a Free Hand. Our abilities are however limited, and I thank God confined to Earth. How do you explain firing missiles at the moon is beyond me.

Which brings Us to Cause and Effect, Consequence, where God does play a Role.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Dude.....you're giving Christians a bad name.

I think you could come up with something better to defend morality then name-calling.

Don't worry, most of us non-christians are smart enough to know he isn't the only flavor that exists.

He seems to me to be an atheist that's trying to act like a jerk while claiming to be a Christian. No real Christian talks like that.

However I'm sure there are plenty of irrational people out there willing to think the worst.

No, The Bass is not an atheist pretending to be Christian, you're getting the real deal and what do you expect a God fearing Christian to be like? God fearing Christians would never accept sinful acts as ok and will always speak God's Words, our duty is to glorify God by doing His will, not to accommodate feelings of the sinful and wicked.

 

[bodecea]

Take God out the picture, take religion out the picture.

Are all humans built with a sense of morality?

If so, give examples. If so, prove it.

Or is that just faith based as well...

Golden Rule....it's really that simple.

 

[amrchaos]

were trained by what we see in our home as we grow. that's why atheism keeps spreading they don't want their children exposed the bible. now look at the school children with all the shootings, raping, beatings, just to have a laugh but morality doesn't affect us. yeah right

Actually--Atheists do not want a religion forced onto them or their kids. At least normal Atheists.

Just remember, the reason why Religion was taking out of the school is because of a school districts desire to indoctrinate the student body with the Bible through the use of force. Not because "Atheists want morality out of the schools".

In fact, there are atheists that are actually pushing for the religious education in public schools--only with the caveat of teaching the history of the religions. So far--no christian wish to take up this call.

 

[xÞx]

Take God out the picture, take religion out the picture.

Are all humans built with a sense of morality?

If so, give examples. If so, prove it.

Or is that just faith based as well...

I wonder if anyone has ever addressed this before... on this forum

Where would our laws come from?

 

[xÞx]

What is this thing, you sober people call..............morality?

Thou shalt not deprive a frog of his beer
First Book of Þ​

 

[xÞx]

I think we all inherited a conscience from adam and eve....

ignoring the fact that genetic E&A lived @ different times, does this mean you acknowledge the moral instinct and evolutionary psychology?

 

[xÞx]

Take God out the picture, take religion out the picture.

Are all humans built with a sense of morality?

If so, give examples. If so, prove it.

Or is that just faith based as well...

Isn't that supposed to be what separates us from animals?

I thought it was circumcision?

 

[xÞx]

If you take God out of the picture, meaning that He does not exist, there would be no natural, built-in morality within man..

Let me google that for you