There is no Morality

And heaven is not a place where the sinful and heathen can enter, otherwise it would just be another hell, thats why God has a Word and will for people to follow and will reward those who follow it, those who go against it will get a reward, but not the reward of eternal life in heaven.




Yes God will allow anyone into heaven who repents, confesses Christ, gets baptized and stays away from a life of sin, the judgement of who gets into heaven is not a judgement of man, but God's, period and there are examples of people in the Bible who have murdered and persecuted others who were given grace by God because they turned away from that life. You retard opinion about what a loving god would do doesn't reflect the ways of the Loving God that is spoken of in the Bible.

Sorry, would rather spend an eternity in hell with the good people who refuse to be sheep than an eternity in heaven with seriously fucked up assholes like Adolf and you. ;)

*IF* Adolf Hitler repented and went to heaven who do you really think would be the butthole? Good people who follow God's will are not going to end up in hell, hell is going to be a place full of sick unrepentant degenerates, pedophiles, faggots, murderers, robbers, rapists, liars, thieves, etc, if you would rather be in hell with people then go right on ahead.

So you think that the only people who are "good" people are those with your religious views? Or that somehow "repenting" magically makes you a good person? Such simple minds should not be allowed to vote. ;)
 
Sorry, would rather spend an eternity in hell with the good people who refuse to be sheep than an eternity in heaven with seriously fucked up assholes like Adolf and you. ;)

*IF* Adolf Hitler repented and went to heaven who do you really think would be the butthole? Good people who follow God's will are not going to end up in hell, hell is going to be a place full of sick unrepentant degenerates, pedophiles, faggots, murderers, robbers, rapists, liars, thieves, etc, if you would rather be in hell with people then go right on ahead.

So you think that the only people who are "good" people are those with your religious views? Or that somehow "repenting" magically makes you a good person? Such simple minds should not be allowed to vote. ;)

Kitten, shut up with your damn strawman arguments, everything was laid down in those posts of the Bass' plain and simple for even the most rudimentary mind and you still manage to distort and screw it up.
 
*IF* Adolf Hitler repented and went to heaven who do you really think would be the butthole? Good people who follow God's will are not going to end up in hell, hell is going to be a place full of sick unrepentant degenerates, pedophiles, faggots, murderers, robbers, rapists, liars, thieves, etc, if you would rather be in hell with people then go right on ahead.

So you think that the only people who are "good" people are those with your religious views? Or that somehow "repenting" magically makes you a good person? Such simple minds should not be allowed to vote. ;)

Kitten, shut up with your damn strawman arguments, everything was laid down in those posts of the Bass' plain and simple for even the most rudimentary mind and you still manage to distort and screw it up.

No, I'm stating the obvious ... which you are avoiding. Your mind is simple, too simple, to you it's all "black and white" and no room for the colors of life, not to mention the fact that there are a lot of great people who do not follow the christian belief, a lot of great people who are gay, almost all pagans are good people (most are extreme pacifists who would die before raising a hand), some good Muslims, a lot of good people who are practicing Jews, etc. and you are essentially saying that all these great people will be punished just for not believing in what you do in spite of being the best people on Earth, so ... if they don't follow your belief why should they not just ... well ... be completely vile and evil like the gay beaters, wife beaters, child rapists, murderers, who follow your beliefs?
 
God is a loving God, but what kind of a God would he be to love the sinful behaviors of people and let people into heaven who have no intention of repenting?

A loving one.

Thats not a loving God you idiot. using your logic, a judge who lets murderers and rapists off without punishing them is a loving judge.

Dude.....you're giving Christians a bad name.:slap:

I think you could come up with something better to defend morality then name-calling.:ahole-1:
 
True. It's interesting to see how various religions moved away from human sacrifice. I remember reading somewhere that the Hebraic story of Abraham and Isaac was a pointer to just that, that human sacrifice was no longer necessary. I don't know of any contemporary religions that require human sacrifice. I would think that would be illegal in most states.

But the point still stands that religion used to require human sacrifice in some religions. So in that religion, in that culture, in that society, human sacrifice was seen as being moral. Religion has a strong influence on us as humans, any act can be deemed moral if those in powerful religious positions say it is.

What happens to the general account of History when possible Schizophrenia is added into the equation?

I would think we can all stop reading the texts and simply listen to the voices in our heads in that case.

LOL, I was referring to the Potential Schizophrenia to a few of the Major Players in the Old Testament, not the Voices in Your or My head. What if the Voice talking to Abraham wasn't God? Had a Voice told me to sacrifice My Son, I would not be Questioning God, but My Own Sanity. Get it? Good! Scripture does teach Conscience. Sometimes the truth is written between the lines. Just a Thought.
Let's distinguish between an Outside Source leading Left or Right, and an Outside Source saying Search Deeper? One implies action, which has consequence, Good, Bad, or Mixed, The Other leads to Greater Understanding, before Action. One makes the decision for You, One leaves the Decision to You.
 
When I was in Bosnia I discovered there was no morality writ large, Muslims killed Serbs, Serbs killed Muslims, Catholic Croats killed both, and received like in return. It was a free for all, a Hobbsian hell.

There was no morality. Morality vanished.

And yet we tried to help everyone, and I met people from all three groups who wanted to help, and so I learned that morality, such as it is, is a personal voyage, with no book or paticular religious God to help you on the way.

Crowds do not know it's complexity.

You learn it as you go.

One on one.

Or, not.

I so relate to most of what you are saying.
 
So many have opinions on what God is and What God Isn't. Bottom line is that when the Time is Right, the Matter will be Beyond Question. Are We to argue the Boundaries of Heaven and Hell, as if Any of us have the Right to, or some Preordained Knowledge? Is there Growth in that? Virtue, Ability, Desire to Be One's Higher Self, is about making Choices, making a Difference. Be Fruitful, Multiply, Replenish the Earth, Witness, and Testify Faithfully about What You Witness, according to Purpose. Love God above All Else, Love Each Other As Ourselves. Try not to put words into God's mouth. Try not to throw stones. Leave no wake, no speeding in the canals. :):):)
 
So many have opinions on what God is and What God Isn't. Bottom line is that when the Time is Right, the Matter will be Beyond Question. Are We to argue the Boundaries of Heaven and Hell, as if Any of us have the Right to, or some Preordained Knowledge? Is there Growth in that? Virtue, Ability, Desire to Be One's Higher Self, is about making Choices, making a Difference. Be Fruitful, Multiply, Replenish the Earth, Witness, and Testify Faithfully about What You Witness, according to Purpose. Love God above All Else, Love Each Other As Ourselves. Try not to put words into God's mouth. Try not to throw stones. Leave no wake, no speeding in the canals. :):):)

This is typical of the same stupid straw arguments that people use to try to silence religious people, those of us who are called by Christ's name and follow the Word of the father do exactly just that, follow the Word of God, we do *NOT* put words in God's mouth and speak our opinion, we speak exactly what the Bible says.
 
So many have opinions on what God is and What God Isn't. Bottom line is that when the Time is Right, the Matter will be Beyond Question. Are We to argue the Boundaries of Heaven and Hell, as if Any of us have the Right to, or some Preordained Knowledge? Is there Growth in that? Virtue, Ability, Desire to Be One's Higher Self, is about making Choices, making a Difference. Be Fruitful, Multiply, Replenish the Earth, Witness, and Testify Faithfully about What You Witness, according to Purpose. Love God above All Else, Love Each Other As Ourselves. Try not to put words into God's mouth. Try not to throw stones. Leave no wake, no speeding in the canals. :):):)

This is typical of the same stupid straw arguments that people use to try to silence religious people, those of us who are called by Christ's name and follow the Word of the father do exactly just that, follow the Word of God, we do *NOT* put words in God's mouth and speak our opinion, we speak exactly what the Bible says.

Then You know that the Bible teaches You to speak Conscience.
 
Thats not a loving God you idiot. using your logic, a judge who lets murderers and rapists off without punishing them is a loving judge.

Dude.....you're giving Christians a bad name.:slap:

I think you could come up with something better to defend morality then name-calling.:ahole-1:

man just shut up with your hairspliting.

You're right.

Jesus didn't want us to live by his teachings.....just preach them as often as we saw fit and by that give nonbelievers plenty of reason to hate Christians.
 
Dude.....you're giving Christians a bad name.:slap:

I think you could come up with something better to defend morality then name-calling.:ahole-1:

man just shut up with your hairspliting.

You're right.

Jesus didn't want us to live by his teachings.....just preach them as often as we saw fit and by that give nonbelievers plenty of reason to hate Christians.


Lies, you obviously do not read the Bible.
 
man just shut up with your hairspliting.

You're right.

Jesus didn't want us to live by his teachings.....just preach them as often as we saw fit and by that give nonbelievers plenty of reason to hate Christians.


Lies, you obviously do not read the Bible.

Lets start with Jeremiah Chapter 23.

23:9 Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness.

23:10 For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.

23:11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.

23:12 Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.

23:13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.

23:14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

23:15 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.

23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

23:17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

23:18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?

23:19 Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.

23:20 The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.

23:21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

23:22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.

23:23 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?

23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

23:25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.

23:26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

23:27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.


23:28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.

23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

23:30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.

23:31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.

23:32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.




http://www.holybible.com/resources/KJV_DFND/index.php?Book=67&mode=4&BookTitle=Jeremiah&Chapter=23
 
man just shut up with your hairspliting.

You're right.

Jesus didn't want us to live by his teachings.....just preach them as often as we saw fit and by that give nonbelievers plenty of reason to hate Christians.


Lies, you obviously do not read the Bible.

Charlie, I am a Being, Created and Purposed by God, just as You. I am a Christian, I was raised in Christ and Accept Him. What I am Not is a Fundamentalist, I choose Conscience before anything of the Material World. My main criticism when it comes to hurling stones, is one loses track of the Goal or Prize. The tone of a message is critical to how it is received, best to weigh that against what one claims to attend to. Old Testament and New Testament, Reconciliation is the Theme. You might want to pray on Jonah and Nineveh some???

The Holy Bible
 
You're right.

Jesus didn't want us to live by his teachings.....just preach them as often as we saw fit and by that give nonbelievers plenty of reason to hate Christians.


Lies, you obviously do not read the Bible.

Lets start with Jeremiah Chapter 23.

23:9 Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness.

23:10 For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.

23:11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.

23:12 Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.

23:13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.

23:14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

23:15 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.

23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

23:17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

23:18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?

23:19 Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.

23:20 The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.

23:21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

23:22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.

23:23 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?

23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

23:25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.

23:26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

23:27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.


23:28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.

23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

23:30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.

23:31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.

23:32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.




The Holy Bible


Those passages are obviously referring to false prophets and the prophets of the Phoenician god Baal, he is not speaking against His prohets that preach the truth and preach His Words.
 
Take God out the picture, take religion out the picture.

Are all humans built with a sense of morality?

If so, give examples. If so, prove it.

Or is that just faith based as well...

Civilization gives us "morals". Don't steal because I don't want someone to steal from me or anyone I love.

Common sense doesn't come from something "magical".

Besides, if the only reason you don't do "bad things" is because of your faith, may you never lose your faith. Because you just told us what you would do.
 
You're right.

Jesus didn't want us to live by his teachings.....just preach them as often as we saw fit and by that give nonbelievers plenty of reason to hate Christians.


Lies, you obviously do not read the Bible.

Charlie, I am a Being, Created and Purposed by God, just as You. I am a Christian, I was raised in Christ and Accept Him. What I am Not is a Fundamentalist, I choose Conscience before anything of the Material World. My main criticism when it comes to hurling stones, is one loses track of the Goal or Prize. The tone of a message is critical to how it is received, best to weigh that against what one claims to attend to. Old Testament and New Testament, Reconciliation is the Theme. You might want to pray on Jonah and Nineveh some???

The Holy Bible


The Bass is simply being truthful just like Christ was and even Christ Himself was very blunt at times, there are certain situations where the truth comes out in ways people are not going to like and some will feel offended, thats just the way its going to be. God does not accept sinful behavior as ok and the Bass will rather follow that example than man's example.
 
"When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion." Abraham Lincoln

I find I often disagree with my secular and religious friends on morality. Morality like sex and breathing and food and language are all an integral part of being human. It exists in the social context of life and is arguably a force of natural selection. Consider: A child is ready to drown if you don't do something. What person would not save the child? Of course you may consider the obvious come back, and I'll leave them to your imagination. But if you have one that stands alone outside of the social milieu that can allow you to let that child drown state it.


"But in the end, science does not provide the answers most of us require. Its story of our origins and of our end is, to say the least, unsatisfactory. To the question, "How did it all begin?", science answers, "Probably by an accident." To the question, "How will it all end?", science answers, "Probably by an accident." And to many people, the accidental life is not worth living. Moreover, the science-god has no answer to the question, "Why are we here?" and, to the question, "What moral instructions do you give us?", the science-god maintains silence." Neil Postman
 
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You were a very precocious baby if you were born with the knowledge of right and wrong. Most of us were born with the ability to breathe, suck milk, pee and crap. And most of us had to learn about right and wrong.

I didn't have to be taught not to show prejudice, nor did I have to be taught that making a woman or a child cry in pain is not music to my ears.

Prejudice is a natural instinct in humans. We can never overcome it, we can minimise its effects through education and law.

This reminds me of the remarks by David Foster Wallace that midcan linked to a little while ago, about the two young fish and the older fish. The two young fish are swimming along happily and the older fish greets them, "Morning boys, how's the water?" And the two younger fish look at each other with, "what's water?"

We're like those young fish. We grow up in a moral climate, we breathe it in like we breathe air.

Interesting theory, but would you care to offer some supporting evidence?
 
Sadly they still do.

But perhaps I should clarify my point.



My point is that morality isn't dependent on a god belief or religion.

Some societies worshipped gods which demanded human sacrifice. How did they know that? The priestly caste told them so.

Humans aren't built with a sense of morality. We were able to work out what was good for us and what was bad for us though. We did that without religion or god belief.

Conclusions, like antique beds, should not be jumped upon. And you just turned the whole antique store into a trampoline.

:lol: Nice metaphor!

So, where did I go wrong?

What part of "your entire post consisted of jumping to conclusions" was confusing to you? Where did you go wrong? Pretty much every word you uttered, and all the premises they were based on.
 

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