There is no Morality

[manu1959]

there are good people and there are bad people....they are born that way.....

 

[Moon.child]

there are good people and there are bad people....they are born that way.....

Should we klill all petty thieves, since they 'born that way' and can't be changed?

 

[Intense]

Take God out the picture, take religion out the picture.

Are all humans built with a sense of morality?

If so, give examples. If so, prove it.

Or is that just faith based as well...

Golden Rule....it's really that simple.

That is a Religious Source, Ya Know.

 

[Intense]

were trained by what we see in our home as we grow. that's why atheism keeps spreading they don't want their children exposed the bible. now look at the school children with all the shootings, raping, beatings, just to have a laugh but morality doesn't affect us. yeah right

Actually--Atheists do not want a religion forced onto them or their kids. At least normal Atheists.

Just remember, the reason why Religion was taking out of the school is because of a school districts desire to indoctrinate the student body with the Bible through the use of force. Not because "Atheists want morality out of the schools".

In fact, there are atheists that are actually pushing for the religious education in public schools--only with the caveat of teaching the history of the religions. So far--no christian wish to take up this call.

True Christianity is a Voluntary choice, It is not applied through Mandate, but by example.

 

[manu1959]

there are good people and there are bad people....they are born that way.....

Should we klill all petty thieves, since they 'born that way' and can't be changed?

can you explain how you got from wht i posted to what you posted......i seem to be missing a few posts ....

 

[Diuretic]

Take God out the picture, take religion out the picture.

Are all humans built with a sense of morality?

If so, give examples. If so, prove it.

Or is that just faith based as well...

Golden Rule....it's really that simple.

That is a Religious Source, Ya Know.

Probably not, it probably precedes religion itself.

 

[mudwhistle]

Don't worry, most of us non-christians are smart enough to know he isn't the only flavor that exists.

He seems to me to be an atheist that's trying to act like a jerk while claiming to be a Christian. No real Christian talks like that.

However I'm sure there are plenty of irrational people out there willing to think the worst.

No, The Bass is not an atheist pretending to be Christian, you're getting the real deal and what do you expect a God fearing Christian to be like? God fearing Christians would never accept sinful acts as ok and will always speak God's Words, our duty is to glorify God by doing His will, not to accommodate feelings of the sinful and wicked.

No, you're just a self-righteous asshole who likes acting like he's better then everyone else and preaching at them even when it's not welcome.

 

[Cecilie1200]

One immediate benefit is to remain STD free.

It's completely possible to remain STD-free without embracing morality as represented by sexual abstinence. And I'm not sure I would define abstaining from sex in order to keep myself healthy as necessarily a moral choice. Certainly it isn't altruistic in any sense.

I am also not talking about morality just in terms of sex. If there is no objective standard of morality imposed by a higher good outside of me, what benefit is there for me in not being completely selfish and thinking only of my own wants and desires? Why should I bother?

You wanted to know what benefit...and I gave you one specific benefit.

By the way, love your kitty.

Except that I did specify altruism in my post, and you gave me a selfish benefit, which negates the entire concept. If I'm abstaining from sex merely to protect my own health, I'm not being moral, any more than I'm being moral by washing my hands frequently during cold and flu season.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I am sorry, but THAT God is not worthy of my life, breath, or respect.

So you've decided to reject the Almighty Creator of the Universe on the grounds that He doesn't live up to YOUR moral standards? Does the word "hubris" ring any bells with you?

 

[Intense]

It's completely possible to remain STD-free without embracing morality as represented by sexual abstinence. And I'm not sure I would define abstaining from sex in order to keep myself healthy as necessarily a moral choice. Certainly it isn't altruistic in any sense.

I am also not talking about morality just in terms of sex. If there is no objective standard of morality imposed by a higher good outside of me, what benefit is there for me in not being completely selfish and thinking only of my own wants and desires? Why should I bother?

You wanted to know what benefit...and I gave you one specific benefit.

By the way, love your kitty.

Except that I did specify altruism in my post, and you gave me a selfish benefit, which negates the entire concept. If I'm abstaining from sex merely to protect my own health, I'm not being moral, any more than I'm being moral by washing my hands frequently during cold and flu season.

It does keep You and those around You healthier. Limited, but the reason behind both concerns is constructive.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Take God out the picture, take religion out the picture.

Are all humans built with a sense of morality?

If so, give examples. If so, prove it.

Or is that just faith based as well...

Civilization gives us "morals". Don't steal because I don't want someone to steal from me or anyone I love.

Common sense doesn't come from something "magical".

Besides, if the only reason you don't do "bad things" is because of your faith, may you never lose your faith. Because you just told us what you would do.

Hey, way to state your own personal - and inanely derivative - opinions as the only true, settled facts as a way of totally avoiding any necessity of actually thinking about the issue, giving an indepth response or, God forbid, answering any of the questions that have been raised.

Really, have you ever - even one time - made a post on this board that wasn't two or three vague, generalized assertions of your puerile worldview disguised as "Behold, this is the secret of the universe!" pronouncements? What is it you actually think you're adding to the discourse around here, beyond comic relief?

 

[Intense]

Golden Rule....it's really that simple.

That is a Religious Source, Ya Know.

Probably not, it probably precedes religion itself.

The golden rule has its roots in a wide range of world cultures, and is a standard which different cultures use to resolve conflicts;[3] it was present in the philosophies of ancient Judaism, India, Greece, and China. Principal philosophers and religious figures have stated it in different ways, but its most common English phrasing is attributed to Jesus of Nazareth in the Biblical book of Luke: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." The "Do unto others" wording first appeared in English in a Catholic Catechism around 1567, but certainly in the reprint of 1583.[4]
Ethic of reciprocity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Cecilie1200]

"Working out what was good for us and what was bad for us" is called morality. Societies are formed on common beliefs, and the vast majority of societies has been formed based on a common religious belief. Name one that wasn't.

Hang on. Apparently we agree that morality is "working out what was good forus and what was bad for us". I'll just put that aside for a moment because I'm not going to claim that there is an agreement until it's acknowledged.

"Societies are formed on common beliefs."

Are they? Or do common beliefs follow the gathering that becomes a society? And could it be the case that societies are actually formed out of a need for humans to cooperate with one another to respond to the biological imperative?

If "the vast majority of societies has been formed based on a common religious belief" then that assumes that the religious belief existed prior to the society existing. How could that be?

Careful--it could mean common beliefs shared by individuals in that society, not trans-societal beliefs that are shared.

Like was said earlier--SOME religions used to require human sacrifices.

SOME religions used to keep temple prostitutes.

SOME religions stoned people for what was considered major infractions by its members.

But not all religions did the same thing. Nor is there one religion that established all the cultures and societies that exist today.

Sounds to me like you're getting hung up on details, and mistaking them for the big picture.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Prejudice is a natural instinct in humans. We can never overcome it, we can minimise its effects through education and law.

This reminds me of the remarks by David Foster Wallace that midcan linked to a little while ago, about the two young fish and the older fish. The two young fish are swimming along happily and the older fish greets them, "Morning boys, how's the water?" And the two younger fish look at each other with, "what's water?"

We're like those young fish. We grow up in a moral climate, we breathe it in like we breathe air.

Interesting theory, but would you care to offer some supporting evidence?

About prejudice being natural? Test the water here.

No, about the rest of the post. The offhand remark about prejudice, I'm just putting down to natural projection of personal flaws onto other people as a way of justifying oneself. I don't waste time in bothering to answer what is essentially an emotional problem one needs to take up with one's therapist.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Nice metaphor!

So, where did I go wrong?

What part of "your entire post consisted of jumping to conclusions" was confusing to you? Where did you go wrong? Pretty much every word you uttered, and all the premises they were based on.

Can you be a bit more specific?

No. That's as specific as it gets. Every word of your post was crap, and all the premises it was based on were crap. Start over.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Take God out the picture, take religion out the picture.

Are all humans built with a sense of morality?

If so, give examples. If so, prove it.

Or is that just faith based as well...

Golden Rule....it's really that simple.

Oh, really? Simple, is it? Then let me refer you to my subsequent question on the topic. Without a higher purpose outside myself, why would I care about doing unto others? Where's the benefit to me?

 

[Montrovant]

Oh, really? Simple, is it? Then let me refer you to my subsequent question on the topic. Without a higher purpose outside myself, why would I care about doing unto others? Where's the benefit to me?

I know this wasn't directed to me, but I'm going to give my opinion on it. I think the second part of the phrase is the obvious answer to your question. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you....by treating others well, you hope to be treated well yourself. No higher purpose outside yourself is needed for that to be a benefit. Certainly, it's not always going to work, but that clearly seems to be the purpose outside of any religious or spiritual connotations.

 

[mudwhistle]

It's completely possible to remain STD-free without embracing morality as represented by sexual abstinence. And I'm not sure I would define abstaining from sex in order to keep myself healthy as necessarily a moral choice. Certainly it isn't altruistic in any sense.

I am also not talking about morality just in terms of sex. If there is no objective standard of morality imposed by a higher good outside of me, what benefit is there for me in not being completely selfish and thinking only of my own wants and desires? Why should I bother?

You wanted to know what benefit...and I gave you one specific benefit.

By the way, love your kitty.

Except that I did specify altruism in my post, and you gave me a selfish benefit, which negates the entire concept. If I'm abstaining from sex merely to protect my own health, I'm not being moral, any more than I'm being moral by washing my hands frequently during cold and flu season.

You asked for an example. I gave you one.

Sorry that you didn't like it even though it was a valid example.

 

[bodecea]

Take God out the picture, take religion out the picture.

Are all humans built with a sense of morality?

If so, give examples. If so, prove it.

Or is that just faith based as well...

Golden Rule....it's really that simple.

Oh, really? Simple, is it? Then let me refer you to my subsequent question on the topic. Without a higher purpose outside myself, why would I care about doing unto others? Where's the benefit to me?

Hoping for reciprical peace. May I also suggest John Locke. Read about the State of Nature and how people form Social Contracts for protection.

 

[Diuretic]

That is a Religious Source, Ya Know.

Probably not, it probably precedes religion itself.

The golden rule has its roots in a wide range of world cultures, and is a standard which different cultures use to resolve conflicts;[3] it was present in the philosophies of ancient Judaism, India, Greece, and China. Principal philosophers and religious figures have stated it in different ways, but its most common English phrasing is attributed to Jesus of Nazareth in the Biblical book of Luke: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." The "Do unto others" wording first appeared in English in a Catholic Catechism around 1567, but certainly in the reprint of 1583.[4]
Ethic of reciprocity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I appreciate the info - but - not that this is a huge issue - it probably precedes religion, being useful for humans in overcoming our natural instinct to be wary of others outside our immediate circle.