The World Wide Flood

[alang1216]

Your grasping at imaginary straws, Alang. Your suggestion is patently ridiculous as any geologist with an honest bone in his body would tell you. The fact is that the discovery was made and the evidence - even the discovery of marine sediment, fossils of corals and shellfish, at 2000 metres above sea level is rock solid proof that the flood happened.

Plate tectonics is accepted by the vast majority of scientist since the evidence for it is overwhelming and not just in geology but in biology too. I won't waste either of our time trying to explain it you, I'm sure you've heard it all before.

You mention the discovery of marine sediments at the tops of mountains as evidence of a great flood. What you find, if you look at the layers of sediment in the Gulf of Mexico is much more complex. We've drilled through miles of sediments there and what we find is evidence of many, many individual floods, not just one. Every year the Mississippi would flood and leave a new layer of sediment and now there are tens of thousands of layers. If you looked at the Nile delta you find the same thing. The earth sure looks like it is very old.

 

[MaryL]

Well, over the millennia the face of the earth has changed, land masses rose and sank back into the oceans. And Noah's descendants hadn't evolved. You can say there have been world wide floods, but not in the biblical sense.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Your grasping at imaginary straws, Alang. Your suggestion is patently ridiculous as any geologist with an honest bone in his body would tell you. The fact is that the discovery was made and the evidence - even the discovery of marine sediment, fossils of corals and shellfish, at 2000 metres above sea level is rock solid proof that the flood happened.

Plate tectonics is accepted by the vast majority of scientist since the evidence for it is overwhelming and not just in geology but in biology too. I won't waste either of our time trying to explain it you, I'm sure you've heard it all before.

You mention the discovery of marine sediments at the tops of mountains as evidence of a great flood. What you find, if you look at the layers of sediment in the Gulf of Mexico is much more complex. We've drilled through miles of sediments there and what we find is evidence of many, many individual floods, not just one. Every year the Mississippi would flood and leave a new layer of sediment and now there are tens of thousands of layers. If you looked at the Nile delta you find the same thing. The earth sure looks like it is very old.

You have yet to provide a single source or link for any of your rebuttals, Alang. Why should anyone believe you when you have refused to examine the mountain of evidence on this very thread and yet so quick to dismiss it as insignificant to the discussion? Do you think that your being an atheist might have something to do with it?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Well, over the millennia the face of the earth has changed, land masses rose and sank back into the oceans. And Noah's descendants hadn't evolved. You can say there have been world wide floods, but not in the biblical sense.

Why not, Mary?

 

[Holos]

OP,

you have provided many variables as evidence to be investigated in support of science,

but no evidence has been presented to be investigated in support of logic.

The poll only gives us two options:
Science or Logic.

I cannot make my selection if your presentation does not allow me to investigate for both sides through your own standards.

Matthew Henry said, There are none so blind as those who will not see.
I would like to add, ....and there are none so wicked as those who prevent those who would.

What exactly are you communicating with the word wicked?

Your message doesn't seem very clear, and I feel obligated by the duty to provide.

 

[alang1216]

You have yet to provide a single source or link for any of your rebuttals, Alang. Why should anyone believe you when you have refused to examine the mountain of evidence on this very thread and yet so quick to dismiss it as insignificant to the discussion? Do you think that your being an atheist might have something to do with it?

No, I think my being a geologist might have something to do with it. I can quote myself that's why I don't have to cut and paste the work of others.

I have heard the young-earth and flood explanations before and they just don't hold water (so to speak). If you really think you have something new feel free to share it but in your own words, not those of another.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You have yet to provide a single source or link for any of your rebuttals, Alang. Why should anyone believe you when you have refused to examine the mountain of evidence on this very thread and yet so quick to dismiss it as insignificant to the discussion? Do you think that your being an atheist might have something to do with it?

No, I think my being a geologist might have something to do with it. I can quote myself that's why I don't have to cut and paste the work of others.

I have heard the young-earth and flood explanations before and they just don't hold water (so to speak). If you really think you have something new feel free to share it but in your own words, not those of another.

I have done both. I have also provided the evidence which refutes your own claims which have yet to be substantiated with a single source or link. You are a geologist? So is this man (in video below). He is a world renowned geologist who has a Ph.D. - Doctorate in Geology. Do you? If you are not an expert in a particular field do you use sources which have the experience necessary to explain it? If so, you are a hypocrite of the highest order - to judge me on my decision to seek out the very best experts who explained their findings, discoveries, evidence & gave lectures which support the OP in his findings. Lawyers do it all the time in a court of law. It's how the truth is discovered.

You don't believe your being an atheist has anything to do with your denial of the evidence that overwhelmingly supports the biblical story of Noah and the flood? I strongly disagree.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

OP,

you have provided many variables as evidence to be investigated in support of science,

but no evidence has been presented to be investigated in support of logic.

The poll only gives us two options:
Science or Logic.

I cannot make my selection if your presentation does not allow me to investigate for both sides through your own standards.

Matthew Henry said, There are none so blind as those who will not see.
I would like to add, ....and there are none so wicked as those who prevent those who would.

What exactly are you communicating with the word wicked?

Your message doesn't seem very clear, and I feel obligated by the duty to provide.

Forgive me, I was referring to Alang1216, not you. As for the word "wicked," consider the word nefarious a more precise definition of what I meant.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

There was a flood in the middle east thousands of years ago, a 'land bridge' was overcome by the ocean and a huge flood spread inland. Many societies have fables about this and science, I can't remember where I saw it but there was a documentary on this, has evidence of a large flood. However almost all human societies around the world have a 'flood story'. Since floods are common today it isn't hard to see why. There is no evidence of any 'divine' flood or of 'an ark' where two of every animal, except dinosaurs and the other 99% of extinct species, were put on a big boat.

It is a children's story. Written 2,000 years ago by adults that had a child's understanding of nature and the world. In 1883 Krakatoa, a volcano in the south pacific, exploded with incredible force. The loudest sound recorded by man it could be heard 3,000 miles away in China. Yet because humans had already studied and were on the way to enlightenment regarding natural events this wasn't considered 'god punishing ... the south pacific with his mighty fist'.

Huge floods, disappearing ships in the Bermuda Triangle, sink holes that swallow up hole city blocks. All these things would seem to be supernatural events to people 2,000 years ago. We know better today. If the moon stops orbiting the Earth and starts orbiting Venus then you have an argument.

Ah! Yet another atheist bent on shipwrecking the faith of those who believe in the biblical account of the flood. You guys all appear to have the same wicked agenda. As Dr. Snelling, the world renowned Geologist in video explains, if there was no world wide flood then the Bible isn't true. Of course, the biblical flood is true and this is why the God haters work so hard to deny it. It isn't enough that you refuse to believe it, you are hellbent on making sure no one else does either. It won't work. The jury is in, the verdict has been rendered and the biblical flood has been proven a fact. CASE CLOSED.

 

[guno]

More evidence presented by Dr. Kent Hovind:



Genesis 8:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
Please note that the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeen day of the month, upon the mountains of Mt. Ararat. Notice it doesn't say it rested on Mt. Ararat. It says, "upon the mountains of Mt. Ararat."

Hovind is a discredited kook

Kent E. Hovind (born January 15, 1953) is an American Christian fundamentalist evangelist and tax protester. He is a controversial figure in the Young Earth creationist movement and his ministry focuses on attempting to convince listeners to deny scientific theories including evolution, geophysics, and cosmology in favor of a literalist interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative found in the Bible. Hovind's views, which combine elements of creation science and conspiracy theory, are dismissed by the scientific community as fringe theory and pseudo-scholarship. He has been criticized by Young Earth Creationist organizations like Answers in Genesis for his continued use of discredited arguments that have been abandoned by others in the movement.

Hovind established Creation Science Evangelism (CSE) in 1989 and Dinosaur Adventure Land in 2001 in Pensacola, Florida. He frequently spoke on Young Earth creationism in schools, churches, debates, and on radio and television broadcasts. His son Eric Hovind took over operation of CSE after Kent began serving a ten-year prison sentence in January 2007 for federal court convictions for failing to pay taxes, obstructing federal agents, and structuring cash transactions. In a separate federal court case in early 2015, a federal court jury found Hovind guilty of contempt of court in connection with a charge of disobeying a prior court order. The trial court, however, threw out the verdict and rendered a judgment of acquittal, concluding that Hovind could not have disobeyed that order. By Spring 2016, he was actively plan

Inside the Mind of a Creationist: A Critical Analysis of Kent Hovind's “Doctoral Dissertation” to build a new Dinosaur Adventure Land in Lenox, Alabama.

Inside the Mind of a Creationist: A Critical Analysis of Kent Hovind's “Doctoral Dissertation”

Felon creationist Kent Hovind is released from prison and Jim Bob Duggar was his welcome wagon - See more at: Felon creationist Kent Hovind is released from prison and Jim Bob Duggar was his welcome wagon

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

More evidence presented by Dr. Kent Hovind:



Genesis 8:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
Please note that the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeen day of the month, upon the mountains of Mt. Ararat. Notice it doesn't say it rested on Mt. Ararat. It says, "upon the mountains of Mt. Ararat."

20 Facts Proving Immoral Deviants Imprisoned Kent Hovind - Illegal Religious Persecution in America | #FreeKent Hovind


Hovind is a discredited kook

Kent E. Hovind (born January 15, 1953) is an American Christian fundamentalist evangelist and tax protester. He is a controversial figure in the Young Earth creationist movement and his ministry focuses on attempting to convince listeners to deny scientific theories including evolution, geophysics, and cosmology in favor of a literalist interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative found in the Bible. Hovind's views, which combine elements of creation science and conspiracy theory, are dismissed by the scientific community as fringe theory and pseudo-scholarship. He has been criticized by Young Earth Creationist organizations like Answers in Genesis for his continued use of discredited arguments that have been abandoned by others in the movement.

Hovind established Creation Science Evangelism (CSE) in 1989 and Dinosaur Adventure Land in 2001 in Pensacola, Florida. He frequently spoke on Young Earth creationism in schools, churches, debates, and on radio and television broadcasts. His son Eric Hovind took over operation of CSE after Kent began serving a ten-year prison sentence in January 2007 for federal court convictions for failing to pay taxes, obstructing federal agents, and structuring cash transactions. In a separate federal court case in early 2015, a federal court jury found Hovind guilty of contempt of court in connection with a charge of disobeying a prior court order. The trial court, however, threw out the verdict and rendered a judgment of acquittal, concluding that Hovind could not have disobeyed that order. By Spring 2016, he was actively plan

Inside the Mind of a Creationist: A Critical Analysis of Kent Hovind's “Doctoral Dissertation” to build a new Dinosaur Adventure Land in Lenox, Alabama.

Inside the Mind of a Creationist: A Critical Analysis of Kent Hovind's “Doctoral Dissertation”

20 Facts Proving Immoral Deviants Imprisoned Kent Hovind - Illegal Religious Persecution in America | #FreeKent Hovind

Just a few days after Kent Hovind’s trial, this assistant U.S. attorney, J.D. Roy Atchison, was caught, arrested and jailed for attempting to rape a five-year-old.

Later, Atchison committed suicide. Here is the story on that:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/06/us/06suicide.html

MIAMI, Oct. 5 — A federal prosecutor charged with traveling from Florida to Michigan to have sex with a 5-year-old girl committed suicide on Friday in prison, his lawyer said.

The prosecutor, J. D. Roy Atchison, 53, was arrested on Sept. 16 leaving a plane in Detroit as part of an Internet sting operation led by the sheriff’s department in Macomb County, Mich.

The authorities said he had been chatting online for two weeks with an undercover detective who posed as a mother offering to let men have sex with her young daughter.

At the time of his arrest, the authorities said, Mr. Atchison, of Gulf Breeze, Fla., was carrying a Dora the Explorer doll, hoop earrings and petroleum jelly.

Mugshot of Federal Prosecutor J.D. Atchison​

A spokeswoman for the Bureau of Prisons said Mr. Atchison was found unresponsive on Friday morning in the special housing unit of the federal prison in Milan, Mich. He had been transferred there after trying to hang himself in the Sanilac County Jail days after his arrest.

Then after much waiting..........Dr. Kent Hovind was cleared of all charges.
Department of Justice Admits Pastor Kent Hovind is Innocent - Illegal Religious Persecution in America | #FreeKent Hovind
Hovind cleared of all charges for now
BREAKING! Kent Hovind to be RELEASED! All Charges DROPPED! Plus Personal Message from Mr Hovind from Prison! | Alternative
This is what happens when the wicked accuse the godly who are innocent! The Prosecutor committed suicide after he was imprisoned. He was a paedophile, now serving an eternal sentence in the fires of hell and Dr. Hovind has been cleared of all charges and is free.

Feeling embarrassed yet, Guno? You should be!

 

[IsaacNewton]

There was a flood in the middle east thousands of years ago, a 'land bridge' was overcome by the ocean and a huge flood spread inland. Many societies have fables about this and science, I can't remember where I saw it but there was a documentary on this, has evidence of a large flood. However almost all human societies around the world have a 'flood story'. Since floods are common today it isn't hard to see why. There is no evidence of any 'divine' flood or of 'an ark' where two of every animal, except dinosaurs and the other 99% of extinct species, were put on a big boat.

It is a children's story. Written 2,000 years ago by adults that had a child's understanding of nature and the world. In 1883 Krakatoa, a volcano in the south pacific, exploded with incredible force. The loudest sound recorded by man it could be heard 3,000 miles away in China. Yet because humans had already studied and were on the way to enlightenment regarding natural events this wasn't considered 'god punishing ... the south pacific with his mighty fist'.

Huge floods, disappearing ships in the Bermuda Triangle, sink holes that swallow up hole city blocks. All these things would seem to be supernatural events to people 2,000 years ago. We know better today. If the moon stops orbiting the Earth and starts orbiting Venus then you have an argument.

Ah! Yet another atheist bent on shipwrecking the faith of those who believe in the biblical account of the flood. You guys all appear to have the same wicked agenda. As Dr. Snelling, the world renowned Geologist in video explains, if there was no world wide flood then the Bible isn't true. Of course, the biblical flood is true and this is why the God haters work so hard to deny it. It isn't enough that you refuse to believe it, you are hellbent on making sure no one else does either. It won't work. The jury is in, the verdict has been rendered and the biblical flood has been proven a fact. CASE CLOSED.

Hilarious and sad. The case is as closed as your mind. You believe in magic, like a child who actually thinks a magician makes a rabbit appear in his hat out of nothing. There is no magic cupcake. No magician in history has every done real magic. ALL of it is slight of hand and misdirection. I know it comes as a shock to you but adults need to leave childish things behind at some point and face reality.

Humans believe in about 4,000 gods on Earth right now. You are an atheist regarding 3,999 of them. I just believe in one less than you do.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

There was a flood in the middle east thousands of years ago, a 'land bridge' was overcome by the ocean and a huge flood spread inland. Many societies have fables about this and science, I can't remember where I saw it but there was a documentary on this, has evidence of a large flood. However almost all human societies around the world have a 'flood story'. Since floods are common today it isn't hard to see why. There is no evidence of any 'divine' flood or of 'an ark' where two of every animal, except dinosaurs and the other 99% of extinct species, were put on a big boat.

It is a children's story. Written 2,000 years ago by adults that had a child's understanding of nature and the world. In 1883 Krakatoa, a volcano in the south pacific, exploded with incredible force. The loudest sound recorded by man it could be heard 3,000 miles away in China. Yet because humans had already studied and were on the way to enlightenment regarding natural events this wasn't considered 'god punishing ... the south pacific with his mighty fist'.

Huge floods, disappearing ships in the Bermuda Triangle, sink holes that swallow up hole city blocks. All these things would seem to be supernatural events to people 2,000 years ago. We know better today. If the moon stops orbiting the Earth and starts orbiting Venus then you have an argument.

Ah! Yet another atheist bent on shipwrecking the faith of those who believe in the biblical account of the flood. You guys all appear to have the same wicked agenda. As Dr. Snelling, the world renowned Geologist in video explains, if there was no world wide flood then the Bible isn't true. Of course, the biblical flood is true and this is why the God haters work so hard to deny it. It isn't enough that you refuse to believe it, you are hellbent on making sure no one else does either. It won't work. The jury is in, the verdict has been rendered and the biblical flood has been proven a fact. CASE CLOSED.

Hilarious and sad. The case is as closed as your mind. You believe in magic, like a child who actually thinks a magician makes a rabbit appear in his hat out of nothing. There is no magic cupcake. No magician in history has every done real magic. ALL of it is slight of hand and misdirection. I know it comes as a shock to you but adults need to leave childish things behind at some point and face reality.

Humans believe in about 4,000 gods on Earth right now. You are an atheist regarding 3,999 of them. I just believe in one less than you do.

Fluff counts for nothing. Give me evidence, sources and links to back up your claims, Newton. You won't because you can't. Which is why this case IS closed!

 

[IsaacNewton]

There was a flood in the middle east thousands of years ago, a 'land bridge' was overcome by the ocean and a huge flood spread inland. Many societies have fables about this and science, I can't remember where I saw it but there was a documentary on this, has evidence of a large flood. However almost all human societies around the world have a 'flood story'. Since floods are common today it isn't hard to see why. There is no evidence of any 'divine' flood or of 'an ark' where two of every animal, except dinosaurs and the other 99% of extinct species, were put on a big boat.

It is a children's story. Written 2,000 years ago by adults that had a child's understanding of nature and the world. In 1883 Krakatoa, a volcano in the south pacific, exploded with incredible force. The loudest sound recorded by man it could be heard 3,000 miles away in China. Yet because humans had already studied and were on the way to enlightenment regarding natural events this wasn't considered 'god punishing ... the south pacific with his mighty fist'.

Huge floods, disappearing ships in the Bermuda Triangle, sink holes that swallow up hole city blocks. All these things would seem to be supernatural events to people 2,000 years ago. We know better today. If the moon stops orbiting the Earth and starts orbiting Venus then you have an argument.

Ah! Yet another atheist bent on shipwrecking the faith of those who believe in the biblical account of the flood. You guys all appear to have the same wicked agenda. As Dr. Snelling, the world renowned Geologist in video explains, if there was no world wide flood then the Bible isn't true. Of course, the biblical flood is true and this is why the God haters work so hard to deny it. It isn't enough that you refuse to believe it, you are hellbent on making sure no one else does either. It won't work. The jury is in, the verdict has been rendered and the biblical flood has been proven a fact. CASE CLOSED.

Hilarious and sad. The case is as closed as your mind. You believe in magic, like a child who actually thinks a magician makes a rabbit appear in his hat out of nothing. There is no magic cupcake. No magician in history has every done real magic. ALL of it is slight of hand and misdirection. I know it comes as a shock to you but adults need to leave childish things behind at some point and face reality.

Humans believe in about 4,000 gods on Earth right now. You are an atheist regarding 3,999 of them. I just believe in one less than you do.

Fluff counts for nothing. Give me evidence, sources and links to back up your claims, Newton. You won't because you can't. Which is why this case IS closed!

You are making claims that tens of thousands of the smartest humans that have ever lived are all wrong, and you know what is right.

If you are under 15 years old you are excused for this nonsense. If you aren't then I can only view you as someone that is deluded about their own importance and has no real understanding of life and knowledge.

 

[westwall]

Scientific Evidence for a Worldwide Flood
The Age of the Earth: Part Four

Sorry but NONE of this stands up to scientific scrutiny. It just isn't so as the abundant evidence shows.

Actually, ALL societies that have anything even resembling a long term history ALL have tales of a worldwide flood. There is evidence to support it as well. The hard part is where do you look and that is a couple of hundred meters under the oceans along the edges of the continental shelves where man once resided. Prior to the end of the last Ice age mans towns were along the coastlines of the various continental shelves, just like man congregates near river mouths and the coastlines today.

When the ice melted, the seas rose and in an age when you are only as fast as you can run, most died and everything they had was drowned. Along the bottom of the Black Sea they have found many ancients town sites with side scan sonar.

 

[ScienceRocks]

There's not enough water to cover most of the mountains on this planet(25 to 30 thousand feet deeper then today). So I don't really understand how this could be at all possible.;

 

[westwall]

There's not enough water to cover most of the mountains on this planet(25 to 30 thousand feet deeper then today). So I don't really understand how this could be at all possible.;

The stories are mainly allegorical. However, when man was living along the continental shelves when the ice age ended, and the oceans rose 200 meters, I can easily see how primitive man would say it covered the globe. For all intents and purposes it did, to them.

 

[Ravi]

Back in Noah's time the earth was flat. A worldwide flood would have been impossible because the water would just drain off the edge.

 

[alang1216]

I have done both. I have also provided the evidence which refutes your own claims which have yet to be substantiated with a single source or link. You are a geologist? So is this man (in video below). He is a world renowned geologist who has a Ph.D. - Doctorate in Geology. Do you? If you are not an expert in a particular field do you use sources which have the experience necessary to explain it? If so, you are a hypocrite of the highest order - to judge me on my decision to seek out the very best experts who explained their findings, discoveries, evidence & gave lectures which support the OP in his findings. Lawyers do it all the time in a court of law. It's how the truth is discovered.

You don't believe your being an atheist has anything to do with your denial of the evidence that overwhelmingly supports the biblical story of Noah and the flood? I strongly disagree.

Dr. Snelling is indeed a respected geologist but he is also a part time creationist. I say part time because he leaves the creationist hat at home when he works.

Below is a paraphrase of one of his papers:

"The oldest rocks in the Koongarra area, domes of granitoids and granitic gneiss, are of Archaean age (ie to geologists this means they are older than 2500 million years). The Archaean rocks are mantled by Lower Proterozoic (younger than 2500 million years) metasediments: all were later buried deeply, heavily folded and, between 1870 and 1800 million years ago, were subjected to regional metamorphism at considerable temperatures and pressures."

Note that he has no problem with time frames of millions of years. A hypocrite of the highest order? What does he really believe and why should anyone listen to him?

 

[alang1216]

I have done both. I have also provided the evidence which refutes your own claims which have yet to be substantiated with a single source or link. You are a geologist? So is this man (in video below). He is a world renowned geologist who has a Ph.D. - Doctorate in Geology. Do you? If you are not an expert in a particular field do you use sources which have the experience necessary to explain it? If so, you are a hypocrite of the highest order - to judge me on my decision to seek out the very best experts who explained their findings, discoveries, evidence & gave lectures which support the OP in his findings. Lawyers do it all the time in a court of law. It's how the truth is discovered.

You don't believe your being an atheist has anything to do with your denial of the evidence that overwhelmingly supports the biblical story of Noah and the flood? I strongly disagree.

I watched some of the video and, sadly, found it a waste of time. It focuses on evidence that supports it's premise but just ignores the massive amount of evidence that refutes it.

Some examples:
Coconino Sandstone - accepted in the geological community as a desert deposit, not a marine/flood feature
Grand Canyon limestone - limestone is a marine sediment created mainly by plankton, when forming today the process is very slow so a layer 1000' would take far longer than the duration of Noah's flood