The Value of Free Speech

[Asclepias]

Please explain in detail how I am a hypocrite. I will write an epic based on your hypocrisy in this thread.

I'm not the one trying to change the subject, you are and you have. See, there you go telling people to shut up. This plays right into the theme of this thread. The Chinese are trying to bar dissent, "shut up or we will punish you." You are nothing but a peon. You are below even the most clueless of human beings. It has been a colossal waste of my time debating you, you are hopelessly dense, woefully ignorant, and haplessly malinformed.

Look no further than your signature. It wholeheartedly supports my sentiment.

You have skipped from calling me names to claiming I have called native americans crazy to faking indignation to whining about us arguing. If you dont want to argue then shut up.

You parked yourself in this thread for the past few days and shut down any civil discourse going on. What is it you hope to accomplish? Oh wait, I get it, you're trying to punish us. What could I have possibly been thinking?

Sorry Temp. You shut down civil discourse with your name calling attack because you didnt like my opinion. Fuck you. If you want to insult I will do it as well if I feel so inclined. I wont stoop to lying like you do however. Convince me or point out why my opinion is wrong. If you cant do that shut up.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So you are ok that the Whites swindled Native American people out of their land? Good thing most Native Americans dont think like you.

Am I PK with it? No. But, as others have repetedly pointed out, the people that did that, and the people that got "swindled," are dead.

What does that have to do with it? The racism provided a rational for taking the land by any way necessary. If you are ok with that just say so.

Funny thing, whenever a chief signed a treaty that someone in the tribe disagreed with, nothing in the culture of that tribe obligated him to obey the treaty.

Nothing.

In fact, there was nothing in tribal culture that actually prevented anyone that wanted to call themselves a chief from doing so, even if no one followed him.

A lot of white settlers objected when a tribe refused to honor a signed treaty. They even felt swindled.

Funny how that doesn't matter to you, and you think I should be outraged and pretend that my ancestors were better than everyone else? Every ethnic/racial group swindled other groups, viewed them as enemies, and kept them as slaves. If we start getting outraged about things that happened before we were born we are going to end up being stupid. I am not stupid.

 

[Asclepias]

I'm going elsewhere for the night, you can argue a brick wall as you seem so adept in doing. Oh, but don't delude yourself into thinking this argument is over, its far from it.

Thats funny. i could have sworn it was over when I decided it was. If you want to argue you better bring some new material. Also have some sort of honor. if you start lying again I'm going to have to shut you down.

Peace

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You are correct. It doesnt matter what status the KKK is in. My point is to punish any public official or business person that advocates that type of thinking by calling them out and hurting them where they can feel it. In the pocket book.

If that was actually your point you would be demanding that harry Reid and Joe Biden be punished. Since you aren't, that is demonstrably not your point.

Stop trying to change the subject. You look weak when you do so. Lets stay on point. The KKK has an opinion that causes crimes to be committed against minorities. Everytime they do that they should be punished.

So do you, but I don't see you demanding that you get punished for your opinion.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Actually you cant read. Were did I say words were actions? You seem to enjoy lying. Their action is in speaking opinions that encourage people being racist. For that I get to hurt them financially or career wise if I don't do it illegally. You dont like it. Tough shit.

You don't even remember what you wrote now? Hint, it was in the post I quoted, which makes your lack of memory even more telling. It also explains why you keep insisting I said things I didn't.

You said you want to hold them accountable for their actions, even if their actions only involve expressing an opinion you don't like.

I guess my interpretation holds water then because no where have I said they should not be able to voice their opinion. I simply state they should not be immune from others voicing their opinions and dealing with the consequences created by their actions.

Thats incorrect. I said I want to punish them for espousing any opinion that is racist. Its pretty simple. A verb conveys actions. Espouse is a verb. How hard can it be for you to understand that?

Yeah, that is what you meant.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Look no further than your signature. It wholeheartedly supports my sentiment.

You have skipped from calling me names to claiming I have called native americans crazy to faking indignation to whining about us arguing. If you dont want to argue then shut up.

You parked yourself in this thread for the past few days and shut down any civil discourse going on. What is it you hope to accomplish? Oh wait, I get it, you're trying to punish us. What could I have possibly been thinking?

Sorry Temp. You shut down civil discourse with your name calling attack because you didnt like my opinion. Fuck you. If you want to insult I will do it as well if I feel so inclined. I wont stoop to lying like you do however. Convince me or point out why my opinion is wrong. If you cant do that shut up.

You were the one who introduced racism into the discussion. It had zero to do with free speech. You have been proven wrong a thousandfold times already. You are simply too ignorant to know when you're wrong, Asclepias. You are an airhead.

 

[Asclepias]

You parked yourself in this thread for the past few days and shut down any civil discourse going on. What is it you hope to accomplish? Oh wait, I get it, you're trying to punish us. What could I have possibly been thinking?

Sorry Temp. You shut down civil discourse with your name calling attack because you didnt like my opinion. Fuck you. If you want to insult I will do it as well if I feel so inclined. I wont stoop to lying like you do however. Convince me or point out why my opinion is wrong. If you cant do that shut up.

You were the one who introduced racism into the discussion. It had zero to do with free speech. You have been proven wrong a thousandfold times already. You are simply too ignorant to know when you're wrong, Asclepias. You are an airhead.

So what i mentioned racism. That was a minor point to illustrate my stance on punishing people that weren't PC. You don't dictate what I use to illustrate my point. Racism was introduced, as far as I recall, by the person talking about Strom Thurman. Stop lying before you get confused.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Sorry Temp. You shut down civil discourse with your name calling attack because you didnt like my opinion. Fuck you. If you want to insult I will do it as well if I feel so inclined. I wont stoop to lying like you do however. Convince me or point out why my opinion is wrong. If you cant do that shut up.

You were the one who introduced racism into the discussion. It had zero to do with free speech. You have been proven wrong a thousandfold times already. You are simply too ignorant to know when you're wrong, Asclepias. You are an airhead.

So what i mentioned racism. That was a minor point to illustrate my stance on punishing people that weren't PC. You don't dictate what I use to illustrate my point. Racism was introduced, as far as I recall, by the person talking about Strom Thurman. Stop lying before you get confused.

So what? What do you mean 'so what'? Some gall you have coming here with your discombobulated talking points. 'That was a minor point' my ass. You managed to derail the entire thread with it. I was dumb enough not to see it.

Ha! You weren't even paying attention to the discussion about Strom Thurmond, you didn't even spell his name right. You went off half cocked and and started spewing epithets about how "I will punish and destroy people who have a stupid and racist opinion." Stupid maybe to you perhaps. People have varying definitions of stupidity and of racism. But at any rate. I'm no liar. I am one of the more brutally honest members of this forum. Sometimes my honesty gets me into trouble, but I'd rather be honest to a fault, than to be at fault for being a liar.

Are we clear, bigmouth?

 

[Asclepias]

You were the one who introduced racism into the discussion. It had zero to do with free speech. You have been proven wrong a thousandfold times already. You are simply too ignorant to know when you're wrong, Asclepias. You are an airhead.

So what i mentioned racism. That was a minor point to illustrate my stance on punishing people that weren't PC. You don't dictate what I use to illustrate my point. Racism was introduced, as far as I recall, by the person talking about Strom Thurman. Stop lying before you get confused.

So what? What do you mean 'so what'? Some gall you have coming here with your discombobulated talking points. 'That was a minor point' my ass. You managed to derail the entire thread with it. I was dumb enough not to see it.

Ha! You weren't even paying attention to the discussion about Strom Thurmond, you didn't even spell his name right. You went off half cocked and and started spewing epithets about how "I will punish and destroy people who have a stupid and racist opinion." Stupid maybe to you perhaps. People have varying definitions of stupidity and of racism. But at any rate. I'm no liar. I am one of the more brutally honest members of this forum. Sometimes my honesty gets me into trouble, but I'd rather be honest to a fault, than to be at fault for being a liar.

Are we clear, bigmouth?

So what means... why is that the thing that sticks a bug up your ass? You don't dictate what I use to make my point. Somehow it bothers you I used the word racist. Why? In your mind disagreeing means derailing? I personally don't really like threads where everyone sits around patting each other on the back because they think they have the answers. I want someone to disagree (politely) and prove their point. I disagree with the notion PC is a bad thing. If you cant take that without devolving into insults sit out the debate. You made it worse by lying though. Why would I insult my own ancestors as you claim I did and even lied about pasting where I said they were crazy. Don't sit back now and claim you are honest. Do search on this thread and you wont find a post from me calling Native Americans crazy. You're a liar and simply because I don't agree with you. How totally sad.

 

[Mac1958]

.

Political Correctness = Strategic Hypersensitivity deployed specifically to put your target on the defensive, to intimidate, and to thereby control the conversation. Highly successful history.

Fortunately, the PC Police have overplayed their hand and the pushback has begun. It will take a while, but ultimately these people will have to actually defend their positions without PC as a crutch.

Too bad.

.

 

[TemplarKormac]

So what i mentioned racism. That was a minor point to illustrate my stance on punishing people that weren't PC. You don't dictate what I use to illustrate my point. Racism was introduced, as far as I recall, by the person talking about Strom Thurman. Stop lying before you get confused.

So what? What do you mean 'so what'? Some gall you have coming here with your discombobulated talking points. 'That was a minor point' my ass. You managed to derail the entire thread with it. I was dumb enough not to see it.

Ha! You weren't even paying attention to the discussion about Strom Thurmond, you didn't even spell his name right. You went off half cocked and and started spewing epithets about how "I will punish and destroy people who have a stupid and racist opinion." Stupid maybe to you perhaps. People have varying definitions of stupidity and of racism. But at any rate. I'm no liar. I am one of the more brutally honest members of this forum. Sometimes my honesty gets me into trouble, but I'd rather be honest to a fault, than to be at fault for being a liar.

Are we clear, bigmouth?

So what means... why is that the thing that sticks a bug up your ass? You don't dictate what I use to make my point. Somehow it bothers you I used the word racist. Why? In your mind disagreeing means derailing? I personally don't really like threads where everyone sits around patting each other on the back because they think they have the answers. I want someone to disagree (politely) and prove their point. I disagree with the notion PC is a bad thing. If you cant take that without devolving into insults sit out the debate. You made it worse by lying though. Why would I insult my own ancestors as you claim I did and even lied about pasting where I said they were crazy. Don't sit back now and claim you are honest. Do search on this thread and you wont find a post from me calling Native Americans crazy. You're a liar and simply because I don't agree with you. How totally sad.

You know, since when did I ever try to dictate your speech? You're the one saying that it should when it involves something you disagree with. I don't give a flying rat's backside if you say the word racist or not. Why? Because that is your first amendment right. Personally, I don't like people such as yourself who can do nothing but pat himself on the back because he lacks an argument. I disagreed with you politely more than once, but your rank inanity will drive even the most stubborn man to desperation.

And the rest of your post is... not intelligible. I won't argue with you any further. You accused my people of having "mental problems" so there you have it. I'm a liar because I have a different opinion than yours. I don't believe in destroying someone for having an undesirable opinion. I believe the First Amendment covers all speech, good or bad.

 

[Asclepias]

So what? What do you mean 'so what'? Some gall you have coming here with your discombobulated talking points. 'That was a minor point' my ass. You managed to derail the entire thread with it. I was dumb enough not to see it.

Ha! You weren't even paying attention to the discussion about Strom Thurmond, you didn't even spell his name right. You went off half cocked and and started spewing epithets about how "I will punish and destroy people who have a stupid and racist opinion." Stupid maybe to you perhaps. People have varying definitions of stupidity and of racism. But at any rate. I'm no liar. I am one of the more brutally honest members of this forum. Sometimes my honesty gets me into trouble, but I'd rather be honest to a fault, than to be at fault for being a liar.

Are we clear, bigmouth?

So what means... why is that the thing that sticks a bug up your ass? You don't dictate what I use to make my point. Somehow it bothers you I used the word racist. Why? In your mind disagreeing means derailing? I personally don't really like threads where everyone sits around patting each other on the back because they think they have the answers. I want someone to disagree (politely) and prove their point. I disagree with the notion PC is a bad thing. If you cant take that without devolving into insults sit out the debate. You made it worse by lying though. Why would I insult my own ancestors as you claim I did and even lied about pasting where I said they were crazy. Don't sit back now and claim you are honest. Do search on this thread and you wont find a post from me calling Native Americans crazy. You're a liar and simply because I don't agree with you. How totally sad.

You know, since when did I ever try to dictate your speech? You're the one saying that it should when it involves something you disagree with. I don't give a flying rat's backside if you say the word racist or not. Why? Because that is your first amendment right. Personally, I don't like people such as yourself who can do nothing but pat himself on the back because he lacks an argument. I disagreed with you politely more than once, but your rank inanity will drive even the most stubborn man to desperation.

And the rest of your post is... not intelligible. I won't argue with you any further. You accused my people of having "mental problems" so there you have it. I'm a liar because I have a different opinion than yours. I don't believe in destroying someone for having an undesirable opinion. I believe the First Amendment covers all speech, good or bad.

You tried to dictate my speech when you accused me of trying to derail the conversation with it even though it was a minor point in my argument. If you didn't give a rats ass why did you bring it up as an issue? Another lie huh? You insulted me a couple of times before I started to do the same. Another lie. Just because you cant convince me my position is wrong doesnt mean its inanity. It just means you lack the skills to present a convincing argument. Good thing you wont argue further because its stupid. You ought to do something about your lying problem.

Here is what I said.

So it only bothers you when someone that is not native american does it? I see. Do you see the ghettos as urban reservations? I do. The same mental conditions that exist on the reservations also exist in the ghettos. Fuck you and spare me your self righteousness please

Either way thats not calling anyone crazy. Since I am both Native American and Black that would mean I was insulting myself twice over.

 

[TemplarKormac]

So what means... why is that the thing that sticks a bug up your ass? You don't dictate what I use to make my point. Somehow it bothers you I used the word racist. Why? In your mind disagreeing means derailing? I personally don't really like threads where everyone sits around patting each other on the back because they think they have the answers. I want someone to disagree (politely) and prove their point. I disagree with the notion PC is a bad thing. If you cant take that without devolving into insults sit out the debate. You made it worse by lying though. Why would I insult my own ancestors as you claim I did and even lied about pasting where I said they were crazy. Don't sit back now and claim you are honest. Do search on this thread and you wont find a post from me calling Native Americans crazy. You're a liar and simply because I don't agree with you. How totally sad.

You know, since when did I ever try to dictate your speech? You're the one saying that it should when it involves something you disagree with. I don't give a flying rat's backside if you say the word racist or not. Why? Because that is your first amendment right. Personally, I don't like people such as yourself who can do nothing but pat himself on the back because he lacks an argument. I disagreed with you politely more than once, but your rank inanity will drive even the most stubborn man to desperation.

And the rest of your post is... not intelligible. I won't argue with you any further. You accused my people of having "mental problems" so there you have it. I'm a liar because I have a different opinion than yours. I don't believe in destroying someone for having an undesirable opinion. I believe the First Amendment covers all speech, good or bad.

You tried to dictate my speech when you accused me of trying to derail the conversation with it even though it was a minor point in my argument. If you didn't give a rats ass why did you bring it up as an issue? Another lie huh? You insulted me a couple of times before I started to do the same. Another lie. Just because you cant convince me my position is wrong doesnt mean its inanity. It just means you lack the skills to present a convincing argument. Good thing you wont argue further because its stupid. You ought to do something about your lying problem.

Here is what I said.

So it only bothers you when someone that is not native american does it? I see. Do you see the ghettos as urban reservations? I do. The same mental conditions that exist on the reservations also exist in the ghettos. Fuck you and spare me your self righteousness please

Either way that's not calling anyone crazy. Since I am both Native American and Black that would mean I was insulting myself twice over.

Just how long will you argue me, Asclpeias? You have been going and going for almost 4 days nonstop. After the beating [MENTION=23420]Quantum Windbag[/MENTION]: gave you, I'd thought you would have given up already. You're tenacious, but so am I. You'll grow so tired of me you'll eventually put me on your ignore list.

Accusing you of derailing this thread does not mean I tried to "dictate" your speech. I make no attempt to control speech anywhere on this website. You have a bad habit of putting words into people's mouths. In fact this is done in lieu of a factual argument.

Oh, so no wonder you wanted to talk about race. You are black. How pathetic. Just how gullible are you? To listen to all those lies about how your race is still being oppressed by the white man? About how you'll never make it on your own without the government? I pity you. I pity how you are being so haplessly misled by the same party that oppressed your ancestors. You unnatural noise.

But it's pretty convenient that you would say you're Native American and Black just now, and it took all of 46 pages and nearly 700 posts for you to do. But whatever. Frankly, I can make no convincing arguments to a foolish person such as yourself. I cannot convince someone who refuses to be convinced. You are overly stubborn and irrational. Your mind is incapable of handling such complex arguments as mine. You are encased in a cocoon of ignorance and naivete.

You keep calling me a liar, but I have yet seen evidence to indicate such. Guess that means you're the liar. I tire of mincing words with you, I am permanently adding you to my ignore list, and I shall reply to you at times of my own choosing. Fare thee well, useful idiot.

 

[Asclepias]

You know, since when did I ever try to dictate your speech? You're the one saying that it should when it involves something you disagree with. I don't give a flying rat's backside if you say the word racist or not. Why? Because that is your first amendment right. Personally, I don't like people such as yourself who can do nothing but pat himself on the back because he lacks an argument. I disagreed with you politely more than once, but your rank inanity will drive even the most stubborn man to desperation.

And the rest of your post is... not intelligible. I won't argue with you any further. You accused my people of having "mental problems" so there you have it. I'm a liar because I have a different opinion than yours. I don't believe in destroying someone for having an undesirable opinion. I believe the First Amendment covers all speech, good or bad.

You tried to dictate my speech when you accused me of trying to derail the conversation with it even though it was a minor point in my argument. If you didn't give a rats ass why did you bring it up as an issue? Another lie huh? You insulted me a couple of times before I started to do the same. Another lie. Just because you cant convince me my position is wrong doesnt mean its inanity. It just means you lack the skills to present a convincing argument. Good thing you wont argue further because its stupid. You ought to do something about your lying problem.

Here is what I said.

So it only bothers you when someone that is not native american does it? I see. Do you see the ghettos as urban reservations? I do. The same mental conditions that exist on the reservations also exist in the ghettos. Fuck you and spare me your self righteousness please

Either way that's not calling anyone crazy. Since I am both Native American and Black that would mean I was insulting myself twice over.

Just how long will you argue me, Asclpeias? You have been going and going for almost 4 days nonstop. After the beating [MENTION=23420]Quantum Windbag[/MENTION]: gave you, I'd thought you would have given up already. You're tenacious, but so am I. You'll grow so tired of me you'll eventually put me on your ignore list.

Accusing you of derailing this thread does not mean I tried to "dictate" your speech. I make no attempt to control speech anywhere on this website. You have a bad habit of putting words into people's mouths. In fact this is done in lieu of a factual argument.

Oh, so no wonder you wanted to talk about race. You are black. How pathetic. Just how gullible are you? To listen to all those lies about how your race is still being oppressed by the white man? About how you'll never make it on your own without the government? I pity you. I pity how you are being so haplessly misled by the same party that oppressed your ancestors. You unnatural noise.

But it's pretty convenient that you would say you're Native American and Black just now, and it took all of 46 pages and nearly 700 posts for you to do. But whatever. Frankly, I can make no convincing arguments to a foolish person such as yourself. I cannot convince someone who refuses to be convinced. You are overly stubborn and irrational. Your mind is incapable of handling such complex arguments as mine. You are encased in a cocoon of ignorance and naivete.

You keep calling me a liar, but I have yet seen evidence to indicate such. Guess that means you're the liar. I tire of mincing words with you, I am permanently adding you to my ignore list, and I shall reply to you at times of my own choosing. Fare thee well, useful idiot.

The evidence you are a liar is presented in several of the post prior to this. You said I insulted "your" people without knowing I was part Native American. You said I called them crazy. You lied. How more obvious can it be?

i've gone on for days? I think you mean "please stop disagreeing with me and let me have the last word". I couldn't go on for days unless I was talking to someone. Are you going to lie and say you weren't going on for days as well? You and Quantum even tried tag teaming me to force me to capitulate. Wont happen clown.

I was unaware I had to state my racial makeup in order to be fair. Sorry you got caught in your lie saying I insulted native americans when thats part of my racial makeup. You are hardheaded but you will learn you cant force a more intelligent person to adopt your simpleminded thought processes.

LOL at you adding me to your ignore list after swearing I would first. That confirms you are a weak disgrace to your people. I wont ever add you to my ignore list because you simply have no affect on me either way..

 

[PrometheusBound]

Are you really that stupid Quantum Windbag?

Definition of Boycott:

It is a punishment when a government does it, for example, when the US boycotted South Africa, but you claim to oppose that, which means you are either lying, or stupid, or both.

Frankly, I am pretty sure its both.

Quantum stop it right now. You are coming apart at the seams. The definition is clear. Boycotting is punishment no matter who does it. There is no shame in admitting you didn't know but there is ignorance in trying to deny it.

Stop trying to dodge the issue. If you can't quote where I opposed some US boycott of South Africa will you admit you are a liar?

Boycotting and protesting stupid racist remarks by public officials and business people is the right of the public protected under the 1rst amendment. If the person making the stupid racist remarks looses their livelihood I will be the loudest person clapping. You can call it the PC police all you want. That's what your handlers want you to believe.

Bill Maher lost his job because of it, but quickly got re-hired and has been doing great ever since. The protests probably enhanced his career

 

[PrometheusBound]

Keep up Temple. The person that originally voiced the opinion that caused people to burn down your home. In your case, the government voicing their opinion that Native Americans are savages thus unfit to own land. This results in the takeover of native american lands. Is it wrong for a native american to do their best to paint the government in a bad light?

The Indian that lost his home? Maybe not. The great great great great grandchild who never met that Indian and who never lost anything? Yeah, he needs to get over it. IT didn't happen to him and he has no claim on that righteous indignation.

But he did lose something I would have thought would have been obvious to even the clueless. He no longer has the land his forefathers would have passed on to him. Anyway your interpretation of the question is way off base. I'm talking present tense.

The useless savages were in perpetual tribal warfare, so some other Indian tribe would certainly have taken his ancestors' land if the Whites had been forbidden to do so. The Whites were the tribe that entered the competition late, built something lasting, and have deserved permanent ownership of America, especially since they weren't natural-born killers too stupid to build anything of value.

 

[PrometheusBound]

Indians didn't believe anyone owned the land. On top of that, they routinely fought over it, with stronger tribes pushing weak ones out of better areas. If the white man hadn't taken the land, there is no reason to believe that they would have kept it.

Even if they did believe in private ownership of land, and managed to hold onto it, there is no reason to believe that one person would have the right to all that land. Even in Europe, which had laws that protected property owners, most of the descendents of any particular property owner don't have land.

So you are ok that the Whites swindled Native American people out of their land? Good thing most Native Americans dont think like you.

You do realize that the myth of the Noble Savage was just that: a myth. Indians were technologically inferior, but just as politically savvy as the Europeans and had no problem trying to get one over on the pale faces in the process, nor did they have any problem killing other Indians for any number of resources.

There are numerous accounts of English settlers negotiation in good faith for access to a piece of land belonging to Tribe A only to find out after a massacre that Tribe B really claimed said land. Never mind Indians choosing side in any of the European conflicts in North America like Queen Anne's War or the French-Indian War or the American Revolution in the hopes of bettering their own political positions.

Sorry the Indians couldn't beat the Europeans technologically (despite sitting on untapped natural resources) but that's just how it goes when one culture is up against another.

Indians are sore-loser crybabies descended from hordes of raiding criminal bands. First they were driven north of Mongolia, then they came to America as fugitives. Here they continued their stupid, savage, and self-destructive ways. No real American should do anything but laugh at their Hate Whitey pity party. They are an obsolete species living on borrowed time.