The unsustainability of "green" energy

[P@triot]

Fucking dumb comments. Outright lies and half truths are all these luddites have.

Snowflake....what are you talking about?!? There are no "half-truths" here. Seattle just installed three wind turbines at a cost of $107,000. Because they generate a laughable and pitiful $1.39 per day in electricity (or a pathetic $42 per month), it will take 53 years to break even on these idiotic devices. And that's only if they don't need to be replaced or require no maintenance (which we all know is impossible).

The "green energy" is an idiotic pipe dream. Some day it will be a great solution, but we are still many decades away from it being a viable energy source. The left always embraces failed ideologies, technologies, etc.

#GreenFail: Taxpayers Foot $107K Bill for Wind Turbines That Don’t Work

You are basing your entirety of wind not working on three ten foot tall turbines used for aesthetics in a park. Next thing you'll be saying that Guitars don't really make music cause you saw one on the wall at a hard rock and it didn't play right buttercup?

Wait....wait....wait. You're desperate argument Slash is that Seattle paid $107,000 for wind turbines they expected not to work - for aesthetics?

Holy shit........I just........I can't....

 

[P@triot]

And why are you saying it's the left that is embracing it? This is being embraced by Texas, Nebraska, North Dakota, Kansas, Wyoming, Iowa, South Dakota, Idaho, and Oklahoma. About as far to the right as states get.

Hey dumbass? You do realize that idiot progressives live in every state in the U.S., don't you? There are Democrat Mayors in Texas because some cities are dominated by progressives.

You are scary stupid. Or desperate. Or both.

 

[P@triot]

We import about 5 million barrels of oil/natural gas more than we export. Meaning our cash flow is heading right out the door, and a big chunk of it is making a lot of Islamic ruled countries VERY happy and very powerful. If we can make some of that up by finding home built energy sources.

Yeah - because idiot progressives block oil production. Barack Insane Obama placed a moratorium on offshore drilling and blocked the Keystone Pipeline.

 

[WinterBorn]

Green energy is not cost effective right now. But one sure way to make sure it is never cost effective is to demand that it be so right off the bat. The improvements have been huge.

And using oil as the basis for our energy needs is not sustainable either. There is a finite amount of oil. It will run out. To ignore that is to doom the world as we know it.

 

[bripat9643]

Green energy is not cost effective right now. But one sure way to make sure it is never cost effective is to demand that it be so right off the bat. The improvements have been huge.

And using oil as the basis for our energy needs is not sustainable either. There is a finite amount of oil. It will run out. To ignore that is to doom the world as we know it.

Yeah because we know oil and coal weren't cost effective the first time they were tried . . . . . . er, no, that's not right.

 

[WinterBorn]

Green energy is not cost effective right now. But one sure way to make sure it is never cost effective is to demand that it be so right off the bat. The improvements have been huge.

And using oil as the basis for our energy needs is not sustainable either. There is a finite amount of oil. It will run out. To ignore that is to doom the world as we know it.

Yeah because we know oil and coal weren't cost effective the first time they were tried . . . . . . er, no, that's not right.

Oil & coal burn. That is the sum total of it. But surely you are not claiming the efficiency of fossil fuels has not improved?

The fact us that we have the fuels for nuclear power to last for centuries. Wind, solar and other sustainable sources can last even longer. Fossil fuels will not last centuries.

 

[P@triot]

Green energy is not cost effective right now. But one sure way to make sure it is never cost effective is to demand that it be so right off the bat. The improvements have been huge.

I don't demand that green energy be "cost effective" right now. I demand that government stop throwing money at it unconstitutionally. If Al Gore and his pals want to develop it - that's on them.

And using oil as the basis for our energy needs is not sustainable either. There is a finite amount of oil. It will run out. To ignore that is to doom the world as we know it.

Oil doesn't run our energy sector chief (it runs automobiles). Coal, natural gas, and nuclear run our energy sector. And the earth is constantly making natural gas as it breaks down materials. It is not only infinite, it is imperative that we use it. And burning it is very clean.

 

[bripat9643]

Green energy is not cost effective right now. But one sure way to make sure it is never cost effective is to demand that it be so right off the bat. The improvements have been huge.

And using oil as the basis for our energy needs is not sustainable either. There is a finite amount of oil. It will run out. To ignore that is to doom the world as we know it.

Yeah because we know oil and coal weren't cost effective the first time they were tried . . . . . . er, no, that's not right.

Oil & coal burn. That is the sum total of it. But surely you are not claiming the efficiency of fossil fuels has not improved?

The fact us that we have the fuels for nuclear power to last for centuries. Wind, solar and other sustainable sources can last even longer. Fossil fuels will not last centuries.

Too bad the greenies are against nuclear. Wind and solar will never practical to power and advanced industrial economy. The best plan is to use fossil fuels until fusion comes online. That would happen a lot sooner if they took all the money the government spends on so-called "green energy" and devoted it to fusion research.

 

[P@triot]

And using oil as the basis for our energy needs is not sustainable either. There is a finite amount of oil. It will run out. To ignore that is to doom the world as we know it.

And not for nothing...but there is no "finite amount". This massive planet is constantly making more of it.

Over millions of years, layer after layer of sediment and other plants and bacteria were formed. Stage 2 - As they became buried ever deeper, heat and pressure began to rise. The amount of pressure and the degree of heat, along with the type of biomass, determined if the material became oil or natural gas.

Adventures in Energy

 

[WinterBorn]

And using oil as the basis for our energy needs is not sustainable either. There is a finite amount of oil. It will run out. To ignore that is to doom the world as we know it.

And not for nothing...but there is no "finite amount". This massive planet is constantly making more of it.

Over millions of years, layer after layer of sediment and other plants and bacteria were formed. Stage 2 - As they became buried ever deeper, heat and pressure began to rise. The amount of pressure and the degree of heat, along with the type of biomass, determined if the material became oil or natural gas.

Adventures in Energy

Yes, fossil fuels are being formed all the time. But not at the rate at which we consume them.

 

[Old Rocks]

Green energy is not cost effective right now. But one sure way to make sure it is never cost effective is to demand that it be so right off the bat. The improvements have been huge.

I don't demand that green energy be "cost effective" right now. I demand that government stop throwing money at it unconstitutionally. If Al Gore and his pals want to develop it - that's on them.

And using oil as the basis for our energy needs is not sustainable either. There is a finite amount of oil. It will run out. To ignore that is to doom the world as we know it.

Oil doesn't run our energy sector chief (it runs automobiles). Coal, natural gas, and nuclear run our energy sector. And the earth is constantly making natural gas as it breaks down materials. It is not only infinite, it is imperative that we use it. And burning it is very clean.

Well, dumb fuck, demand all you want, and the utilities that are putting up the windmills will just ignore you. It is economics that is driving the increase in wind and solar. If the government subsidies stopped tomorrow, the installation of wind and solar might slow for a year or two. But, as the prices continue to drop, then the construction of the alternative energy will pick up again, and more coal plants will close down.

 

[anotherlife]

Sustainable green energy is in space. Too bad the liberals that push for green energy also push for the demise of space technologies.

 

[Old Rocks]

Why in space? We need the energy here on earth. And we can easily get it. Between wind and solar, with grid scale storage, we can more than supply all the energy needs of this planet.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Solar power satellites. Plenty of aluminum and silicon on the Moon.

 

[ScienceRocks]

So the chinese are stupid?

China installed record 24.4GW of solar in first-half of 2017

24.4GW of solar in the first-half of 2017, a new year-on-year record, 9% above last years record installation figures.

Recently, independent industry advisory firm AECEA noted that China PV installations in the second quarter of 2017 could reach between 16-17GW, pushing first half year figures to a new record high of over 24GW, compared to around 21GW in the prior year period.

Total installed solar PV power generation capacity reached 101.82GW, according to CPIA, which included 84.39GW classified as of utility-scale PV and 14.73GW classified as distributed PV.

AECEA also noted that China was just around 3GW away from its 13th Five-Year-Plan (2016-2020) target of reaching cumulative installations of 105GW.

 

[Slash]

Too bad the greenies are against nuclear. Wind and solar will never practical to power and advanced industrial economy. The best plan is to use fossil fuels until fusion comes online. That would happen a lot sooner if they took all the money the government spends on so-called "green energy" and devoted it to fusion research.

Not really, the green subsidy/tax breaks are a drop in the bucket compared to what oil/gas industry get. And why isn't wind/solar practical? It's actually hugely practical. No need for massive transportation of power sources to the energy plant. That alone makes it SO MUCH MORE practical.

 

[Slash]

Well, dumb fuck, demand all you want, and the utilities that are putting up the windmills will just ignore you. It is economics that is driving the increase in wind and solar. If the government subsidies stopped tomorrow, the installation of wind and solar might slow for a year or two. But, as the prices continue to drop, then the construction of the alternative energy will pick up again, and more coal plants will close down.

Do you mean cut all subsidies and tax breaks? Because unsubsidized vs. unsubsidized, forbes did a breakdown and including building, maintaining, etc, wind energy is now the least expensive.

Granted we like subsidies, so we keep propping up gas/oil.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Too bad the greenies are against nuclear. Wind and solar will never practical to power and advanced industrial economy. The best plan is to use fossil fuels until fusion comes online. That would happen a lot sooner if they took all the money the government spends on so-called "green energy" and devoted it to fusion research.

Not really, the green subsidy/tax breaks are a drop in the bucket compared to what oil/gas industry get. And why isn't wind/solar practical? It's actually hugely practical. No need for massive transportation of power sources to the energy plant. That alone makes it SO MUCH MORE practical.

Not really, the green subsidy/tax breaks are a drop in the bucket compared to what oil/gas industry get.

The government mails checks to producers/users of oil and gas to keep the price?
Tell me more!
Maybe list some of these tax breaks, if you can?

 

[Slash]

Besides building the rail systems to remote area's to the cost of what would be hundreds of billions today to provide the infrastructure to make coal/oil usable...

Maybe you've been under a rock, but Trump has been touting how he'd do it with increasing use of public lands for oil/gas (remember those lease rates haven't gone up since 1987, so yes, they are getting a HECK of a deal there).

SInce you seem to be rather uneducated on the subject, I'll give you a few to look at:

Corporate tax exemption for Master Limited Partnerships (MLPs, 3/4 are fossil fuel companies)
Deduction for intangible drilling costs
Lost/reduced royalties from leasing of federal lands for onshore and offshore drilling
Percentage depletion allowance –independent producers can deduct 14-15% of large investment costs from income taxes*
Domestic manufacturing deduction – allows oil producers to claim a tax break intended for U.S. manufacturers to prevent job outsourcing*
Carbon dioxide (CO2) sequestration credit – tax credit of $20 per ton of CO2 sequestered (largely from coal plants); $10 per ton for CO2 used for enhanced oil recovery
Exemption from passive loss limitation – exempts investors from limits on deductions of losses from oil and gas activities in which they are not directly involved
Foreign tax credit ($15.3 billion)
Credit for production of non-conventional fuels ($14.1 billion)

Over half a trillion has gone into fossil fuels since 1950.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Besides building the rail systems to remote area's to the cost of what would be hundreds of billions today to provide the infrastructure to make coal/oil usable...

Maybe you've been under a rock, but Trump has been touting how he'd do it with increasing use of public lands for oil/gas (remember those lease rates haven't gone up since 1987, so yes, they are getting a HECK of a deal there).

SInce you seem to be rather uneducated on the subject, I'll give you a few to look at:

Corporate tax exemption for Master Limited Partnerships (MLPs, 3/4 are fossil fuel companies)
Deduction for intangible drilling costs
Lost/reduced royalties from leasing of federal lands for onshore and offshore drilling
Percentage depletion allowance –independent producers can deduct 14-15% of large investment costs from income taxes*
Domestic manufacturing deduction – allows oil producers to claim a tax break intended for U.S. manufacturers to prevent job outsourcing*
Carbon dioxide (CO2) sequestration credit – tax credit of $20 per ton of CO2 sequestered (largely from coal plants); $10 per ton for CO2 used for enhanced oil recovery
Exemption from passive loss limitation – exempts investors from limits on deductions of losses from oil and gas activities in which they are not directly involved
Foreign tax credit ($15.3 billion)
Credit for production of non-conventional fuels ($14.1 billion)

Over half a trillion has gone into fossil fuels since 1950.

Corporate tax exemption for Master Limited Partnerships (MLPs, 3/4 are fossil fuel companies)

The partners pay the tax.

Deduction for intangible drilling costs

All businesses get to deduct their expenses.

Lost/reduced royalties from leasing of federal lands for onshore and offshore drilling

So raise the royalties, if you feel 12.5% or 18.75% isn't enough.

Percentage depletion allowance

Like depreciation.

Domestic manufacturing deduction – allows oil producers to claim a tax break intended for U.S. manufacturers to prevent job outsourcing*

Not exclusive to fossil fuels.

Carbon dioxide (CO2) sequestration credit – tax credit of $20 per ton of CO2 sequestered (largely from coal plants); $10 per ton for CO2 used for enhanced oil recovery

Eliminate all the "green" subsidy waste of money rules.

Foreign tax credit ($15.3 billion)

Not exclusive to fossil fuels.

Credit for production of non-conventional fuels ($14.1 billion)

Eliminate all the "green" subsidy waste of money rules.

Over half a trillion has gone into fossil fuels since 1950

How much was actually a subsidy versus typical business deductions?
Based on your list, very little.