The unsustainability of "green" energy

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why? not all energy gets the same tax credits.

Sure. A wind company deducts employee expenses and materials used to create turbines. An oil company deducts employee expenses and material to build rigs. And those are deductions, not tax credits.

You buy a gasoline automobile, you don't get a tax credit. I buy an electric car, I do

That's a subsidy to the electric car company.

Nope, it's exactly the same as your own example. Just switched the two sides. Gas cars aren't made the same was as electric cars, just like oil for electricity isn't made the same way as renewables. It's the exact same situation.

And we haven't even gotten to the tax deferment for oil companies. What are we now? Biggest 20 have 175 billion in unpaid taxes that they've deferred with an interest rate of 0%. How much does that one save? Why don't all industries get that? Can my business just say "we will pay our taxes in 20 years of this same exact amount with no interest".

Look, it's not even worth it. The intangible drilling allowance and special percentage depletion allowance are two of the biggest wins for oil that is not shared across all industries.

Nope, it's exactly the same as your own example.

Both businesses get to deduct the expenses they incur running their business.

Gas cars aren't made the same was as electric cars, just like oil for electricity isn't made the same way as renewables.

I agree, gas cars and oil don't get subsidies like solar power, wind power and electric cars do.

Sounds like you don't understand the definition of subsidy.

noun: subsidy; plural noun: subsidies

1. 1.
   a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive.

And we haven't even gotten to the tax deferment for oil companies. What are we now? Biggest 20 have 175 billion in unpaid taxes that they've deferred with an interest rate of 0%.

Link?

The intangible drilling allowance and special percentage depletion allowance are two of the biggest wins for oil that is not shared across all industries.

Mining companies also get to use depletion and rightly so.
Break out the components of intangible drilling allowance and explain why each part should not be deductible.
I'll be happy to discuss in detail.

 

[Slash]

Both businesses get to deduct the expenses they incur running their business.

Yes and oil/gas get specific benefits that increase their tax deductions that other businesses do not receive. Which you keep saying is a subsidy when Wind or Solar does that.


I agree, gas cars and oil don't get subsidies like solar power, wind power and electric cars do.

They do, just DIFFERENT ones, as we've both stated.


Sounds like you don't understand the definition of subsidy.

noun: subsidy; plural noun: subsidies

1. 1.
   a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive.

That's fine. call it what you want. If you get told you don't have to pay 1 million in taxes that someone else does, that's not a subsidy by that definition.

Link?
Tax-Advantaged U.S. Oil and Gas Companies Reap Huge Gains

Mining companies also get to use depletion and rightly so.
Break out the components of intangible drilling allowance and explain why each part should not be deductible.
I'll be happy to discuss in detail.

Mining companies. OK, you've got one industry on board. They get the benefit as well. What other industries can get that kind of deferment? What other industries can claim their industry equivalent? Why not just use the normal tax code which covers that? Why have these specific rules that increase the tax benefits just for this one industry. Why does oil get these breaks for over 100 years that are specifically written for oil only and other industries don't get the same break?

You really think Oil and gas industries are the biggest morons in the history of the US don't you? I mean they spend all this money lobbying for these specific tax breaks for their industry which get them nothing in return.


Look, I get it, you are sticking with this. Whatever. You haven't proven that those tax breaks are given across other industries. You are just trying to talk in circles now and return the burden of proof to me to prove your side which I will let you do but you know that isn't there.

 

[bripat9643]

Whatever your business buys is an expense that they can deduct from their revenue, whether it's an electric car or a gasoline car.

No. That's why they have SPECIFIC tax codes ONLY for reductions that the oil industry gets and others don't. If you think it's all the same, why not repeal those ones that focus specifically on the oil industry and go with just taxing profits?

Other companies can't write off a 15% loss when they only lost 2%..

That's the entire point here.



Look, you really are trying to say that oil industry spends hundreds of millions lobbying these tax bills but somehow never get anything out of it??? Come on...

Profits are defined as revenue minus expenses, so you're right back to the problem of defining what legitimate expenses are. All the laws you are talking about are where the government defines what is legitimate. Obviously, Drilling a well is an expense. Should that be treated the same as buying a Caterpillar tractor? What if it's a dry hole? Why should the oil company have to expense that over a period of years instead of immediately since it produces no revenue? These issues get very complicated, which is one reason the tax code is so complex, but your claims of trillions of dollars in "subsidies" is obvious bullshit.

 

[danielpalos]

Don't get me wrong - "green" energy is a great concept. But so is cold fusion, automobiles that run on water, and a world without wars. Unfortunately, all of them are absurd pipe-dreams at this time.

The problem with "green" energy is the cost/benefit ratio. You have to spend millions of dollars to get the energy equivalent of a AAA battery (I'm exaggerating obviously but sadly not by a whole lot). Which makes it an unsustainable business venture. The federal government illegally invested half a billion dollars into Solyndra and they still went bankrupt.

Now, the world's largest renewable energy developer is also on the verge of bankruptcy as well. The government needs to get out of the green energy business and allow the private sector to fund all research and development. We're $19 trillion in debt because of illegal nonsense like that, and we can't afford to keep betting on a loser. Some day, technology will advance to the point where green energy will be a viable and brilliant solution. But that time is not now and pumping billions of dollars a year for over 4 decades now has yielded no ROI (and even if it had, it is still unconstitutional and that is all that matters).

World's largest renewable energy developer on verge of bankruptcy

Nothing to do with Green; just lousy management strategy.

SunEdison has had an aggressive acquisition history, but those buyouts have left it with $11 billion in debt, Reuters reported.

 

[anotherlife]

Why in space? We need the energy here on earth. And we can easily get it. Between wind and solar, with grid scale storage, we can more than supply all the energy needs of this planet.

No because they all prove to be unsustainable without non renewable energy backup. Even at their full capacity they break even only by government subsidies.

However, engaging in one of the fields of forbidden science, such as beams or wave transport, who knows, it may be transported to earth, from the unlimited supply of space.

 

[P@triot]

Nothing to do with Green; just lousy management strategy.

Nobody knows how to deny reality, science, facts, or the truth like Danny here. Good grief. Daniel - you don't have the slightest concept about "management strategy".

Green energy costs an unimaginable fortune and produces the energy equivalent of a AAA battery. Ergo, it's a product nobody wants. I'm not paying $170,000 for solar panels when I'll die long before I'll ever spend $170,000 on my energy bills.

You uneducated progressives would understand that if you understood basic economics and concepts such as ROI.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Both businesses get to deduct the expenses they incur running their business.

Yes and oil/gas get specific benefits that increase their tax deductions that other businesses do not receive. Which you keep saying is a subsidy when Wind or Solar does that.


I agree, gas cars and oil don't get subsidies like solar power, wind power and electric cars do.

They do, just DIFFERENT ones, as we've both stated.


Sounds like you don't understand the definition of subsidy.

noun: subsidy; plural noun: subsidies

1. 1.
   a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive.

That's fine. call it what you want. If you get told you don't have to pay 1 million in taxes that someone else does, that's not a subsidy by that definition.

Link?
Tax-Advantaged U.S. Oil and Gas Companies Reap Huge Gains

Mining companies also get to use depletion and rightly so.
Break out the components of intangible drilling allowance and explain why each part should not be deductible.
I'll be happy to discuss in detail.

Mining companies. OK, you've got one industry on board. They get the benefit as well. What other industries can get that kind of deferment? What other industries can claim their industry equivalent? Why not just use the normal tax code which covers that? Why have these specific rules that increase the tax benefits just for this one industry. Why does oil get these breaks for over 100 years that are specifically written for oil only and other industries don't get the same break?

You really think Oil and gas industries are the biggest morons in the history of the US don't you? I mean they spend all this money lobbying for these specific tax breaks for their industry which get them nothing in return.


Look, I get it, you are sticking with this. Whatever. You haven't proven that those tax breaks are given across other industries. You are just trying to talk in circles now and return the burden of proof to me to prove your side which I will let you do but you know that isn't there.

If you get told you don't have to pay 1 million in taxes that someone else does, that's not a subsidy by that definition.

That would be a sum of money granted by the government to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive. Subsidy.

Mining companies. OK, you've got one industry on board. They get the benefit as well. What other industries can get that kind of deferment?

What other industries buy something, oil field or mine, for instance, and extract a portion (deplete) that purchase over time?

What other industries can claim their industry equivalent

Oil company buys a well with a 6 year expected useful life, a farmer buys a combine with a 6 year expected useful life.
They both get to write down their investment over that time.

It's not fair!!! Oil companies don't get to write off farm equipment. LOL!

Why have these specific rules that increase the tax benefits just for this one industry.

Specific circumstance, natural resource deposit depleted over time, specific schedule for writing down that depletion for that specific industry.

You really think Oil and gas industries are the biggest morons in the history of the US don't you?

No. I do think people whining about typical tax deductions are pretty stupid though.

You haven't proven that those tax breaks are given across other industries.

Why would Google get a depletion allowance? Do they buy a natural resource that is depleted over time?
Why would Facebook write off intangible drilling costs? Zuckie drilling something?

 

[Slash]

That would be a sum of money granted by the government to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive. Subsidy.

THank you. We agree.





What other industries buy something, oil field or mine, for instance, and extract a portion (deplete) that purchase over time?

All sorts do. Any resource company does. Happens with water rights. My company has plants and equipment that have depreciation schedules that are written off. Nobody gets that kind of deal that you've shown they make specifically for oil.



Oil company buys a well with a 6 year expected useful life, a farmer buys a combine with a 6 year expected useful life.
They both get to write down their investment over that time.

It's not fair!!! Oil companies don't get to write off farm equipment. LOL!

Great choice. Show me that farm depreciation laws that they lobbied for. Show me that a farmer can buy fertilizer, store it and not even use it, but gets to write it off at a tax exemption as he did use it.


Specific circumstance, natural resource deposit depleted over time, specific schedule for writing down that depletion for that specific industry.

And like you say the advantage that they get is better than others. Thus a subsidy. Thanks


No. I do think people whining about typical tax deductions are pretty stupid though.

Not typical. As you've shown you've been unable to find their counterparts across other industries. Thus by your definition... a subsidy.

You haven't proven that those tax breaks are given across other industries.

Why would Google get a depletion allowance? Do they buy a natural resource that is depleted over time?
Why would Facebook write off intangible drilling costs? Zuckie drilling something?

Google would use the standard tax law, same as facebook. If they bought a building, they would not get that depreciation deal. If they bought processors, they would not be able to just write them off unless they were actually using them. It's a benefit specifically for the oil industry.

You know what. I don't even know why I am bothering with your circular logic. Take it up with the Congressional Budget Office that testified before the Subcommittee on Energy of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology that in 2013 alone, fossil fuels got 3.2 billion dollars in subsidies. Take it up with the actual people that gave them the subsidies that they are full of it and don't know what they are talking about.

Explain to them how you of all people are in the know moreso than the people who ACTUALLY GRANTED THE SUBSIDIES.

 

[bripat9643]

That would be a sum of money granted by the government to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive. Subsidy.

THank you. We agree.





What other industries buy something, oil field or mine, for instance, and extract a portion (deplete) that purchase over time?

All sorts do. Any resource company does. Happens with water rights. My company has plants and equipment that have depreciation schedules that are written off. Nobody gets that kind of deal that you've shown they make specifically for oil.



Oil company buys a well with a 6 year expected useful life, a farmer buys a combine with a 6 year expected useful life.
They both get to write down their investment over that time.

It's not fair!!! Oil companies don't get to write off farm equipment. LOL!

Great choice. Show me that farm depreciation laws that they lobbied for. Show me that a farmer can buy fertilizer, store it and not even use it, but gets to write it off at a tax exemption as he did use it.


Specific circumstance, natural resource deposit depleted over time, specific schedule for writing down that depletion for that specific industry.

And like you say the advantage that they get is better than others. Thus a subsidy. Thanks


No. I do think people whining about typical tax deductions are pretty stupid though.

Not typical. As you've shown you've been unable to find their counterparts across other industries. Thus by your definition... a subsidy.

You haven't proven that those tax breaks are given across other industries.

Why would Google get a depletion allowance? Do they buy a natural resource that is depleted over time?
Why would Facebook write off intangible drilling costs? Zuckie drilling something?

Google would use the standard tax law, same as facebook. If they bought a building, they would not get that depreciation deal. If they bought processors, they would not be able to just write them off unless they were actually using them. It's a benefit specifically for the oil industry.

You know what. I don't even know why I am bothering with your circular logic. Take it up with the Congressional Budget Office that testified before the Subcommittee on Energy of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology that in 2013 alone, fossil fuels got 3.2 billion dollars in subsidies. Take it up with the actual people that gave them the subsidies that they are full of it and don't know what they are talking about.

Explain to them how you of all people are in the know moreso than the people who ACTUALLY GRANTED THE SUBSIDIES.

They didn't count drilling costs as a "subsidy" as you're doing. Nor did they count most of the other things you can't as a subsidy.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That would be a sum of money granted by the government to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive. Subsidy.

THank you. We agree.





What other industries buy something, oil field or mine, for instance, and extract a portion (deplete) that purchase over time?

All sorts do. Any resource company does. Happens with water rights. My company has plants and equipment that have depreciation schedules that are written off. Nobody gets that kind of deal that you've shown they make specifically for oil.



Oil company buys a well with a 6 year expected useful life, a farmer buys a combine with a 6 year expected useful life.
They both get to write down their investment over that time.

It's not fair!!! Oil companies don't get to write off farm equipment. LOL!

Great choice. Show me that farm depreciation laws that they lobbied for. Show me that a farmer can buy fertilizer, store it and not even use it, but gets to write it off at a tax exemption as he did use it.


Specific circumstance, natural resource deposit depleted over time, specific schedule for writing down that depletion for that specific industry.

And like you say the advantage that they get is better than others. Thus a subsidy. Thanks


No. I do think people whining about typical tax deductions are pretty stupid though.

Not typical. As you've shown you've been unable to find their counterparts across other industries. Thus by your definition... a subsidy.

You haven't proven that those tax breaks are given across other industries.

Why would Google get a depletion allowance? Do they buy a natural resource that is depleted over time?
Why would Facebook write off intangible drilling costs? Zuckie drilling something?

Google would use the standard tax law, same as facebook. If they bought a building, they would not get that depreciation deal. If they bought processors, they would not be able to just write them off unless they were actually using them. It's a benefit specifically for the oil industry.

You know what. I don't even know why I am bothering with your circular logic. Take it up with the Congressional Budget Office that testified before the Subcommittee on Energy of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology that in 2013 alone, fossil fuels got 3.2 billion dollars in subsidies. Take it up with the actual people that gave them the subsidies that they are full of it and don't know what they are talking about.

Explain to them how you of all people are in the know moreso than the people who ACTUALLY GRANTED THE SUBSIDIES.

THank you. We agree.

You agree that green energy gets actual subsidies? That's great. Glad I could help open your eyes.

Happens with water rights.

Then what are you whining about?

Nobody gets that kind of deal that you've shown they make specifically for oil.

What oil write offs are unavailable for water drillers?

Great choice. Show me that farm depreciation laws that they lobbied for.

Farms depreciate equipment like any other industry.

Google would use the standard tax law, same as facebook. If they bought a building, they would not get that depreciation deal.

You think Google and Facebook don't depreciate plant and equipment? LOL!

If they bought processors, they would not be able to just write them off unless they were actually using them.

What are oil companies not using that they get to write off? Be specific.

Show me that a farmer can buy fertilizer, store it and not even use it, but gets to write it off at a tax exemption as he did use it.

Show me what oil companies do that's similar to your mythical farmer.

And like you say the advantage that they get is better than others.

No, it's exactly the same.

Not typical. As you've shown you've been unable to find their counterparts across other industries.

Yes, typical. A company could buy logging rights. Write them down as they harvest the trees.
Unless you don't think logging companies should get to deduct their expenses either?

It's a benefit specifically for the oil industry.

Only because it's an expense specific to the oil industry.

Take it up with the Congressional Budget Office that testified before the Subcommittee on Energy of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology that in 2013 alone, fossil fuels got 3.2 billion dollars in subsidies.

Wait, you're saying someone in Congress doesn't know what a subsidy is? I'm shocked!!!

Look, industries are different.
Mining is different than farming.
Oil drilling is different than Facebook.

If you're going to whine that mineral mining and oil drilling should not get to write off depletion of their assets, I'm going to point out your ignorance.

If you think a check sent to a person simply for buying an electric vehicle isn't a subsidy, I'm going to point out your ignorance.

 

[Slash]

They didn't count drilling costs as a "subsidy" as you're doing. Nor did they count most of the other things you can't as a subsidy.

Again, better deals than their counterparts in other industries got. Thus a subsidy. Thus why the Congressional Budget office called it a subsidy.

According to the study by the Congressional Budget Office, capital investments like oil field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9 percent, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25 percent for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry. But hey, one industry paying significantly less taxes than another isn't a subsidy right? Oh wait. You said it is.

Take it up with Congress. Take it up with Jack N Gerard, head of the American Petroleum Institute the largest trade association and lobbyist for the oil and gas industry who said to congress in 2012 that if subsidies were taken away that jobs would be lost and prices would rise. Take it up with big oil that they needn't worry, those subsidies they are trying to protect... don't actually exist. They've been spending hundreds of millions lobbying for something they never had in the first place right???

Explaing to Congress who says that they are giving subsidies to big oil, and big oil who says they need the subsidies congress gives them that those subsidies aren't real.

 

[Slash]

If you're going to whine that mineral mining and oil drilling should not get to write off depletion of their assets, I'm going to point out your ignorance.

If you think a check sent to a person simply for buying an electric vehicle isn't a subsidy, I'm going to point out your ignorance.

Ok buttercup... last time. Not saying it's bad that they can just depreciate assets. I've explained this to you a dozen times, and you've failed to educate yourself on it. If you are in the tech industry and have an asset that you didn't depreciate in real life but claim you did on your taxes, that is tax fraud. and you are fined or maybe go to jail. If you do the same thing in the oil industry you are ok due to specific oil industry tax break laws.



Back in the 20's you didn't know how long your well would last. No clue. So the government to help grow the new oil industry passed a law that they could deduct depreciation at a higher rate than other industries (15% here) for forever. That way if your oil ran out early, you had already recouped most of your tax benefits (getting a tax break for depreciation when you are no longer in business is not good), and if it ran long... congrats, you get a bonus. So guess what, in 10 years, you've depreciated a 1 million dollar oil field to a value of -$500,000.

Show me in the corporate tax code where that's offered to every business.




And of course you had no idea back in the early 1900's if you'd drill and actually hit oil. Not a problem today, we have much more advanced tech where we don't drill and come up empty. But back then you'd spend piles of money to drill, come up empty and lose a lot of money. So in order to help oil become financially viable and push the expansion of the new oil business, they created a subsidy for that. Tax exempt oil exploration. Now, not needed, but that tax subsidy stays on the books. You can expense 70% of your drilling expenses and depreciate the rest.

Show where year 1 of expansion is ALWAYS tax free in the corporate tax code that affects every business. Because this has saved BILLIONS in taxes EVERY SINGLE YEAR for over a century for the oil industry.



These were startup subsidies that never got taken off the books. Oil has been lobbying to keep those subsidies going since before WWII. And they are so ingrained in your life now, you don't even see them as subsidies, because "that's how it's always been".

 

[Slash]

If you think a check sent to a person simply for buying an electric vehicle isn't a subsidy, I'm going to point out your ignorance.

I fully do. The only way it isn't a subsidy is if big oil's similar breaks are not subsidies. That's you maintaining these aren't subsidies. I fully believe they are.

 

[bripat9643]

They didn't count drilling costs as a "subsidy" as you're doing. Nor did they count most of the other things you can't as a subsidy.

Again, better deals than their counterparts in other industries got. Thus a subsidy. Thus why the Congressional Budget office called it a subsidy.

No, they just have costs that are peculiar to their industry.

According to the study by the Congressional Budget Office, capital investments like oil field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9 percent, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25 percent for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry. But hey, one industry paying significantly less taxes than another isn't a subsidy right? Oh wait. You said it is.

The CBO is mostly full of shit. Their predictions about Obamacare were 100% wrong, so why should anyone believe this report?

Take it up with Congress. Take it up with Jack N Gerard, head of the American Petroleum Institute the largest trade association and lobbyist for the oil and gas industry who said to congress in 2012 that if subsidies were taken away that jobs would be lost and prices would rise. Take it up with big oil that they needn't worry, those subsidies they are trying to protect... don't actually exist. They've been spending hundreds of millions lobbying for something they never had in the first place right???

Did they use the term "subidies?" I doubt it. Of course every industry wants tax law to be as favorable to it as possible, and they will fight bitterly to preserve anything that's favorable to it, but that doesn't make it a subsidy.

Explaing to Congress who says that they are giving subsidies to big oil, and big oil who says they need the subsidies congress gives them that those subsidies aren't real.

Now you're asking me to accept the opinion of a bunch of oily politicians

 

[bripat9643]

If you think a check sent to a person simply for buying an electric vehicle isn't a subsidy, I'm going to point out your ignorance.

I fully do. The only way it isn't a subsidy is if big oil's similar breaks are not subsidies. That's you maintaining these aren't subsidies. I fully believe they are.

Wrong. The government doesn't send oil companies a check.

 

[Slash]

Wrong. The government doesn't send oil companies a check.

And you don't get one with the EV tax Credit either. You get a tax credit, same exact as the gov't has been handing out to the oil industry for over a century.

 

[Slash]

Now you're asking me to accept the opinion of a bunch of oily politicians

Or the big oil CEO's that have asked for those subsidies to continue. Kinda funny. Both sides admit they are subsidies. Somehow you know more than either.. Hmmm.

 

[Slash]

Now you are really really digging in the weeds aren't you bigpat... "if it's not a check it's not really a subsidy" " If they don't call that huge tax break a subsidy, it's not really a subsidy". "The costs are peculiar to their industry"

I think I drew you in far enough there where you are just wallowing in the mud now, just wanted to see how many possible things you could deny were subsidies. So with a subsidy free oil industry, the following can't be subsidies as oil/coal have all received these.

Industry specific tax breaks
No/Low interest loans
R&D grant money (that was a big one you took away)
Bailout money
Financing for any sort of environmental impact (see Deepwater horizon)
Tax credits to end users (happens with rural electrical and in coal heavy electrical area's for decades)
Any transportation deals/infrastructure building
Any relief for moving to a certain state


Congrats... you played yourself. So with all that off the table you've effectively written off over 90% of what people consider subsidies for renewables when they say renewable energy is subsidized.

You've either got a half trillion plus in subsidies for oil/coal the past century to compare against which you deny....
or some startup costs possibly entirely in the past now is all you can find for green energy, since all the other stuff doesn't count.

Wow. Way to prove a point and get that one. You wiped out EERE, the loans, the tax credits, the bailout money... What do you even have left to call a subsidy for renewables with your paring down of everything so big oil is subsidy free? I think you brought that down to just about nothing. So are you saying that being almost entirely subsidy free and independent, renewable energies are the fastest growing energy source in the USA and that's proof of it's sustainability? I couldn't have made a stronger argument for that than you just did, but hey, that's your logic, not mine.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you're going to whine that mineral mining and oil drilling should not get to write off depletion of their assets, I'm going to point out your ignorance.

If you think a check sent to a person simply for buying an electric vehicle isn't a subsidy, I'm going to point out your ignorance.

Ok buttercup... last time. Not saying it's bad that they can just depreciate assets. I've explained this to you a dozen times, and you've failed to educate yourself on it. If you are in the tech industry and have an asset that you didn't depreciate in real life but claim you did on your taxes, that is tax fraud. and you are fined or maybe go to jail. If you do the same thing in the oil industry you are ok due to specific oil industry tax break laws.



Back in the 20's you didn't know how long your well would last. No clue. So the government to help grow the new oil industry passed a law that they could deduct depreciation at a higher rate than other industries (15% here) for forever. That way if your oil ran out early, you had already recouped most of your tax benefits (getting a tax break for depreciation when you are no longer in business is not good), and if it ran long... congrats, you get a bonus. So guess what, in 10 years, you've depreciated a 1 million dollar oil field to a value of -$500,000.

Show me in the corporate tax code where that's offered to every business.




And of course you had no idea back in the early 1900's if you'd drill and actually hit oil. Not a problem today, we have much more advanced tech where we don't drill and come up empty. But back then you'd spend piles of money to drill, come up empty and lose a lot of money. So in order to help oil become financially viable and push the expansion of the new oil business, they created a subsidy for that. Tax exempt oil exploration. Now, not needed, but that tax subsidy stays on the books. You can expense 70% of your drilling expenses and depreciate the rest.

Show where year 1 of expansion is ALWAYS tax free in the corporate tax code that affects every business. Because this has saved BILLIONS in taxes EVERY SINGLE YEAR for over a century for the oil industry.



These were startup subsidies that never got taken off the books. Oil has been lobbying to keep those subsidies going since before WWII. And they are so ingrained in your life now, you don't even see them as subsidies, because "that's how it's always been".

If you do the same thing in the oil industry you are ok due to specific oil industry tax break laws.

How is the reduced amount of oil remaining not equivalent to depreciation?

So guess what, in 10 years, you've depreciated a 1 million dollar oil field to a value of -$500,000.

You're confused. If you use cost depletion, you can't have an adjusted basis below zero.
If you use percentage depletion, you deduct 15% of your gross income.

Now, about that check you got for buying an EV, did that "sum of money granted by the government" "assist an industry or business" so that the price of YOUR CAR may remain low or competitive?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you think a check sent to a person simply for buying an electric vehicle isn't a subsidy, I'm going to point out your ignorance.

I fully do. The only way it isn't a subsidy is if big oil's similar breaks are not subsidies. That's you maintaining these aren't subsidies. I fully believe they are.

The difference between writing off a typical expense related to your core business and getting a government check for buying a certain type of car and not for buying a different type of car is pretty clear.