The United States Was Born Liberal

Discussion in 'Politics' started by AVG-JOE, Dec 3, 2008.

  1. AVG-JOE
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    AVG-JOE American Mutt Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    "The United States, as the political scientist Louis Hartz argued in the 1950s, was born liberal. We fought for our independence against Great Britain and the conservatism that flourished there. In Europe, a conservative was someone who defended the traditions of the monarchy, justified the privileges of the nobility, and welcomed the intervention of a state-affiliated clergy in politics. But all those things would be tossed out by the revolutionaries who led the war for independence and then wrote the Constitution. We chose to have an elected president, not an anointed monarch. Our Constitution prohibited the granting of titles of nobility. We separated church and state."

    Quote from: "Why Conservatives Can't Govern" by Alan Wolfe (Emphasis mine)

    The quote in context makes logical sense to me... Elite power base, Church influence in politics, Wealth to the wealthy - almost makes one wish we had another new world to conquer in order to establish yet another more perfect union...

    -Joe
     
  2. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    True enough.... though I actually thought we were born radical.

    The tories would have called them "moonbats". ;)
     
  3. Kevin_Kennedy
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    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

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    I don't think being revolutionary constitutes being liberal. Thomas Jefferson certainly can't be considered a liberal since he favored a limited federal government.
     
  4. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    Conserve

    1: to keep in a safe or sound state <he conserved his inheritance> ; especially : to avoid wasteful or destructive use of <conserve natural resources>

    I have a different take on it, that to be conservative is to keep in a sound and safe state as it applies to the Federal Govt. To avoid wastefulness and destructive use of resources both natural ones as well as fiscal ones. It seems a rather simple concept actually as it applies to the Federal Govt.. and when applied to the Founders of this nation it is easily seen that they were indeed conservative more so than liberal. In fact I will submit that a person that is an environmentalist is actually a conservative if you get right down to it. The only thing that makes them liberal is that they wish to use destructive and wasteful Govt. resources to conserve environmental ones. The problem here is that the definition of someone that believes that the Federal Govt. has specific duties and that to conserve resources, monetary ones, and keeping a strong military and limiting those powers and giving powers not deemed in the constitution to the states has been lost. A true conservative is someone that wants to limit the power of Federal Govt. to those powers given in the constitution and conserve those resources that the Federal Govt. has to the benefit of us all. In conclusion the recent versions of conservatives or so called ones that are in Govt. now are not conservative by any stretch of the imagination and are not by definition what the Founders would have been conservative.
     
  5. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    Yes he can. Back then, he was liberal.

    The Conservatives back then wanted to stay a part of England.

    Just like you conservatives got more conservative when you found out Clinton liked BJ's.

    And you Conservatives should have spoke up before 2006. You defended everything Bush did for 6-7 years. Now you want to distance yourselves from him? Yet you won't let us distance ourselves from Carter? :lol:
     
  6. CSM
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    CSM Senior Member

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    I am not so sure that the terms "liberal" and "conservative" as we define them today really apply.
     
  7. Steerpike
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    Steerpike VIP Member

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    Yeah...they may have been liberal within the context of the day, but if you took the views of the "liberals" at the founding of the country and implemented them all today, I think the conservatives of today would be far happier about it than the liberals of today.
     
  8. del
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    del BANNED

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    bingo. they don't apply at all. to be liberal in the 18th century was to deny the divine right of kings and to assert the rights of the individual to self governance and religious choice.

    i think the agenda has shifted a tad 200+ years later.
     
  9. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    I think our movement is better defined as Progressive.

    Conservs want to stay with the status quo and not change.

    Progressives are always thinking ahead.

    Conservatives sit and think. But mostly they just sit.
     
  10. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    Of course they are... conservatives want to maintain the status quo. Liberals want to move society forward. It's one of the reasons I said the radical right wasn't ever conservative.
     

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