The Ultimate Goal of Democrats is finally being realized!

[Stryder50]

You didn't buy that working a blue-collar job, after four years of arriving in this country with a few pennies in your pocket. That was possible when you were a young man, but not anymore.

Money is created by the government and its creation is dependent upon production. Production doesn't rely on capitalists or the rich, it relies on those who are willing to pull up their sleeves and go to work. If workers today decide to start a labor-owned cooperative, the banks and even the SBA i.e. Small Business Administration, won't finance it, even though it's proven already, that worker-owned and run enterprises are more competitive than privately owned ones. They require fewer profits to survive and compete, if any profits at all, while creating good-paying jobs with plenty of benefits.

The right-wing rhetoric against labor unions, attempting to prevent workers from organizing themselves to defend and advance their collective, mutual interests, was successful in the past, especially in the past forty years since the "trickle down" became the SOP, but the younger generation isn't buying it and good for them.

It would take several paragraphs (pages?) to cover all the ignorance and errors you present, but I haven't time to waste on one whom doesn't appear to want to learn. Our education system should have done that but you appear to be in the majority of it's students whom were properly instructed. Nevertheless, here's a few pointers you might be able to grasp.

Before there can be production, there has to be the material to work with to make that production. The factory and the machinery say (a.k.a. "Capital"), and then the raw materials to shape into a product(s), which ideally have the quality and sell price to be competitive with similar made by others. It's those lazy capitalists whom put up their wealth and money to provide all that so that the worker can have a job in their factory and earn a wage for doing the labor wanted~needed. Without all that, the worker is back to being a peasant trying to scratch out a living working a plot of land,if they have such, to grow enough to hopefully feed themselves and/or their family.

That's the rough generic outline or story but it's something that has been centuries in the making working from the time humans were wandering bands wearing furs and hoping they could kill the next mastodon for dinner.

Another way to get the Capital to provide the business/factory/etc. for workers to have a job at is to form the sort of corporation that offers shares of partial ownership in what we know as stocks. The persons whom buy those shares of stocks are providing the funds (money~wealth) to get that business started and going, and able to provide jobs for those whom work for it. Those shareholders of stocks are taking a chance(risk) that their investment will not lose value, rather that the venture/business will be profitable enough to grow in value, and their shares increase in value along the way,, and also be profitable to pay dividends, a portion of the profits, to those shareholders. Also, it will take profits to pay for better machinery and more productive equipment, expand into larger and/or more facilities, and be able to offer more jobs to more workers. And another important thing from profits is the ability/resource to pay off the loans and/or shares of stock that were the original investment capital.

"good paying jobs with plenty of benefits" can only happen when a business is operating at high productivity and high profitability, and that doesn't happen when the egg first hatches. Usually takes time, good management, often lots of hard work - by owners and workers/employees, and also often a bit of luck.

Often those shares of stocks (and sometimes the bonds that some companies sell for capital) are what the mangers direct investment in for the pensions they oversee and/or those IRAs and 401Ks, etc. Anyone looking to invest towards retirement and not wanting to rely only upon the guv'mint, will use these as supplement to alternate resources. Remember, it's those holders of stocks that the company is also making profits for.

The only thing preventing you "communist front" from getting things together to start your own business and maybe grow it into something very large, profitable, and providing good paying jobs and good benefits to others is yourself. It takes some brains, a lot of guts, and a lot of work to make that happen, do you think you have any of such?

 

[Rogue AI]

Telling millions of people they weren't 'essential' probably has nothing to do with, right?

 

[Stryder50]

If we're going to have a society that functions, then we have to develop some empathy, not just for the rich and powerful, but for the average Joe, who wakes up in the morning and goes to work, to survive. We're living in a world, in a universe, that is indifferent to our needs and wants to kill us. It behooves us to have a little bit more consideration towards one another and organize society in such a way that everyone can survive. Have a job, food, and a roof over their heads. If not then it's every man for himself, dog-eat-dog world.

So how much empathy and consideration have you developed and shared with your fellow "average Joe" ???
First step in the process is to practice what you preach and not expect or demand it from others. Set the example yourself.

The universe operates on the concept of entropy in form of hydrogen 'burning' into helium in the Sun to provide the heat and light energy that makes our world livable, to the predator eating the flesh of the prey to provide energy and cell growth to it's body. It's a dog-eat-dog universe and you first need to understand and accept it or you'll be tilting at windmills all your life. None of we humans are owed anything by the universe other than to accept what is and deal with it.

As for societies, the best they can (should be) organized for is to provide opportunities to all to provide for themselves; and if they produce excess, maybe share with others. Mandating or forcing A to give to B is not Liberty and usually the definition of a tyranny. The first obligation for all of us to "huck our own ruck"; "truck our own freight"; "carry our own load"; "provide for ourselves, don't expect others to do so". (One of the requirements of human adults I taught my sons.)

The second requirement would be to leave this world a better place when you go out than when you came in. I'd suggest you chew on this and ask yourself if you are doing such.

A case in point ~ example.

When my wife was living with her first husband in a nearby state of this PNW, he was working construction (building) with another chap we'll call John. For reasons I won't go into here, my wife and the children had to leave that husband and start over in life. However, she remained friends with John and his wife, and kept in touch with them. Several years ago when John and his wife were passing through here on way up to Canada to visit one of their sons, we got together at a local restaurant.

John and I hit it off quite well and he filled me in on his story. Shortly after my wife left that husband and moved West to here, John some resources and a bit of funds together to start a small business making trusses for homes and similar sized buildings. The business took off and began to grow. John related they'd had some rough times during the economic turmoil of 2008-9, but were recovering OK. His business was doing great and he employed over a 100 workers.

John happens to be a devout Christian and his interpretation of the scriptures meant he should share his good fortune with others. as he put it, he felt "the thumb of the Lord upon me". So while he has a very successful and profitable business and he and his family could have a higher lifestyle~standard of living, he channels the majority of his profits to fund an orphanage and attached school over in Africa. It's been a challenge to manage from a distance, here in the USA, and he related how he had to fire some management and workers whom were pocketing funds for themselves rather than apply to his "mission", but felt he had things under good hands over there now. From what he told me, I got the impression that every dollar he sent over there went as far as 4 or 5 dollars of USA foreign aid would go in terms of results.

My point here is that just because one owns a business, a successful and profitable and rather large one, doesn't mean one has to be (or will be) selfish and channel those profits into personal pleasures and satisfactions. There are many whom will see what they do and achieve as tools for better purpose and works and will direct such to those ends and actually be more effective and efficient at such than government force and programs ever could be.

So "CommunistFront"; what have you personally done to acquire wealth and direct it to the "good works", "empathy", and benefit of "average Joe" that you think others should do in your place?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I retired at 58. I suppose that can still be considered a prime working age. It's Democrats fault I did that and I'm not interested in going back to work?

Let's also note, it's been well documented that Maria was one of those willing to say anything to keep ratings up.

How about those 40 something people not returning back to work?

 

[Stryder50]

Telling millions of people they weren't 'essential' probably has nothing to do with, right?

I'm not exactly sure I know or understand what you are trying to say, it was just vague enough to be less than precise.

But if I get it correctly,than it's something like what happened here in my state of Washington when our Left-wingnut governor = never should have been elected, let alone re-elected; a.k.a. gruppenfurher Inslee; decided that the tens of thousands of small business owners, family farmers, trades-persons, contractors and other "little people" were "not essential" and therefore could not go out in public, not do their jobs to earn a living, and must remain locked in so they could flounder and go bankrupt!

Meanwhile, select large corporations* and almost ALL Government workers could do their jobs, or not; yet still collect full paychecks and benefits for doing nothing; hence the Fakers and Takers of Wealth could continue their plunder while the Creators of Wealth weren't allowed to do anything = no more wealth creation. Meanwhile Guv'mint racks up more deficit and Debt those producers will have to pay off in the future.

* "Costco" could remain open, it's employees working(earning) but the farmers whom make the food that the "Costcos" sell couldn't work and produce.

Inslee is another example of the useless deadwood non-producers whom has spent their lifetime sucking the public tit and living off the real workers and producers of wealth while producing nothing of value himself. He is exactly like the last three POTUS the Democrats/Leftists have burdened this Nation with; the Clinton's, Obama's, and the Biden's whom if you check their resumes' (see Wiki pages for their employment records) have above table been Guv'mint paycheck receivers while under-table have built personal wealth via graft and corruption.

The only thing the Democrats~Leftists provide to our political process and systems are Fakers and Wealth Takers, whom have no grasp of, or role in Wealth Creation.
i.e. useless parasites and deadwood drains upon the valuable producers and citizens.

 

[Stryder50]

How about those 40 something people not returning back to work?

40 as in quantity?
Or '40 something' as in approximate age category?
Could you try being more clear, precise, and exact in what you are floundering about trying to say?

 

[pknopp]

How about those 40 something people not returning back to work?

I don't buy it. I've asked over and over and over and over how it is that all of these people supposedly survive without working and all I get are conspiracy theories.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I don't buy it. I've asked over and over and over and over how it is that all of these people supposedly survive without working and all I get are conspiracy theories.

Welfare, theft, government handout, disability..,....

 

[bigrebnc1775]

40 as in quantity?
Or '40 something' as in approximate age category?
Could you try being more clear, precise, and exact in what you are floundering about trying to say?

Age of people it wasn't that complexed of a question

 

[pknopp]

Welfare, theft, government handout, disability..,....

Yeah, we have millions upon millions of 40 year old on disability. LOL

As I said, conspiracy theories. Anyway, all of this supposedly happened during the pandemic. Why would the Trump administration all of a sudden approve disability for all these people?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yeah, we have millions upon millions of 40 year old on disability. LOL

As I said, conspiracy theories. Anyway, all of this supposedly happened during the pandemic. Why would the Trump administration all of a sudden approve disability for all these people?

I know a few people who are on disability and in their 40s

 

[pknopp]

I know a few people who are on disability and in their 40s

Well that settles it.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Well that settles it.

I'm not the only one who knows of these types of people I'm sure you do too.

 

[Stryder50]

Age of people it wasn't that complexed of a question

Did display that the highest grade you got in English classes was a D.
It's likely that many in that 40 year old and plus range may have gone into self-employment.

 

[Red Front]

So how much empathy and consideration have you developed and shared with your fellow "average Joe" ???
First step in the process is to practice what you preach and not expect or demand it from others. Set the example yourself.

The universe operates on the concept of entropy in form of hydrogen 'burning' into helium in the Sun to provide the heat and light energy that makes our world livable, to the predator eating the flesh of the prey to provide energy and cell growth to it's body. It's a dog-eat-dog universe and you first need to understand and accept it or you'll be tilting at windmills all your life. None of we humans are owed anything by the universe other than to accept what is and deal with it.

As for societies, the best they can (should be) organized for is to provide opportunities to all to provide for themselves; and if they produce excess, maybe share with others. Mandating or forcing A to give to B is not Liberty and usually the definition of a tyranny. The first obligation for all of us to "huck our own ruck"; "truck our own freight"; "carry our own load"; "provide for ourselves, don't expect others to do so". (One of the requirements of human adults I taught my sons.)

The second requirement would be to leave this world a better place when you go out than when you came in. I'd suggest you chew on this and ask yourself if you are doing such.

A case in point ~ example.

When my wife was living with her first husband in a nearby state of this PNW, he was working construction (building) with another chap we'll call John. For reasons I won't go into here, my wife and the children had to leave that husband and start over in life. However, she remained friends with John and his wife, and kept in touch with them. Several years ago when John and his wife were passing through here on way up to Canada to visit one of their sons, we got together at a local restaurant.

John and I hit it off quite well and he filled me in on his story. Shortly after my wife left that husband and moved West to here, John some resources and a bit of funds together to start a small business making trusses for homes and similar sized buildings. The business took off and began to grow. John related they'd had some rough times during the economic turmoil of 2008-9, but were recovering OK. His business was doing great and he employed over a 100 workers.

John happens to be a devout Christian and his interpretation of the scriptures meant he should share his good fortune with others. as he put it, he felt "the thumb of the Lord upon me". So while he has a very successful and profitable business and he and his family could have a higher lifestyle~standard of living, he channels the majority of his profits to fund an orphanage and attached school over in Africa. It's been a challenge to manage from a distance, here in the USA, and he related how he had to fire some management and workers whom were pocketing funds for themselves rather than apply to his "mission", but felt he had things under good hands over there now. From what he told me, I got the impression that every dollar he sent over there went as far as 4 or 5 dollars of USA foreign aid would go in terms of results.

My point here is that just because one owns a business, a successful and profitable and rather large one, doesn't mean one has to be (or will be) selfish and channel those profits into personal pleasures and satisfactions. There are many whom will see what they do and achieve as tools for better purpose and works and will direct such to those ends and actually be more effective and efficient at such than government force and programs ever could be.

So "CommunistFront"; what have you personally done to acquire wealth and direct it to the "good works", "empathy", and benefit of "average Joe" that you think others should do in your place?

You're confused about how money is created in a country with a sovereign, fiat currency and the consequences of being indifferent to homelessness and other social ills. Since none of us live in a vacuum but rather in a human society with other people, we can and should eliminate unnecessary suffering like homelessness and hunger. We live in a modern, civil society, so there is really no excuse for this:

​

The God of the Bible demands that his people eliminate homelessness and starvation by housing the homeless and feeding the hungry. Those who refuse to do that will be cast into hell according to Matthew's gospel. If you're not a Bible-believing Christian or a theist, then it's still in your interest to eliminate human suffering in society and establish a good, functional, productive order. People sleeping on the sidewalk in front of your store or diner, panhandling, harassing your customers, maybe even threatening them. The entrance of your business smells like a stinking urinal. Doesn't that negatively affect you and the community in general? Its economy, its safety, and public health. etc. Yes, it does.

Ignoring the homeless, pretending they're not there, is more expensive than simply resolving the problem. Laws have to be established that allow the community to force drug addicts into rehab and later when they're clean and sober, house them. Provide them with healthcare, vocational job training, employment opportunities..etc. Doing that is cheaper, than just leaving them out there rotting away, breaking into people's cars, assaulting and robbing people..etc. No. You force them into rehab and then you provide them with the help that they need to get back on their feet. Tough love.

 

[Red Front]

It would take several paragraphs (pages?) to cover all the ignorance and errors you present, but I haven't time to waste on one whom doesn't appear to want to learn. Our education system should have done that but you appear to be in the majority of it's students whom were properly instructed. Nevertheless, here's a few pointers you might be able to grasp.

Before there can be production, there has to be the material to work with to make that production. The factory and the machinery say (a.k.a. "Capital"), and then the raw materials to shape into a product(s), which ideally have the quality and sell price to be competitive with similar made by others. It's those lazy capitalists whom put up their wealth and money to provide all that so that the worker can have a job in their factory and earn a wage for doing the labor wanted~needed. Without all that, the worker is back to being a peasant trying to scratch out a living working a plot of land,if they have such, to grow enough to hopefully feed themselves and/or their family.

That's the rough generic outline or story but it's something that has been centuries in the making working from the time humans were wandering bands wearing furs and hoping they could kill the next mastodon for dinner.

Another way to get the Capital to provide the business/factory/etc. for workers to have a job at is to form the sort of corporation that offers shares of partial ownership in what we know as stocks. The persons whom buy those shares of stocks are providing the funds (money~wealth) to get that business started and going, and able to provide jobs for those whom work for it. Those shareholders of stocks are taking a chance(risk) that their investment will not lose value, rather that the venture/business will be profitable enough to grow in value, and their shares increase in value along the way,, and also be profitable to pay dividends, a portion of the profits, to those shareholders. Also, it will take profits to pay for better machinery and more productive equipment, expand into larger and/or more facilities, and be able to offer more jobs to more workers. And another important thing from profits is the ability/resource to pay off the loans and/or shares of stock that were the original investment capital.

"good paying jobs with plenty of benefits" can only happen when a business is operating at high productivity and high profitability, and that doesn't happen when the egg first hatches. Usually takes time, good management, often lots of hard work - by owners and workers/employees, and also often a bit of luck.

Often those shares of stocks (and sometimes the bonds that some companies sell for capital) are what the mangers direct investment in for the pensions they oversee and/or those IRAs and 401Ks, etc. Anyone looking to invest towards retirement and not wanting to rely only upon the guv'mint, will use these as supplement to alternate resources. Remember, it's those holders of stocks that the company is also making profits for.

The only thing preventing you "communist front" from getting things together to start your own business and maybe grow it into something very large, profitable, and providing good paying jobs and good benefits to others is yourself. It takes some brains, a lot of guts, and a lot of work to make that happen, do you think you have any of such?

Just because you own stocks in a company, doesn't give you the right to decide company policy. It doesn't give you any authority over the management of the company unless you own a significant share of the company, which in the vast majority of cases, individual employees don't (they wouldn't be employees if they did). Just owning a few thousand dollars in shares, if that, doesn't give you much power to steer the enterprise in any given direction or any rights to make policy decisions. Stock options for employees doesn't equate to handing ownership of the company to its workers.

Worker-owned companies where each worker has a vote in the management of the enterprise are known as labor cooperatives. They're run democratically, even if there's a board of directors that makes most of the day-to-day decisions (the members of the board are elected by the workers). The worker-owners usually have certain obligations and responsibilities that employees working in a privately owned company don't have. For example, attending classes once or twice weekly to learn everything about the business, how to manage it, and training in different skills. etc. In general, the worker-owner is a skilled worker, able to adopt different roles in the company when required.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Telling millions of people they weren't 'essential' probably has nothing to do with, right?

The Germans used to have a word for that. They called them undermensch.


The Democrat party just picked a different target - small business owners - and changed the term to non-essential, instead.

 

[MarathonMike]

I retired at 58. I suppose that can still be considered a prime working age. It's Democrats fault I did that and I'm not interested in going back to work?

Let's also note, it's been well documented that Maria was one of those willing to say anything to keep ratings up.

That's not the point. Low labor participation rate is about people in their PRIME WORKING YEARS opting out and living off the gubmint dole. It's not about guys like you or me who had a long career and then took our well EARNED retirement.

 

[pknopp]

That's not the point. Low labor participation rate is about people in their PRIME WORKING YEARS opting out and living off the gubmint dole. It's not about guys like you or me who had a long career and then took our well EARNED retirement.

And it doesn't happen anywhere near what people pretend. Tell me about this, so I can sign up.

 

[beagle9]

Absolutely not. The president controls little. It's all up to the irrational actions of the markets.

The office of presidency and the government is charged to oversee the well being of the American citizens, and it can definitely use tools and influence to straighten out an out of order problem that developed in the market place. The constitution charges our government to do it's job when the well being of the citizen's are threatened due to overwhelming circumstances created by corrupt individuals taking advantage of our freedom's given them.