The True Meaning of Thanksgiving: The Birth of Private Enterprise in America

[Dystopia]

When the Mayflower went back to England in the spring, they brought back nothing of any wealth for the investors. As an investor, you lost everything.

In fact, the Plymouth Colony was a failure.

So in one post, you claim the venture was a financial failure, while in a later post you claim it was a success.
I suppose you have managed to avoid obscenity, so I won't put you on ignore, but I would recommend consistence in your posting.

With the people themselves that got on the Mayflower and were the first settlers, they were the people that lost everything. They sold everything in England and paid people to take them to the Netherlands at first, and back to England on their voyage to America. They collectively purchase a ship called the Speedwell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedwell_(ship)

The Speedwell was designed to stay in America as a source of protection and finding trade with the natives. In case of an emergency, the population can abandon the colony for a safe harbor.

The people that made money, was the people that had no wish to live in America. The people that sold the Speedwell and the people that purchased the Speedwell from people that have no wish to return to Europe.

The more I study it and look at it, I feel sorry for these people that came to America.

 

[Dystopia]

People talk about property and making money with the Mayflower crossing during this tread. Fine, but the real people that made money from this Mayflower crossing and the settlement of the Plymouth Colony were in England and mainland Europe..

So in this post the venture was a financial success for the backers.
Do you see the reverse?

Do you know what an indentured servant is and what they did after their voyage to America?

 

[Intense]

It's a shame that so many people have no idea what private enterprise is. I mean do you honestly think under a system of private enterprise friends and family wouldn't share a meal together without paying each other? Utterly ridiculous.

What They are not telling You is How Offensive Private Property is To Them, How offensive it is to All Totalitarians or Statists.

 

[Paulie]

The first Thanksgiving was in 1619 so your silly Libertarian wet dream scenarios are an Epic Fail.

Rav, that was the Berkeley Plantation where the colonists dropped and gave thanks to God for a safe arrival. I don't think there's anything written about a dinner during that event.

Maybe I'm wrong.

What would it matter if they had a dinner or not?

Because that's the crux of this argument. Apparently some in here think that the whole 'free enterprise' part of this OP is null and void because the settlers weren't charging others to eat

Your statement really didn't pertain, because this was about the first Thanksgiving DINNER.

 

[Dystopia]

Thesis:

Summary: Although the terms socialism and communism were once used interchangeably, these systems have evolved over time to represent two completely different forms of government. Communist and socialist political parties are now bitter enemies in some parts of the world. Communism and socialism were both established to crush the uprising of capitalism in the 1800's. The founders of both forms of government believed that land, factories, and other economic resources should be government owned instead of privately owned. However, communists and socialists began to disagree on many points and they eventually evolved into completely separate ideologies.

If you really want to look at the best father between socialism and communism, or to the political leaders of Hitler and Stalin: their core philosopher was Friedrich Hegel (1770 – 1831). More to the point of dealing in modern terms as German Idealism, and idealism is with both wings of a political agenda. The Democratic Party, the Republican Party, Social Democratic Party (socialism), NAZI Party (national socialism) and the Communist Party are all idealist political parties. Was Hegel a socialist or a communist, he was not really a supporter of both.

 

[Shogun]

It's a shame that so many people have no idea what private enterprise is. I mean do you honestly think under a system of private enterprise friends and family wouldn't share a meal together without paying each other? Utterly ridiculous.

no, what is utterly ridiculous is watching free market capitalstas clutch for validation through assimilating holidays which is essentially a poster child for socialism. I guess it must suck to watch FMC rotting on the vine post-Greenspan.

 

[Paulie]

Why are holidays related to socialism, just out of curiosity?

If anything, capitalists have taken holidays and ran with them in modern times, considering how commercialized they've become.

 

[Ravi]

Rav, that was the Berkeley Plantation where the colonists dropped and gave thanks to God for a safe arrival. I don't think there's anything written about a dinner during that event.

Maybe I'm wrong.

What would it matter if they had a dinner or not?

Because that's the crux of this argument. Apparently some in here think that the whole 'free enterprise' part of this OP is null and void because the settlers weren't charging others to eat

Your statement really didn't pertain, because this was about the first Thanksgiving DINNER.

From the article Kevin linked:

This is the lesson of the First Thanksgiving.

The entire article is basing its argument on something that wasn't even the first Thanksgiving.

 

[Paulie]

What would it matter if they had a dinner or not?

Because that's the crux of this argument. Apparently some in here think that the whole 'free enterprise' part of this OP is null and void because the settlers weren't charging others to eat

Your statement really didn't pertain, because this was about the first Thanksgiving DINNER.

From the article Kevin linked:

This is the lesson of the First Thanksgiving.

The entire article is basing its argument on something that wasn't even the first Thanksgiving.

The article is speaking in terms of sharing food together when it wasn't exactly plentiful, and giving thanks.

The first time someone UTTERED the word "thanksgiving" was the Berkeley Plantation, yes, but this article is speaking about the first time colonist sat down and shared food together to celebrate.

You're obviously not grasping that in your typical attempt to be pretentious.

 

[Intense]

What would it matter if they had a dinner or not?

Because that's the crux of this argument. Apparently some in here think that the whole 'free enterprise' part of this OP is null and void because the settlers weren't charging others to eat

Your statement really didn't pertain, because this was about the first Thanksgiving DINNER.

From the article Kevin linked:

This is the lesson of the First Thanksgiving.

The entire article is basing its argument on something that wasn't even the first Thanksgiving.

So What are You doing for Thanksgiving?

 

[Ravi]

Because that's the crux of this argument. Apparently some in here think that the whole 'free enterprise' part of this OP is null and void because the settlers weren't charging others to eat

Your statement really didn't pertain, because this was about the first Thanksgiving DINNER.

From the article Kevin linked:

This is the lesson of the First Thanksgiving.

The entire article is basing its argument on something that wasn't even the first Thanksgiving.

So What are You doing for Thanksgiving?

Mooching off of Momma. I usually do it for the entire family but she doesn't want my dad driving this year so we are taking everything but the turkey to her.

 

[midcan5]

In Defense of Capitalism & Human Progress: The True Meaning of Thanksgiving: The Birth of Private Enterprise in America by Richard M. Ebeling

That has to be the biggest pile of bullshit revisionism in the history of at least the last week. Collectivism!!! but the good guys through arduousness endeavor finally win out, what a farce. I wish I had time to research the idiocy that corporate tool writes, but my eyes are so full of the glory of money I can hardly see. If there were an award for taking the modern times and reading backward into a past so different from today, he would win it. Monday morning quarterback idiocy 200 plus years later. Too comic.

 

[Intense]

In Defense of Capitalism & Human Progress: The True Meaning of Thanksgiving: The Birth of Private Enterprise in America by Richard M. Ebeling

That has to be the biggest pile of bullshit revisionism in the history of at least the last week. Collectivism!!! but the good guys through arduousness endeavor finally win out, what a farce. I wish I had time to research the idiocy that corporate tool writes, but my eyes are so full of the glory of money I can hardly see. If there were an award for taking the modern times and reading backward into a past so different from today, he would win it. Monday morning quarterback idiocy 200 plus years later. Too comic.

Take a Valium, Calm down. ... Happy Thanksgiving Midcan!!! Here are two links who's context is easier to relate to. Understand that the Colonist's had survived Great Sickness, it was a hard start for them, regardless of the Politics. Please check out both Links, for a better understanding.

The First ThanksgivingIn 1621, the Plymouth colonists and Wampanoag Indians shared an autumn harvest feast which is acknowledged today as one of the first Thanksgiving celebrations in the colonies. This harvest meal has become a symbol of cooperation and interaction between English colonists and Native Americans. Although this feast is considered by many to the very first Thanksgiving celebration, it was actually in keeping with a long tradition of celebrating the harvest and giving thanks for a successful bounty of crops. Native American groups throughout the Americas, including the Pueblo, Cherokee, Creek and many others organized harvest festivals, ceremonial dances, and other celebrations of thanks for centuries before the arrival of Europeans in North America.
Historians have also recorded other ceremonies of thanks among European settlers in North America, including British colonists in Berkeley Plantation, Virginia. At this site near the Charles River in December of 1619, a group of British settlers led by Captain John Woodlief knelt in prayer and pledged "Thanksgiving" to God for their healthy arrival after a long voyage across the Atlantic. This event has been acknowledged by some scholars and writers as the official first Thanksgiving among European settlers on record. Whether at Plymouth, Berkeley Plantation, or throughout the Americas, celebrations of thanks have held great meaning and importance over time. The legacy of thanks, and particularly of the feast, have survived the centuries as people throughout the United States gather family, friends, and enormous amounts of food for their yearly Thanksgiving meal.


The First Thanksgiving - History.com - Pilgrims, Indians, & Food

Private and communal farming (1623)

All this while no supply was heard of, neither knew they when they might expect any. So they began to think how they might raise as much corn as they could, and obtain a better crop than they had done, that they might not still thus languish in misery. At length, after much debate of things, the Governor (with the advice of the chiefest amongst them) gave way that they should set corn every man for his own particular, and in that regard trust to themselves; in all other thing to go on in the general way as before. And so assigned to every family a parcel of land, according to the proportion of their number, for that end, only for present use (but made no division for inheritance) and ranged all boys and youth under some family. This had very good success, for it made all hands very industrious, so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been by any means the Governor or any other could use, and saved him a great deal of trouble, and gave far better content. The women now went willingly into the field, and took their little ones with them to set corn; which before would allege weakness and inability; whom to have compelled would have been thought great tyranny and oppression.

The experience that was had in this common course and condition, tried sundry years and that amongst godly and sober men, may well evince the vanity of that conceit of Plato's and other ancients applauded by some of later times; and that the taking away of property and bringing in community into a commonwealth would make them happy and flourishing; as if they were wiser than God. For this community (so far as it was) was found to breed much confusion and discontent and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort. For the young men, that were most able and fit for labor and service, did repine that they should spend their time and strength to work for other men's wives and children without any recompense. The strong, or man of parts, had no more in division of victuals and clothes than he that was weak and not able to do a quarter the other could; this was thought injustice. The aged and graver men to be ranked and equalized in labors and victuals, clothes etc., with the meaner and younger sort, thought it some indignity and disrespect unto them. And for men's wives to be commanded to do service for other men, as dressing their meat, washing their clothes, etc., they deemed it a kind of slavery, neither could many husbands well brook it. Upon the point all being to have alike, and all to do alike, they thought themselves in the like condition, and one as good as another; and so, if it did not cut off those relations that God hath set amongst men, yet it did at least much diminish and take off the mutual respects that should be preserved amongst them. And would have been worse if they had been men of another condition. Let none object this is men's corruption, and nothing to the course itself. I answer, seeing all men have this corruption in them, God in His wisdom saw another course fitter for them.



Modern History Sourcebook: William Bradford: History of Plymouth Plantation

 

[Ravi]

What you've posted, Intense, further debunks the OPs article about the so-called first Thanksgiving.

 

[Ravi]

This part was pretty funny, I have to admit.

This harvest meal has become a symbol of cooperation and interaction between English colonists and Native Americans.

 

[Intense]

What you've posted, Intense, further debunks the OPs article about the so-called first Thanksgiving.

This Link is pretty informative. It debunks what most were taught. It paints a Full spectrum.
There Were Powers, Energies that could not be tapped under the Communal System, that for the good of All were abandoned. William Bradford, was focused on what was best for the Community, and for the best of the Community, Private Property Rights needed to be adapted for Incentive. The effect was remarkable. Applied Biblical Practices. It's all in the Link.


http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1650bradford.html

 

[Ravi]

btw...you all do realized the Plymouth Plantation was a failure in the end, don't you.

 

[Intense]

btw...you all do realized the Plymouth Plantation was a failure in the end, don't you.

So What are You having for Thanksgiving?

 

[Intense]

btw...you all do realized the Plymouth Plantation was a failure in the end, don't you.

They should fail if they ate Swan. That pisses Me off!!!!!

 

[Intense]

The Massachusetts Bay Colony (sometimes called the Massachusetts Bay Company, for the institution that founded it) was an English settlement on the east coast of North America in the 17th century, in New England, centered around the present-day cities of Salem and Boston. The area is now in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, one of the 50 United States of America.
Plans for the first permanent European settlements on the east coast of North America began in 1606, when King James I of England formed two joint stock companies. The London Company covered a more southern territory and proceeded to establish the Jamestown Settlement. The Plymouth Company under the guidance of Sir Ferdinando Gorges covered the more northern area, including present-day New England, and established the Sagadahoc Colony in 1607 in present-day Maine.[1] The experience proved exceptionally difficult for the 120 settlers, however, and the colonists abandoned the colony after only one year.

In November 1620, a group of separatist Pilgrims famously established Plymouth Colony. Although this settlement faced great hardships and earned few profits, it enjoyed a positive reputation in England and may have sown the seeds for further immigration. Edward Winslow and William Bradford published an account of their adventures in 1622, called Mourt's Relation.[2] This book glossed over some of the difficulties and challenges carving a settlement out of the wilderness, but it may have been partly responsible for erasing the memory of the Sagadahoc Colony and encouraging further settlement.

In 1623, the Plymouth Council for New England (successor to the Plymouth Company) established a small fishing village at Cape Ann under the supervision of the Dorchester Company. This company was originally organized at the urging of the Puritan Rev. John White (1575–1648) of Dorchester, in the English county of Dorset. White has been called “the father of the Massachusetts Colony”, despite remaining in England his entire life, because of his influence in establishing this settlement.[3] But the settlement was not profitable, and the financial backers of the Dorchester Company terminated their support by the end of 1625.

In 1626, a few settlers from the Cape Ann fishing village, including Roger Conant, did not abandon the area, but removed to establish a new town at the nearby Indian village of Naumkeag. Rev. John White helped this small band by going back to the Council for New England and obtaining a new land grant and fresh financial support. Dated 19 March 1627, this new patent was known as the Massachusetts Bay Company.[4] This Company sent about one hundred new settlers and provisions in 1628 to join Conant, led by John Endecott, who became the governor of the fledgling settlement.[5] The next year, 1629, Naumkeag was renamed Salem [6] and fortified by another three hundred settlers, led by Rev. Francis Higginson,[7] first minister of the settlement. Nevertheless, the colonists struggled against disease and starvation, and many died.

From their first arrival aboard the Mayflower in 1620 through 1629, only about 300 Puritans had survived in New England,[8] scattered in several small and isolated settlements. In 1630, their population was significantly increased when the ship Mary and John arrived in New England carrying 140 passengers from the English West Country counties of Dorset, Somerset, Devon, and Cornwall. These included William Phelps along with Roger Ludlowe, John Mason, Rev. John Warham and John Maverick, Nicholas Upsall, Henry Wolcott and other men who would become prominent in the founding of a new nation. It was the first of eleven ships later called the Winthrop Fleet to land in Massachusetts.

Massachusetts Bay Colony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia