The true living God

[james bond]

You have made God very, very, very angry. I can only guess how he will respond.

As for the rest, you'll have to find the answers yourself. Your questions, in a word, are... stupid. Lol.

I've got a hunch that you're pissing Him off as well. Why do I say this? Because no man can know the mind of God, and you just said that you know how God feels about a poster, and to what degree He feels that. How do you know what God thinks about Taz?

Hate to tell you, but every relationship that God has with a person is unique and between God and that person ONLY.

Then I can only say you haven't read the Bible very well. The Bible is God's word and we start to understand how he thinks. He thinks like us, i.e. we are created in his image. I would say how we think and feel about good and evil and justice is innate. He gave us his objective moral values in the ten commandments.

How do I know that God is angry with Taz? It's intuition. I think God will send him warnings.

Would you accept the things Taz says if he were talking about you? Of course not.

Now, does it give me the right to condemn Taz and punish him directly? No. We have had many holier than thou people who end up doing this. They may think it's fair to say God hates this and that. They may say it's okay to condemn them, tie them to the stake, and get rid of them. Is this what you're accusing me of?

I have left Taz to his own devices. All he was doing is asking questions in order to tweak Christians' noses. He claims to be agnostic and asks a lot of questions, but he doesn't learn anything from it. He's already made up his mind. He needs proof of God. He doesn't have an open mind nor try to understand the Christian viewpoint.

As for your last sentence, I would agree. I don't think Taz has a relationship with God because he needs proof of God. He doesn't think he exists, but I have been patiently explaining God to him and how he works. He chooses to think God exists if only to be evil.

I’m still waiting for your empirical evidence for god. You said you had some.

If you cared about living a full and rewarding life and your children leading a full and rewarding life, you’d go out and find it yourself. It’s there. I’ve shown it to you plenty of times.

All you have is fartsmoke, with gusts up to wishful thinking.

Yep, that describes ding's non-sequitur posts. I end up doing .

 

[Taz]

So you’re saying that god is like a police state. God’s watching what we do to punish us if we step out of line?

You know, I kinda thought that for a few years growing up, but have since figured it out. No, God didn't give us the 7 Noahide commandments of the 10 Commandments just so He could punish us for not following them, He gave them to us to help us grow and survive.

The first 3 commandments tell us to not disrespect God, not to take His name in vain, and to not have any other Gods besides Him. Why? Because He won't help you if you piss Him off by being disrespectful or praying to other Gods.

Thou shalt not murder. Why? If you murder someone, then one of the murdered person's loved ones may come after you for revenge and kill you.

Thou shalt not steal. Why? If you steal something from someone, they may want to kill you.

Thou shalt not bear false witness. Why? Telling the truth is crucial, and if you lie to your doctor about your symptoms, they might miss something and you die.

Honor thy mother and father. They are the ones that brought you here to this world and gave you life. Without them, you wouldn't exist.

Remember the sabbath day. Why? If you don't take some time off to relax and talk with God, you might get stressed and die from a heart attack.

Thou shalt not commit adultery. Why? If you have sex on the sly with someone else's SO, they may want to hunt you down and hurt or kill you.

Thou shalt not covet. Why? If you are jealous of what your neighbor has, you might be tempted to steal it, or possibly hurt them to get it, which is against 2 other commands.

The way I see it, the 10 Commandments are there to help us keep from messing things up and killing each other.

But, then again, I came around to that thought a few conversations with my roomie when we had been discussing the 613 mitzvoht that the Jews follow. Not every rule is for every Jewish person, because it covers everyone in the community, and what is required for a butcher isn't the same as what is required for a priest. The 613 mitzvoht according to the rabbi giving the lecture was so that the community as a whole would be functioning properly and running smooth.

The Ten Commandments are a summary of the 613 laws in the OT. What we realize is that we cannot perfectly follow it like Jesus. It means we end up as sinners and need to be saved by God's mercy and grace.

So god makes it too hard not to sin so we then need to go kiss his ass for forgiveness. You're such a pussy.

 

[Taz]

You didn't answer my question.

He gave us free will to choose with that free will to listen to him and love him and appreciate all the good things. Few even know him.

Having to choose something or get punished isn't free will.

Not any different in our society now. Are you arguing I don’t have a choice in breaking a law or not? Seems to me the evidence that we do is overwhelming.

So you’re saying that god is like a police state. God’s watching what we do to punish us if we step out of line?

No. I am arguing that God is the opposite of a police state. A police state would be a state that prevented you from violating it's laws. A real hands on state. God allows you to break them. A real hands off state.

But if you don't follow his commands, he punishes you. If it smells like a police state...

 

[Taz]

I've got a hunch that you're pissing Him off as well. Why do I say this? Because no man can know the mind of God, and you just said that you know how God feels about a poster, and to what degree He feels that. How do you know what God thinks about Taz?

Hate to tell you, but every relationship that God has with a person is unique and between God and that person ONLY.

Then I can only say you haven't read the Bible very well. The Bible is God's word and we start to understand how he thinks. He thinks like us, i.e. we are created in his image. I would say how we think and feel about good and evil and justice is innate. He gave us his objective moral values in the ten commandments.

How do I know that God is angry with Taz? It's intuition. I think God will send him warnings.

Would you accept the things Taz says if he were talking about you? Of course not.

Now, does it give me the right to condemn Taz and punish him directly? No. We have had many holier than thou people who end up doing this. They may think it's fair to say God hates this and that. They may say it's okay to condemn them, tie them to the stake, and get rid of them. Is this what you're accusing me of?

I have left Taz to his own devices. All he was doing is asking questions in order to tweak Christians' noses. He claims to be agnostic and asks a lot of questions, but he doesn't learn anything from it. He's already made up his mind. He needs proof of God. He doesn't have an open mind nor try to understand the Christian viewpoint.

As for your last sentence, I would agree. I don't think Taz has a relationship with God because he needs proof of God. He doesn't think he exists, but I have been patiently explaining God to him and how he works. He chooses to think God exists if only to be evil.

I’m still waiting for your empirical evidence for god. You said you had some.

If you cared about living a full and rewarding life and your children leading a full and rewarding life, you’d go out and find it yourself. It’s there. I’ve shown it to you plenty of times.

All you have is fartsmoke, with gusts up to wishful thinking.

Like I wrote before... If you cared about living a full and rewarding life and your children leading a full and rewarding life, you’d go out and find it yourself. It’s there. I’ve shown it to you plenty of times.

So it is your loss, not mine.

My life is already full and rewarding, yours must not be because you need something make believe to make it full and rewarding.

 

[Taz]

I’m still waiting for your empirical evidence for god. You said you had some.

Haha. See what I mean. You have not passed go. You have not collected the $200.

This is why you are a simpleton and why it's a waste of time to explain.

I've provided so much and have explained God's creation in six days. You cannot explain why the universe, Earth, everything in it including us are here. You put the creation science theories and the evidence together and the other explanations fall by the wayside.

So far, I've seen much greater men than you die without learning about their own theories. Carl Sagan died not understanding why there was no alien contact. Stephen Hawking died not knowing why we are here. Thus, we are waiting for you to kick the bucket saying, "I'm still waiting for your empirical evidence..."

The greatest thing an atheist ever said was, "God has to convince every single non-believer that he exists." Pain and suffering is a strong persuader.

Wow, that's a lot of fartsmoke for one post. But still, there was no empirical evidence in it. I'll keep waiting.

 

[Taz]

I've got a hunch that you're pissing Him off as well. Why do I say this? Because no man can know the mind of God, and you just said that you know how God feels about a poster, and to what degree He feels that. How do you know what God thinks about Taz?

Hate to tell you, but every relationship that God has with a person is unique and between God and that person ONLY.

Then I can only say you haven't read the Bible very well. The Bible is God's word and we start to understand how he thinks. He thinks like us, i.e. we are created in his image. I would say how we think and feel about good and evil and justice is innate. He gave us his objective moral values in the ten commandments.

How do I know that God is angry with Taz? It's intuition. I think God will send him warnings.

Would you accept the things Taz says if he were talking about you? Of course not.

Now, does it give me the right to condemn Taz and punish him directly? No. We have had many holier than thou people who end up doing this. They may think it's fair to say God hates this and that. They may say it's okay to condemn them, tie them to the stake, and get rid of them. Is this what you're accusing me of?

I have left Taz to his own devices. All he was doing is asking questions in order to tweak Christians' noses. He claims to be agnostic and asks a lot of questions, but he doesn't learn anything from it. He's already made up his mind. He needs proof of God. He doesn't have an open mind nor try to understand the Christian viewpoint.

As for your last sentence, I would agree. I don't think Taz has a relationship with God because he needs proof of God. He doesn't think he exists, but I have been patiently explaining God to him and how he works. He chooses to think God exists if only to be evil.

I’m still waiting for your empirical evidence for god. You said you had some.

If you cared about living a full and rewarding life and your children leading a full and rewarding life, you’d go out and find it yourself. It’s there. I’ve shown it to you plenty of times.

All you have is fartsmoke, with gusts up to wishful thinking.

Yep, that describes ding's non-sequitur posts. I end up doing .

I'm still waiting for YOUR empirical evidence for god. Maybe you should open a window as well.

 

[james bond]

So you’re saying that god is like a police state. God’s watching what we do to punish us if we step out of line?

You know, I kinda thought that for a few years growing up, but have since figured it out. No, God didn't give us the 7 Noahide commandments of the 10 Commandments just so He could punish us for not following them, He gave them to us to help us grow and survive.

The first 3 commandments tell us to not disrespect God, not to take His name in vain, and to not have any other Gods besides Him. Why? Because He won't help you if you piss Him off by being disrespectful or praying to other Gods.

Thou shalt not murder. Why? If you murder someone, then one of the murdered person's loved ones may come after you for revenge and kill you.

Thou shalt not steal. Why? If you steal something from someone, they may want to kill you.

Thou shalt not bear false witness. Why? Telling the truth is crucial, and if you lie to your doctor about your symptoms, they might miss something and you die.

Honor thy mother and father. They are the ones that brought you here to this world and gave you life. Without them, you wouldn't exist.

Remember the sabbath day. Why? If you don't take some time off to relax and talk with God, you might get stressed and die from a heart attack.

Thou shalt not commit adultery. Why? If you have sex on the sly with someone else's SO, they may want to hunt you down and hurt or kill you.

Thou shalt not covet. Why? If you are jealous of what your neighbor has, you might be tempted to steal it, or possibly hurt them to get it, which is against 2 other commands.

The way I see it, the 10 Commandments are there to help us keep from messing things up and killing each other.

But, then again, I came around to that thought a few conversations with my roomie when we had been discussing the 613 mitzvoht that the Jews follow. Not every rule is for every Jewish person, because it covers everyone in the community, and what is required for a butcher isn't the same as what is required for a priest. The 613 mitzvoht according to the rabbi giving the lecture was so that the community as a whole would be functioning properly and running smooth.

The Ten Commandments are a summary of the 613 laws in the OT. What we realize is that we cannot perfectly follow it like Jesus. It means we end up as sinners and need to be saved by God's mercy and grace.

So god makes it too hard not to sin so we then need to go kiss his ass for forgiveness. You're such a pussy.

Haha. You kinda gone off the deep end Taz. You will always question God and think that he is the opposite of what he is. God is good. Satan is bad. Instead, you have up is down, and down is up. This is clear in all your posts even if they are in the form of questions and your claims of being agnostic. Shrug. What more can I say?

 

[Taz]

So you’re saying that god is like a police state. God’s watching what we do to punish us if we step out of line?

You know, I kinda thought that for a few years growing up, but have since figured it out. No, God didn't give us the 7 Noahide commandments of the 10 Commandments just so He could punish us for not following them, He gave them to us to help us grow and survive.

The first 3 commandments tell us to not disrespect God, not to take His name in vain, and to not have any other Gods besides Him. Why? Because He won't help you if you piss Him off by being disrespectful or praying to other Gods.

Thou shalt not murder. Why? If you murder someone, then one of the murdered person's loved ones may come after you for revenge and kill you.

Thou shalt not steal. Why? If you steal something from someone, they may want to kill you.

Thou shalt not bear false witness. Why? Telling the truth is crucial, and if you lie to your doctor about your symptoms, they might miss something and you die.

Honor thy mother and father. They are the ones that brought you here to this world and gave you life. Without them, you wouldn't exist.

Remember the sabbath day. Why? If you don't take some time off to relax and talk with God, you might get stressed and die from a heart attack.

Thou shalt not commit adultery. Why? If you have sex on the sly with someone else's SO, they may want to hunt you down and hurt or kill you.

Thou shalt not covet. Why? If you are jealous of what your neighbor has, you might be tempted to steal it, or possibly hurt them to get it, which is against 2 other commands.

The way I see it, the 10 Commandments are there to help us keep from messing things up and killing each other.

But, then again, I came around to that thought a few conversations with my roomie when we had been discussing the 613 mitzvoht that the Jews follow. Not every rule is for every Jewish person, because it covers everyone in the community, and what is required for a butcher isn't the same as what is required for a priest. The 613 mitzvoht according to the rabbi giving the lecture was so that the community as a whole would be functioning properly and running smooth.

The Ten Commandments are a summary of the 613 laws in the OT. What we realize is that we cannot perfectly follow it like Jesus. It means we end up as sinners and need to be saved by God's mercy and grace.

So god makes it too hard not to sin so we then need to go kiss his ass for forgiveness. You're such a pussy.

Haha. You kinda gone off the deep end Taz. You will always question God and think that he is the opposite of what he is. God is good. Satan is bad. Instead, you have up is down, and down is up. This is clear in all your posts even if they are in the form of questions and your claims of being agnostic. Shrug. What more can I say?

Why didn't god simply say: so what if Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge? It's no biggie.

It doesn't make sense that god would create satan then I get accused of following satan. Like seriously, what the fuck do you know?

 

[ding]

Then I can only say you haven't read the Bible very well. The Bible is God's word and we start to understand how he thinks. He thinks like us, i.e. we are created in his image. I would say how we think and feel about good and evil and justice is innate. He gave us his objective moral values in the ten commandments.

How do I know that God is angry with Taz? It's intuition. I think God will send him warnings.

Would you accept the things Taz says if he were talking about you? Of course not.

Now, does it give me the right to condemn Taz and punish him directly? No. We have had many holier than thou people who end up doing this. They may think it's fair to say God hates this and that. They may say it's okay to condemn them, tie them to the stake, and get rid of them. Is this what you're accusing me of?

I have left Taz to his own devices. All he was doing is asking questions in order to tweak Christians' noses. He claims to be agnostic and asks a lot of questions, but he doesn't learn anything from it. He's already made up his mind. He needs proof of God. He doesn't have an open mind nor try to understand the Christian viewpoint.

As for your last sentence, I would agree. I don't think Taz has a relationship with God because he needs proof of God. He doesn't think he exists, but I have been patiently explaining God to him and how he works. He chooses to think God exists if only to be evil.

I’m still waiting for your empirical evidence for god. You said you had some.

If you cared about living a full and rewarding life and your children leading a full and rewarding life, you’d go out and find it yourself. It’s there. I’ve shown it to you plenty of times.

All you have is fartsmoke, with gusts up to wishful thinking.

Like I wrote before... If you cared about living a full and rewarding life and your children leading a full and rewarding life, you’d go out and find it yourself. It’s there. I’ve shown it to you plenty of times.

So it is your loss, not mine.

My life is already full and rewarding, yours must not be because you need something make believe to make it full and rewarding.

If that were the case you wouldn’t be here discussing something you don’t believe in.

 

[ding]

He gave us free will to choose with that free will to listen to him and love him and appreciate all the good things. Few even know him.

Having to choose something or get punished isn't free will.

Not any different in our society now. Are you arguing I don’t have a choice in breaking a law or not? Seems to me the evidence that we do is overwhelming.

So you’re saying that god is like a police state. God’s watching what we do to punish us if we step out of line?

No. I am arguing that God is the opposite of a police state. A police state would be a state that prevented you from violating it's laws. A real hands on state. God allows you to break them. A real hands off state.

But if you don't follow his commands, he punishes you. If it smells like a police state...

How have you been punished?

 

[alang1216]

We are here because the potential for intelligence to exist existed before space and time itself.

Space and time were created from nothing and evolved until beings which know and create arose.

My eyes say different. I have the potential to become the President of the USA but that doesn't mean it will happen.

As for intelligence, the jury is still out on if it is a positive survival attribute or not.

 

[ABikerSailor]

So you’re saying that god is like a police state. God’s watching what we do to punish us if we step out of line?

You know, I kinda thought that for a few years growing up, but have since figured it out. No, God didn't give us the 7 Noahide commandments of the 10 Commandments just so He could punish us for not following them, He gave them to us to help us grow and survive.

The first 3 commandments tell us to not disrespect God, not to take His name in vain, and to not have any other Gods besides Him. Why? Because He won't help you if you piss Him off by being disrespectful or praying to other Gods.

Thou shalt not murder. Why? If you murder someone, then one of the murdered person's loved ones may come after you for revenge and kill you.

Thou shalt not steal. Why? If you steal something from someone, they may want to kill you.

Thou shalt not bear false witness. Why? Telling the truth is crucial, and if you lie to your doctor about your symptoms, they might miss something and you die.

Honor thy mother and father. They are the ones that brought you here to this world and gave you life. Without them, you wouldn't exist.

Remember the sabbath day. Why? If you don't take some time off to relax and talk with God, you might get stressed and die from a heart attack.

Thou shalt not commit adultery. Why? If you have sex on the sly with someone else's SO, they may want to hunt you down and hurt or kill you.

Thou shalt not covet. Why? If you are jealous of what your neighbor has, you might be tempted to steal it, or possibly hurt them to get it, which is against 2 other commands.

The way I see it, the 10 Commandments are there to help us keep from messing things up and killing each other.

But, then again, I came around to that thought a few conversations with my roomie when we had been discussing the 613 mitzvoht that the Jews follow. Not every rule is for every Jewish person, because it covers everyone in the community, and what is required for a butcher isn't the same as what is required for a priest. The 613 mitzvoht according to the rabbi giving the lecture was so that the community as a whole would be functioning properly and running smooth.

The Ten Commandments are a summary of the 613 laws in the OT. What we realize is that we cannot perfectly follow it like Jesus. It means we end up as sinners and need to be saved by God's mercy and grace.

No, the Ten Commandments are NOT a summary of the 613 laws. If you knew anything about the Bible, you would know that the 10 Commandments are basically the 7 Noahide commandments, but with God added into the mix.

 

[ABikerSailor]

So you’re saying that god is like a police state. God’s watching what we do to punish us if we step out of line?

You know, I kinda thought that for a few years growing up, but have since figured it out. No, God didn't give us the 7 Noahide commandments of the 10 Commandments just so He could punish us for not following them, He gave them to us to help us grow and survive.

The first 3 commandments tell us to not disrespect God, not to take His name in vain, and to not have any other Gods besides Him. Why? Because He won't help you if you piss Him off by being disrespectful or praying to other Gods.

Thou shalt not murder. Why? If you murder someone, then one of the murdered person's loved ones may come after you for revenge and kill you.

Thou shalt not steal. Why? If you steal something from someone, they may want to kill you.

Thou shalt not bear false witness. Why? Telling the truth is crucial, and if you lie to your doctor about your symptoms, they might miss something and you die.

Honor thy mother and father. They are the ones that brought you here to this world and gave you life. Without them, you wouldn't exist.

Remember the sabbath day. Why? If you don't take some time off to relax and talk with God, you might get stressed and die from a heart attack.

Thou shalt not commit adultery. Why? If you have sex on the sly with someone else's SO, they may want to hunt you down and hurt or kill you.

Thou shalt not covet. Why? If you are jealous of what your neighbor has, you might be tempted to steal it, or possibly hurt them to get it, which is against 2 other commands.

The way I see it, the 10 Commandments are there to help us keep from messing things up and killing each other.

But, then again, I came around to that thought a few conversations with my roomie when we had been discussing the 613 mitzvoht that the Jews follow. Not every rule is for every Jewish person, because it covers everyone in the community, and what is required for a butcher isn't the same as what is required for a priest. The 613 mitzvoht according to the rabbi giving the lecture was so that the community as a whole would be functioning properly and running smooth.

The Ten Commandments are a summary of the 613 laws in the OT. What we realize is that we cannot perfectly follow it like Jesus. It means we end up as sinners and need to be saved by God's mercy and grace.

So god makes it too hard not to sin so we then need to go kiss his ass for forgiveness. You're such a pussy.

Haha. You kinda gone off the deep end Taz. You will always question God and think that he is the opposite of what he is. God is good. Satan is bad. Instead, you have up is down, and down is up. This is clear in all your posts even if they are in the form of questions and your claims of being agnostic. Shrug. What more can I say?

Why didn't god simply say: so what if Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge? It's no biggie.

It doesn't make sense that god would create satan then I get accused of following satan. Like seriously, what the fuck do you know?

Maybe God WOULD have said it was no biggie if Adam and Eve had taken responsibility for their actions. But, Adam blamed Eve, and Eve blamed the Serpent, and nobody took responsibility for what they did.

The original sin wasn't that they ate from the tree, it was they didn't take responsibility for their actions.

 

[ding]

We are here because the potential for intelligence to exist existed before space and time itself.

Space and time were created from nothing and evolved until beings which know and create arose.

My eyes say different. I have the potential to become the President of the USA but that doesn't mean it will happen.

As for intelligence, the jury is still out on if it is a positive survival attribute or not.

But someone will be. Same for intelligence.

It isn’t about survivability. Everything dies.

It is about the evolution of space and time and it’s undeniable evolution to ever increasing complexity.

Intelligence like life can not be contained. It’s development is inevitable according to the laws of nature.

 

[james bond]

Maybe God WOULD have said it was no biggie if Adam and Eve had taken responsibility for their actions. But, Adam blamed Eve, and Eve blamed the Serpent, and nobody took responsibility for what they did.

The original sin wasn't that they ate from the tree, it was they didn't take responsibility for their actions.

The original sin was they disobeyed God. I also agree that they didn't take responsibility and passed the blame. However, that is not the sum total of the sin. The Calvinist view goes further to state, the human heart became “deceitful above all things and beyond cure.” Would you agree with this?

The mind blowing part is A&E and the human race ended up as deceivers to God as our nature.

I suppose that means that if we sin, then we try to cleanse the evidence of our sins instead of repenting our sins. That could entail passing the buck. It could mean we lust after our neighbor's spouse or what they have. It may mean stealing something that we want because we won't get caught. It may mean we pass gossip about someone because it is "juicy" or because who do not like them. I mean we don't think of living our lives as sin or not, but isn't this what happens?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Maybe God WOULD have said it was no biggie if Adam and Eve had taken responsibility for their actions. But, Adam blamed Eve, and Eve blamed the Serpent, and nobody took responsibility for what they did.

The original sin wasn't that they ate from the tree, it was they didn't take responsibility for their actions.

The original sin was they disobeyed God. I also agree that they didn't take responsibility and passed the blame. However, that is not the sum total of the sin. The Calvinist view goes further to state, the human heart became “deceitful above all things and beyond cure.” Would you agree with this?

The mind blowing part is A&E and the human race ended up as deceivers to God as our nature.

I suppose that means that if we sin, then we try to cleanse the evidence of our sins instead of repenting our sins. That could entail passing the buck. It could mean we lust after our neighbor's spouse or what they have. It may mean stealing something that we want because we won't get caught. It may mean we pass gossip about someone because it is "juicy" or because who do not like them. I mean we don't think of living our lives as sin or not, but isn't this what happens?

Sorry, but the opinion of the rabbi that gave the lecture was that they didn't take responsibility for their actions.

 

[james bond]

Why didn't god simply say: so what if Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge? It's no biggie.

It doesn't make sense that god would create satan then I get accused of following satan. Like seriously, what the fuck do you know?

Last part first. God didn't make Satan. He created Lucifer who became his best angel. God also gave him free will. So, we all know this ended up as God creating hell. Will you accept that? Hell came before us.

If I don't know anything, then why the fuck are you such an idiotard to continue asking questions of me and talking with me. You're the one who is agnostic, but thinks God is evil and doesn't recognize Satan. You do not give your opinions of him. Why can't you admit Satan tempted A&E to sin? Why can't you admit Satan shapes my attitudes towards God? Why can't you admit I don't care if I go to hell or not? Why can't you just say who gives a fuck if I go to hell and live in pain and suffering forever?

As for your first sentence, you do not understand that A&E ate the forbidden fruit and we became deceivers to God with a sin nature, i.e. we can't help but sin. It's in our heart to sin, so we are doomed to go to hell forever and ever.

The #1 over-the-counter medicine sold are pain relievers. The #1 prescription medicine prescribed are opioids for pain relief. This is evidence that we are paying the price for our sinful nature of being deceivers to God. That is your idea of no biggie.

 

[james bond]

Maybe God WOULD have said it was no biggie if Adam and Eve had taken responsibility for their actions. But, Adam blamed Eve, and Eve blamed the Serpent, and nobody took responsibility for what they did.

The original sin wasn't that they ate from the tree, it was they didn't take responsibility for their actions.

The original sin was they disobeyed God. I also agree that they didn't take responsibility and passed the blame. However, that is not the sum total of the sin. The Calvinist view goes further to state, the human heart became “deceitful above all things and beyond cure.” Would you agree with this?

The mind blowing part is A&E and the human race ended up as deceivers to God as our nature.

I suppose that means that if we sin, then we try to cleanse the evidence of our sins instead of repenting our sins. That could entail passing the buck. It could mean we lust after our neighbor's spouse or what they have. It may mean stealing something that we want because we won't get caught. It may mean we pass gossip about someone because it is "juicy" or because who do not like them. I mean we don't think of living our lives as sin or not, but isn't this what happens?

Sorry, but the opinion of the rabbi that gave the lecture was that they didn't take responsibility for their actions.

That's the Judaism view. Not the Christian view. The Bible best reflects the Calvinist view.

But that's beside the point. You do not think that we are of sinful nature and deceivers to God? We had one atheist point out this being sinful is our nature, so we should not be concerned about it. His perception is right about the first part, but ends up dreadfully wrong about the second.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Why didn't god simply say: so what if Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge? It's no biggie.

It doesn't make sense that god would create satan then I get accused of following satan. Like seriously, what the fuck do you know?

Last part first. God didn't make Satan. He created Lucifer who became his best angel. God also gave him free will. So, we all know this ended up as God creating hell. Will you accept that? Hell came before us.

If I don't know anything, then why the fuck are you such an idiotard to continue asking questions of me and talking with me. You're the one who is agnostic, but thinks God is evil and doesn't recognize Satan. You do not give your opinions of him. Why can't you admit Satan tempted A&E to sin? Why can't you admit Satan shapes my attitudes towards God? Why can't you admit I don't care if I go to hell or not? Why can't you just say who gives a fuck if I go to hell and live in pain and suffering forever?

As for your first sentence, you do not understand that A&E ate the forbidden fruit and we became deceivers to God with a sin nature, i.e. we can't help but sin. It's in our heart to sin, so we are doomed to go to hell forever and ever.

The #1 over-the-counter medicine sold are pain relievers. The #1 prescription medicine prescribed are opioids for pain relief. This is evidence that we are paying the price for our sinful nature of being deceivers to God. That is your idea of no biggie.

No, Lucifer did not have free will as you are asserting. No angel had free will, which is what made the creation of man so unique.

Lucifer was thrown out of heaven because of excessive pride, and was thinking he was as good as God. And, apparently, it generated free will in Lucifer, which he used to revolt against God.

How Did Lucifer Fall and Become Satan?

Who is Lucifer, Why did He Rebel?
Our text tells us that this king was a created being and left the creative hand of God in a perfect state (Ezekiel 28:12,15). And he remained perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him (verse 15b). What was this iniquity? We read in verse 17, “Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor.” Lucifer apparently became so impressed with his own beauty, intelligence, power, and position that he began to desire for himself the honor and glory that belonged to God alone. The sin that corrupted Lucifer was self-generated pride.


Apparently, this represents the actual beginning of sin in the universe—preceding the fall of the human Adam by an indeterminate time. Sin originated in the free will of Lucifer in which—with full understanding of the issues involved—he chose to rebel against the Creator.

This mighty angelic being was rightfully judged by God: “I threw you to the earth” (Ezekiel 28:18). This doesn’t mean that Satan had no further access to heaven, for other Scripture verses clearly indicate that Satan maintained this access even after his fall (Job 1:6-12; Zechariah 3:1,2). However, Ezekiel 28:18 indicates that Satan was absolutely and completely cast out of God’s heavenly government and his place of authority (Luke 10:18).

 

[james bond]

Why didn't god simply say: so what if Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge? It's no biggie.

It doesn't make sense that god would create satan then I get accused of following satan. Like seriously, what the fuck do you know?

Last part first. God didn't make Satan. He created Lucifer who became his best angel. God also gave him free will. So, we all know this ended up as God creating hell. Will you accept that? Hell came before us.

If I don't know anything, then why the fuck are you such an idiotard to continue asking questions of me and talking with me. You're the one who is agnostic, but thinks God is evil and doesn't recognize Satan. You do not give your opinions of him. Why can't you admit Satan tempted A&E to sin? Why can't you admit Satan shapes my attitudes towards God? Why can't you admit I don't care if I go to hell or not? Why can't you just say who gives a fuck if I go to hell and live in pain and suffering forever?

As for your first sentence, you do not understand that A&E ate the forbidden fruit and we became deceivers to God with a sin nature, i.e. we can't help but sin. It's in our heart to sin, so we are doomed to go to hell forever and ever.

The #1 over-the-counter medicine sold are pain relievers. The #1 prescription medicine prescribed are opioids for pain relief. This is evidence that we are paying the price for our sinful nature of being deceivers to God. That is your idea of no biggie.

No, Lucifer did not have free will as you are asserting. No angel had free will, which is what made the creation of man so unique.

Lucifer was thrown out of heaven because of excessive pride, and was thinking he was as good as God. And, apparently, it generated free will in Lucifer, which he used to revolt against God.

How Did Lucifer Fall and Become Satan?

Who is Lucifer, Why did He Rebel?
Our text tells us that this king was a created being and left the creative hand of God in a perfect state (Ezekiel 28:12,15). And he remained perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him (verse 15b). What was this iniquity? We read in verse 17, “Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor.” Lucifer apparently became so impressed with his own beauty, intelligence, power, and position that he began to desire for himself the honor and glory that belonged to God alone. The sin that corrupted Lucifer was self-generated pride.


Apparently, this represents the actual beginning of sin in the universe—preceding the fall of the human Adam by an indeterminate time. Sin originated in the free will of Lucifer in which—with full understanding of the issues involved—he chose to rebel against the Creator.

This mighty angelic being was rightfully judged by God: “I threw you to the earth” (Ezekiel 28:18). This doesn’t mean that Satan had no further access to heaven, for other Scripture verses clearly indicate that Satan maintained this access even after his fall (Job 1:6-12; Zechariah 3:1,2). However, Ezekiel 28:18 indicates that Satan was absolutely and completely cast out of God’s heavenly government and his place of authority (Luke 10:18).

That was after. It is better to understand what the Bible says from it than to have someone interpret it for you.

We know that angels have will just like we have will. "and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will." 2 Timothy 2:26 It is free will because they had the ability to choose "And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—" Jude 6

The problem is it isn't explicitly stated that God gave them free will, but is implicit. We know from what you stated that Lucifer had a disagreement with God and wanted the same honor and glory that belonged to God alone. I assume this meant that Lucifer had a will. We know it was free will because the angels who followed Lucifer were able to choose to go with him. I think we agree that Lucifer created the first sin, and thus the angels who chose to go with Lucifer wanted to sin.

Now, I may be wrong as to the following because I assume that the angels can choose to sin or not while we cannot claim the same. Adan and Eve were able to choose, but we are born into their sin and really don't have much choice but to sin. Otherwise, there will be someone without sin in our midst.

ETA: Today, I think most of us choose not to sin, but we can't help it. We end up in sin and the different denominations have come up with ways to cleanse our sin. We have laws against sinful behavior, so one could end up in jail for those behaviors even though they aren't specified as sin. To me sin, is against God and what he states as objective moral values in the Ten Commandments.