The ten commandments

[pillars]

Should we follow them: yay or nay?

Requires people to follow the judeo-christian god? Kinda goes against the 1st Amendment, doesn't it?


And I know lots and lots of christians who are not really fond of the 8th one.

Why would following the ten commandments be problematic for the first amendment?

commandments 1-4 state that all other gods but yhwh are false gods and not to be worshipped. Derp.

 

[The Professor]

The Ten Commandments are the legal and moral foundation for Western Civilization. If everyone even remotely followed even parts of it, we wouldn't be having all the wars and suffering. Unfortunately, since we as humans are sinners the Ten Commandments are hard to follow. We all break them several times each day.

Speak for yourself. I haven't violated a single Commandment in over half a century. It is easy to follow these simple rules. In fact, you can adhere to the Ten Commandments and have a grand old time. You can fornicate to your heart's desire, drink, smoke pot, gamble, indulge yourself with your favorite foods, watch countless hours of sports on TV, travel the world and engage in every sensual pleasure except for that which involves adultery.

Out of curiosity, which Commandments do you break several times every day? I bet you'll say that "covet" part. The word "covet" means to seriously desire something that belongs to someone else. Maybe you have a problem with that but I do not. Those who have lived a full rich rewarding life covet nothing. Only those who feel lacking covet.

Well you are perfect, I'm not. Your arrogance in itself is a sin. There's a specific word for your type in the OT, ah yes, "stiff necked". Doing business and getting ahead in life is to covet, plot and / or take what others have. I'm also sure that if you ever saw a pretty woman wearing revealing attire, you would never check her out, cause you were too busy being perfect and thinking about God, right? Just like attorneys never "bear false witness", sure sure. LOL

I'm stiff-necked? Thanks for the laugh. As I said in my first response “You can fornicate to your heart's desire, drink, smoke pot, gamble, indulge yourself with your favorite foods, watch countless hours of sports on TV, travel the world and engage in every sensual pleasure except that which involves adultery” without violating the Ten Commandments. You can even lie as long as the lie doesn't involve bearing false witness (the Bible does condemn lying, but lying is not mentioned in the Ten Commandments). Does that sound stiff-necked to you?

As for bearing false witness as an attorney: never happened. Attorneys are advocates, not witnesses. An attorney could be disbarred for lying to the Court and I'm sure most attorneys don't. One of the things I was taught in Ethics class in law school involved an attorney's obligation when defending a client he knows is guilty. The attorney is not allowed to let his client take the stand to profess his innocence. Further, the attorney cannot tell the jury his client is innocent. The attorney may attack the evidence and argue the State has not proven its case and therefore the jury must find him innocent but he cannot come out and say his client is innocent.

Do I check out pretty girls? Of course, but I don't “covet” them. To covet means to seriously desire what someone else has. Perhaps you want to possess every scantily clad cutie you see, but I do not. I have a wife and she is the only one I want to share a bed with. Period. I do appreciate your honesty in admitting that your spouse cannot trust you.

You don't realize it, but you called me a sinner because I obey the Ten Commandments! That's some really funny stuff. Do you consider yourself to be a Christian? The Bible says, “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him ” (1 John 2:3-5, KJV). Further, when Christ himself was asked what one must do to inherit eternal life, He responded by saying “Keep the Commandments” (See Matthew 19:16-21; Mark 10:17-21 and Luke 18:18-22).

Now, I am tired of your ignorance and false accusations and I am done with you and this thread.

 

[ChrisL]

Geez, I'm glad I don't have a religion to make my life SO complicated. I just try to live to the best of my ability. Although I can be a bitch sometimes, I try to not hurt anyone else, and that is not because of any religious beliefs but because of something that exists in ME that makes me NOT want to hurt other people. Nothing to do with a "god" though.

 

[Roudy]

The Ten Commandments are the legal and moral foundation for Western Civilization. If everyone even remotely followed even parts of it, we wouldn't be having all the wars and suffering. Unfortunately, since we as humans are sinners the Ten Commandments are hard to follow. We all break them several times each day.

Speak for yourself. I haven't violated a single Commandment in over half a century. It is easy to follow these simple rules. In fact, you can adhere to the Ten Commandments and have a grand old time. You can fornicate to your heart's desire, drink, smoke pot, gamble, indulge yourself with your favorite foods, watch countless hours of sports on TV, travel the world and engage in every sensual pleasure except for that which involves adultery.

Out of curiosity, which Commandments do you break several times every day? I bet you'll say that "covet" part. The word "covet" means to seriously desire something that belongs to someone else. Maybe you have a problem with that but I do not. Those who have lived a full rich rewarding life covet nothing. Only those who feel lacking covet.

Well you are perfect, I'm not. Your arrogance in itself is a sin. There's a specific word for your type in the OT, ah yes, "stiff necked". Doing business and getting ahead in life is to covet, plot and / or take what others have. I'm also sure that if you ever saw a pretty woman wearing revealing attire, you would never check her out, cause you were too busy being perfect and thinking about God, right? Just like attorneys never "bear false witness", sure sure. LOL

I'm stiff-necked? Thanks for the laugh. As I said in my first response “You can fornicate to your heart's desire, drink, smoke pot, gamble, indulge yourself with your favorite foods, watch countless hours of sports on TV, travel the world and engage in every sensual pleasure except that which involves adultery” without violating the Ten Commandments. You can even lie as long as the lie doesn't involve bearing false witness (the Bible does condemn lying, but lying is not mentioned in the Ten Commandments). Does that sound stiff-necked to you?

As for bearing false witness as an attorney: never happened. Attorneys are advocates, not witnesses. An attorney could be disbarred for lying to the Court and I'm sure most attorneys don't. One of the things I was taught in Ethics class in law school involved an attorney's obligation when defending a client he knows is guilty. The attorney is not allowed to let his client take the stand to profess his innocence. Further, the attorney cannot tell the jury his client is innocent. The attorney may attack the evidence and argue the State has not proven its case and therefore the jury must find him innocent but he cannot come out and say his client is innocent.

Do I check out pretty girls? Of course, but I don't “covet” them. To covet means to seriously desire what someone else has. Perhaps you want to possess every scantily clad cutie you see, but I do not. I have a wife and she is the only one I want to share a bed with. Period. I do appreciate your honesty in admitting that your spouse cannot trust you.

You don't realize it, but you called me a sinner because I obey the Ten Commandments! That's some really funny stuff. Do you consider yourself to be a Christian? The Bible says, “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him ” (1 John 2:3-5, KJV). Further, when Christ himself was asked what one must do to inherit eternal life, He responded by saying “Keep the Commandments” (See Matthew 19:16-21; Mark 10:17-21 and Luke 18:18-22).

Now, I am tired of your ignorance and false accusations and I am done with you and this thread.

The fact that you check out girls means you covet them, go ask your priest. Nothing wrong with it. And attorneys claims innocence and lie all the time. What planet do you live on? We are born sinners, it's a human condition. At least I am honest enough with myself to admit that.

 

[Roudy]

Well I didn't know you are a woman. And you have every right to worship or not worship. I am not a religious person myself but the Ten Commandments are a great set of rules for societies to live by. We as humans do lie and say falsehoods knowingly and unknowingly and I am sure you at times have been jealous, which is natural, but even that is breaking the Ten Commandments. And if you say that you've never lied or coveted something others have then you are lying.

The 10 commandments don't mention lying, they mention bearing false witness. I've never impeached someone's character falsely. I also don't covet people's spouses, property, or slaves. It's not in my nature.

I am not sure that you even have read the 10 commandments recently, and yet, you think they are wonderful. You are not religious, but you want people in the U.S. to be bound to commandments 1-4, which state that there are no other gods than YHWH? How does that square with the first amendment?

I do not think you have given this much thought or study.

Can you even list all 10 commandments?

I know the Ten Commandments. I never said I want people to be bound to them. I said they are a great set of ideals and values for all of us to aspire to. Only extremely devout and religious people can stay true to the Ten Commandments, and even then.

 

[rightwinger]

To be honest, the day God wrote the ten commandments was not his best day
I could have done a better job

First of all...God wastes four commandments on "You better worship me or else" kind of petty and self serving. If you are that good a God, you do not have to order people to worship you

Thou shall not kill, steal, adultery, bear false witness...Good commandments

Honor your father and mother...what about honoring and taking care of your children? That should be a commandment

Thou shall not covet? A thought crime makes it as commandment?

What is missing? Moses spends years leading the Jews out of bondage and God doesn't make a commandment against slavery?
Nothing against assault?
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you should have been a commandment

 

[ChrisL]

To be honest, the day God wrote the ten commandments was not his best day
I could have done a better job

First of all...God wastes four commandments on "You better worship me or else" kind of pety and self serving. If you are that good a God, you do not have to order people to worship you

Thou shall not kill, steal, adultery, bear false witness...Good commandments

Honor your father and mother...what about honoring and taking care of your children? That should be a commandment

Thou shall not covet? A thought crime makes it as commandment?

What is missing? Moses spends years leading the Jews out of bondage and God doesn't make a commandment against slavery?
Nothing against assault?
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you should have been a commandment

If you are on the outside looking in, the entire concept of "some people" going to Heaven and others going to Hell after death is utterly ridiculous anyways. If you suspend your "beliefs" for just a moment and look at the situation like a logical human being, it's quite easy to see what a scam it really is! The biggest and best scam in the history of mankind! Those guys who wrote the bible were like ancient trolls!

 

[rightwinger]

To be honest, the day God wrote the ten commandments was not his best day
I could have done a better job

First of all...God wastes four commandments on "You better worship me or else" kind of pety and self serving. If you are that good a God, you do not have to order people to worship you

Thou shall not kill, steal, adultery, bear false witness...Good commandments

Honor your father and mother...what about honoring and taking care of your children? That should be a commandment

Thou shall not covet? A thought crime makes it as commandment?

What is missing? Moses spends years leading the Jews out of bondage and God doesn't make a commandment against slavery?
Nothing against assault?
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you should have been a commandment

If you are on the outside looking in, the entire concept of "some people" going to Heaven and others going to Hell after death is utterly ridiculous anyways. If you suspend your "beliefs" for just a moment and look at the situation like a logical human being, it's quite easy to see what a scam it really is! The biggest and best scam in the history of mankind! Those guys who wrote the bible were like ancient trolls!

It is a simple concept ....carrot and the stick
Do what you are told and you get the carrot.....otherwise you get the stick

A common thread of all religions is that if you dare to question what you are being told....you will be punished severely

 

[Meriweather]

First of all...God wastes four commandments on "You better worship me or else" kind of petty and self serving. If you are that good a God, you do not have to order people to worship you

Three Commandments, not four. The first Commandment is not, "worship me or else", it tells us what should be our first priority: Loving God and His ways.

The second Commandment advises when we call on God, it should never be us as Master and God as our personal Genii. Nor are we to ever threaten others with God. Both are using God's name in vain.

Keep holy the Lord's Day is about spending one day a week with the Lord and things of the Lord rather than in the world among the temptations of the world.

These three Commandments are less about ordering people to worship and more about advising people what priority will lead to the most fulfilling life.

 

[Meriweather]

Thou shall not covet? A thought crime makes it as commandment?

In the Hebrew language, the word for 'covet' is not linked to thoughts, but rather with actual plans to take possession. For example, when Jews would leave their land and possessions to go to Jerusalem for one of the high holidays, people were not to covet the land of the travelers. In this passage, the word 'take' is added to 'covet'. One must not make plans and take over his neighbor's land and possessions.

 

[rightwinger]

Thou shall not covet? A thought crime makes it as commandment?

In the Hebrew language, the word for 'covet' is not linked to thoughts, but rather with actual plans to take possession. For example, when Jews would leave their land and possessions to go to Jerusalem for one of the high holidays, people were not to covet the land of the travelers. In this passage, the word 'take' is added to 'covet'. One must not make plans and take over his neighbor's land and possessions.

Hence: Thou shall not steal
When covet becomes a crime

Thou shall not commit adultery
When coveting thy neighbors wife becomes a crime

Covet is a good thing. It gets you to aspire to accomplish more in your life. I covet my neighbors house. Doesn't mean I want to steal it, just that I would like to someday own one like it

 

[rightwinger]

First of all...God wastes four commandments on "You better worship me or else" kind of petty and self serving. If you are that good a God, you do not have to order people to worship you

Three Commandments, not four. The first Commandment is not, "worship me or else", it tells us what should be our first priority: Loving God and His ways.

The second Commandment advises when we call on God, it should never be us as Master and God as our personal Genii. Nor are we to ever threaten others with God. Both are using God's name in vain.

Keep holy the Lord's Day is about spending one day a week with the Lord and things of the Lord rather than in the world among the temptations of the world.

These three Commandments are less about ordering people to worship and more about advising people what priority will lead to the most fulfilling life.

You left out: Thy shall not take the lords name in vain

Another commandment based on the insecurity of God. You had better worship me or else. You had better pray to me weekly or else. You better not worship anyone but me. You better not take my name in vain

God wastes four commandments on himself. A secure God realizes people will do these things without being ordered to do so

 

[Meriweather]

Hence: Thou shall not steal
When covet becomes a crime

Thou shall not commit adultery
When coveting thy neighbors wife becomes a crime

Covet is a good thing. It gets you to aspire to accomplish more in your life. I covet my neighbors house. Doesn't mean I want to steal it, just that I would like to someday own one like it

In the Hebrew language there is a difference between a wish or a passing desire and to covet. Covet involves making plans.

In your example of saying you covet your neighbor's house, you contradict yourself. In the Hebrew language, coveting is not a wish/desire for a house like it. Coveting is you making plans to take over your neighbor's house.

Let's take the story of David, Uriah, and Bathsheba. David coveted Bathsheba, so he made plans to get Uriah out of the way so that he might have Bathsheba. It was all very legitimate...and all very wrong.

 

[rightwinger]

Hence: Thou shall not steal
When covet becomes a crime

Thou shall not commit adultery
When coveting thy neighbors wife becomes a crime

Covet is a good thing. It gets you to aspire to accomplish more in your life. I covet my neighbors house. Doesn't mean I want to steal it, just that I would like to someday own one like it

In the Hebrew language there is a difference between a wish or a passing desire and to covet. Covet involves making plans.

In your example of saying you covet your neighbor's house, you contradict yourself. In the Hebrew language, coveting is not a wish/desire for a house like it. Coveting is you making plans to take over your neighbor's house.

Let's take the story of David, Uriah, and Bathsheba. David coveted Bathsheba, so he made plans to get Uriah out of the way so that he might have Bathsheba. It was all very legitimate...and all very wrong.

Once again...making plans is a thought crime
You have done nothing wrong

Once you actually take your neighbors home or a neighbors wife....then you have committed a sin

There is no room for thought crimes in my commandments

 

[Meriweather]

[
You left out: Thy shall not take the lords name in vain

Another commandment based on the insecurity of God. You had better worship me or else. You had better pray to me weekly or else. You better not worship anyone but me. You better not take my name in vain

No, I didn't leave it out; it is covered it in my second paragraph. You and I are beginning from different premises, and therefore are arriving at two different conclusions about God. You are starting with a God you view as insecure, whereas I view God as a most secure Being who wants us to be secure as well.

 

[Meriweather]

Once again...making plans is a thought crime
You have done nothing wrong

Once you actually take your neighbors home or a neighbors wife....then you have committed a sin

There is no room for thought crimes in my commandments

David coveted Bathsheba, so he made plans to get Uriah out of the way so that he might have Bathsheba. It was all very legitimate...and all very wrong.

Once Bathsheba was a widow, there was no crime in David marrying her. Nor is a king king or any ruler accused of a crime when his men fall in battle. Therefore, there would have been no crime, no sin...except that David wanted Bathsheba and made plans to attain her legitimately. He went about his plans legally, and tied them up with nice, neat bows. Except...he was guilty of coveting (making plans) to attain precisely what he wanted by legal means.

Would your commandments absolve David (and those like him), declaring them innocent of all wrong-doing? Or, like the original Ten, would you have commandments that cover this type of loophole?

 

[rightwinger]

[
You left out: Thy shall not take the lords name in vain

Another commandment based on the insecurity of God. You had better worship me or else. You had better pray to me weekly or else. You better not worship anyone but me. You better not take my name in vain

No, I didn't leave it out; it is covered it in my second paragraph. You and I are beginning from different premises, and therefore are arriving at two different conclusions about God. You are starting with a God you view as insecure, whereas I view God as a most secure Being who wants us to be secure as well.

Threats of punishment against multiple generations does not seem the actions of a God secure in his position

A secure God would be confident in the love and respect of his people and would not heve to "Comand" anything

 

[rightwinger]

Once again...making plans is a thought crime
You have done nothing wrong

Once you actually take your neighbors home or a neighbors wife....then you have committed a sin

There is no room for thought crimes in my commandments

David coveted Bathsheba, so he made plans to get Uriah out of the way so that he might have Bathsheba. It was all very legitimate...and all very wrong.

Once Bathsheba was a widow, there was no crime in David marrying her. Nor is a king king or any ruler accused of a crime when his men fall in battle. Therefore, there would have been no crime, no sin...except that David wanted Bathsheba and made plans to attain her legitimately. He went about his plans legally, and tied them up with nice, neat bows. Except...he was guilty of coveting (making plans) to attain precisely what he wanted by legal means.

Would your commandments absolve David (and those like him), declaring them innocent of all wrong-doing? Or, like the original Ten, would you have commandments that cover this type of loophole?

No harm, no foul

 

[Dan Daly]

Question: if we did follow them, what would it hurt?

 

[Mr Natural]

Carlin said it best: