The Stupidity Of The Gates Arrest

[DiveCon]

I'd still like to have a link to a source reporting that the DA has stated the arrest was legitimate if anyone ever find one.

unfortunately no one can find one
that doesnt mean it was never said

Sure it was said.

By you guys.

Who repeated it...and made it real.

yeah, keep believing that


because of course, if its not on the internet, it didnt happen

 

[AllieBaba]

Ok, what the hell is paperview's avatar supposed to be? I'm afraid to guess.

 

[Care4all]

Ok, what the hell is paperview's avatar supposed to be? I'm afraid to guess.

ohhhhhhhhh my!

hmmmmm, after looking at it...i think it is precisely what you were thinking it was....!

 

[Anguille]

I'd still like to have a link to a source reporting that the DA has stated the arrest was legitimate if anyone ever find one.

unfortunately no one can find one
that doesnt mean it was never said

Maybe the voices in your head said it.

 

[DiveCon]

I'd still like to have a link to a source reporting that the DA has stated the arrest was legitimate if anyone ever find one.

unfortunately no one can find one
that doesnt mean it was never said

Maybe the voices in your head said it.

i dont have voices in my head like you do

 

[Missourian]

Valerie found it, only it wasn't the District Attorney of Middlesex County

...it was the Massachussetts Attorney General.

Link to audio from last week.


http://media.podcastingmanager.com/41383-80817/Media/072309ebpodcast.mp3

In the first 10 minutes she comments directly on the Gates' arrest and she also specifically addresses the threshold for disorderly conduct.

At around the 34 minute mark a caller asks about the situation again.

 

[Ravi]

With all due respect to Val, there is no statement by Croakley that made either of your claims: The DA has stated repeatedly the officer was well within protocol to arrest Gates and that dropping the charges had no bearing whatsoever on the legitimacy of the arrest.

She didn't say the officer was well within protocol.
She didn't say that dropping the charges had no bearing on the legitimacy of the arrest.

She also implied neither.

In fact she stated repeatedly, just like Obama did, that she didn't know all the facts. I'm surprised you aren't jumping all over her for making that claim and then speculating on what went on.

I found it interesting that Croakley claimed Gates said he was lured outside by the police officer when in fact Gates has said he went out of his own free will and wasn't lured.

 

[Tommy Lucchese]

The legitimacy of an arrest and the ability to prosecute it or sustain an indictment are two totally different things, performed by two different agencies.

This is why the focus of clearance rates for crimes is a red herring, because a clearance doesn't even necessarily mean anyone was even arrested; we should be looking at conviction rates.

 

[Missourian]

She didn't say the officer was well within protocol.
She didn't say that dropping the charges had no bearing on the legitimacy of the arrest.

She also implied neither.

In fact she stated repeatedly, just like Obama did, that she didn't know all the facts. I'm surprised you aren't jumping all over her for making that claim and then speculating on what went on.

I found it interesting that Croakley claimed Gates said he was lured outside by the police officer when in fact Gates has said he went out of his own free will and wasn't lured.

She gave her opinion that the officer was in the right days after the charges were dropped.

As to her knowledge of the case, I stand corrected.

How could I overlook the obvious fact that you and Ang and Care have superior insight into this case...far beyond the resources and connections of a lowly Attorney General of the State of Massachusetts.

 

[paperview]

Valerie found it, only it wasn't the District Attorney of Middlesex County

...it was the Massachussetts Attorney General.

Link to audio from last week.


http://media.podcastingmanager.com/41383-80817/Media/072309ebpodcast.mp3

In the first 10 minutes she comments directly on the Gates' arrest and she also specifically addresses the threshold for disorderly conduct.

At around the 34 minute mark a caller asks about the situation again.

Maybe you can share for us what the Mass AG said at "around the 34 min mark."

 

[editec]

I can't seem to find any facts as to what occured. My guess is that the police arrived, and he refused to cooperate with them. His cooperation would have stopped any escalation. Any reasonable person would be more than willing to show identification, if they were in the same predicament.

I seriously doubt that race had a hand in this. Wasn't one of the officers African-American?

Cops DO NOT, enjoy arresting people. Especially in a case like this. Any arrest amounts to hours of documentation, and scheduled court dates (on their days off no less). And potential liability.

I'm sure that the officer was frustrated. He obviously didn't know the man. Cops don't like arrogance. If you want your encounter with the police to be as pleasant as it possibly can, treat them with the level of respect that you would want to be treated. I'm pretty sure that this wasn't the case in this instance.

This type of response seems to be typical of people not very well informed of the particulars in this case and typical of some who are.

It seems that lots of people are just content to assume that the person wearing the uniform was right. The one with the gun is the boss, no questions asked.

I'm a liberal. It just so happens that I've been around cops all of my life. (father has been in law enforcement since 1976) I have looked and looked for information on this story, and I can't find it.

If you yell at a cop, or act in any threatening manner, odds are great that you are going to be placed in handcuffs. Most of them have either been shot, or shot at. And many of them have wives and young children at home. The most benign-looking person, will be packing heat. Believe it. My father was almost shot once by a grandmother, when she managed to pull his 9 mm from his holster. He was trying to be gentle and not manhandle her. There were criminal charges against her, and the defense attorney totally smeared him in the courtroom, because he had to defend himself physically.

My hunch is that these officers were trying to avoid a similar situation. I realize that this isn't going to go over very well but most police officers aren't paid very well. They work long hours. They go to court on their days off, or after having worked all night. And everyone HATES them. People threatened my father. They threatened to murder us, his family. There is a reason that they are so nervous, and not always patient.

I think most of us, even those of us who aren't especially sympathetic to most cops, understand why cops develop an attitude.

They have to deal with crap all day long, they deal mostly with civilians who are scum, there's always a chance they'll encounter a nutter or a truly bad guy who will off them, too.

But then look at it from most civilians position.

We're innocent people who are paying these people's salaries.

We expect to be treated with respect, and far too often, cops are not respectful (see above for the often good reasons they're not) and so we end up thinking that cops are basically bullies.

This tension between cops and innocent civilians is to be expected.

The cops have the unenviable position of having to deal with people who assume they're assholes because so fucking many cops are (or seem to us to be) arrogant assholes.

 

[Maple]

should be invited for that beer too as she has suffered as much over the attention drawn to her by her own President's remarks. She's upset, been called a racist and lots of other names just for being a good citizen and calling the cops.

If I were professor Gates, I would be thanking that officer and the 9-11 caller for checking me and my property out. It's called lookin out for your neighbors.

 

[Ravi]

Valerie found it, only it wasn't the District Attorney of Middlesex County

...it was the Massachussetts Attorney General.

In the first 10 minutes she comments directly on the Gates' arrest and she also specifically addresses the threshold for disorderly conduct.

At around the 34 minute mark a caller asks about the situation again.

Maybe you can share for us what the Mass AG said at "around the 34 min mark."

I can't figure out the time on the video clip. Is that where Coakley criticizes Obama for making judgments without knowing all the facts and then Coakley makes all kinds of judgments without knowing all the facts?

I especially enjoyed her claim that this is an emotional time for Obama.

 

[Valerie]

Valerie found it, only it wasn't the District Attorney of Middlesex County

...it was the Massachussetts Attorney General.

In the first 10 minutes she comments directly on the Gates' arrest and she also specifically addresses the threshold for disorderly conduct.

At around the 34 minute mark a caller asks about the situation again.

Maybe you can share for us what the Mass AG said at "around the 34 min mark."

Essentially, at that point she said Obama should have STFU.


And BTW - Martha Coakley did properly qualify her statements at the beginning, that she was not privy to all the facts, just as none of us are either... But said according to everything she did know about the case, that there was no indication the police did anything inappropriate and they were only there doing their duty and following proper protocol by verifying Gates' ID and she spoke about people needing to think about it from the officer's point of view. It's all in the first ten minutes of the interview.

People keep projecting all sorts of judgments on the officer when there is NO proof he did anything inappropriate. People are only citing the mere arrest itself as being wrongful and inappropriate, but there is no evidence the police were anything but professional and dispassionate in securing the scene that day.

 

[Anguille]

I found it interesting that Croakley claimed Gates said he was lured outside by the police officer when in fact Gates has said he went out of his own free will and wasn't lured.

Coakley would be more familiar with certain unethical police tactics than Gates. Apparently she recognized one when she saw it whereas Gates is oblivious to having been manipulated.

 

[Missourian]

Valerie found it, only it wasn't the District Attorney of Middlesex County

...it was the Massachussetts Attorney General.

In the first 10 minutes she comments directly on the Gates' arrest and she also specifically addresses the threshold for disorderly conduct.

At around the 34 minute mark a caller asks about the situation again.

Maybe you can share for us what the Mass AG said at "around the 34 min mark."

I wish I could find the text transcript of her remarks, but I couldn't.

Maybe you'll have better luck finding them...as it was your contention that every scrap of information pertinent to Gatesgate is within easy reach on the internet.

 

[Anguille]

The legitimacy of an arrest and the ability to prosecute it or sustain an indictment are two totally different things, performed by two different agencies.

This is why the focus of clearance rates for crimes is a red herring, because a clearance doesn't even necessarily mean anyone was even arrested; we should be looking at conviction rates.

I'm not sure what you mean by "clearance"? Dopped charges?
I agree that it is convictions that matter. Unfortunately, arrests are noted on a person's criminal record and that can adversely affect them their entire lives.

I doubt this arrest will have much effect on Gates future job prospects but for an ordinary person this can be a problem.

 

[Valerie]

I found it interesting that Croakley claimed Gates said he was lured outside by the police officer when in fact Gates has said he went out of his own free will and wasn't lured.

Coakley would be more familiar with certain unethical police tactics than Gates. Apparently she recognized one when she saw it whereas Gates is oblivious to having been manipulated.

No it sounded as if she had knowledge of Mr Gates raising the issue after the fact, which if you listen to the other clip I posted (I'll see if I can find it) He states he was aware at the outset that the officer could arrest him if he stepped outside, which is why he replied to the officer's initial request, "No, I will not!" In the same clip he later admits to proceeding outside after "doing our dance in the kitchen" Mr Gates states that he stepped outside of his own accord.

See how everyone has no problem profiling this cop with his "big ego" and his "unethical tactics" ?

 

[Valerie]

Valerie found it, only it wasn't the District Attorney of Middlesex County

...it was the Massachussetts Attorney General.

Maybe you can share for us what the Mass AG said at "around the 34 min mark."

I wish I could find the text transcript of her remarks, but I couldn't.

Maybe you'll have better luck finding them...as it was your contention that every scrap of information pertinent to Gatesgate is within easy reach on the internet.

I almost took the time last night to write them down, but meh. I'm done with this topic.


Tonight we all drink domestic brew and forget about it!

 

[Tommy Lucchese]

The legitimacy of an arrest and the ability to prosecute it or sustain an indictment are two totally different things, performed by two different agencies.

This is why the focus of clearance rates for crimes is a red herring, because a clearance doesn't even necessarily mean anyone was even arrested; we should be looking at conviction rates.

I'm not sure what you mean by "clearance"? Dopped charges?
I agree that it is convictions that matter. Unfortunately, arrests are noted on a person's criminal record and that can adversely affect them their entire lives.

I doubt this arrest will have much effect on Gates future job prospects but for an ordinary person this can be a problem.

A clearance is when an arrest is considered, for lack of a better word, "solved." There is clearance by arrest, clearance by death of suspect, clearance by inability to file charges on the actor. . .you get the idea.