The solution to corrution is little helicopters.

[SwimExpert]

The problem is not the money in politics. The problem is that it is profitable to ‘donate’ to your politician.

Right. So, like I said. It's money in politics.....

No. Go back and read it again. There is a big difference. You are trying to treat the SYMPTOM rather than the cause and that is not effective.

Your exact words: "The problem is that it is profitable to ‘donate’ to your politician."

That is money. Plain and simple. No way around it. Stop trying to tap dance around into some nonsensical semantics game. Saying "Well, it's not money, per se, that's the problem. It's the exchange of money that's the problem, and the fact that people get something out of doing it" is a ridiculous attempt to over-nuance the situation into absurdity.

No, its not. Again (as you keep ignoring it) you are addressing the SYMPTOM. Money does not buy politics for shits and giggles - it does so to access the power to maximize profit and minimize competition. That is why the money is there. Create all the finance reform you want and the monied interest will flow ion with another deal. Perhaps a 7 figure job waiting after the term is up or a 10 million dollar gift to your brother. It does not matter - the fact is that the corruption will continue until you deal with that root of the problem - the power that the government is selling in the first place.

It is not a difference in nuance or semantics. It is a difference in cutting the cancer out or placing a band-aid over it.

Government will always have power. Taking your view, the only solution would be to dissolve government completely.

 

[FA_Q2]

The problem is not the money in politics. The problem is that it is profitable to ‘donate’ to your politician.

Right. So, like I said. It's money in politics.....

No. Go back and read it again. There is a big difference. You are trying to treat the SYMPTOM rather than the cause and that is not effective.

Your exact words: "The problem is that it is profitable to ‘donate’ to your politician."

That is money. Plain and simple. No way around it. Stop trying to tap dance around into some nonsensical semantics game. Saying "Well, it's not money, per se, that's the problem. It's the exchange of money that's the problem, and the fact that people get something out of doing it" is a ridiculous attempt to over-nuance the situation into absurdity.

No, its not. Again (as you keep ignoring it) you are addressing the SYMPTOM. Money does not buy politics for shits and giggles - it does so to access the power to maximize profit and minimize competition. That is why the money is there. Create all the finance reform you want and the monied interest will flow ion with another deal. Perhaps a 7 figure job waiting after the term is up or a 10 million dollar gift to your brother. It does not matter - the fact is that the corruption will continue until you deal with that root of the problem - the power that the government is selling in the first place.

It is not a difference in nuance or semantics. It is a difference in cutting the cancer out or placing a band-aid over it.

Government will always have power. Taking your view, the only solution would be to dissolve government completely.

Incorrect. Government will always have power – that is correct. However, government should not have the power to kowtow to special interests. That does not mean that it does not exist just that it must apply the law equally. To create law that puts one company ahead of another or gives one special tax considerations that others do not get. Massive regulatory agencies are also a problem. Regulation is required but we have gone far beyond what is necessary.
That power needs to be reigned back in and you will see the money that is put into politicians decrease dramatically. An informed electorate would do massive wonders as well but that is even less likely than reigning back on power….

 

[Freewill]

Could you please define what you mean by corruption.

Then give at least one example of how you have been effected by this corruption.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

As with most problems, the solution that often works the best is a loaded gun in your face. We've become such a pansy culture where we let evil run unchecked when in times past we got rid of it once and for all.

 

[Freewill]

Right. So, like I said. It's money in politics.....

No. Go back and read it again. There is a big difference. You are trying to treat the SYMPTOM rather than the cause and that is not effective.

Your exact words: "The problem is that it is profitable to ‘donate’ to your politician."

That is money. Plain and simple. No way around it. Stop trying to tap dance around into some nonsensical semantics game. Saying "Well, it's not money, per se, that's the problem. It's the exchange of money that's the problem, and the fact that people get something out of doing it" is a ridiculous attempt to over-nuance the situation into absurdity.

No, its not. Again (as you keep ignoring it) you are addressing the SYMPTOM. Money does not buy politics for shits and giggles - it does so to access the power to maximize profit and minimize competition. That is why the money is there. Create all the finance reform you want and the monied interest will flow ion with another deal. Perhaps a 7 figure job waiting after the term is up or a 10 million dollar gift to your brother. It does not matter - the fact is that the corruption will continue until you deal with that root of the problem - the power that the government is selling in the first place.

It is not a difference in nuance or semantics. It is a difference in cutting the cancer out or placing a band-aid over it.

Government will always have power. Taking your view, the only solution would be to dissolve government completely.

Incorrect. Government will always have power – that is correct. However, government should not have the power to kowtow to special interests. That does not mean that it does not exist just that it must apply the law equally. To create law that puts one company ahead of another or gives one special tax considerations that others do not get. Massive regulatory agencies are also a problem. Regulation is required but we have gone far beyond what is necessary.
That power needs to be reigned back in and you will see the money that is put into politicians decrease dramatically. An informed electorate would do massive wonders as well but that is even less likely than reigning back on power….

How about the gay marriage issue as kowtow to a very small special interest?

 

[SwimExpert]

Incorrect. Government will always have power – that is correct. However, government should not have the power to kowtow to special interests.

So block the money! What the fuck do you people want? Everyone to sit around the camp fire and sing Kumbaya and just love their little slice of Utopia so much they'll just be nice always from now on? Pull your heads out of the sand, flowery ideals are not going to solve anything. Sitting there and saying "Well, people should just be nice and do good things" is not going to fix the problem.

 

[FA_Q2]

No. Go back and read it again. There is a big difference. You are trying to treat the SYMPTOM rather than the cause and that is not effective.

Your exact words: "The problem is that it is profitable to ‘donate’ to your politician."

That is money. Plain and simple. No way around it. Stop trying to tap dance around into some nonsensical semantics game. Saying "Well, it's not money, per se, that's the problem. It's the exchange of money that's the problem, and the fact that people get something out of doing it" is a ridiculous attempt to over-nuance the situation into absurdity.

No, its not. Again (as you keep ignoring it) you are addressing the SYMPTOM. Money does not buy politics for shits and giggles - it does so to access the power to maximize profit and minimize competition. That is why the money is there. Create all the finance reform you want and the monied interest will flow ion with another deal. Perhaps a 7 figure job waiting after the term is up or a 10 million dollar gift to your brother. It does not matter - the fact is that the corruption will continue until you deal with that root of the problem - the power that the government is selling in the first place.

It is not a difference in nuance or semantics. It is a difference in cutting the cancer out or placing a band-aid over it.

Government will always have power. Taking your view, the only solution would be to dissolve government completely.

Incorrect. Government will always have power – that is correct. However, government should not have the power to kowtow to special interests. That does not mean that it does not exist just that it must apply the law equally. To create law that puts one company ahead of another or gives one special tax considerations that others do not get. Massive regulatory agencies are also a problem. Regulation is required but we have gone far beyond what is necessary.
That power needs to be reigned back in and you will see the money that is put into politicians decrease dramatically. An informed electorate would do massive wonders as well but that is even less likely than reigning back on power….

How about the gay marriage issue as kowtow to a very small special interest?

Depends on what aspect you are referring to.

 

[FA_Q2]

Incorrect. Government will always have power – that is correct. However, government should not have the power to kowtow to special interests.

So block the money! What the fuck do you people want? Everyone to sit around the camp fire and sing Kumbaya and just love their little slice of Utopia so much they'll just be nice always from now on? Pull your heads out of the sand, flowery ideals are not going to solve anything. Sitting there and saying "Well, people should just be nice and do good things" is not going to fix the problem.

No, I want to address the source because blocking the money accomplishes nothing at all. What are you going to do when elections are completely funded by public coffers and absolutely zero dollars are able to enter the system at all and the major money offers these future politicians an 8 figure salary after they leave office. You think they are going to be any less bought? Or perhaps that million dollar donation to the bother or sister of a politician will have nothing to do with corrupting the politicians interests at all.

The point is that blocking the money is LITERALLY impossible. Period.

 

[SwimExpert]

Incorrect. Government will always have power – that is correct. However, government should not have the power to kowtow to special interests.

So block the money! What the fuck do you people want? Everyone to sit around the camp fire and sing Kumbaya and just love their little slice of Utopia so much they'll just be nice always from now on? Pull your heads out of the sand, flowery ideals are not going to solve anything. Sitting there and saying "Well, people should just be nice and do good things" is not going to fix the problem.

No, I want to address the source because blocking the money accomplishes nothing at all. What are you going to do when elections are completely funded by public coffers and absolutely zero dollars are able to enter the system at all and the major money offers these future politicians an 8 figure salary after they leave office. You think they are going to be any less bought? Or perhaps that million dollar donation to the bother or sister of a politician will have nothing to do with corrupting the politicians interests at all.

The point is that blocking the money is LITERALLY impossible. Period.

Okay then. Let's just all roll over now and die.

 

[FA_Q2]

Incorrect. Government will always have power – that is correct. However, government should not have the power to kowtow to special interests.

So block the money! What the fuck do you people want? Everyone to sit around the camp fire and sing Kumbaya and just love their little slice of Utopia so much they'll just be nice always from now on? Pull your heads out of the sand, flowery ideals are not going to solve anything. Sitting there and saying "Well, people should just be nice and do good things" is not going to fix the problem.

No, I want to address the source because blocking the money accomplishes nothing at all. What are you going to do when elections are completely funded by public coffers and absolutely zero dollars are able to enter the system at all and the major money offers these future politicians an 8 figure salary after they leave office. You think they are going to be any less bought? Or perhaps that million dollar donation to the bother or sister of a politician will have nothing to do with corrupting the politicians interests at all.

The point is that blocking the money is LITERALLY impossible. Period.

Okay then. Let's just all roll over now and die.

Go ahead. I, on the other hand, am going to continue to actually fight against the reasons why our government is corrupt rather than trying to engage the symptoms.

 

[SwimExpert]

Incorrect. Government will always have power – that is correct. However, government should not have the power to kowtow to special interests.

So block the money! What the fuck do you people want? Everyone to sit around the camp fire and sing Kumbaya and just love their little slice of Utopia so much they'll just be nice always from now on? Pull your heads out of the sand, flowery ideals are not going to solve anything. Sitting there and saying "Well, people should just be nice and do good things" is not going to fix the problem.

No, I want to address the source because blocking the money accomplishes nothing at all. What are you going to do when elections are completely funded by public coffers and absolutely zero dollars are able to enter the system at all and the major money offers these future politicians an 8 figure salary after they leave office. You think they are going to be any less bought? Or perhaps that million dollar donation to the bother or sister of a politician will have nothing to do with corrupting the politicians interests at all.

The point is that blocking the money is LITERALLY impossible. Period.

Okay then. Let's just all roll over now and die.

Go ahead. I, on the other hand, am going to continue to actually fight against the reasons why our government is corrupt rather than trying to engage the symptoms.

In other words, you're going to pursue Utopia where everyone and everything is perfect. That's your plan. Chase the butterflies and roll in the grass in a meadow of daisies.

 

[FA_Q2]

Incorrect. Government will always have power – that is correct. However, government should not have the power to kowtow to special interests.

So block the money! What the fuck do you people want? Everyone to sit around the camp fire and sing Kumbaya and just love their little slice of Utopia so much they'll just be nice always from now on? Pull your heads out of the sand, flowery ideals are not going to solve anything. Sitting there and saying "Well, people should just be nice and do good things" is not going to fix the problem.

No, I want to address the source because blocking the money accomplishes nothing at all. What are you going to do when elections are completely funded by public coffers and absolutely zero dollars are able to enter the system at all and the major money offers these future politicians an 8 figure salary after they leave office. You think they are going to be any less bought? Or perhaps that million dollar donation to the bother or sister of a politician will have nothing to do with corrupting the politicians interests at all.

The point is that blocking the money is LITERALLY impossible. Period.

Okay then. Let's just all roll over now and die.

Go ahead. I, on the other hand, am going to continue to actually fight against the reasons why our government is corrupt rather than trying to engage the symptoms.

In other words, you're going to pursue Utopia where everyone and everything is perfect. That's your plan. Chase the butterflies and roll in the grass in a meadow of daisies.

Never said I want Utopia.

Can you debate points without insults or strawmen? I am begining to doubt that you can.

 

[SwimExpert]

So block the money! What the fuck do you people want? Everyone to sit around the camp fire and sing Kumbaya and just love their little slice of Utopia so much they'll just be nice always from now on? Pull your heads out of the sand, flowery ideals are not going to solve anything. Sitting there and saying "Well, people should just be nice and do good things" is not going to fix the problem.

No, I want to address the source because blocking the money accomplishes nothing at all. What are you going to do when elections are completely funded by public coffers and absolutely zero dollars are able to enter the system at all and the major money offers these future politicians an 8 figure salary after they leave office. You think they are going to be any less bought? Or perhaps that million dollar donation to the bother or sister of a politician will have nothing to do with corrupting the politicians interests at all.

The point is that blocking the money is LITERALLY impossible. Period.

Okay then. Let's just all roll over now and die.

Go ahead. I, on the other hand, am going to continue to actually fight against the reasons why our government is corrupt rather than trying to engage the symptoms.

In other words, you're going to pursue Utopia where everyone and everything is perfect. That's your plan. Chase the butterflies and roll in the grass in a meadow of daisies.

Never said I want Utopia.

Can you debate points without insults or strawmen? I am begining to doubt that you can.

Not in so many words, but that it what it boils down to. The reason why our government is corrupt is because our laws allow the free flow of money in exchange for favors. But you don't actually want to go after that. You claim that's just a symptom, and claim that the root cause is that the government possesses power by which favors can be granted, and that the the individuals in government are willing to use such power accordingly. Well gee wiz! Of course the government has power. That's kinda the definition of government. And of course there are people who are willing to be behave corruptly. It's allow, and hell it's even rewarded.

A government without power is nothingness. Humans who are not corruptible are not humans. Except in a Utopian world. What you are advocating for is absolutely absurd and entirely stupid. That's not an insult, that's a fact.

 

[FA_Q2]

No, I want to address the source because blocking the money accomplishes nothing at all. What are you going to do when elections are completely funded by public coffers and absolutely zero dollars are able to enter the system at all and the major money offers these future politicians an 8 figure salary after they leave office. You think they are going to be any less bought? Or perhaps that million dollar donation to the bother or sister of a politician will have nothing to do with corrupting the politicians interests at all.

The point is that blocking the money is LITERALLY impossible. Period.

Okay then. Let's just all roll over now and die.

Go ahead. I, on the other hand, am going to continue to actually fight against the reasons why our government is corrupt rather than trying to engage the symptoms.

In other words, you're going to pursue Utopia where everyone and everything is perfect. That's your plan. Chase the butterflies and roll in the grass in a meadow of daisies.

Never said I want Utopia.

Can you debate points without insults or strawmen? I am begining to doubt that you can.

Not in so many words, but that it what it boils down to. The reason why our government is corrupt is because our laws allow the free flow of money in exchange for favors. But you don't actually want to go after that. You claim that's just a symptom, and claim that the root cause is that the government possesses power by which favors can be granted, and that the the individuals in government are willing to use such power accordingly. Well gee wiz! Of course the government has power. That's kinda the definition of government. And of course there are people who are willing to be behave corruptly. It's allow, and hell it's even rewarded.

A government without power is nothingness. Humans who are not corruptible are not humans. Except in a Utopian world. What you are advocating for is absolutely absurd and entirely stupid. That's not an insult, that's a fact.

No, just because you are to dim to see that there are more solutions to this problem does not make my attacking the problem rather than the symptoms stupid - that is your problem.

You still seem to think that governmental power = power to grant special favors. It does not and as long as you are convinced that is cold hard fact you will forever be one of those that promotes a corrupt government rather than fights it. I already pointed out the MASSIVE holes in your idea of limiting money in politics. Doing so is like trying to bail a sinking boat with a pail that is full of holes.

 

[SwimExpert]

Okay then. Let's just all roll over now and die.

Go ahead. I, on the other hand, am going to continue to actually fight against the reasons why our government is corrupt rather than trying to engage the symptoms.

In other words, you're going to pursue Utopia where everyone and everything is perfect. That's your plan. Chase the butterflies and roll in the grass in a meadow of daisies.

Never said I want Utopia.

Can you debate points without insults or strawmen? I am begining to doubt that you can.

Not in so many words, but that it what it boils down to. The reason why our government is corrupt is because our laws allow the free flow of money in exchange for favors. But you don't actually want to go after that. You claim that's just a symptom, and claim that the root cause is that the government possesses power by which favors can be granted, and that the the individuals in government are willing to use such power accordingly. Well gee wiz! Of course the government has power. That's kinda the definition of government. And of course there are people who are willing to be behave corruptly. It's allow, and hell it's even rewarded.

A government without power is nothingness. Humans who are not corruptible are not humans. Except in a Utopian world. What you are advocating for is absolutely absurd and entirely stupid. That's not an insult, that's a fact.

No, just because you are to dim to see that there are more solutions to this problem does not make my attacking the problem rather than the symptoms stupid - that is your problem.

You still seem to think that governmental power = power to grant special favors. It does not and as long as you are convinced that is cold hard fact you will forever be one of those that promotes a corrupt government rather than fights it. I already pointed out the MASSIVE holes in your idea of limiting money in politics. Doing so is like trying to bail a sinking boat with a pail that is full of holes.

You sound like a three year old running to mommy because Suzy Q is doing something you don't like.

Yes, government power = power to grant special favors. That doesn't mean it's right. But the ability exists. That is an inescapable reality. Where there is a government, there is government power. Where there is power, there is the capacity to misuse it. You cannot eliminate the capacity to misuse power without eliminating that power altogether.

What you can do is throttle the avenues of incentives and rewards.

 

[FA_Q2]

I sound like the child yet it is that are unable to avoid name calling and cannot address a single point. All you are able to do is stamp your feet and demand that you are right because.



Whatever - it is clear that you are looking for validation and not actual debate. Go find someone else if you can’t behave like an adult.

 

[SwimExpert]

I sound like the child yet it is that are unable to avoid name calling and cannot address a single point. All you are able to do is stamp your feet and demand that you are right because.



Whatever - it is clear that you are looking for validation and not actual debate. Go find someone else if you can’t behave like an adult.

I've addressed every single "point" you've made. That I also point out your flagrant stupidity on this issue just goes to show that I'm capable of multiple lines of simultaneous thought. Not my fault that you still haven't figured out how to handle one.

 

[AntiParty]

Has our government ever not been corrupt? If not, and we've never known it to be any other way, it shouldn't bother us too much.

?

Every government gets corrupt and the corruption is always $. The quote "$ is the root of all evil" is one everyone on the planet knows. So why would we allow massive Corporations to donate to politicians knowing the people won't have a word to say anymore? We all know everyone working for that Corporation isn't the same party as the leader.

 

[HUGGY]

"I'm demanding reform and declaring a voter's rebellion in a manner consistent with Jefferson's description of rights in the Declaration of Independence," he wrote in his letters. "As a member of Congress, you have three options. 1. You may pretend corruption does not exist. 2. You may pretend to oppose corruption while you sabotage reform. 3. You may actively participate in real reform."

FAA investigating Florida mailman s landing of gyrocopter on U.S. Capitol lawn Tampa Bay Times


So, how do you feel about corruption?

.
Name one politician that is not corrupt at the level of Congressman or Senator.

They ALL must make promises to gather the millions in donations they must to conduct election runs.

It is the system we use. It is the cost of media to portray their view to the public among other expenses such as phone banks etc.

It is the height of hypocrisy to single out any one of them such as this red herring against the Clinton's foundation.
What they received before Hillary announced is really nobody's business. What she receives now should be under the usual scrutiny they all must adhere to.

The process is much like the making of sausage. It is easy to blame someone with views you do not agree with because what they must promise you would also disagree with. I find it disgusting that Christians that promise to work against abortion to get elected are actually promising to break the law. THAT law is settled. There is no hope of changing those laws. Promising to do so is fraud at the very least. That is just my gripe but you may have other issues you do not agree with. That does not make this contributor any more reprehensible that another if they live and act within our laws.

 

[AntiParty]

That political ladder (so advanced .) Small town; Buy or become a politician so you have a say in small town taxation. Nationally; Buy or become a politician so you have a say in National taxation.

If you want your Industry to get tax breaks the best way you can do that is to give a Politician Money and/or write a bill for them.

It's well known big banks write laws and politicians later state they "didn't read it".