The rise of fascism, nationalism and populism today

[Coyote]

This is 2016 America. Grow the fuck up

This is Zone 2 Politics - discuss the topic.

What is there to discuss? You are comparing 2016 America to some other country and its leader decades ago. Its completely fallacious.
Maybe you can try expanding on how you think this is in ANY WAY comparable to present situations, I would love to discuss.
If I started an OP that was comparing twinkle twinkle little star to a rap song called "I fucked your mother cause I gave her a crack rock" would you expect me to get any decent arguments?

If it's completely fallacious, then explain how. What comparisons are wrong?

 

[esthermoon]

Fascism is dead forever I guess.
In my opinion Donald Trump and the European right wing movements have nothing to do with Fascism.
People that vote for them are just sick and tired of the social and economic situation in their countries

 

[TheDude]

Projection. If anything the 2016 election is in REACTION to liberal totalitarianism. WE'RE SICK OF YOUR SHIT.

 

[ZZ PUPPS]

What is going on politically that makes one think Fascism is on the rise?

Nothing. This is just leftist caterwauling because they didn't get THEIR way. Socialism got stopped dead in its tracks because the left overreached.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

What is going on politically that makes one think Fascism is on the rise?

Nothing. This is just leftist caterwauling because they didn't get THEIR way. Socialism got stopped dead in its tracks because the left overreached.

Cool, I thought I missed something.

 

[Pete7469]

What is there to discuss? You are comparing 2016 America to some other country and its leader decades ago. Its completely fallacious.
Maybe you can try expanding on how you think this is in ANY WAY comparable to present situations, I would love to discuss. Because what you gave, was ALSO a fallacy.
If I started an OP that was comparing twinkle twinkle little star to a rap song called "I fucked your mother cause I gave her a crack rock" would you expect me to get any decent arguments?

LOL...

She's bitching about being trolled on another one of her troll threads.

 

[2aguy]

And more on fascism.........for those lefties who are still delusional....

Rudy (R.J.) Rummel is a Professor Emeritus of Political Science. He has published twenty-four nonfiction books (one that received an award for being among the most referenced; another was rated the 26th most important of the last century), six novels, and about 100 peer-reviewed professional articles; has received the Susan Strange Award of the International Studies Association in 1999 for having intellectually most challenged the field; and in 2003 was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award from the Conflict Processes Section, American Political Science Association. He has been frequently nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. His website is here.

http://democraticpeace.wordpress.com/2009/05/23/hitler-was-a-socialist/

Mussolini’s fascism was a state socialism that was explicitly anti-Marx and aggressively nationalistic.

Hitler’s National Socialism was state socialism at its worse. It not only shared the socialism of fascism, but was explicitly racist. In this it differs from the state socialism of Burma today, and that of some African and Arab dictatorships.

Two prevailing historical myths that the left has propagated successfully is that Hitler was a far right wing conservative and was democratically elected in 1933 (a blow at bourgeois democracy and conservatives).

Actually, he was defeated twice in the national elections (he became chancellor in a smoke-filled-room appointment by those German politicians who thought they could control him — see “What? Hitler Was Not Elected?”) and as head of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, he considered himself a socialist, and was one by the evidence of his writings and the his economic policies.

To be clear, National Socialism differs from Marxism in its nationalism, emphasis on folk history and culture, idolization of the leader, and its racism.

But the Nazi and Marxist-Leninists shared a faith in government, an absolute ruler, totalitarian control over all significant economic and social matters for the good of the working man, concentration camps, and genocide/democide as an effective government policy (only in his last years did Stalin plan for his own Holocaust of the Jews


His book, "Death by Government" is great. I think I donated my copy to the library so eventually I'll have to reaquire it for my kindle.

 

[peabody]

As a Republican and a Conservative, I am afraid of blacks and muslims. I am afraid of just about everything because I am a pussy conservative. So I voted for Trump because I think he will keep me safe. Because I am a pussy.

I wish I was brave like the liberals are. They are not afraid of terrorists and Mexicans. They do not hide in fear behind guns, or trade their liberty for the promise of safety. Why are us conservatives such pussies. Answer me that?

 

[Coyote]

Fascism is loosely defined as a form of extreme “authoritarian nationalism” identified with Italy’s Mussolini. It’s principle attributes were an aggressive nationalism, a militarized society, a populist charismatic leader and prolific promises to cure every political and economic ill. It was particularly appealing to an economically depressed post-war society that had seen its way of life and culture turned upside down. Fascism promised action, not diplomacy, not nuance, even if it could not in reality deliver on those promises.

Mussolini was the “anti-establishment outsider” who became the voice of all those disillusioned with the government, the democratic process, and the economy. His rhetoric attracted the unemployed, the economically disenfranchised, veterans, and nationalists. In 1922, when Italy’s king called on Mussolini to form a government he had no idea what that entailed other than fulfilling a personal ambition for power.

In 1938, fascism took on distinctly racist/anti-semitic overtones when it began to collaborate with the Nazi’s. Italy passed it’s “Italian Racial Laws”. These laws codified what had previously been a campaign conducted in the media with the publication of the “Manifesto of Race” Manifesto of Race - Wikipedia This manifesto declared Italians to be of a superior race, and targeted other races as “inferior” - notably Jews and immigrants from Italy’s colonies. They were banned from marrying Italians, and from positions in banking, education, government and their property was confiscated.

Fascism, extreme nationalism and ideas of racial, ethnic, cultural or religious superiority are closely entertwined. Almost every country that has seen a rise in populist movements, such as fascism, has also seen a rise in anti-immigrant sentiment, legislation targeting specific racial, ethnic or religious groups and a rise in “justified” violence or special restrictions aimed at those groups.

World War 2 saw increased nationalistic fervor after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. American citizens of Japanese were first required to register. Then, their assets were frozen. Then they were ordered to “assembly points” and interned. Their property was confiscated. American citizens of Italian and German descent joined them. Is it so impossible for people to conceive of the fact that American citizens regardless of their ancestry are Americans first? Apparently it is.

We want to say “that was then, this is now”. That today is somehow different. But is it?

Look at the rise of populist rightwing movements across Europe and with the recent election of Donald Trump.

Geert Wilders, recently in the news again and with a very real chance of winning a government now with a coalition. What is the platform for his Party for Freedom?

They include the predictable anti-immigrant/Islam rhetoric, including completely banning an entire religion, closing all mosques and banning the Koran, the withdrawal of all residence permits granted to asylum seekers, and some rather obscurely defined planks such as:

Ban of overall Muslim expressions that are against the public order (defined how?)
Preventive incarceration of radical Muslims (determined how?).​

They also include populist promisies that likely can't be delivered upon:

The Netherlands will reclaim its independence. Therefore, we leave the EU.
Direct democracy: binding referendums, citizens have the power.
Deductible/excess in healthcare insurance is eliminated
Rents to be lowered
No more money for foreign aid, windmills, art, innovation, public broadcasters, etc.
Plenty extra funds for defense and police
Lower income taxes
50% reduction for vehicle ownership taxes​

Donald Trump campaigned on deporting immigrants and halting immigration, registries for Muslims, border security, tax cuts, bringing jobs back and increased defense. Supporters don’t rule out internment camps and banning entire religions. Mussolini attacked the leftwing media and attempted to close them down, a few managed to continue to operate under difficult conditions. We've heard Trump rail about the media and we've heard him propose legislation against them and creating his own media service.

I think these are truly dangerous times for civil liberties and freedoms throughout the western world.

Wow......you could have simply stated...fascism is socialism...Trump is a capitalist...therefore he is not a fascist, and called it a day...

Communism vs Fascism - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

 

[owebo]

As a Republican and a Conservative, I am afraid of blacks and muslims. I am afraid of just about everything because I am a pussy conservative. So I voted for Trump because I think he will keep me safe. Because I am a pussy.

I wish I was brave like the liberals are. They are not afraid of terrorists and Mexicans. They do not hide in fear behind guns, or trade their liberty for the promise of safety. Why are us conservatives such pussies. Answer me that?

 

[owebo]

Fascism is loosely defined as a form of extreme “authoritarian nationalism” identified with Italy’s Mussolini. It’s principle attributes were an aggressive nationalism, a militarized society, a populist charismatic leader and prolific promises to cure every political and economic ill. It was particularly appealing to an economically depressed post-war society that had seen its way of life and culture turned upside down. Fascism promised action, not diplomacy, not nuance, even if it could not in reality deliver on those promises.

Mussolini was the “anti-establishment outsider” who became the voice of all those disillusioned with the government, the democratic process, and the economy. His rhetoric attracted the unemployed, the economically disenfranchised, veterans, and nationalists. In 1922, when Italy’s king called on Mussolini to form a government he had no idea what that entailed other than fulfilling a personal ambition for power.

In 1938, fascism took on distinctly racist/anti-semitic overtones when it began to collaborate with the Nazi’s. Italy passed it’s “Italian Racial Laws”. These laws codified what had previously been a campaign conducted in the media with the publication of the “Manifesto of Race” Manifesto of Race - Wikipedia This manifesto declared Italians to be of a superior race, and targeted other races as “inferior” - notably Jews and immigrants from Italy’s colonies. They were banned from marrying Italians, and from positions in banking, education, government and their property was confiscated.

Fascism, extreme nationalism and ideas of racial, ethnic, cultural or religious superiority are closely entertwined. Almost every country that has seen a rise in populist movements, such as fascism, has also seen a rise in anti-immigrant sentiment, legislation targeting specific racial, ethnic or religious groups and a rise in “justified” violence or special restrictions aimed at those groups.

World War 2 saw increased nationalistic fervor after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. American citizens of Japanese were first required to register. Then, their assets were frozen. Then they were ordered to “assembly points” and interned. Their property was confiscated. American citizens of Italian and German descent joined them. Is it so impossible for people to conceive of the fact that American citizens regardless of their ancestry are Americans first? Apparently it is.

We want to say “that was then, this is now”. That today is somehow different. But is it?

Look at the rise of populist rightwing movements across Europe and with the recent election of Donald Trump.

Geert Wilders, recently in the news again and with a very real chance of winning a government now with a coalition. What is the platform for his Party for Freedom?

They include the predictable anti-immigrant/Islam rhetoric, including completely banning an entire religion, closing all mosques and banning the Koran, the withdrawal of all residence permits granted to asylum seekers, and some rather obscurely defined planks such as:

Ban of overall Muslim expressions that are against the public order (defined how?)
Preventive incarceration of radical Muslims (determined how?).​

They also include populist promisies that likely can't be delivered upon:

The Netherlands will reclaim its independence. Therefore, we leave the EU.
Direct democracy: binding referendums, citizens have the power.
Deductible/excess in healthcare insurance is eliminated
Rents to be lowered
No more money for foreign aid, windmills, art, innovation, public broadcasters, etc.
Plenty extra funds for defense and police
Lower income taxes
50% reduction for vehicle ownership taxes​

Donald Trump campaigned on deporting immigrants and halting immigration, registries for Muslims, border security, tax cuts, bringing jobs back and increased defense. Supporters don’t rule out internment camps and banning entire religions. Mussolini attacked the leftwing media and attempted to close them down, a few managed to continue to operate under difficult conditions. We've heard Trump rail about the media and we've heard him propose legislation against them and creating his own media service.

I think these are truly dangerous times for civil liberties and freedoms throughout the western world.

Wow......you could have simply stated...fascism is socialism...Trump is a capitalist...therefore he is not a fascist, and called it a day...

Communism vs Fascism - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

Of course they are completely different far left ideologies......

 

[deltex1]

Fascism is loosely defined as a form of extreme “authoritarian nationalism” identified with Italy’s Mussolini. It’s principle attributes were an aggressive nationalism, a militarized society, a populist charismatic leader and prolific promises to cure every political and economic ill. It was particularly appealing to an economically depressed post-war society that had seen its way of life and culture turned upside down. Fascism promised action, not diplomacy, not nuance, even if it could not in reality deliver on those promises.

Mussolini was the “anti-establishment outsider” who became the voice of all those disillusioned with the government, the democratic process, and the economy. His rhetoric attracted the unemployed, the economically disenfranchised, veterans, and nationalists. In 1922, when Italy’s king called on Mussolini to form a government he had no idea what that entailed other than fulfilling a personal ambition for power.

In 1938, fascism took on distinctly racist/anti-semitic overtones when it began to collaborate with the Nazi’s. Italy passed it’s “Italian Racial Laws”. These laws codified what had previously been a campaign conducted in the media with the publication of the “Manifesto of Race” Manifesto of Race - Wikipedia This manifesto declared Italians to be of a superior race, and targeted other races as “inferior” - notably Jews and immigrants from Italy’s colonies. They were banned from marrying Italians, and from positions in banking, education, government and their property was confiscated.

Fascism, extreme nationalism and ideas of racial, ethnic, cultural or religious superiority are closely entertwined. Almost every country that has seen a rise in populist movements, such as fascism, has also seen a rise in anti-immigrant sentiment, legislation targeting specific racial, ethnic or religious groups and a rise in “justified” violence or special restrictions aimed at those groups.

World War 2 saw increased nationalistic fervor after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. American citizens of Japanese were first required to register. Then, their assets were frozen. Then they were ordered to “assembly points” and interned. Their property was confiscated. American citizens of Italian and German descent joined them. Is it so impossible for people to conceive of the fact that American citizens regardless of their ancestry are Americans first? Apparently it is.

We want to say “that was then, this is now”. That today is somehow different. But is it?

Look at the rise of populist rightwing movements across Europe and with the recent election of Donald Trump.

Geert Wilders, recently in the news again and with a very real chance of winning a government now with a coalition. What is the platform for his Party for Freedom?

They include the predictable anti-immigrant/Islam rhetoric, including completely banning an entire religion, closing all mosques and banning the Koran, the withdrawal of all residence permits granted to asylum seekers, and some rather obscurely defined planks such as:

Ban of overall Muslim expressions that are against the public order (defined how?)
Preventive incarceration of radical Muslims (determined how?).​

They also include populist promisies that likely can't be delivered upon:

The Netherlands will reclaim its independence. Therefore, we leave the EU.
Direct democracy: binding referendums, citizens have the power.
Deductible/excess in healthcare insurance is eliminated
Rents to be lowered
No more money for foreign aid, windmills, art, innovation, public broadcasters, etc.
Plenty extra funds for defense and police
Lower income taxes
50% reduction for vehicle ownership taxes​

Donald Trump campaigned on deporting immigrants and halting immigration, registries for Muslims, border security, tax cuts, bringing jobs back and increased defense. Supporters don’t rule out internment camps and banning entire religions. Mussolini attacked the leftwing media and attempted to close them down, a few managed to continue to operate under difficult conditions. We've heard Trump rail about the media and we've heard him propose legislation against them and creating his own media service.

I think these are truly dangerous times for civil liberties and freedoms throughout the western world.

I'm likin fashionism..yo

 

[Iceweasel]

While that will fit on a bumper sticker, and look real pretty, I'm afraid most historians don't agree with your revisionism. Someday, you guys will have to put on your big girl panties and own your extremists. Hell, we got the socialists and commies covered. You've got the fascists and nazi's. And now we are seeing the rise of fascism. Communism is largely a failed ideology.

Maybe it's too complex but an extremist here wants little to no government. That doesn't describe 1940s Italy. Most on the right just doesn't want government standing on our necks. Populism? What is obama? It's OK for the left but not for the right?

To hold your views one must genuflect into a pretzel shape.

 

[Coyote]

Part of the rise in conservative thought in the US is a direct result of government. America has had enough of the leftward tilt. The rats brought this upon themselves. They awoke the sleeping giant of middle America and galvanized it...against them.

I don't think it's the "leftward tilt"...because when you come right down to it, Trump isn't completely rightwing. He's populist. He supports big tax cuts (rightwing) but yet he is interventionist on trade and business' - distinctly not rightwing.

 

[TNHarley]

This is 2016 America. Grow the fuck up

This is Zone 2 Politics - discuss the topic.

What is there to discuss? You are comparing 2016 America to some other country and its leader decades ago. Its completely fallacious.
Maybe you can try expanding on how you think this is in ANY WAY comparable to present situations, I would love to discuss.
If I started an OP that was comparing twinkle twinkle little star to a rap song called "I fucked your mother cause I gave her a crack rock" would you expect me to get any decent arguments?

If it's completely fallacious, then explain how. What comparisons are wrong?

You are comparing 2016-2017 America to 1920s Italy. How is it NOT fallacious?
Ignorant people start screaming a totalitarian name for no reason other than they don't like what people are saying.
Trump cant do the things M did. He just fucking cant. He passed a law that made him head of government. THINK
"that guy is against globalism and wants his fellow countrymen safe. He is a NAZI!!!"
Do you have any idea how that sounds?

 

[Coyote]

This is 2016 America. Grow the fuck up

This is Zone 2 Politics - discuss the topic.

What is there to discuss? You are comparing 2016 America to some other country and its leader decades ago. Its completely fallacious.
Maybe you can try expanding on how you think this is in ANY WAY comparable to present situations, I would love to discuss.
If I started an OP that was comparing twinkle twinkle little star to a rap song called "I fucked your mother cause I gave her a crack rock" would you expect me to get any decent arguments?

If it's completely fallacious, then explain how. What comparisons are wrong?

You are comparing 2016-2017 America to 1920s Italy. How is it NOT fallacious?
Ignorant people start screaming a totalitarian name for no reason other than they don't like what people are saying.
Trump cant do the things M did. He just fucking cant. He passed a law that made him head of government. THINK
"that guy is against globalism and wants his fellow countrymen safe. He is a NAZI!!!"
Do you have any idea how that sounds?

I'm pointing out similarities. I agree - Trump can't do what Mussolini did. Not sure about European far right movements in their respective countries though. There ARE however similarities in rhetoric and platform (the promises he made). We have more protections, but those protections did not stop us from registering, confiscating the property of and interning American citizens of certain ancestry did it? Could it happen again? What do you think?

 

[TNHarley]

This is 2016 America. Grow the fuck up

This is Zone 2 Politics - discuss the topic.

What is there to discuss? You are comparing 2016 America to some other country and its leader decades ago. Its completely fallacious.
Maybe you can try expanding on how you think this is in ANY WAY comparable to present situations, I would love to discuss.
If I started an OP that was comparing twinkle twinkle little star to a rap song called "I fucked your mother cause I gave her a crack rock" would you expect me to get any decent arguments?

If it's completely fallacious, then explain how. What comparisons are wrong?

You are comparing 2016-2017 America to 1920s Italy. How is it NOT fallacious?
Ignorant people start screaming a totalitarian name for no reason other than they don't like what people are saying.
Trump cant do the things M did. He just fucking cant. He passed a law that made him head of government. THINK
"that guy is against globalism and wants his fellow countrymen safe. He is a NAZI!!!"
Do you have any idea how that sounds?

I'm pointing out similarities. I agree - Trump can't do what Mussolini did. Not sure about European far right movements in their respective countries though. There ARE however similarities in rhetoric and platform (the promises he made). We have more protections, but those protections did not stop us from registering, confiscating the property of and interning American citizens of certain ancestry did it? Could it happen again? What do you think?

Of course there are similarities. Because ignorant hacks LOOK for them. You can find things that make Hitler look like a commie if you really wanted. OR stalin look like a fascist. But none of that REALLY matters except to the hacks.

 

[2aguy]

This is 2016 America. Grow the fuck up

This is Zone 2 Politics - discuss the topic.

What is there to discuss? You are comparing 2016 America to some other country and its leader decades ago. Its completely fallacious.
Maybe you can try expanding on how you think this is in ANY WAY comparable to present situations, I would love to discuss.
If I started an OP that was comparing twinkle twinkle little star to a rap song called "I fucked your mother cause I gave her a crack rock" would you expect me to get any decent arguments?

If it's completely fallacious, then explain how. What comparisons are wrong?

You are comparing 2016-2017 America to 1920s Italy. How is it NOT fallacious?
Ignorant people start screaming a totalitarian name for no reason other than they don't like what people are saying.
Trump cant do the things M did. He just fucking cant. He passed a law that made him head of government. THINK
"that guy is against globalism and wants his fellow countrymen safe. He is a NAZI!!!"
Do you have any idea how that sounds?

I'm pointing out similarities. I agree - Trump can't do what Mussolini did. Not sure about European far right movements in their respective countries though. There ARE however similarities in rhetoric and platform (the promises he made). We have more protections, but those protections did not stop us from registering, confiscating the property of and interning American citizens of certain ancestry did it? Could it happen again? What do you think?

Yes.....democrats interned Japanese, German and Italian Americans.......keeping democrats out of power will keep that from happening again...

 

[Rustic]

Fascism is loosely defined as a form of extreme “authoritarian nationalism” identified with Italy’s Mussolini. It’s principle attributes were an aggressive nationalism, a militarized society, a populist charismatic leader and prolific promises to cure every political and economic ill. It was particularly appealing to an economically depressed post-war society that had seen its way of life and culture turned upside down. Fascism promised action, not diplomacy, not nuance, even if it could not in reality deliver on those promises.

Mussolini was the “anti-establishment outsider” who became the voice of all those disillusioned with the government, the democratic process, and the economy. His rhetoric attracted the unemployed, the economically disenfranchised, veterans, and nationalists. In 1922, when Italy’s king called on Mussolini to form a government he had no idea what that entailed other than fulfilling a personal ambition for power.

In 1938, fascism took on distinctly racist/anti-semitic overtones when it began to collaborate with the Nazi’s. Italy passed it’s “Italian Racial Laws”. These laws codified what had previously been a campaign conducted in the media with the publication of the “Manifesto of Race” Manifesto of Race - Wikipedia This manifesto declared Italians to be of a superior race, and targeted other races as “inferior” - notably Jews and immigrants from Italy’s colonies. They were banned from marrying Italians, and from positions in banking, education, government and their property was confiscated.

Fascism, extreme nationalism and ideas of racial, ethnic, cultural or religious superiority are closely entertwined. Almost every country that has seen a rise in populist movements, such as fascism, has also seen a rise in anti-immigrant sentiment, legislation targeting specific racial, ethnic or religious groups and a rise in “justified” violence or special restrictions aimed at those groups.

World War 2 saw increased nationalistic fervor after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. American citizens of Japanese were first required to register. Then, their assets were frozen. Then they were ordered to “assembly points” and interned. Their property was confiscated. American citizens of Italian and German descent joined them. Is it so impossible for people to conceive of the fact that American citizens regardless of their ancestry are Americans first? Apparently it is.

We want to say “that was then, this is now”. That today is somehow different. But is it?

Look at the rise of populist rightwing movements across Europe and with the recent election of Donald Trump.

Geert Wilders, recently in the news again and with a very real chance of winning a government now with a coalition. What is the platform for his Party for Freedom?

They include the predictable anti-immigrant/Islam rhetoric, including completely banning an entire religion, closing all mosques and banning the Koran, the withdrawal of all residence permits granted to asylum seekers, and some rather obscurely defined planks such as:

Ban of overall Muslim expressions that are against the public order (defined how?)
Preventive incarceration of radical Muslims (determined how?).​

They also include populist promisies that likely can't be delivered upon:

The Netherlands will reclaim its independence. Therefore, we leave the EU.
Direct democracy: binding referendums, citizens have the power.
Deductible/excess in healthcare insurance is eliminated
Rents to be lowered
No more money for foreign aid, windmills, art, innovation, public broadcasters, etc.
Plenty extra funds for defense and police
Lower income taxes
50% reduction for vehicle ownership taxes​

Donald Trump campaigned on deporting immigrants and halting immigration, registries for Muslims, border security, tax cuts, bringing jobs back and increased defense. Supporters don’t rule out internment camps and banning entire religions. Mussolini attacked the leftwing media and attempted to close them down, a few managed to continue to operate under difficult conditions. We've heard Trump rail about the media and we've heard him propose legislation against them and creating his own media service.

I think these are truly dangerous times for civil liberties and freedoms throughout the western world.

Only thing worse than nationalism is globalism… Fact

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

As a Republican and a Conservative, I am afraid of blacks and muslims. I am afraid of just about everything because I am a pussy conservative. So I voted for Trump because I think he will keep me safe. Because I am a pussy.

I wish I was brave like the liberals are. They are not afraid of terrorists and Mexicans. They do not hide in fear behind guns, or trade their liberty for the promise of safety. Why are us conservatives such pussies. Answer me that?

I'm not sure where to go with this....