The rise of fascism, nationalism and populism today

[WaitingFor2020]

Fascism is loosely defined as a form of extreme “authoritarian nationalism” identified with Italy’s Mussolini. It’s principle attributes were an aggressive nationalism, a militarized society, a populist charismatic leader and prolific promises to cure every political and economic ill. It was particularly appealing to an economically depressed post-war society that had seen its way of life and culture turned upside down. Fascism promised action, not diplomacy, not nuance, even if it could not in reality deliver on those promises.

Mussolini was the “anti-establishment outsider” who became the voice of all those disillusioned with the government, the democratic process, and the economy. His rhetoric attracted the unemployed, the economically disenfranchised, veterans, and nationalists. In 1922, when Italy’s king called on Mussolini to form a government he had no idea what that entailed other than fulfilling a personal ambition for power.

In 1938, fascism took on distinctly racist/anti-semitic overtones when it began to collaborate with the Nazi’s. Italy passed it’s “Italian Racial Laws”. These laws codified what had previously been a campaign conducted in the media with the publication of the “Manifesto of Race” Manifesto of Race - Wikipedia This manifesto declared Italians to be of a superior race, and targeted other races as “inferior” - notably Jews and immigrants from Italy’s colonies. They were banned from marrying Italians, and from positions in banking, education, government and their property was confiscated.

Fascism, extreme nationalism and ideas of racial, ethnic, cultural or religious superiority are closely entertwined. Almost every country that has seen a rise in populist movements, such as fascism, has also seen a rise in anti-immigrant sentiment, legislation targeting specific racial, ethnic or religious groups and a rise in “justified” violence or special restrictions aimed at those groups.

World War 2 saw increased nationalistic fervor after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. American citizens of Japanese were first required to register. Then, their assets were frozen. Then they were ordered to “assembly points” and interned. Their property was confiscated. American citizens of Italian and German descent joined them. Is it so impossible for people to conceive of the fact that American citizens regardless of their ancestry are Americans first? Apparently it is.

We want to say “that was then, this is now”. That today is somehow different. But is it?

Look at the rise of populist rightwing movements across Europe and with the recent election of Donald Trump.

Geert Wilders, recently in the news again and with a very real chance of winning a government now with a coalition. What is the platform for his Party for Freedom?

They include the predictable anti-immigrant/Islam rhetoric, including completely banning an entire religion, closing all mosques and banning the Koran, the withdrawal of all residence permits granted to asylum seekers, and some rather obscurely defined planks such as:

Ban of overall Muslim expressions that are against the public order (defined how?)
Preventive incarceration of radical Muslims (determined how?).​

They also include populist promisies that likely can't be delivered upon:

The Netherlands will reclaim its independence. Therefore, we leave the EU.
Direct democracy: binding referendums, citizens have the power.
Deductible/excess in healthcare insurance is eliminated
Rents to be lowered
No more money for foreign aid, windmills, art, innovation, public broadcasters, etc.
Plenty extra funds for defense and police
Lower income taxes
50% reduction for vehicle ownership taxes​

Donald Trump campaigned on deporting immigrants and halting immigration, registries for Muslims, border security, tax cuts, bringing jobs back and increased defense. Supporters don’t rule out internment camps and banning entire religions. Mussolini attacked the leftwing media and attempted to close them down, a few managed to continue to operate under difficult conditions. We've heard Trump rail about the media and we've heard him propose legislation against them and creating his own media service.

I think these are truly dangerous times for civil liberties and freedoms throughout the western world.

I think you are correct.

But it is too early to see if Trump will continue to emulate Benito or Adolf.

So far he has.

Whether he will now wise up or not has yet to be seen.

Hopefully you are wrong.

But it is too early to tell if you are right.

Ross Perot and Steve Forbes both wanted to introduce business management principles to government.

They did not get a chance.

Trump is getting a chance.

We shall see if this works or not.

The worst he can do is to end up like Carter or "W".

The best he can do is like Reagan.

Jimmy Carter and Geo W. Bush are not sociopaths. Bush is a narcissist, but most politicians are. Carter won the election in a backlash vote against the Republicans after Nixon was impeached and resigned.

 

[TNHarley]

Rolling Stone says what they want. Hell, I read an article some time ago that said most mass murders were done with ar-15s

Thanks for the link, lazy ass.

Hell, I thought it was some time back.
All-American Killer: How the AR-15 Became Mass Shooters' Weapon of Choice

 

[ptbw forever]

Fascism is loosely defined as a form of extreme “authoritarian nationalism” identified with Italy’s Mussolini. It’s principle attributes were an aggressive nationalism, a militarized society, a populist charismatic leader and prolific promises to cure every political and economic ill. It was particularly appealing to an economically depressed post-war society that had seen its way of life and culture turned upside down. Fascism promised action, not diplomacy, not nuance, even if it could not in reality deliver on those promises.

Mussolini was the “anti-establishment outsider” who became the voice of all those disillusioned with the government, the democratic process, and the economy. His rhetoric attracted the unemployed, the economically disenfranchised, veterans, and nationalists. In 1922, when Italy’s king called on Mussolini to form a government he had no idea what that entailed other than fulfilling a personal ambition for power.

In 1938, fascism took on distinctly racist/anti-semitic overtones when it began to collaborate with the Nazi’s. Italy passed it’s “Italian Racial Laws”. These laws codified what had previously been a campaign conducted in the media with the publication of the “Manifesto of Race” Manifesto of Race - Wikipedia This manifesto declared Italians to be of a superior race, and targeted other races as “inferior” - notably Jews and immigrants from Italy’s colonies. They were banned from marrying Italians, and from positions in banking, education, government and their property was confiscated.

Fascism, extreme nationalism and ideas of racial, ethnic, cultural or religious superiority are closely entertwined. Almost every country that has seen a rise in populist movements, such as fascism, has also seen a rise in anti-immigrant sentiment, legislation targeting specific racial, ethnic or religious groups and a rise in “justified” violence or special restrictions aimed at those groups.

World War 2 saw increased nationalistic fervor after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. American citizens of Japanese were first required to register. Then, their assets were frozen. Then they were ordered to “assembly points” and interned. Their property was confiscated. American citizens of Italian and German descent joined them. Is it so impossible for people to conceive of the fact that American citizens regardless of their ancestry are Americans first? Apparently it is.

We want to say “that was then, this is now”. That today is somehow different. But is it?

Look at the rise of populist rightwing movements across Europe and with the recent election of Donald Trump.

Geert Wilders, recently in the news again and with a very real chance of winning a government now with a coalition. What is the platform for his Party for Freedom?

They include the predictable anti-immigrant/Islam rhetoric, including completely banning an entire religion, closing all mosques and banning the Koran, the withdrawal of all residence permits granted to asylum seekers, and some rather obscurely defined planks such as:

Ban of overall Muslim expressions that are against the public order (defined how?)
Preventive incarceration of radical Muslims (determined how?).​

They also include populist promisies that likely can't be delivered upon:

The Netherlands will reclaim its independence. Therefore, we leave the EU.
Direct democracy: binding referendums, citizens have the power.
Deductible/excess in healthcare insurance is eliminated
Rents to be lowered
No more money for foreign aid, windmills, art, innovation, public broadcasters, etc.
Plenty extra funds for defense and police
Lower income taxes
50% reduction for vehicle ownership taxes​

Donald Trump campaigned on deporting immigrants and halting immigration, registries for Muslims, border security, tax cuts, bringing jobs back and increased defense. Supporters don’t rule out internment camps and banning entire religions. Mussolini attacked the leftwing media and attempted to close them down, a few managed to continue to operate under difficult conditions. We've heard Trump rail about the media and we've heard him propose legislation against them and creating his own media service.

I think these are truly dangerous times for civil liberties and freedoms throughout the western world.

I think you are correct.

But it is too early to see if Trump will continue to emulate Benito or Adolf.

So far he has.

Whether he will now wise up or not has yet to be seen.

Hopefully you are wrong.

But it is too early to tell if you are right.

Ross Perot and Steve Forbes both wanted to introduce business management principles to government.

They did not get a chance.

Trump is getting a chance.

We shall see if this works or not.

The worst he can do is to end up like Carter or "W".

The best he can do is like Reagan.

You are a moron.

 

[ZZ PUPPS]

Fascism is loosely defined as a form of extreme “authoritarian nationalism” identified with Italy’s Mussolini. It’s principle attributes were an aggressive nationalism, a militarized society, a populist charismatic leader and prolific promises to cure every political and economic ill. It was particularly appealing to an economically depressed post-war society that had seen its way of life and culture turned upside down. Fascism promised action, not diplomacy, not nuance, even if it could not in reality deliver on those promises.

Mussolini was the “anti-establishment outsider” who became the voice of all those disillusioned with the government, the democratic process, and the economy. His rhetoric attracted the unemployed, the economically disenfranchised, veterans, and nationalists. In 1922, when Italy’s king called on Mussolini to form a government he had no idea what that entailed other than fulfilling a personal ambition for power.

In 1938, fascism took on distinctly racist/anti-semitic overtones when it began to collaborate with the Nazi’s. Italy passed it’s “Italian Racial Laws”. These laws codified what had previously been a campaign conducted in the media with the publication of the “Manifesto of Race” Manifesto of Race - Wikipedia This manifesto declared Italians to be of a superior race, and targeted other races as “inferior” - notably Jews and immigrants from Italy’s colonies. They were banned from marrying Italians, and from positions in banking, education, government and their property was confiscated.

Fascism, extreme nationalism and ideas of racial, ethnic, cultural or religious superiority are closely entertwined. Almost every country that has seen a rise in populist movements, such as fascism, has also seen a rise in anti-immigrant sentiment, legislation targeting specific racial, ethnic or religious groups and a rise in “justified” violence or special restrictions aimed at those groups.

World War 2 saw increased nationalistic fervor after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. American citizens of Japanese were first required to register. Then, their assets were frozen. Then they were ordered to “assembly points” and interned. Their property was confiscated. American citizens of Italian and German descent joined them. Is it so impossible for people to conceive of the fact that American citizens regardless of their ancestry are Americans first? Apparently it is.

We want to say “that was then, this is now”. That today is somehow different. But is it?

Look at the rise of populist rightwing movements across Europe and with the recent election of Donald Trump.

Geert Wilders, recently in the news again and with a very real chance of winning a government now with a coalition. What is the platform for his Party for Freedom?

They include the predictable anti-immigrant/Islam rhetoric, including completely banning an entire religion, closing all mosques and banning the Koran, the withdrawal of all residence permits granted to asylum seekers, and some rather obscurely defined planks such as:

Ban of overall Muslim expressions that are against the public order (defined how?)
Preventive incarceration of radical Muslims (determined how?).​

They also include populist promisies that likely can't be delivered upon:

The Netherlands will reclaim its independence. Therefore, we leave the EU.
Direct democracy: binding referendums, citizens have the power.
Deductible/excess in healthcare insurance is eliminated
Rents to be lowered
No more money for foreign aid, windmills, art, innovation, public broadcasters, etc.
Plenty extra funds for defense and police
Lower income taxes
50% reduction for vehicle ownership taxes​

Donald Trump campaigned on deporting immigrants and halting immigration, registries for Muslims, border security, tax cuts, bringing jobs back and increased defense. Supporters don’t rule out internment camps and banning entire religions. Mussolini attacked the leftwing media and attempted to close them down, a few managed to continue to operate under difficult conditions. We've heard Trump rail about the media and we've heard him propose legislation against them and creating his own media service.

I think these are truly dangerous times for civil liberties and freedoms throughout the western world.

I think you are correct.

But it is too early to see if Trump will continue to emulate Benito or Adolf.

So far he has.

Whether he will now wise up or not has yet to be seen.

Hopefully you are wrong.

But it is too early to tell if you are right.

Ross Perot and Steve Forbes both wanted to introduce business management principles to government.

They did not get a chance.

Trump is getting a chance.

We shall see if this works or not.

The worst he can do is to end up like Carter or "W".

The best he can do is like Reagan.

Jimmy Carter and Geo W. Bush are not sociopaths. Bush is a narcissist, but most politicians are. Carter won the election in a backlash vote against the Republicans after Nixon was impeached and resigned.

You, who rattles like a serpents tail, know nothing. There have only been 2 impeached presidents...both ratz. Can you name them?

Be it ignorance or deceit, you have shown your worth to this discussion...and it is quite lacking...such is the sputum of a political harlot.

Rant, rave, protest or throw yourself prostrate upon the ground...for you now have political pennies on your eyes.

 

[hunarcy]

Fascism is dead forever I guess.
In my opinion Donald Trump and the European right wing movements have nothing to do with Fascism.
People that vote for them are just sick and tired of the social and economic situation in their countries

People that vote for them are the same people that call for banning an entire religion, stripping civil rights and freedoms from citizens and creating registries and interning citizens. They're the people that want to deport illegal immigrants who were brought here as children, grew up here, and have done nothing wrong.

If there's nothing wrong with their being in the United States, why do you call them illegal? It's because they are not here legally and that's wrong.

Yes, they're here illegally through no fault of their own.

And while that is not their fault, they STILL need to take action to become citizens when they become aware of their status.

 

[Preacher]

Fascism is loosely defined as a form of extreme “authoritarian nationalism” identified with Italy’s Mussolini. It’s principle attributes were an aggressive nationalism, a militarized society, a populist charismatic leader and prolific promises to cure every political and economic ill. It was particularly appealing to an economically depressed post-war society that had seen its way of life and culture turned upside down. Fascism promised action, not diplomacy, not nuance, even if it could not in reality deliver on those promises.

Mussolini was the “anti-establishment outsider” who became the voice of all those disillusioned with the government, the democratic process, and the economy. His rhetoric attracted the unemployed, the economically disenfranchised, veterans, and nationalists. In 1922, when Italy’s king called on Mussolini to form a government he had no idea what that entailed other than fulfilling a personal ambition for power.

In 1938, fascism took on distinctly racist/anti-semitic overtones when it began to collaborate with the Nazi’s. Italy passed it’s “Italian Racial Laws”. These laws codified what had previously been a campaign conducted in the media with the publication of the “Manifesto of Race” Manifesto of Race - Wikipedia This manifesto declared Italians to be of a superior race, and targeted other races as “inferior” - notably Jews and immigrants from Italy’s colonies. They were banned from marrying Italians, and from positions in banking, education, government and their property was confiscated.

Fascism, extreme nationalism and ideas of racial, ethnic, cultural or religious superiority are closely entertwined. Almost every country that has seen a rise in populist movements, such as fascism, has also seen a rise in anti-immigrant sentiment, legislation targeting specific racial, ethnic or religious groups and a rise in “justified” violence or special restrictions aimed at those groups.

World War 2 saw increased nationalistic fervor after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. American citizens of Japanese were first required to register. Then, their assets were frozen. Then they were ordered to “assembly points” and interned. Their property was confiscated. American citizens of Italian and German descent joined them. Is it so impossible for people to conceive of the fact that American citizens regardless of their ancestry are Americans first? Apparently it is.

We want to say “that was then, this is now”. That today is somehow different. But is it?

Look at the rise of populist rightwing movements across Europe and with the recent election of Donald Trump.

Geert Wilders, recently in the news again and with a very real chance of winning a government now with a coalition. What is the platform for his Party for Freedom?

They include the predictable anti-immigrant/Islam rhetoric, including completely banning an entire religion, closing all mosques and banning the Koran, the withdrawal of all residence permits granted to asylum seekers, and some rather obscurely defined planks such as:

Ban of overall Muslim expressions that are against the public order (defined how?)
Preventive incarceration of radical Muslims (determined how?).​

They also include populist promisies that likely can't be delivered upon:

The Netherlands will reclaim its independence. Therefore, we leave the EU.
Direct democracy: binding referendums, citizens have the power.
Deductible/excess in healthcare insurance is eliminated
Rents to be lowered
No more money for foreign aid, windmills, art, innovation, public broadcasters, etc.
Plenty extra funds for defense and police
Lower income taxes
50% reduction for vehicle ownership taxes​

Donald Trump campaigned on deporting immigrants and halting immigration, registries for Muslims, border security, tax cuts, bringing jobs back and increased defense. Supporters don’t rule out internment camps and banning entire religions. Mussolini attacked the leftwing media and attempted to close them down, a few managed to continue to operate under difficult conditions. We've heard Trump rail about the media and we've heard him propose legislation against them and creating his own media service.

I think these are truly dangerous times for civil liberties and freedoms throughout the western world.

People realize dumbocracy has failed and its time to go back to ideologies that WORKED for the people and not for the few (((elites))) Enjoy it! I sure will.

 

[Tom Horn]

The OP is confused about the difference between regaining our national sovereignty and some fairytale fascism. Eight years of Barry Soetoro so distorted reality with his mumbo jumbo and okeydoking the dumbasses, that half of America now hates America. Lost souls lose elections....learn from it and stop believing the hysterics from the Clinturd camp.

 

[TNHarley]

Coyote makes threads so easy

 

[Tom Horn]

Coyote makes threads so easy

If this was my thread it'd be in Badlands by now.

 

[Coyote]

Fascism is dead forever I guess.
In my opinion Donald Trump and the European right wing movements have nothing to do with Fascism.
People that vote for them are just sick and tired of the social and economic situation in their countries

People that vote for them are the same people that call for banning an entire religion, stripping civil rights and freedoms from citizens and creating registries and interning citizens. They're the people that want to deport illegal immigrants who were brought here as children, grew up here, and have done nothing wrong.

If there's nothing wrong with their being in the United States, why do you call them illegal? It's because they are not here legally and that's wrong.

Yes, they're here illegally through no fault of their own.

And while that is not their fault, they STILL need to take action to become citizens when they become aware of their status.

You are 17, applying for college, and loans. What action does a young person, who has only known America take?

 

[Kosh]

Fascism is loosely defined as a form of extreme “authoritarian nationalism” identified with Italy’s Mussolini. It’s principle attributes were an aggressive nationalism, a militarized society, a populist charismatic leader and prolific promises to cure every political and economic ill. It was particularly appealing to an economically depressed post-war society that had seen its way of life and culture turned upside down. Fascism promised action, not diplomacy, not nuance, even if it could not in reality deliver on those promises.

Mussolini was the “anti-establishment outsider” who became the voice of all those disillusioned with the government, the democratic process, and the economy. His rhetoric attracted the unemployed, the economically disenfranchised, veterans, and nationalists. In 1922, when Italy’s king called on Mussolini to form a government he had no idea what that entailed other than fulfilling a personal ambition for power.

In 1938, fascism took on distinctly racist/anti-semitic overtones when it began to collaborate with the Nazi’s. Italy passed it’s “Italian Racial Laws”. These laws codified what had previously been a campaign conducted in the media with the publication of the “Manifesto of Race” Manifesto of Race - Wikipedia This manifesto declared Italians to be of a superior race, and targeted other races as “inferior” - notably Jews and immigrants from Italy’s colonies. They were banned from marrying Italians, and from positions in banking, education, government and their property was confiscated.

Fascism, extreme nationalism and ideas of racial, ethnic, cultural or religious superiority are closely entertwined. Almost every country that has seen a rise in populist movements, such as fascism, has also seen a rise in anti-immigrant sentiment, legislation targeting specific racial, ethnic or religious groups and a rise in “justified” violence or special restrictions aimed at those groups.

World War 2 saw increased nationalistic fervor after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. American citizens of Japanese were first required to register. Then, their assets were frozen. Then they were ordered to “assembly points” and interned. Their property was confiscated. American citizens of Italian and German descent joined them. Is it so impossible for people to conceive of the fact that American citizens regardless of their ancestry are Americans first? Apparently it is.

We want to say “that was then, this is now”. That today is somehow different. But is it?

Look at the rise of populist rightwing movements across Europe and with the recent election of Donald Trump.

Geert Wilders, recently in the news again and with a very real chance of winning a government now with a coalition. What is the platform for his Party for Freedom?

They include the predictable anti-immigrant/Islam rhetoric, including completely banning an entire religion, closing all mosques and banning the Koran, the withdrawal of all residence permits granted to asylum seekers, and some rather obscurely defined planks such as:

Ban of overall Muslim expressions that are against the public order (defined how?)
Preventive incarceration of radical Muslims (determined how?).​

They also include populist promisies that likely can't be delivered upon:

The Netherlands will reclaim its independence. Therefore, we leave the EU.
Direct democracy: binding referendums, citizens have the power.
Deductible/excess in healthcare insurance is eliminated
Rents to be lowered
No more money for foreign aid, windmills, art, innovation, public broadcasters, etc.
Plenty extra funds for defense and police
Lower income taxes
50% reduction for vehicle ownership taxes​

Donald Trump campaigned on deporting immigrants and halting immigration, registries for Muslims, border security, tax cuts, bringing jobs back and increased defense. Supporters don’t rule out internment camps and banning entire religions. Mussolini attacked the leftwing media and attempted to close them down, a few managed to continue to operate under difficult conditions. We've heard Trump rail about the media and we've heard him propose legislation against them and creating his own media service.

I think these are truly dangerous times for civil liberties and freedoms throughout the western world.

Yes fascism is dead as the far left around the world gets tossed out!

Another far left drone failed thread/post!

 

[OldLady]

IMO, one of the atrocities of WWII is that we closed our doors to German Jews begging to flee Hitler. So they were exterminated; we could have helped. It's true they weren't American citizens, so apparently you don't care, but I DO. You see what is happening in Aleppo and Mosul. Picture living in it. You've maybe seen what living conditions are like in the refugee camps for families, sometimes for years. So yes, I am bitching that Trump is in favor of closing our doors because of "national security." It is EXACTLY the same excuse we used to keep out the Jews. Should there be a registry of Muslims "for security reasons?" That is what we did in order to collect the Japanese and send them to prison camps. We confiscated their property, their businesses, everything. AND THEY WERE BORN HERE.
I wish you were right, TN, but I don't know what makes you think "it won't happen here." Listen to the people around you. America's done it's share of shit hole stuff, and we are more than capable of doing it again.

Completely different circumstances. You are assuming a HUGE threat would have to happen for POTUS to get that kind of power. Have you ever heard of separation of powers?
We shouldn't register citizens, of course not.
One could never convince me that emotion is better suited to run a country, ESPECIALLY its safety of 320M people than actual safety and logical thought.

It's not "emotion," TN, it is one of our core values and traditions, to welcome people to our free country from other lands. The circumstances are not different at all. America is threatened, has been at war for fifteen solid years against radical Islam/ISIS. We are doing exactly what we did before. Or we will, if we don't put on the brakes. Do you think Trump's administration and a Republican dominated Congress, Senate and soon to be majority conservative Supreme Court will not have its way in these matters? Really?

We cant declare war on a terror group.
Shit happens during war. It is absolutely emotion. Because ANY logical thought would include them abusing Good.

On September 18, 2001, Congress enacted into law, and President George W. Bush signed, what is arguably the broadest declaration of war in our nation’s history. “Whereas on September 11, 2001, acts of treacherous violence were committed against the United States,” begins the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF),

The President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations, or persons.

Constitutionally, the 9-18-01 Act is a Declaration of War.

Do you approve / support it?

Yes, I believe so. It doesn't seem to have worked very well so far, though, has it? So maybe I am wrong...

 

[OldLady]

Some of you are using an economic model to poo poo the OP's concerns about the growing sentiment among some, including Trump supporters, of taking away SOME PEOPLE'S human rights. Economics -- such as socialism, communism -- has NOTHING to do with the nationalistic, populist movement of fascism. Of course Mussolini and Hitler had to take over their country's economies in order to build the huge war machines necessary to carry out their missions of domination. Saying we aren't heading down that road is silly. We are at least at the head of the path and discussing it. Many are helping in taking control of the media, as well, with their arguments that no media can be trusted.
Muslim Americans being registered? On some days, according to Trump, Muslims from terrorist-compromised countries being SUSPENDED from entering the US? We did put Japanese Americans in fucking prison camps, people--wake up! People who had not done one, single wrong thing. We stopped German Jews from entering this country at the same time, afraid they might be "spies." We know what happened to all of them.
It is those of you who think all the above is fine that worry me. Since you aren't Muslim or a refugee, you could care less. But it COULD be you and when you take the rights of one group of citizens, you open the door to taking the rights of others, including yours. Ask the ghosts of the millions of Germans and Italians killed by their leaders during the fascist years. They said No. They died.
We are flirting with it. Don't spout about communism or that it can't be because Hitler was a socialist. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Focus on the concerns.

According to that logic the Democrats are 100% fascist and have been for decades.

Christians are treated horribly in this country by the popular culture(Democrats) compared to Muslims , and so have white people who have a sense of worth.

Trump could be an openly anti-Arab bigot who advocates for extreme repression of Muslims beyond anything we ever believed was possible and he still wouldn't hold a candle to what has been done by the media and the education system to Christians and traditional white Americans.

That is just too warped to bother with, besides turning the thread.

You are a self-described "old lady", you don't know jack shit about what is going on in today's America.

I am a millennial who has lived in today's America for almost all my life and I know it better than just about anyone.

You're a young cockawhoop who thinks he knows everything.
I'm not going to go down the Christians-as-victims path with you here, maybe in another thread. I surely have heard NOTHING to worry Christians in this country from our upcoming administration. The fascism streak is clearly against "outsiders."

 

[Mac1958]

I think these are truly dangerous times for civil liberties and freedoms throughout the western world.

It's fair to argue that, to some degree, much of this is a reaction to the multiculturalism and globalism that has made many feel that their country is losing its very sovereignty, not to mention their security. Not just in America, but Europe as well.

That doesn't make them bad people, it simply means that they have had enough of seeing the country they love both diluted and divided. They don't want that. It may also mean that people on the other "side" have pushed too hard, too fast.

So this is the reaction.
.

 

[Iceweasel]

Just because most of the people in this country find Trump to be one of the most vile assholes in America

No, just the most hate filled outraged halfwits in the country. You think most people are like you?

LOL

 

[Coyote]

I think these are truly dangerous times for civil liberties and freedoms throughout the western world.

It's fair to argue that, to some degree, much of this is a reaction to the multiculturalism and globalism that has made many feel that their country is losing its very sovereignty, not to mention their security. Not just in America, but Europe as well.

That doesn't make them bad people, it simply means that they have had enough of seeing the country they love both diluted and divided. They don't want that. It may also mean that people on the other "side" have pushed too hard, too fast.

So this is the reaction.
.

I can understand that rationale, but should we accept it as a justification for potentially harmful acts?

Hitler's rise to power, and his populism, was driven in part by Germany's terrible economic situation and the terms of its defeat after ww1. It paved the way for a populist leader who could easily scapegoat vulnerable minorities.

What we are seeing now is a similar rise in far right populist parties. Golden Dawn, Geer Wilders, LaPenn...

I think it bodes badly for those not of the desired majority.

 

[Mac1958]

I think these are truly dangerous times for civil liberties and freedoms throughout the western world.

It's fair to argue that, to some degree, much of this is a reaction to the multiculturalism and globalism that has made many feel that their country is losing its very sovereignty, not to mention their security. Not just in America, but Europe as well.

That doesn't make them bad people, it simply means that they have had enough of seeing the country they love both diluted and divided. They don't want that. It may also mean that people on the other "side" have pushed too hard, too fast.

So this is the reaction.
.

I can understand that rationale, but should we accept it as a justification for potentially harmful acts?

Hitler's rise to power, and his populism, was driven in part by Germany's terrible economic situation and the terms of its defeat after ww1. It paved the way for a populist leader who could easily scapegoat vulnerable minorities.

What we are seeing now is a similar rise in far right populist parties. Golden Dawn, Geer Wilders, LaPenn...

I think it bodes badly for those not of the desired majority.

People kneejerk. We just LOVE doing that. The far right populist parties are doing that right now. But I suspect some of the behavior is fueled by frustration over what they have seen happening to their homes. Might they go too far? Holy shit, yes. I'd be surprised if they DIDN'T.

So, as usual, both ends of the argument need to look in the mirror about their behaviors.
.

 

[OldLady]

I think these are truly dangerous times for civil liberties and freedoms throughout the western world.

It's fair to argue that, to some degree, much of this is a reaction to the multiculturalism and globalism that has made many feel that their country is losing its very sovereignty, not to mention their security. Not just in America, but Europe as well.

That doesn't make them bad people, it simply means that they have had enough of seeing the country they love both diluted and divided. They don't want that. It may also mean that people on the other "side" have pushed too hard, too fast.

So this is the reaction.
.

I can understand that rationale, but should we accept it as a justification for potentially harmful acts?

Hitler's rise to power, and his populism, was driven in part by Germany's terrible economic situation and the terms of its defeat after ww1. It paved the way for a populist leader who could easily scapegoat vulnerable minorities.

What we are seeing now is a similar rise in far right populist parties. Golden Dawn, Geer Wilders, LaPenn...

I think it bodes badly for those not of the desired majority.

People kneejerk. We just LOVE doing that. The far right populist parties are doing that right now. But I suspect some of the behavior is fueled by frustration over what they have seen happening to their homes. Might they go too far? Holy shit, yes. I'd be surprised if they DIDN'T.

So, as usual, both ends of the argument need to look in the mirror about their behaviors.
.

I don't see immigrants as "diluting" our home.
I was interested to learn, while looking at the 1910 census for my grandmother's hometown--a very small coastal town involved almost exclusively in sailing ships and lumbering--that more than half her neighbors were foreign born, from several different countries. Some no doubt spoke foreign languages and had some "funny" customs, but I never heard my grandmother remark in any negative way about 'foreigners,' and later in her life she lived in a very populated area of New York full of folks "from away." The descendants of those foreigners who lived in my grandmother's hometown in 1910 are now full fledged "Mainers" not "diluting" anything. Maybe we should take a page from the old timers' book on this one and just learn to live and let live.

 

[Iceweasel]

Maybe we should take a page from the old timers' book on this one and just learn to live and let live.

The problem with your analysis is you completely overlook the fact that people used to come here to be Americans and assimilate. E Pluribus Unum. The leftists have flipped that around to the point we have ut language.to press a number on the phone for English and offer multiple language choices for government services. You can be on food stamps and assistance without even speaking our language.

 

[hunarcy]

Fascism is dead forever I guess.
In my opinion Donald Trump and the European right wing movements have nothing to do with Fascism.
People that vote for them are just sick and tired of the social and economic situation in their countries

People that vote for them are the same people that call for banning an entire religion, stripping civil rights and freedoms from citizens and creating registries and interning citizens. They're the people that want to deport illegal immigrants who were brought here as children, grew up here, and have done nothing wrong.

If there's nothing wrong with their being in the United States, why do you call them illegal? It's because they are not here legally and that's wrong.

Yes, they're here illegally through no fault of their own.

And while that is not their fault, they STILL need to take action to become citizens when they become aware of their status.

You are 17, applying for college, and loans. What action does a young person, who has only known America take?

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default...rces/A Guide to Naturalization/PDFs/M-480.pdf