The "RINO" Thread

[Gadawg73]

And lose 40%...

This math is not going well.

40% of the party do not mix religious beliefs with politics.
If it is then we should lose as the other 60% will leave anyway.
And for good reason as religion has no place in politics be it Republican or Democrat.
Those 40% need to leave and form their own party if that is the case.
Because with them, and I believe it to be more like 15-20% if that, we lose every time.
Why?
The Founders understood why.

You live in Georgia...how many voters would stay home in Georgia rather than vote for a pro-choice, pro gay marriage, pro-gun control candidate?

Be honest.

Where is the pro gun control candidate in Georgia?
Georgia Republicans would vote for Daffy Duck if he/she had a R beside the name on the ballot.
Georgia went overwhelmingly Romney.
The Georgia Legislature is overwhelmingly Republican and as an owner of 3 corporations here let me show what they have done in the last 10 years:
Doubled my license fees in one of my businesses, they call it a "user fee".
Doubled fishing and hunting licenses here.
Increased perks for elected officials.
Increased their medical benefits paid by the taxpayer for their part time jobs.
Increased their pensions.
Governor Deal places his cronies in public positions at every turn.
Done nothing on taxes here as we have highest income tax here in the south, some states have ZERO.
Have raised sales taxes every chance they can.
Republicans are no friend to small business in Georgia. Not as bad as Democrats but terrible also.
I know of no one that is pro abortion. Abortion laws never work, all they do is go to another state or are forced by government to have their baby they do not want and do not know how to care for. I oppose the power of the state picking and choosing who gets an abortion and who does not. When it was illegal "for the health of the mother" can and will never be challenged by any doctor under any law. Result: wealthy women get abortions at will and those with no $$$ do not.
Gay marriage? Please, what a dumb ass issue to make a stand on. Dick Cheney had it right: "Leave gay folk alone". Gay boogeyman issue is absurd.
Gun control? Do not see any Republican candidates this way for that.
Have many gay and lesbian attorney clients of mine for years that are members of Log Cabin group or something like that and they want to support Republicans and often do.
Time to move away from the moral police and go forward. Granny always said keep your religious to yourself. I do.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The ones that didn't trust him didn't show up to be counted in the exit poll.

Sure they did - a lot of them show up in the Obama column.
A lot of them show up in the Romney column too. Because Romney's campaign was NEVER about how good Romney is ... it was ALWAYS about how bad Obama is.
The far right fanatics showed up in droves to vote against Obama. They would have voted for anyone as long as it wasn't Barack Obama.

October 2012 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 39%, Dem 33%, Ind 27%

October 2004 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 37%, Dem 39%, Ind 24%



2012 - Mitt Romney...exit polling Rep 32%, Dem 38%, Ind. 29%


2004 - George Bush...exit polling Rep 37%, Dem 37%, Ind. 26%


So you tell me...who didn't show up?

You are assuming that there were the same number of people identifying themselves as Democrats and Republicans during both of those periods of time. That's not the case as my previous post illustrates.

Just as many Republicans showed up percentage wise - there just aren't as many of them these days.

 

[Gadawg73]

Romney won the GOP nominee because....

The Newt is a hypocrite and the #1 target of the DNC, so he was doomed from the start
Santorum was too much out front with his religion that scares liberals and independents
Ron Paul is fringe with his anti-military crap, 9-11 crap, etc.
Herman Cain had skeletons and was a snakeoil salesman for amatuer voters

So some idiots that claim to be in the GOP stayed home because they didn't like Romney's political past running LIBERAL MA, his fringe religion or they were Paulbots.

Obamination had a collective front of groupies that want their free healthcare, phones, condoms, money, etc so he didn't lose as many Democrap voters as Romney lost GOP voters.

Herman Cain DID have skeletons but he is a quality man and candidate.
Do not believe with a lot of what he stands for but Herman would have made a fine President.
"snake oil salesman" good point! Please point to the candidate over the last 40 years that is NOT that!
Amateur voters go for many candidates as I call them LIV.

 

[Gadawg73]

Having played many years of ball and sometimes getting my ass kicked I want to find ways now to stop the damage of ALWAYS getting our ass kicked.
And it is not going back towards the right wing "base".
What I find troubling is the lack of mediation and mitigation on BOTH sides. NO one wants to negotiate anymore.
Stand hard on FISCAL CONSERVATISM first and foremost and stay the hell out of other folk's business and we win the mid terms and 2016.
IT IS THE DEFICIT STUPID

 

[nodoginnafight]

what's an "amatuer" voter?

 

[mudwhistle]

I left the party because Republicans focus too much on religion as the prime source for being different than Democrats. Republicans have become too extreme in growing Government. Republicans have in fact shifted greatly to the left in their spending and support of Government programs.

The oddity is debate is separating elected Republicans and the voter base of republicans. My issue is with the elected Republicans, the voter base is in limbo as many keep leaving the party and many still look for a politician they can get behind.

Mitt was a nail in the coffin for the Republican party, not the last nail, but one of only a few left needed to force the party out of existence.

Also, the democrat party is shrinking as fast as the Republican party. This is overlooked for some reason and I’m not sure why. Republicans didn’t lose by 15% this election, they lost by like 5%... About the same amount McCain lost by. Logically if the Republican party is shrinking by the millions and the % they lose by is still the same, that would indicate that Democrats are too shrinking by about the same margin.

Here are the numbers from 2008:

Barrack Obama/Joseph Biden (Democrat) 69,456,897 votes (52.9%)
John McCain/Sarah Palin (Republican) 59,934,814 votes (45.7%)

Now, let’s look at 2012 numbers:

Obama/Biden Popular vote (Democrat) 65,621,369 (51.0%)
Mitt/Ryan Popular vote (Republican) 60,875,399 (47.3%)

Now, Republicans made up around 2% from 2008 in the total vote, meaning they did better in 2012 than 2008. In all about 3-4 million less votes were cast, all were lost by Democrats… Meaning currently Democrats are the fastest shrinking party by votes in America. This is a big deal because with population growth both parties should be growing by million, not stagnating or losing voters by the millions.


For context:

1996 total vote = about 95 million
2000 total vote = about 102 million
2004 total vote = about 121 million
2008 total vote = about 129 million
2012 total vote = about 126 million

Again, 2012 is the first time in this tabel that the vote count shrunk, and it was all Democrats loss, 100%.

To put it in more simpler terms, in order to be a conservative one must have principles and the moment our representatives show they are losing them they are abandoned in opinion but not at the ballot box. Some Democrats are abandoning the Democratic Party as well, but at the ballot box. I don't think it's as simple as that sounds. Nobody knows how many of Obama's votes were real or not the same person voting several times.

 

[Missourian]

Sure they did - a lot of them show up in the Obama column.
A lot of them show up in the Romney column too. Because Romney's campaign was NEVER about how good Romney is ... it was ALWAYS about how bad Obama is.
The far right fanatics showed up in droves to vote against Obama. They would have voted for anyone as long as it wasn't Barack Obama.

October 2012 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 39%, Dem 33%, Ind 27%

October 2004 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 37%, Dem 39%, Ind 24%



2012 - Mitt Romney...exit polling Rep 32%, Dem 38%, Ind. 29%


2004 - George Bush...exit polling Rep 37%, Dem 37%, Ind. 26%


So you tell me...who didn't show up?

You are assuming that there were the same number of people identifying themselves as Democrats and Republicans during both of those periods of time. That's not the case as my previous post illustrates.

Just as many Republicans showed up percentage wise - there just aren't as many of them these days.

I took that into account.

Read it again...the Rasmussen poll IS a poll of what people identified themselves as.


Here it is in a better format.

October 2012 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 39%, Dem 33%, Ind 27%

2012 - Mitt Romney...exit polling Rep 32%, Dem 38%, Ind. 29%



For comparison:

October 2004 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 37%, Dem 39%, Ind 24%

2004 - George Bush...exit polling Rep 37%, Dem 37%, Ind. 26%


October 2008 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 33%, Dem 40%, Ind 26%

2008 - John McCain...exit polling Rep 32%, Dem 39%, Ind 29%



Now tell me...who didn't show up to vote?
​

 

[nodoginnafight]

October 2012 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 39%, Dem 33%, Ind 27%

October 2004 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 37%, Dem 39%, Ind 24%



2012 - Mitt Romney...exit polling Rep 32%, Dem 38%, Ind. 29%


2004 - George Bush...exit polling Rep 37%, Dem 37%, Ind. 26%


So you tell me...who didn't show up?

You are assuming that there were the same number of people identifying themselves as Democrats and Republicans during both of those periods of time. That's not the case as my previous post illustrates.

Just as many Republicans showed up percentage wise - there just aren't as many of them these days.

Read it again...the Rasmussen poll IS a poll of what people identify themselves as.

The rassmussen polls shows what percentage of people who showed up at the polls identified themselves as. It - by definition - doesn't say anything about who stayed home.

Unless you ASSUME that the same number of Americans on the whole are identifying themselves with the same parties. My numbers - which are not exit poll numbers - show that there is a smaller pool of Republicans (percentage wise) today than in 2005. And Rassmussen's polls have been notoriously off since 2008. You'd do better to cite a more reliable poll.

 

[Gadawg73]

You folks miss an important fact:
Bush ran once AS an incumbent and never faced one the first time.
Romney ran against an incumbent with a bag full of free shit.
Do the math.

 

[asterism]

Next, math. According to FoxNews exit polls, moderates were 45% of the electorate in the 2012 Presidential election and voted for Obama over Romney, 56% to 41%. With 130 million Americans voting, that is a deficit of nearly 9 million voters. Obama beat Romney by 5 million votes.

Romney WAS a moderate.

This fact tumbles the RINO house of cards...and should steer the conversation in an entirely different direction.

Romney ran on

- cutting taxes
- cutting spending
- increasing defense spending
- closer ties with Israel and a more hard line on Iran
- repeal Obamacare

He also picked as his running mate the guy whose signature item is a radical restructuring of Medicare designed to limit spending on healthcare.

What was moderate about that? That may look moderate to the far right but it looks conservative to everyone else.

There was no definitive proposal for tax reform (like the FairTax or 9-9-9), just some nebulous concepts. Ryan's ideas didn't go far enough, they didn't actually cut any spending. Also, Ryan is a career politician with no achievement outside of Washington. That's not a solution for any problems.

The GOP has failed us ever since 2005 when Gillespie announced that the Republican Party was no longer the party of small government. Instead of being talked down to by unsuccessful Republican autocrats, I'm going to try and bring our local Libertarian Party into the mainstream.

 

[Gadawg73]

This is what kills me: I believe gay marriage is about as weird as it comes and I oppose abortion.
But I oppose big government power picking and choosing who gets an abortion and who does not which always comes down to allowing wealthy women that have their private doctors and not allowing poor women.
Ditto the gay marriage argument as it affects NO ONE as weird as it is.

 

[Immanuel]

My brother is a "conservative". We have decided to avoid discussing politics at family gatherings in order to keep things pleasant. He struggles with this, however.

Yesterday, my daughter.....who is his favoriite niece, was talking about a freind of hers who recently passed away after a half-year fight with cancer. She told him that she heard that we would probably find a cure for cancer before long.....expressing hope for the future.

Well, he exclaimed, " I hope not".

My daughter was rocked. She asked him why he felt that way. Her voice trembled.

He said that we don't have enough money to support our population as it is and we can't afford to have cancer cured.

Not sure things will ever be the same between them.

Sounds more like you brother is a liberal to me. After all, that is one of the big excuses as to why abortion should continue in this country unhindered.

I do not know your brother and I am guessing he is a pretty decent guy, but that is a screwed up philosophy.

Immie

 

[nodoginnafight]

You folks miss an important fact:
Bush ran once AS an incumbent and never faced one the first time.
Romney ran against an incumbent with a bag full of free shit.
Do the math.

Yeah, yeah, the same old crap.

Romney should have been able to mop the floor with Obama. ANYONE should have been able to win this election.

The GOP pissed it away on rape preganancies, filibustering equal pay for women, self-deport, gay marriage, and basically pissing off everyone they came across.

 

[Gadawg73]

Romney WAS a moderate.

This fact tumbles the RINO house of cards...and should steer the conversation in an entirely different direction.

Romney ran on

- cutting taxes
- cutting spending
- increasing defense spending
- closer ties with Israel and a more hard line on Iran
- repeal Obamacare

He also picked as his running mate the guy whose signature item is a radical restructuring of Medicare designed to limit spending on healthcare.

What was moderate about that? That may look moderate to the far right but it looks conservative to everyone else.

There was no definitive proposal for tax reform (like the FairTax or 9-9-9), just some nebulous concepts. Ryan's ideas didn't go far enough, they didn't actually cut any spending. Also, Ryan is a career politician with no achievement outside of Washington. That's not a solution for any problems.

The GOP has failed us ever since 2005 when Gillespie announced that the Republican Party was no longer the party of small government. Instead of being talked down to by unsuccessful Republican autocrats, I'm going to try and bring our local Libertarian Party into the mainstream.

Good points and where was the right wing's objection to the largest social program in 50 years, Gramps and Grannies all the Dope you can eat Plan?
Most of the so called right wing of the Republican party love that plan where they can eat all the dope they want at the buffet table and every other government program they can get their hands on. Where is their support to close obsolete military bases?
They base their right wing label on welfare spending and moral issues only.
Well said, I am with you.

 

[Gadawg73]

You folks miss an important fact:
Bush ran once AS an incumbent and never faced one the first time.
Romney ran against an incumbent with a bag full of free shit.
Do the math.

Yeah, yeah, the same old crap.

Romney should have been able to mop the floor with Obama. ANYONE should have been able to win this election.

The GOP pissed it away on rape preganancies, filibustering equal pay for women, self-deport, gay marriage, and basically pissing off everyone they came across.

So 100% of over 100 precincts in Philadelphia and 100% of precincts in many other areas nationwide voting 100% Obama in America had everything to do with pregnancies, filibustering, self deport, gay marriage and pissing folks off and nothing to do with moochers getting free shit?
No, think again. Free shit train has to roll and folks are voting themselves a paycheck.

 

[Missourian]

You are assuming that there were the same number of people identifying themselves as Democrats and Republicans during both of those periods of time. That's not the case as my previous post illustrates.

Just as many Republicans showed up percentage wise - there just aren't as many of them these days.

Read it again...the Rasmussen poll IS a poll of what people identify themselves as.

The rassmussen polls shows what percentage of people who showed up at the polls identified themselves as. It - by definition - doesn't say anything about who stayed home.

Unless you ASSUME that the same number of Americans on the whole are identifying themselves with the same parties. My numbers - which are not exit poll numbers - show that there is a smaller pool of Republicans (percentage wise) today than in 2005. And Rassmussen's polls have been notoriously off since 2008. You'd do better to cite a more reliable poll.

Please...click the link.

The Rasmussen poll ISN'T AN EXIT POLL.

It is a monthly poll independent of any election.

If you don't want to admit the obvious...just stop posting.

I'm trying to find a way to say this nicely...

You are blinded by your bias...you are so sure you are correct that you haven't looked at what I posted.

So far you have made two posts about it and both have been absolutely incorrect.

Take a deep breath, read the links and come back and post something supported by facts.

 

[asterism]

Romney ran on

- cutting taxes
- cutting spending
- increasing defense spending
- closer ties with Israel and a more hard line on Iran
- repeal Obamacare

He also picked as his running mate the guy whose signature item is a radical restructuring of Medicare designed to limit spending on healthcare.

What was moderate about that? That may look moderate to the far right but it looks conservative to everyone else.

There was no definitive proposal for tax reform (like the FairTax or 9-9-9), just some nebulous concepts. Ryan's ideas didn't go far enough, they didn't actually cut any spending. Also, Ryan is a career politician with no achievement outside of Washington. That's not a solution for any problems.

The GOP has failed us ever since 2005 when Gillespie announced that the Republican Party was no longer the party of small government. Instead of being talked down to by unsuccessful Republican autocrats, I'm going to try and bring our local Libertarian Party into the mainstream.

Good points and where was the right wing's objection to the largest social program in 50 years, Gramps and Grannies all the Dope you can eat Plan?
Most of the so called right wing of the Republican party love that plan where they can eat all the dope they want at the buffet table and every other government program they can get their hands on. Where is their support to close obsolete military bases?
They base their right wing label on welfare spending and moral issues only.
Well said, I am with you.

No shit.

 

[Toro]

Romney WAS a moderate.

This fact tumbles the RINO house of cards...and should steer the conversation in an entirely different direction.

Romney ran on

- cutting taxes
- cutting spending
- increasing defense spending
- closer ties with Israel and a more hard line on Iran
- repeal Obamacare

He also picked as his running mate the guy whose signature item is a radical restructuring of Medicare designed to limit spending on healthcare.

What was moderate about that? That may look moderate to the far right but it looks conservative to everyone else.

There was no definitive proposal for tax reform (like the FairTax or 9-9-9), just some nebulous concepts. Ryan's ideas didn't go far enough, they didn't actually cut any spending. Also, Ryan is a career politician with no achievement outside of Washington. That's not a solution for any problems.

The GOP has failed us ever since 2005 when Gillespie announced that the Republican Party was no longer the party of small government. Instead of being talked down to by unsuccessful Republican autocrats, I'm going to try and bring our local Libertarian Party into the mainstream.

That all may be true, but this is about how party is alienating moderates both inside and outside the party.

Romney may have governed as a moderate but he did not run as a moderate, at least to those who aren't on the far right of the GOP.

 

[elvis]

Romney ran on

- cutting taxes
- cutting spending
- increasing defense spending
- closer ties with Israel and a more hard line on Iran
- repeal Obamacare

He also picked as his running mate the guy whose signature item is a radical restructuring of Medicare designed to limit spending on healthcare.

What was moderate about that? That may look moderate to the far right but it looks conservative to everyone else.

There was no definitive proposal for tax reform (like the FairTax or 9-9-9), just some nebulous concepts. Ryan's ideas didn't go far enough, they didn't actually cut any spending. Also, Ryan is a career politician with no achievement outside of Washington. That's not a solution for any problems.

The GOP has failed us ever since 2005 when Gillespie announced that the Republican Party was no longer the party of small government. Instead of being talked down to by unsuccessful Republican autocrats, I'm going to try and bring our local Libertarian Party into the mainstream.

That all may be true, but this is about how party is alienating moderates both inside and outside the party.

Romney may have governed as a moderate but he did not run as a moderate, at least to those who aren't on the far right of the GOP.

How could anyone think Obama is more moderate than Romney?

 

[nodoginnafight]

Read it again...the Rasmussen poll IS a poll of what people identify themselves as.

The rassmussen polls shows what percentage of people who showed up at the polls identified themselves as. It - by definition - doesn't say anything about who stayed home.

Unless you ASSUME that the same number of Americans on the whole are identifying themselves with the same parties. My numbers - which are not exit poll numbers - show that there is a smaller pool of Republicans (percentage wise) today than in 2005. And Rassmussen's polls have been notoriously off since 2008. You'd do better to cite a more reliable poll.

Please...click the link.

The Rasmussen poll ISN'T AN EXIT POLL.

It is a monthly poll independent of any election.

If you don't want to admit the obvious...just stop posting.

I'm trying to find a way to say this nicely...

You are blinded by your bias...you are so sure you are correct that you haven't looked at what I posted.

So far you have made two posts about it and both have been absolutely incorrect.

Take a deep breath, read the links and come back and post something supported by facts.

I've posted my facts. Your post was based partially on exit polls which by definition can produce nothing to address who stayed at home.

Your second piece of "verification" were Rassmussen polls which indicate exactly the opposite of what the polls I posted claimed.

Fine, you want to keep sticking to "Rassmussen is right and everyone else is wrong."
That's your right. In American there is no obligation to learn from mistakes.