The real way to really fix Education

[miami_thomas]

The only way to fix education is to get it away from being an entitlement and back to being something that is a privilege to do. The only to do that is to stop it from being free. School should be provided at 100% of cost only from K through the fifth grade. After that a child has to maintain a B average to continue their education for free. If a child’s grades drop below a B average then the child’s education must be paid for until it is above a B average again. Even if the child stays out of school or if the parent can only afford for the child to re-take one course then so be it. This will get the parents back involved in their kid’s education.

A few things need to be done, one, get rid of the department of education. Second, get rid of the teachers unions. Third, make only those who have kids in school pay for the education of their kids. No kids, you don't have to pay. See how fast parents get more involved in how THEIR money is spent.

The poor still won't pay. They will have to have a subsidy.

If they don't want to pay, then the child needs to maintain a B average. If not, then they have to pay. No subsidies for that.

 

[miami_thomas]

The real way to fix education: segregation. Get the Trayvon Martins out of the classroom.

Don’t you love how the racists are always the first to bring race into an argument?

 

[miami_thomas]

It's "free" in Europe too and yet they are highly more intelligent than the idiots we're shipping out of the government schools, so I don't think your solution is exactly the right cure for the disease.

Then what is. I'm offering a solution and you are just saying no. What is your solution. Is your solution to move to Europe?

I think you strengthen the K-12 experience on the front end. More magnet schools. Teach the trades in High School again.

Then you make 60 hours of college credit available to each student at the outset. The 60 hours will be paid for by payroll witholdings through out their lives as employed adults. Once the tax base expands due to more college grads, you expand it to cover all four years. If you want to use the 60 hours to become a pipefitter; great. If you want to study drama, great. If you want to take 60 hours of dodgeball, great. Just know that there will be money taken out of your paychecks to cover your 60 hours of dodgeball.

More free stuff is not going to get improvements.

 

[candycorn]

Then what is. I'm offering a solution and you are just saying no. What is your solution. Is your solution to move to Europe?

I think you strengthen the K-12 experience on the front end. More magnet schools. Teach the trades in High School again.

Then you make 60 hours of college credit available to each student at the outset. The 60 hours will be paid for by payroll witholdings through out their lives as employed adults. Once the tax base expands due to more college grads, you expand it to cover all four years. If you want to use the 60 hours to become a pipefitter; great. If you want to study drama, great. If you want to take 60 hours of dodgeball, great. Just know that there will be money taken out of your paychecks to cover your 60 hours of dodgeball.

More free stuff is not going to get improvements.

Really, you don't think more persons going to college is going to improve things? Wow, that's remarkably dense.

 

[Avatar4321]

Really, you don't think more persons going to college is going to improve things? Wow, that's remarkably dense.

So you think just going to college improves things? What if they are drunk or stoned the entire college time? What if they dont earn a degree? What if they earn a degree but dont learn anything? What if their time in college insulates them from the real world and they have no concept how to function as an adult?

College can improve things. That doesn't necessarily mean it will.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Really, you don't think more persons going to college is going to improve things? Wow, that's remarkably dense.

So you think just going to college improves things? What if they are drunk or stoned the entire college time? What if they dont earn a degree? What if they earn a degree but dont learn anything? What if their time in college insulates them from the real world and they have no concept how to function as an adult?

College can improve things. That doesn't necessarily mean it will.

I teach mechanics at UAA. I will attest to the fact that not every person is attuned to "book learning" and many even do better when given an opportunity to tear into something and see for themselves how things work. It is another liberal lie that there can be no personal improvement without a college education. On one point, I can agree with the liberal viewpoint that the laborers, those who work with their hands, should be paid more than some college-educated hack who would starve if required to actually work for a living.

 

[Avatar4321]

Really, you don't think more persons going to college is going to improve things? Wow, that's remarkably dense.

So you think just going to college improves things? What if they are drunk or stoned the entire college time? What if they dont earn a degree? What if they earn a degree but dont learn anything? What if their time in college insulates them from the real world and they have no concept how to function as an adult?

College can improve things. That doesn't necessarily mean it will.

I teach mechanics at UAA. I will attest to the fact that not every person is attuned to "book learning" and many even do better when given an opportunity to tear into something and see for themselves how things work. It is another liberal lie that there can be no personal improvement without a college education. On one point, I can agree with the liberal viewpoint that the laborers, those who work with their hands, should be paid more than some college-educated hack who would starve if required to actually work for a living.

I know. I completely agree. they believe falsely that a piece of paper = intelligence/education. It's not true. I know lots of people who dont have a college degree that are far smarter and better educated that some of the people I went to school with who literally drank their way through school and didnt learn jack.

 

[Unkotare]

The real way to fix education: segregation. Get the Trayvon Martins out of the classroom.

Not sure if you were aware of this, but you can shut the fuck up anytime.

 

[Unkotare]

On one point, I can agree with the liberal viewpoint that the laborers, those who work with their hands, should be paid more than some college-educated hack who would starve if required to actually work for a living.

There is no "should" about it. If anyone can negotiate more for their knowledge/skills/usefulness then they will be compensated accordingly. Don't go down the populist rabbit hole, you might not like where it ends.

 

[g5000]

Four pages and no one has mentioned vouchers.

Huh.


Studies show kids who get pre-school do better in life. So pre-school for all should be one goal.

Eliminate tenure up through 12th grade. If you are a horrible teacher, the principal should be able to fire you for cause. Drop kick your ass to the curb. Teachers should advance on merit, not longevity.

Vouchers. Let parents pick the school their kids will attend, not the government.


Readin', 'Ritin', 'Rithmetic. Science, science, and more science. And no more goddam movies in school! Teach! With chalk! Use non-volatile storage devices we call "books".

If a kid misspells a word on a science paper, points get taken off. If words are misspelled on a math test, points get taken off.

Teach the knowledge needed for the jobs of tomorrow, not the jobs of yesterday. Nanotechnology. Biotechnology. Robotics. The days of growing up and going to work in your daddy's factory are OVER!

If you would rather work a blue collar trade, no problem. We can provide plumbing classes. You can't outsource plumbers and electricians, that's for damned sure.

 

[Unkotare]

And no more goddam movies in school! Teach! With chalk! Use non-volatile storage devices we call "books".

What's with the hostility to film? It can be used like any other medium to supplement certain lessons. And most schools are moving away from actual chalk to white boards. Most schools still use books, so I'm not sure what you are ranting against there unless it's some anti-technology thing, which would seem odd considering the rest of your post.

 

[Unkotare]

Teach the knowledge needed for the jobs of tomorrow, not the jobs of yesterday. Nanotechnology. Biotechnology. Robotics.

You want these taught where? In high school?

 

[g5000]

And no more goddam movies in school! Teach! With chalk! Use non-volatile storage devices we call "books".

What's with the hostility to film? It can be used like any other medium to supplement certain lessons. And most schools are moving away from actual chalk to white boards. Most schools still use books, so I'm not sure what you are ranting against there unless it's some anti-technology thing, which would seem odd considering the rest of your post.

In the days leading up to holiday breaks, it is very common for non-educational films to be shown to kids. This is because if teachers give assignments up to the last day before break, they have to grade them during the break.

White boards, chalkboards, whatever. Do some real school work.

I am not anti-technology. I am anti-laziness.

 

[g5000]

Teach the knowledge needed for the jobs of tomorrow, not the jobs of yesterday. Nanotechnology. Biotechnology. Robotics.

You want these taught where? In high school?

The mathematical and scientific foundations need to be laid down from the very beginning. Day One of kindergarten.

For example, when I was in boot camp, we were taught to fold our clothing and make our bunks in a very precise manner. This was later explained to us as teaching us to pay attention to detail. Some men would go on to become jet mechanics and others would go into the electronics fields, and so forth. They could not bring a jet engine or or a radar system into the barracks to teach attention to detail, but they could whip the shit out of us for not folding a T-shirt properly. This was shaping our minds for further specialized training to follow as we each moved on to our trades.

Understand?

This concept needs to be ramped up in our primary, elementary, and high schools. Mathematical formulas that are used across several fields. Chemistry. Physics. Calculus.

 

[inALIENable]

On one point, I can agree with the liberal viewpoint that the laborers, those who work with their hands, should be paid more than some college-educated hack who would starve if required to actually work for a living.

There is no "should" about it. If anyone can negotiate more for their knowledge/skills/usefulness then they will be compensated accordingly. Don't go down the populist rabbit hole, you might not like where it ends.

How much one earns will depend upon how much they are currently worth, stacked against the rest of course. And how much they are willing to accept.

And, those with an inflated value of self-worth and entitlement that find what others are offering for slave labor is insufficient, well, you folks can always decide to hire yourselves if you think you are really worth so much and go into business for yourselves. LOL, it's what I had to do to stop whining like a commie libtard.

Believe it or not, there is nothing wrong or disrespectful with being self employed, as opposed to slaving for another for whatever another values you're worth.

Education isn't broken, anyone that wants to learn can. Issue is, what to do with stupid when you can't fix stupid. I say send them home to live in their parents basement forever and ever. Parents should be held forever responsible for creating an ignorant unmotivated libtard because they sure aren't my fault or responsibility. Hey, make all prospective parents buy tard insurance before they commence with the screwing part of all this mess. Notify dear leader and have him command it to be so.

 

[initforme]

The first thing that will have the biggest impact is to fix the parents of this country. Observing kids today I would make the generalization that alot of american parents do a very poor job of parenting. Either they are too busy or too lazy but surely if you want education to get fixed then you had better fix the home lives of kids right now. If not, I dont care what you do, things cannot improve in the system. You cant make a nice care out of bad parts. You cant take a kid with a screwed up home life and make them into an engineer. There are exceptions but they are few and far between. It all comes down to parenting which is severlely lacking in this society. Top that with american really doesn value education. People say they do, but they really dont. I for one believe all kids should get post high school education. That will eliminate working blue collar jobs for low pay. Blue collar companies will have a harder time finding workers. That will be a good thing.

 

[Crackerjack]

Observing kids today I would make the generalization that alot of american parents do a very poor job of parenting. Either they are too busy or too lazy but surely if you want education to get fixed then you had better fix the home lives of kids right now.

Here's an idea: lower taxes so that it doesn't take two parents working full-time jobs to carry the load.

 

[Unkotare]

Teach the knowledge needed for the jobs of tomorrow, not the jobs of yesterday. Nanotechnology. Biotechnology. Robotics.

You want these taught where? In high school?

The mathematical and scientific foundations need to be laid down from the very beginning. Day One of kindergarten.

For example, when I was in boot camp, we were taught to fold our clothing and make our bunks in a very precise manner. This was later explained to us as teaching us to pay attention to detail. Some men would go on to become jet mechanics and others would go into the electronics fields, and so forth. They could not bring a jet engine or or a radar system into the barracks to teach attention to detail, but they could whip the shit out of us for not folding a T-shirt properly. This was shaping our minds for further specialized training to follow as we each moved on to our trades.

Understand?

This concept needs to be ramped up in our primary, elementary, and high schools. Mathematical formulas that are used across several fields. Chemistry. Physics. Calculus.

That's all well and good, but you didn't answer my question. YOU brought up Nanotechnology. Biotechnology. Robotics. If your point is that a foundation in science is important, that's fine but that is happening now. If your point is that we need to do it better, well, we need to do everything better. At some point you run up against the inherent flaw in a mandatory public school system.

 

[Unkotare]

Observing kids today I would make the generalization that alot of american parents do a very poor job of parenting. Either they are too busy or too lazy but surely if you want education to get fixed then you had better fix the home lives of kids right now.

Here's an idea: lower taxes so that it doesn't take two parents working full-time jobs to carry the load.

You'll never lower taxes enough for that to be the case.

 

[inALIENable]

Here's a novel idea: instead of using an arbitrary age of 18 when we declare a child now an educated and responsible adult, why not use some other criteria, i.e. no bird, err I mean child, no child can be declared an adult until they can prove they are mature and educated sufficiently to now fly on their own. Brilliant idea, huh?

They stay at home until they can fly on their own. It should be illegal for parents to dump their children out onto the streets unprepared no matter what their actual calendar age may be.