The radicalization of white Americans

[John Shaw]

Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, you know. I think I stated my opinion clearly enough the first time; you are here to preach. Don't talk about dialogue when you have no interest in it.

Appeal to authority is your excuse because you can't dispute things I have sad. Dialogue for you is you wanting to express a white opinion of blacks based on non factual bullshit and me agreeing with it.

Dispute what? Everything you say basically amounts to the same thing. White people are bad and are oppressors. Black people are all poor innocent victims. White people are always wrong about everything. I'm always right about everything.

How does one have a conversation when those are your "facts"?

"Because most whites have not been trained to think with complexity about racism, and because it benefits white dominance not to do so, we have a very limited understanding of it (Kumashiro, 2009; LaDuke, 2009). We are the least likely to see, comprehend, or be invested in validating people of color’s assertions of racism and being honest about their consequences (King, 1991). At the same time, because of white social, economic, and political power within a white dominant culture, whites are the group in the position to legitimize people of color’s assertions of racism. Being in this position engenders a form of racial arrogance, and in this racial arrogance, whites have little compunction about debating the knowledge of people who have thought deeply about race through research, study, peer-reviewed scholarship, deep and on-going critical self-reflection, interracial relationships, and lived experience (Chinnery, 2008). This expertise is often trivialized and countered with simplistic platitudes, such as “people just need to see each other as individuals” or “see each other as humans” or “take personal responsibility.”

White lack of racial humility often leads to declarations of disagreement when in fact the problem is that we do not understand. Whites generally feel free to dismiss informed perspectives rather than have the humility to acknowledge that they are unfamiliar, reflect on them further, seek more information, or sustain a dialogue (DiAngelo & Sensoy, 2009)."

Dr. Robin DiAngelo

These are words from a white person. This history and present in America is what it is.Racism is a form of abusive behavior based upon the belief in the superiority of you race. This abuse involves, physical, psychological, emotional, plus there were especially in the past, sexual abuse.

“Bryant-Davis and Ocampo (2005) noted similar courses of psychopathology between rape victims and victims of racism. Both events are an assault on the personhood and integrity of the victim. Similar to rape victims, race-related trauma victims may respond with disbelief, shock, or dissociation, which can prevent them from responding to the incident in a healthy manner. The victim may then feel shame and self-blame because they were unable to respond or defend themselves, which may lead to low self-concept and self-destructive behaviors. In the same study, a parallel was drawn between race-related trauma victims and victims of domestic violence. Both survivors are made to feel shame over allowing themselves to be victimized. For instance, someone who may have experienced a racist incident may be told that if they are polite, work hard, and/or dress in a certain way, they will not encounter racism. When these rules are followed yet racism persists, powerlessness, hyper vigilance, and other symptoms associated with PTSD may develop or worsen (Bryant-Davis & Ocampo, 2005).”

If you study abuse, it has been shown that specific types of abuse can cause different types behaviors ether positive or negative. I have held all types of conversations in social and other settings about race as well as the impact of racism from the perspective of being black. What I discovered is that a lot of whites really don’t have much of a clue about what racism can do to a person. For example, you try explaining to a white person that blacks riot in their communities because of white racism and the first thing you hear is, ’Come on man white racism did not cause that.” Now here we have a person who has not experienced the first second of what racism does to a person talking about what they believe cannot happen.

Yet if you talk to this same person about child abuse, sexual abuse or other types of abuses, they are more than able to talk about the behaviors that can result. But racism, well that’s just something you can easily get beyond. Meanwhile every other abuse is a lifelong struggle for the person who must deal with it.

There has been tremendous psychological damage caused to nonwhites because of the racist policies and individual actions by whites in America and worldwide. But what some whites seem to think is that racism is simple and that it carries no psychological consequences to those who are the victims of it.

“On occasion, the emotional weight of racism can lead African Americans to engage in maladaptive coping, such as remaining in denial, engaging in substance use, aggression, self-blame – even in extreme cases suicide (i.e., Black Lives Matter activist Marshawn McCarrel) and terrorism (i.e., Dallas shooter Micah Xavier Johnson). These responses are harmful and lead to negative, long-term consequences.”

Monnica T. Williams Ph.D.

You want a dialogue. If that is what you want, you have to do better than crying about how I think whites are oppressors and blacks are all poor innocent victims. You need to dig deep and study the overall impact of white racsim on people instead of taking the easy way out because you are white and can't face it.


~

If I had a magic power to prevent people from getting discriminated against for shit that is outside their control (including race), I would gladly do so. Alas, I lack that mystical power. Which, of course, you are well aware. You are talking to the wrong people.

It is about if you have the will and CONTENT OF CHARACTER to WANT to do.

I guess my question is, what do you actually think needs to happen to make life better for black Americans? What, specifically, do you think needs to happen? And not something miraculous like; every racist in America just randomly changed their minds all of a sudden and isn't racist anymore.

 

[IM2]

Appeal to authority is your excuse because you can't dispute things I have sad. Dialogue for you is you wanting to express a white opinion of blacks based on non factual bullshit and me agreeing with it.

Dispute what? Everything you say basically amounts to the same thing. White people are bad and are oppressors. Black people are all poor innocent victims. White people are always wrong about everything. I'm always right about everything.

How does one have a conversation when those are your "facts"?

"Because most whites have not been trained to think with complexity about racism, and because it benefits white dominance not to do so, we have a very limited understanding of it (Kumashiro, 2009; LaDuke, 2009). We are the least likely to see, comprehend, or be invested in validating people of color’s assertions of racism and being honest about their consequences (King, 1991). At the same time, because of white social, economic, and political power within a white dominant culture, whites are the group in the position to legitimize people of color’s assertions of racism. Being in this position engenders a form of racial arrogance, and in this racial arrogance, whites have little compunction about debating the knowledge of people who have thought deeply about race through research, study, peer-reviewed scholarship, deep and on-going critical self-reflection, interracial relationships, and lived experience (Chinnery, 2008). This expertise is often trivialized and countered with simplistic platitudes, such as “people just need to see each other as individuals” or “see each other as humans” or “take personal responsibility.”

White lack of racial humility often leads to declarations of disagreement when in fact the problem is that we do not understand. Whites generally feel free to dismiss informed perspectives rather than have the humility to acknowledge that they are unfamiliar, reflect on them further, seek more information, or sustain a dialogue (DiAngelo & Sensoy, 2009)."

Dr. Robin DiAngelo

These are words from a white person. This history and present in America is what it is.Racism is a form of abusive behavior based upon the belief in the superiority of you race. This abuse involves, physical, psychological, emotional, plus there were especially in the past, sexual abuse.

“Bryant-Davis and Ocampo (2005) noted similar courses of psychopathology between rape victims and victims of racism. Both events are an assault on the personhood and integrity of the victim. Similar to rape victims, race-related trauma victims may respond with disbelief, shock, or dissociation, which can prevent them from responding to the incident in a healthy manner. The victim may then feel shame and self-blame because they were unable to respond or defend themselves, which may lead to low self-concept and self-destructive behaviors. In the same study, a parallel was drawn between race-related trauma victims and victims of domestic violence. Both survivors are made to feel shame over allowing themselves to be victimized. For instance, someone who may have experienced a racist incident may be told that if they are polite, work hard, and/or dress in a certain way, they will not encounter racism. When these rules are followed yet racism persists, powerlessness, hyper vigilance, and other symptoms associated with PTSD may develop or worsen (Bryant-Davis & Ocampo, 2005).”

If you study abuse, it has been shown that specific types of abuse can cause different types behaviors ether positive or negative. I have held all types of conversations in social and other settings about race as well as the impact of racism from the perspective of being black. What I discovered is that a lot of whites really don’t have much of a clue about what racism can do to a person. For example, you try explaining to a white person that blacks riot in their communities because of white racism and the first thing you hear is, ’Come on man white racism did not cause that.” Now here we have a person who has not experienced the first second of what racism does to a person talking about what they believe cannot happen.

Yet if you talk to this same person about child abuse, sexual abuse or other types of abuses, they are more than able to talk about the behaviors that can result. But racism, well that’s just something you can easily get beyond. Meanwhile every other abuse is a lifelong struggle for the person who must deal with it.

There has been tremendous psychological damage caused to nonwhites because of the racist policies and individual actions by whites in America and worldwide. But what some whites seem to think is that racism is simple and that it carries no psychological consequences to those who are the victims of it.

“On occasion, the emotional weight of racism can lead African Americans to engage in maladaptive coping, such as remaining in denial, engaging in substance use, aggression, self-blame – even in extreme cases suicide (i.e., Black Lives Matter activist Marshawn McCarrel) and terrorism (i.e., Dallas shooter Micah Xavier Johnson). These responses are harmful and lead to negative, long-term consequences.”

Monnica T. Williams Ph.D.

You want a dialogue. If that is what you want, you have to do better than crying about how I think whites are oppressors and blacks are all poor innocent victims. You need to dig deep and study the overall impact of white racsim on people instead of taking the easy way out because you are white and can't face it.


~

If I had a magic power to prevent people from getting discriminated against for shit that is outside their control (including race), I would gladly do so. Alas, I lack that mystical power. Which, of course, you are well aware. You are talking to the wrong people.

It is about if you have the will and CONTENT OF CHARACTER to WANT to do.

I guess my question is, what do you actually think needs to happen to make life better for black Americans? What, specifically, do you think needs to happen? And not something miraculous like; every racist in America just randomly changed their minds all of a sudden and isn't racist anymore.

My question is what do whites need to do in order to rid their community of it's racism? .And what are YOU going to do in order to help make it happen?

Because that is what will make life better for black Americans.

 

[John Shaw]

Dispute what? Everything you say basically amounts to the same thing. White people are bad and are oppressors. Black people are all poor innocent victims. White people are always wrong about everything. I'm always right about everything.

How does one have a conversation when those are your "facts"?

"Because most whites have not been trained to think with complexity about racism, and because it benefits white dominance not to do so, we have a very limited understanding of it (Kumashiro, 2009; LaDuke, 2009). We are the least likely to see, comprehend, or be invested in validating people of color’s assertions of racism and being honest about their consequences (King, 1991). At the same time, because of white social, economic, and political power within a white dominant culture, whites are the group in the position to legitimize people of color’s assertions of racism. Being in this position engenders a form of racial arrogance, and in this racial arrogance, whites have little compunction about debating the knowledge of people who have thought deeply about race through research, study, peer-reviewed scholarship, deep and on-going critical self-reflection, interracial relationships, and lived experience (Chinnery, 2008). This expertise is often trivialized and countered with simplistic platitudes, such as “people just need to see each other as individuals” or “see each other as humans” or “take personal responsibility.”

White lack of racial humility often leads to declarations of disagreement when in fact the problem is that we do not understand. Whites generally feel free to dismiss informed perspectives rather than have the humility to acknowledge that they are unfamiliar, reflect on them further, seek more information, or sustain a dialogue (DiAngelo & Sensoy, 2009)."

Dr. Robin DiAngelo

These are words from a white person. This history and present in America is what it is.Racism is a form of abusive behavior based upon the belief in the superiority of you race. This abuse involves, physical, psychological, emotional, plus there were especially in the past, sexual abuse.

“Bryant-Davis and Ocampo (2005) noted similar courses of psychopathology between rape victims and victims of racism. Both events are an assault on the personhood and integrity of the victim. Similar to rape victims, race-related trauma victims may respond with disbelief, shock, or dissociation, which can prevent them from responding to the incident in a healthy manner. The victim may then feel shame and self-blame because they were unable to respond or defend themselves, which may lead to low self-concept and self-destructive behaviors. In the same study, a parallel was drawn between race-related trauma victims and victims of domestic violence. Both survivors are made to feel shame over allowing themselves to be victimized. For instance, someone who may have experienced a racist incident may be told that if they are polite, work hard, and/or dress in a certain way, they will not encounter racism. When these rules are followed yet racism persists, powerlessness, hyper vigilance, and other symptoms associated with PTSD may develop or worsen (Bryant-Davis & Ocampo, 2005).”

If you study abuse, it has been shown that specific types of abuse can cause different types behaviors ether positive or negative. I have held all types of conversations in social and other settings about race as well as the impact of racism from the perspective of being black. What I discovered is that a lot of whites really don’t have much of a clue about what racism can do to a person. For example, you try explaining to a white person that blacks riot in their communities because of white racism and the first thing you hear is, ’Come on man white racism did not cause that.” Now here we have a person who has not experienced the first second of what racism does to a person talking about what they believe cannot happen.

Yet if you talk to this same person about child abuse, sexual abuse or other types of abuses, they are more than able to talk about the behaviors that can result. But racism, well that’s just something you can easily get beyond. Meanwhile every other abuse is a lifelong struggle for the person who must deal with it.

There has been tremendous psychological damage caused to nonwhites because of the racist policies and individual actions by whites in America and worldwide. But what some whites seem to think is that racism is simple and that it carries no psychological consequences to those who are the victims of it.

“On occasion, the emotional weight of racism can lead African Americans to engage in maladaptive coping, such as remaining in denial, engaging in substance use, aggression, self-blame – even in extreme cases suicide (i.e., Black Lives Matter activist Marshawn McCarrel) and terrorism (i.e., Dallas shooter Micah Xavier Johnson). These responses are harmful and lead to negative, long-term consequences.”

Monnica T. Williams Ph.D.

You want a dialogue. If that is what you want, you have to do better than crying about how I think whites are oppressors and blacks are all poor innocent victims. You need to dig deep and study the overall impact of white racsim on people instead of taking the easy way out because you are white and can't face it.


~

If I had a magic power to prevent people from getting discriminated against for shit that is outside their control (including race), I would gladly do so. Alas, I lack that mystical power. Which, of course, you are well aware. You are talking to the wrong people.

It is about if you have the will and CONTENT OF CHARACTER to WANT to do.

I guess my question is, what do you actually think needs to happen to make life better for black Americans? What, specifically, do you think needs to happen? And not something miraculous like; every racist in America just randomly changed their minds all of a sudden and isn't racist anymore.

My question is what do whites need to do in order to rid their community of it's racism? .And what are YOU going to do in order to help make it happen?

Nothing can rid the world of racism. It exists in every single society, and did so even before it had a name. Go to China. Go to Japan. They're far more racist than American whites are, perhaps out of ignorance moreso than malice, but nonetheless ...

The only thing that could rid the world of racism would be for everyone to belong to the same race. Which isn't possible because that's not how genetics work. And let's just say literally everyone on planet Earth were black. Now instead of racism, we would have colorism, which would be discrimination based upon skin color.

Tribalism is just part of the human experience. It is natural to side with those similar to you in appearance and culture and fear those who are different. Over time we continue to weaken tribalism and deepen understanding, but it takes dozens of years. No, centuries. The best we can do, in the short term, is ensure the LAW is treating people fairly. The rest has to come naturally, if it ever does.

As for your question about what I do ... I do my best to treat folks fairly. I'm not free of prejudice, but I try. That's about all I can do, that which is within my limited power.

 

[John Shaw]

Besides that, it's a 2-way street. The lecturing, hectoring, accusatory language, and just treating white people like they are all malicious, racist oppressors ... it's been going on for as long as I can remember and obviously it isn't working. If you want someone to work with you on something, how do you go about it? Do you aggressively attack them, or just ask for help? I usually just ask for help.

 

[Olde Europe]

As for your question about what I do ... I do my best to treat folks fairly. I'm not free of prejudice, but I try. That's about all I can do, that which is within my limited power.

That's a good start. Really, it is.

Why then...

I guess my question is, what do you actually think needs to happen to make life better for black Americans?​

... do you not have anything to contribute to the answer as to what needs to happen?

Like, just for instance, participating substantially in any debate on racism, as opposed to decrying those who do?

Like, standing up to prejudices wherever they are at work to make life miserable for others?

Seriously, I am asking: Why have you no idea what is to be done? It isn't as if the problem with racism popped up, entirely unexpectedly, yesterday.

 

[John Shaw]

As for your question about what I do ... I do my best to treat folks fairly. I'm not free of prejudice, but I try. That's about all I can do, that which is within my limited power.

That's a good start. Really, it is.

Why then...

I guess my question is, what do you actually think needs to happen to make life better for black Americans?​

... do you not have anything to contribute to the answer as to what needs to happen?

Like, just for instance, participating substantially in any debate on racism, as opposed to decrying those who do?

Like, standing up to prejudices wherever they are at work to make life miserable for others?

Seriously, I am asking: Why have you no idea what is to be done? It isn't as if the problem with racism popped up, entirely unexpectedly, yesterday.

What exactly am I supposed to do? The only place I actually see people being racist is online. Otherwise people pretty much just go about their business.

 

[IM2]

"Because most whites have not been trained to think with complexity about racism, and because it benefits white dominance not to do so, we have a very limited understanding of it (Kumashiro, 2009; LaDuke, 2009). We are the least likely to see, comprehend, or be invested in validating people of color’s assertions of racism and being honest about their consequences (King, 1991). At the same time, because of white social, economic, and political power within a white dominant culture, whites are the group in the position to legitimize people of color’s assertions of racism. Being in this position engenders a form of racial arrogance, and in this racial arrogance, whites have little compunction about debating the knowledge of people who have thought deeply about race through research, study, peer-reviewed scholarship, deep and on-going critical self-reflection, interracial relationships, and lived experience (Chinnery, 2008). This expertise is often trivialized and countered with simplistic platitudes, such as “people just need to see each other as individuals” or “see each other as humans” or “take personal responsibility.”

White lack of racial humility often leads to declarations of disagreement when in fact the problem is that we do not understand. Whites generally feel free to dismiss informed perspectives rather than have the humility to acknowledge that they are unfamiliar, reflect on them further, seek more information, or sustain a dialogue (DiAngelo & Sensoy, 2009)."

Dr. Robin DiAngelo

These are words from a white person. This history and present in America is what it is.Racism is a form of abusive behavior based upon the belief in the superiority of you race. This abuse involves, physical, psychological, emotional, plus there were especially in the past, sexual abuse.

“Bryant-Davis and Ocampo (2005) noted similar courses of psychopathology between rape victims and victims of racism. Both events are an assault on the personhood and integrity of the victim. Similar to rape victims, race-related trauma victims may respond with disbelief, shock, or dissociation, which can prevent them from responding to the incident in a healthy manner. The victim may then feel shame and self-blame because they were unable to respond or defend themselves, which may lead to low self-concept and self-destructive behaviors. In the same study, a parallel was drawn between race-related trauma victims and victims of domestic violence. Both survivors are made to feel shame over allowing themselves to be victimized. For instance, someone who may have experienced a racist incident may be told that if they are polite, work hard, and/or dress in a certain way, they will not encounter racism. When these rules are followed yet racism persists, powerlessness, hyper vigilance, and other symptoms associated with PTSD may develop or worsen (Bryant-Davis & Ocampo, 2005).”

If you study abuse, it has been shown that specific types of abuse can cause different types behaviors ether positive or negative. I have held all types of conversations in social and other settings about race as well as the impact of racism from the perspective of being black. What I discovered is that a lot of whites really don’t have much of a clue about what racism can do to a person. For example, you try explaining to a white person that blacks riot in their communities because of white racism and the first thing you hear is, ’Come on man white racism did not cause that.” Now here we have a person who has not experienced the first second of what racism does to a person talking about what they believe cannot happen.

Yet if you talk to this same person about child abuse, sexual abuse or other types of abuses, they are more than able to talk about the behaviors that can result. But racism, well that’s just something you can easily get beyond. Meanwhile every other abuse is a lifelong struggle for the person who must deal with it.

There has been tremendous psychological damage caused to nonwhites because of the racist policies and individual actions by whites in America and worldwide. But what some whites seem to think is that racism is simple and that it carries no psychological consequences to those who are the victims of it.

“On occasion, the emotional weight of racism can lead African Americans to engage in maladaptive coping, such as remaining in denial, engaging in substance use, aggression, self-blame – even in extreme cases suicide (i.e., Black Lives Matter activist Marshawn McCarrel) and terrorism (i.e., Dallas shooter Micah Xavier Johnson). These responses are harmful and lead to negative, long-term consequences.”

Monnica T. Williams Ph.D.

You want a dialogue. If that is what you want, you have to do better than crying about how I think whites are oppressors and blacks are all poor innocent victims. You need to dig deep and study the overall impact of white racsim on people instead of taking the easy way out because you are white and can't face it.


~

If I had a magic power to prevent people from getting discriminated against for shit that is outside their control (including race), I would gladly do so. Alas, I lack that mystical power. Which, of course, you are well aware. You are talking to the wrong people.

It is about if you have the will and CONTENT OF CHARACTER to WANT to do.

I guess my question is, what do you actually think needs to happen to make life better for black Americans? What, specifically, do you think needs to happen? And not something miraculous like; every racist in America just randomly changed their minds all of a sudden and isn't racist anymore.

My question is what do whites need to do in order to rid their community of it's racism? .And what are YOU going to do in order to help make it happen?

Nothing can rid the world of racism. It exists in every single society, and did so even before it had a name. Go to China. Go to Japan. They're far more racist than American whites are, perhaps out of ignorance moreso than malice, but nonetheless ...

The only thing that could rid the world of racism would be for everyone to belong to the same race. Which isn't possible because that's not how genetics work. And let's just say literally everyone on planet Earth were black. Now instead of racism, we would have colorism, which would be discrimination based upon skin color.

Tribalism is just part of the human experience. It is natural to side with those similar to you in appearance and culture and fear those who are different. Over time we continue to weaken tribalism and deepen understanding, but it takes dozens of years. No, centuries. The best we can do, in the short term, is ensure the LAW is treating people fairly. The rest has to come naturally, if it ever does.

As for your question about what I do ... I do my best to treat folks fairly. I'm not free of prejudice, but I try. That's about all I can do, that which is within my limited power.

John, your question was:

I guess my question is, what do you actually think needs to happen to make life better for black Americans?

Not japan or china.

Let me break it down so that you can understand the weaknesses in your argument. According to American history, a few undermanned people got tired of the British bullshit, fought them in war and formed a nation. They had far more limited power than you do to stop racsim in the white community. One man forced the British from India- Gandhi. A few blacks ended 200 years of overt white racism led by MLK. On a personal level me and 2 friends stood up against the capital city of this state and forced them to change city policy. So you are not powerless. It is a matter of will.

 

[IM2]

As for your question about what I do ... I do my best to treat folks fairly. I'm not free of prejudice, but I try. That's about all I can do, that which is within my limited power.

That's a good start. Really, it is.

Why then...

I guess my question is, what do you actually think needs to happen to make life better for black Americans?​

... do you not have anything to contribute to the answer as to what needs to happen?

Like, just for instance, participating substantially in any debate on racism, as opposed to decrying those who do?

Like, standing up to prejudices wherever they are at work to make life miserable for others?

Seriously, I am asking: Why have you no idea what is to be done? It isn't as if the problem with racism popped up, entirely unexpectedly, yesterday.

What exactly am I supposed to do? The only place I actually see people being racist is online. Otherwise people pretty much just go about their business.

You probably ignore or are unaware of the more subtle forms of racism. These guys are part of the world . They have jobs and some are decision makers.

 

[Olde Europe]

What exactly am I supposed to do? The only place I actually see people being racist is online. Otherwise people pretty much just go about their business.

It appears, you are living in eff'n paradise. Fine.

Since this thread is about The radicalization of white Americans, and the OP details that one major contribution to that is Whites' sense they are the victims of nefarious forces, about how Whites take umbrage, are increasingly outraged, and may even act on that...

What wrongs? I suppose "being alive" or "existing" is a wrong now if you are white. In your, erm, expert opinion.​

... it so happens I find you are a good example of one who is of good will, principally, but cannot see any racism around himself in real life, but already is convinced he's somehow the victim. Your very existence declared a "wrong".

That dynamic, of course, is one of the major forces that got Trump elected on a racially charged - not to forget, misogynistic - wave of White radicalization. And you noticed none of that.

 

[John Shaw]

What exactly am I supposed to do? The only place I actually see people being racist is online. Otherwise people pretty much just go about their business.

It appears, you are living in eff'n paradise. Fine.

Since this thread is about The radicalization of white Americans, and the OP details that one major contribution to that is Whites' sense they are the victims of nefarious forces, about how Whites take umbrage, are increasingly outraged, and may even act on that...

What wrongs? I suppose "being alive" or "existing" is a wrong now if you are white. In your, erm, expert opinion.​

... it so happens I find you are a good example of one who is of good will, principally, but cannot see any racism around himself in real life, but already is convinced he's somehow the victim. Your very existence declared a "wrong".

That dynamic, of course, is one of the major forces that got Trump elected on a racially charged - not to forget, misogynistic - wave of White radicalization. And you noticed none of that.

I don't see myself as a victim. I was mocking IM2's posts.

I know racism and fear are two of the main drivers of Trump's rise. I've been saying that since the very beginning. You're making too many assumptions about me and not being fully accurate. I get frustrated when people just say "white people are the problem" and don't think any more deeply than that. They are contributing to the right's sullen resistance to self-reflection.

 

[Olde Europe]

I don't see myself as a victim. I was mocking IM2's posts.

I know racism and fear are two of the main drivers of Trump's rise. I've been saying that since the very beginning. You're making too many assumptions about me and not being fully accurate. I get frustrated when people just say "white people are the problem" and don't think any more deeply than that. They are contributing to the right's sullen resistance to self-reflection.

I know you were mocking him. The way you chose your mockery is still your decision, as is the disrespectful way in which you treated IM2 generally, and it both gives you away.

White people, a great number of them, are the problem. They, and their racism, are the main obstacles Blacks are facing, and their ignorance, their not even knowing themselves and their racism, are the biggest obstacles to change. You've perceptively noted that Trump runs on racism and fear, and yet you see no racism around you in real life.

But enough about you. There ought to be enough radicalization to be found to talk about.

 

[John Shaw]

I don't see myself as a victim. I was mocking IM2's posts.

I know racism and fear are two of the main drivers of Trump's rise. I've been saying that since the very beginning. You're making too many assumptions about me and not being fully accurate. I get frustrated when people just say "white people are the problem" and don't think any more deeply than that. They are contributing to the right's sullen resistance to self-reflection.

I know you were mocking him. The way you chose your mockery is still your decision, as is the disrespectful way in which you treated IM2 generally, and it both gives you away.

White people, a great number of them, are the problem. They, and their racism, are the main obstacles Blacks are facing, and their ignorance, their not even knowing themselves and their racism, are the biggest obstacles to change. You've perceptively noted that Trump runs on racism and fear, and yet you see no racism around you in real life.

But enough about you. There ought to be enough radicalization to be found to talk about.

White people are the main obstacle? In what sense?

See, this is that adversarial talk I was referring to earlier. Why would white people listen when they're being referred to as obstacles and enemies right out the gate?

And as long as we're referring to white and black as two separate and distinct entities, isn't it the black folks who are primarily interested in attaining political, social, and financial equity with other racial groups, primarily white and Asian? Isn't it then their role, as the party that wants something, to make an offer? And within that offer, shouldn't there be something of interest to make it worthwhile to "whites" and others to help them? It seems to me that attacking someone's identity and threatening to take things from them is not a very appealing offer.

 

[toobfreak]

USMB is full of these examples.
The radicalization of white Americans

Attaboy, son! No better way to address racism and race relations than to perennially always only look at one side of it while trying to add to the divide!

While whites are more tolerant and open to racial differences now than any other time in history, blacks are at their least!

I am looking a both sides. That's what you are too stupid to understand.

Show us all your threads on the radicalization of Black Americans.

 

[IM2]

What exactly am I supposed to do? The only place I actually see people being racist is online. Otherwise people pretty much just go about their business.

It appears, you are living in eff'n paradise. Fine.

Since this thread is about The radicalization of white Americans, and the OP details that one major contribution to that is Whites' sense they are the victims of nefarious forces, about how Whites take umbrage, are increasingly outraged, and may even act on that...

What wrongs? I suppose "being alive" or "existing" is a wrong now if you are white. In your, erm, expert opinion.​

... it so happens I find you are a good example of one who is of good will, principally, but cannot see any racism around himself in real life, but already is convinced he's somehow the victim. Your very existence declared a "wrong".

That dynamic, of course, is one of the major forces that got Trump elected on a racially charged - not to forget, misogynistic - wave of White radicalization. And you noticed none of that.

I don't see myself as a victim. I was mocking IM2's posts.

I know racism and fear are two of the main drivers of Trump's rise. I've been saying that since the very beginning. You're making too many assumptions about me and not being fully accurate. I get frustrated when people just say "white people are the problem" and don't think any more deeply than that. They are contributing to the right's sullen resistance to self-reflection.

I've gone way past the simple minded immature assertion you made about me. You suffer from the same problem white progressives suffer from. Like them, you feel great that you can make comments dissing racists, but just as long as it's not mentioned they are white people.

I grew up and became a man long before the current white victimhood movement. You have lived your entire life listening to whites crying about how people see them. How we only say things because you are white and nothing else. That you are being blamed only for being white. This lie is why you, a 20 something year old white, is trying to argue with a man twice your age based on what you have learned in your 20 something years of life. You are the one who can't think any deeper than whites are just being blamed for being white and nothing else. You've proven it here. Olde Europe correctly called you on it.

And le me tell you one last thing. Life doesn't pass anyone by just because they get older. I've been here living all the same 20 something years you have. I have leaned to use the technology you have. The ONLY difference outside of racial experiences I have is the 30 plus years I have seen that you have not. .

 

[toobfreak]

white progressives suffer
they are white people
I grew up
current white victimhood
listening to whites
you are white and nothing
for being white
old white
deeper than whites
blamed for being white

. . .And all that just from one post!
Classic anti-White bias Black inferiority complex.
And no, he's yet to grow up.

 

[John Shaw]

What exactly am I supposed to do? The only place I actually see people being racist is online. Otherwise people pretty much just go about their business.

It appears, you are living in eff'n paradise. Fine.

Since this thread is about The radicalization of white Americans, and the OP details that one major contribution to that is Whites' sense they are the victims of nefarious forces, about how Whites take umbrage, are increasingly outraged, and may even act on that...

What wrongs? I suppose "being alive" or "existing" is a wrong now if you are white. In your, erm, expert opinion.​

... it so happens I find you are a good example of one who is of good will, principally, but cannot see any racism around himself in real life, but already is convinced he's somehow the victim. Your very existence declared a "wrong".

That dynamic, of course, is one of the major forces that got Trump elected on a racially charged - not to forget, misogynistic - wave of White radicalization. And you noticed none of that.

I don't see myself as a victim. I was mocking IM2's posts.

I know racism and fear are two of the main drivers of Trump's rise. I've been saying that since the very beginning. You're making too many assumptions about me and not being fully accurate. I get frustrated when people just say "white people are the problem" and don't think any more deeply than that. They are contributing to the right's sullen resistance to self-reflection.

I've gone way past the simple minded immature assertion you made about me. You suffer from the same problem white progressives suffer from. Like them, you feel great that you can make comments dissing racists, but just as long as it's not mentioned they are white people.

I grew up and became a man long before the current white victimhood movement. You have lived your entire life listening to whites crying about how people see them. How we only say things because you are white and nothing else. That you are being blamed only for being white. This lie is why you, a 20 something year old white, is trying to argue with a man twice your age based on what you have learned in your 20 something years of life. You are the one who can't think any deeper than whites are just being blamed for being white and nothing else. You've proven it here. Olde Europe correctly called you on it.

And le me tell you one last thing. Life doesn't pass anyone by just because they get older. I've been here living all the same 20 something years you have. I have leaned to use the technology you have. The ONLY difference outside of racial experiences I have is the 30 plus years I have seen that you have not. .

I said just saying white people are the problem is not going to change anything. 1. It simply isn't true, and 2. ... I've already made the point in the post above yours. 3. Why do you always have to bring up my age? Are you self-conscious or something? Like, what the fuck ...

 

[IM2]

I don't see myself as a victim. I was mocking IM2's posts.

I know racism and fear are two of the main drivers of Trump's rise. I've been saying that since the very beginning. You're making too many assumptions about me and not being fully accurate. I get frustrated when people just say "white people are the problem" and don't think any more deeply than that. They are contributing to the right's sullen resistance to self-reflection.

I know you were mocking him. The way you chose your mockery is still your decision, as is the disrespectful way in which you treated IM2 generally, and it both gives you away.

White people, a great number of them, are the problem. They, and their racism, are the main obstacles Blacks are facing, and their ignorance, their not even knowing themselves and their racism, are the biggest obstacles to change. You've perceptively noted that Trump runs on racism and fear, and yet you see no racism around you in real life.

But enough about you. There ought to be enough radicalization to be found to talk about.

White people are the main obstacle? In what sense?

See, this is that adversarial talk I was referring to earlier. Why would white people listen when they're being referred to as obstacles and enemies right out the gate?

And as long as we're referring to white and black as two separate and distinct entities, isn't it the black folks who are primarily interested in attaining political, social, and financial equity with other racial groups, primarily white and Asian? Isn't it then their role, as the party that wants something, to make an offer? And within that offer, shouldn't there be something of interest to make it worthwhile to "whites" and others to help them? It seems to me that attacking someone's identity and threatening to take things from them is not a very appealing offer.

Whites have done this to everybdy else. Asians face the same racism we do and we don't have to make an offer with something of interest to make it worthwhile to "whites" to follow the law. Then you talk as if white racism isn't what's adversarial. You've got a lot to learn.

 

[IM2]

white progressives suffer
they are white people
I grew up
current white victimhood
listening to whites
you are white and nothing
for being white
old white
deeper than whites
blamed for being white

. . .And all that just from one post!
Classic anti-White bias Black inferiority complex.
And no, he's yet to grow up.

More of the expected white psychosis.

 

[toobfreak]

white progressives suffer
they are white people
I grew up
current white victimhood
listening to whites
you are white and nothing
for being white
old white
deeper than whites
blamed for being white

. . .And all that just from one post!
Classic anti-White bias Black inferiority complex.
And no, he's yet to grow up.

More of the expected white psychosis.

Well-stated from the master black psychotic.

BTW, where did you ever get the idea I was white? Or is that just more of your white prejudice? I never said what color I am, you just assume anyone who calls you out must be so.

 

[IM2]

What exactly am I supposed to do? The only place I actually see people being racist is online. Otherwise people pretty much just go about their business.

It appears, you are living in eff'n paradise. Fine.

Since this thread is about The radicalization of white Americans, and the OP details that one major contribution to that is Whites' sense they are the victims of nefarious forces, about how Whites take umbrage, are increasingly outraged, and may even act on that...

What wrongs? I suppose "being alive" or "existing" is a wrong now if you are white. In your, erm, expert opinion.​

... it so happens I find you are a good example of one who is of good will, principally, but cannot see any racism around himself in real life, but already is convinced he's somehow the victim. Your very existence declared a "wrong".

That dynamic, of course, is one of the major forces that got Trump elected on a racially charged - not to forget, misogynistic - wave of White radicalization. And you noticed none of that.

I don't see myself as a victim. I was mocking IM2's posts.

I know racism and fear are two of the main drivers of Trump's rise. I've been saying that since the very beginning. You're making too many assumptions about me and not being fully accurate. I get frustrated when people just say "white people are the problem" and don't think any more deeply than that. They are contributing to the right's sullen resistance to self-reflection.

I've gone way past the simple minded immature assertion you made about me. You suffer from the same problem white progressives suffer from. Like them, you feel great that you can make comments dissing racists, but just as long as it's not mentioned they are white people.

I grew up and became a man long before the current white victimhood movement. You have lived your entire life listening to whites crying about how people see them. How we only say things because you are white and nothing else. That you are being blamed only for being white. This lie is why you, a 20 something year old white, is trying to argue with a man twice your age based on what you have learned in your 20 something years of life. You are the one who can't think any deeper than whites are just being blamed for being white and nothing else. You've proven it here. Olde Europe correctly called you on it.

And le me tell you one last thing. Life doesn't pass anyone by just because they get older. I've been here living all the same 20 something years you have. I have leaned to use the technology you have. The ONLY difference outside of racial experiences I have is the 30 plus years I have seen that you have not. .

I said just saying white people are the problem is not going to change anything. 1. It simply isn't true, and 2. ... I've already made the point in the post above yours. 3. Why do you always have to bring up my age? Are you self-conscious or something? Like, what the fuck ...

White racism is the problem John. You've really not made any valid points. I bring up your age because it's a factor in the way you see things. I have no problem with you talking about my age so the only one self conscious is you.