Zone1 The Problem of Evil

[alang1216]

Hatred of God should not be so intense that one closes ones ears and mind to what Rabbi's have said, which in essence, man's actions have consequences. Secondly, when hardships happened, the people in Biblical times took the opportunity to assess their own behaviors in both good times and bad. In good times, there is the luxury of having leisure to focus on parties, good times, and independent ways that please self at the expense of what pleases God. In bad times...people turn to God--and to better behavior.

Try looking at the Bible as a treatise on human behavior and psychology. When humans do this, these are the consequences. When humans do that, those are the consequences. It is no different from when humans jump off a high place, gravity pulls them down. When humans control fire, they can stay warm during cold times.

Our ancestors--of whom many dismiss as being ignorant and superstitious--knew more about humanity than we do today. The beauty of the Bible is that those who have no belief in God can easily dismiss him. The good and bad that falls upon mankind is no different from the annual change in seasons. In this season, these things happen. In that season, those things happen. No God needed, these things are the result of the earth spinning and orbiting around the sun. When mankind does this, these are the result; when mankind does that, those are the results. No God needed. And there goes your villain into non-existence.

I have always had trouble respecting the morality of God based on his actions. It sounds like you may have the same problem.

 

[Meriweather]

I have always had trouble respecting the morality of God based on his actions. It sounds like you may have the same problem.

The reason I don't have the same problem is that I knew God before the Bible. Therefore, when I was old enough to study the Bible I was puzzled and bewildered by the Old Testament as it did not mesh with my own experience. However confident I was that I was right, how could the Bible be wrong. It was a conundrum. That's when I began a thorough and scrupulous study of the Old Testament.

The first thing I learned was so many people of the Jewish faith had no interest in explaining the Old Testament to me until I ran into a Jewish atheist whose first language was Hebrew. I also began studying Biblical histories and cultures. I studied commentary after commentary and learned that Hebrew and English have nothing in common--and nor do Biblical culture and modern Western culture. We speak differently, we think differently. These studies took decades, and in the end I saw that Old Testament writings were portraying the same God of love and mercy that I had experienced.

Modern humans pride themselves on being as sharp as tacks, but when it comes to the Bible--particularly the Old Testament--we are duller than the murkiest ditch water.

So, no, we don't have the same problem. Reading the Old Testament in modern English from the perspective of modern Western culture has people leaping to the conclusion of God as villain. Try spending thirty years learning the perspectives of Biblical culture and the Hebrew language...and learn there is no problem.

 

[ding]

Of the Solar System's eight planets and its eight most likely dwarf planets, six planets and six dwarf planets are known to be orbited by at least 299 natural satellites, or moons. So far as we know only one has life. That is 0.03%. Not many in a universe geared to life.


If that were true, why are morals different between cultures and times?

That's because the conditions for life don't exist there. But where they do, given enough time, life will arise because the laws of nature are fine tuned to produce life.

Subjectivity. But don't kid yourself, even in times immoral behaviors were accepted, there were those who said they were wrong.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Not even close my friend.

Kennedys = Bushes, Gores = Romneys....

A boxer's left-right knockout combination. Under the Richkid Reich, America is down for the count.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

It is no different from when humans jump off a high place, gravity pulls them down.

Therefore, the Hierarchy Wants to Keep Us in a Low Place

Kings invented gods in their own image.

 

[Clyde 154]

You'll be shocked to hear I disagree. Is the snake that eats kittens, evil or is it just living as it was made to live? Is the lion that kills the cubs of another lion evil or just trying to pass on his genes as his nature demands? I'm a believer in evolution and evolution requires winners and losers and this is the world we were born into. If there is a God, He designed this world to have winners and losers and He put man right in the middle of it. Genghis Khan built the largest empire man has ever seen and is celebrated as a great hero in Mongolia. The 10% of the population of Earth he killed might not agree. Was he evil or just following God's plan?

If a clock doesn't keep time you blame the clock maker, not the clock.

Your problem? You fail to realize that no animal can sin........in order to sin one must possess the ability of sentient rationality, i.e, the capacity to know the the difference between right and wrong. Only man is in possession of such a mental capacity. Animals do not comprehend right vs. wrong.........they kill, reproduce, eat, and protect their offspring...etc. by "instinct" not rational thinking and reasoning. There is no right and wrong in animal kingdom to (wink, wink) EVOLVE......only man lives by a set of reasonable and rational laws of morality. The question then becomes............from where did this capacity to comprehend right from wrong evolve? It must be transcendent to the natural if sin does not exist in nature.

No animal can be charged in a court of law for murder, theft....etc., because they cannot reason the outcome of their instinctive actions..........no animal or child can sin, at least until the child reaches the age of reasoning right from wrong.

Explain to us how MORALITY evolved from the animals. The kingdom of God is based upon the innocence such as exists in children. "Truly I (Jesus) say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." -- Matthew 18:3

Christianity does not involve THE NATURAL WORLD. The Christian becomes a citizen of a Spiritual Kingdom that exists with your heart, not in nature. (Luke 17:21) That's why the supposed Darwinian Cultists have such a problem with religion, they attempt to compare true religion to nature, when true people of faith are called out/way from nature into the spiritual realm of eternity. Jesus described attitudes such as you exhibit thusly: "If the world hates you, know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of this world, but I CHOSE YOU OUT OF THIS WORLD; therefore the world hates you."

I have never encountered a secular human that did not have hate in his/her heart for the things that are incomprehendible to their way of thinking.

 

[alang1216]

Your problem? You fail to realize that no animal can sin........

Your problem? You fail to realize that man is an animal.

Explain to us how MORALITY evolved from the animals.

There is moral code in the animal world and we see it in social animals that have to live together. Mother monkeys especially and the entire group to a lesser degree will discipline the youngsters when they behave in an unacceptable way.

Christianity does not involve THE NATURAL WORLD. The Christian becomes a citizen of a Spiritual Kingdom that exists with your heart, not in nature. (Luke 17:21) That's why the supposed Darwinian Cultists have such a problem with religion, they attempt to compare true religion to nature, when true people of faith are called out/way from nature into the spiritual realm of eternity. Jesus described attitudes such as you exhibit thusly: "If the world hates you, know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of this world, but I CHOSE YOU OUT OF THIS WORLD; therefore the world hates you."

I hear this all the time but history teaches a very different lesson. The morality of the Bronze age is different from the morality of Jesus' time and that morality is different from the morality of the West today. You may not believe in evolution but I see evolution in all things, biology, culture, religion, etc.

I have never encountered a secular human that did not have hate in his/her heart for the things that are incomprehendible to their way of thinking.

I have good friends who are devout, evangelical Christians. We talk politics and religion and laugh at ourselves and each other quite a lot. Atheists are no different from the religious, some hate the other group some don't.

 

[frigidweirdo]

When I was in college and took a philosophy of religion course, I was presented with the "problem of evil" paradox that has been made in the philosophies of religion. It goes something like this:

If God is an all powerful, all knowing, and an all loving being, then why is there evil in the world?

In other words, if God is all powerful, He would have the power to not allow evil in the world. If God is all knowing, He would have the know how to stop evil from being in the world. And, if God is an all loving and benevolent God surely He would not allow evil into the world! So, since there is evil in the world, then God cannot exist.

This is how the problem of evil was presented to me in my philosophy of religion course. After studying this "problem of evil" for several years upon hearing it, I finally came up with my LDS response to why there is evil in the world and why God allows it. I am curious as to how others answer this philosophical issue. So I ask all God fearing believers, how would you respond to this?

Based on what he does (genocide) in the Noah's Ark story, wiping out just about all living creatures, it'd seem that God actually gets turned on by a little violence...

 

[ding]

Your problem? You fail to realize that man is an animal.

And yours is you fail to recognize the higher aspects of man, search for God in texts you don't understand and never made an attempt to discover God through his creation.

 

[ding]

Based on what he does (genocide) in the Noah's Ark story, wiping out just about all living creatures, it'd seem that God actually gets turned on by a little violence...

If you read those texts and conclude that God is petty and condones violence then you are reading those texts wrong. If you read all of the accounts of the Bible you will see that they didn't believe God was petty or violent. I'm sure you are intelligent enough to be able to find another interpretation that shows God isn't petty or condones violence. Objective assessments evaluate all sides of an issue to arrive at objective truth. You have only examined one side. So if you are wrong you will be without excuse.

 

[ding]

I have always had trouble respecting the morality of God based on his actions. It sounds like you may have the same problem.

If you think of God as Truth, Love and Logic, you won't have that problem. God isn't a thing.

 

[alang1216]

If you think of God as Truth, Love and Logic, you won't have that problem. God isn't a thing.

Truth, Love, and Logic are concepts and intangibles don't create a material universe.

 

[ding]

Truth, Love, and Logic are concepts and intangibles don't create a material universe.

How do you know? The only "things" that can be eternal are the intangible. What do you believe potential and probabilities are? In fact, the laws of nature are intangible.

But my point remains, if you start seeing God as Truth, Love and Logic you might not have so much trouble respecting the morality of God or worrying about what a book - you don't understand - says.

 

[alang1216]

How do you know?

I've never seen it happen and can't imagine how it could happen.

The only "things" that can be eternal are the intangible.

Agreed.

What do you believe potential and probabilities are?

Just what the dictionary says.

In fact, the laws of nature are intangible.

Agreed

But my point remains, if you start seeing God as Truth, Love and Logic you might not have so much trouble respecting the morality of God or worrying about what a book - you don't understand - says.

If I see God as intangible then I can't believe he could be the Creator. BTW, I feel I have a good understanding of the Book, even if it differs from yours.

 

[ding]

I've never seen it happen and can't imagine how it could happen.


Agreed.


Just what the dictionary says.


Agreed


If I see God as intangible then I can't believe he could be the Creator. BTW, I feel I have a good understanding of the Book, even if it differs from yours.

You've never seen any universe created and you can't imagine how this universe was created. So my points still stands. If you start seeing God as Truth, Love and Logic you might not have so much trouble respecting the morality of God or worrying about what a book - you don't understand - says.

 

[surada]

 

[alang1216]

You've never seen any universe created and you can't imagine how this universe was created. So my points still stands. If you start seeing God as Truth, Love and Logic you might not have so much trouble respecting the morality of God or worrying about what a book - you don't understand - says.

Sorry but repeating something doesn't make it any more convincing.

 

[ding]

Sorry but repeating something doesn't make it any more convincing.

Just like you repeatedly ignoring the point that your poor opinion of God is based upon your ignorant interpretation of a book doesn't make it less idiotic.

So let me say it a third time... if you perceived God as Truth, Love or Logic you wouldn't have such a piss poor opinion of God.

Now do you understand my point?

 

[alang1216]

Just like you repeatedly ignoring the point that your poor opinion of God is based upon your ignorant interpretation of a book doesn't make it less idiotic.

So let me say it a third time... if you perceived God as Truth, Love or Logic you wouldn't have such a piss poor opinion of God.

Now do you understand my point?

Has not sunk in yet, you may want to repeat it again. (Is it 'and logic' or 'or logic'? Nevermind, it doesn't matter)

So if I had a 'correct' interpretation of the book I'd think like you do? Obviously I should believe you and not my lying eyes.

 

[ding]

Has not sunk in yet, you may want to repeat it again. (Is it 'and logic' or 'or logic'? Nevermind, it doesn't matter)

So if I had a 'correct' interpretation of the book I'd think like you do? Obviously I should believe you and not my lying eyes.

You base your perception of God on the bible. Why?