The preschool money pit doing more harm than good

[Correll]

I sent my son to a "no homework" HS, but they changed their minds immediately before the start of the school year.

The deal was, the kids were going to have two hours of organized work groups and study at the end of the school day, then leave at (approximately) 1700, finished for the day.

But the parents screamed about how that would kill extracurricular activities, and you know how that works out. Fuck education; sports rule!

How about 'fuck being lazy, do your damn homework and we'll keep the football team, the orchestra, and the math team'?

Because it's not about being lazy.

 

[Unkotare]

I sent my son to a "no homework" HS, but they changed their minds immediately before the start of the school year.

The deal was, the kids were going to have two hours of organized work groups and study at the end of the school day, then leave at (approximately) 1700, finished for the day.

But the parents screamed about how that would kill extracurricular activities, and you know how that works out. Fuck education; sports rule!

How about 'fuck being lazy, do your damn homework and we'll keep the football team, the orchestra, and the math team'?

Because it's not about being lazy.

Bullshit.

 

[Correll]

I sent my son to a "no homework" HS, but they changed their minds immediately before the start of the school year.

The deal was, the kids were going to have two hours of organized work groups and study at the end of the school day, then leave at (approximately) 1700, finished for the day.

But the parents screamed about how that would kill extracurricular activities, and you know how that works out. Fuck education; sports rule!

How about 'fuck being lazy, do your damn homework and we'll keep the football team, the orchestra, and the math team'?

Because it's not about being lazy.

Bullshit.

Is that how you handle it when your students have a different opinion?

 

[Unkotare]

I sent my son to a "no homework" HS, but they changed their minds immediately before the start of the school year.

The deal was, the kids were going to have two hours of organized work groups and study at the end of the school day, then leave at (approximately) 1700, finished for the day.

But the parents screamed about how that would kill extracurricular activities, and you know how that works out. Fuck education; sports rule!

How about 'fuck being lazy, do your damn homework and we'll keep the football team, the orchestra, and the math team'?

Because it's not about being lazy.

Bullshit.

Is that how you handle it when your students have a different opinion?

My students are smarter than you.

 

[ScienceRocks]

.....


What is your opinion on the "No homework" movement?

....about the same as a bowel movement.

I've been hearing some good reports from teachers who have tried it. The idea is you have the students READ the material at home and then have them DO THE WORK at school where you can help them as needed.

How much homework do you think a 2cd grader should have a night?

They can't be bothered with taking the book home with them, much less actually read it!

Lack of parental support is the prime cause of bad educational outcomes, normally found in single parent homes, because, let's face it one parent is going to be overwhelmed with her parenting duties to the point of not being able to do them all, at least not well.

I agree 100% with this. Liberals just can't admit this reality because of feminism and their hatred of men. I really wish some logic could draw both sides together in agreement of a common sense way of fixing this mess.

 

[Agit8r]

The New Preschool Is Crushing Kids
Today’s young children are working more, but they’re learning less.
That’s right. The same educational policies that are pushing academic goals down to ever earlier levels seem to be contributing to—while at the same time obscuring—the fact that young children are gaining fewer skills, not more.
How the New Preschool Is Crushing Kids

Can we start cutting things that have demonstrated no value......

I agree with my mother.We no longer allow children the time to be children. .....

Of course we do. It's called college.

And increasingly, it's called "adulthood"

 

[Agit8r]

From the article:
"By second grade, the children who had attended preschool performed worse than their peers."

Sees correlation. Presents as causation

 

[OnePercenter]

The New Preschool Is Crushing Kids
Today’s young children are working more, but they’re learning less.
That’s right. The same educational policies that are pushing academic goals down to ever earlier levels seem to be contributing to—while at the same time obscuring—the fact that young children are gaining fewer skills, not more.
How the New Preschool Is Crushing Kids

Can we start cutting things that have demonstrated no value......

What about human interaction.

 

[OnePercenter]

The entire school system is a money pit. We spend more per child than any other nation in the world (except Sweden) and testing scores compared to other advanced nations are atrocious.

Which wasn't the case in the early 70's (Mom stayed home, Dad brought in the money) prior to Republican backed income disparity started.

Anything bad for anyone except the rich and wealthy can be traced to the GOP. Except for that stupid-fuck George W. Bush.

 

[hadit]

There's very little more important than education. It is never a money pit...

Of course, the goat fucking loserterians would think such is.

That depends, of course, on whether the educational system we're pumping money into is really educating the kids, and doing so in a cost effective way. If we could get better education while spending less, would it not behoove us to pursue such?

 

[TNHarley]

There's very little more important than education. It is never a money pit...

Of course, the goat fucking loserterians would think such is.

That's we invest so much money into it while not succeeding in results?
You support insanity?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Preschool is overrated, it's nothing more than a babysitting service

 

[320 Years of History]

The New Preschool Is Crushing Kids
Today’s young children are working more, but they’re learning less.
That’s right. The same educational policies that are pushing academic goals down to ever earlier levels seem to be contributing to—while at the same time obscuring—the fact that young children are gaining fewer skills, not more.
How the New Preschool Is Crushing Kids

Can we start cutting things that have demonstrated no value......

Your sentiment seems like "throwing out the baby with the bathwater." My gut says that preschool is just like other levels of school: some institutions are effective at doing what they are supposed to and others are not. I don't think trashing kindergarten or trashing the idea of compelling kindergarten education is the right solution for the problem you've identified -- kids failing to master the skills taught there.

 

[320 Years of History]

Preschool is overrated, it's nothing more than a babysitting service

I suppose some of them are just that. I know that not all of them are only that.

• Our Philosophy and Goals
  
• Maret: Lower School Curriculum

I can only remember a handful of things from that period of my life.

• I learned French, and to this day, I remember one of the songs we sang in French class, Alouette. My own kids learned the same song in nursery school.
  
• I learned some acting basics and public speaking basics. Again, I still recall being the master of ceremonies for one of the school plays.
• I learned a little bit about how to read music and how to sing.
• I learned self-confidence.
• I learned how to read, write, count, add and subtract. I still use these skills. <winks>

The point isn't about the extent of mastery with the skills I first encountered in nursery school, only that being introduced to them seems like more than just babysitting. Having three kids who also attended nursery school and gained similar skills, I think nursery school even now is more than just a babysitting service.

Toddlers can and do learn quite a good deal in nursery school and kindergarten, but to be sure, not all such schools attempt to make that happen. If a preschool is not successful at building early skills in young children, it's only because they aren't trying to do so. Heck, one doesn't even have to try especially hard to make that happen. Small children are essentially "human sponges" who are willing, able, curious and just dying to engage with pretty much anything that comes their way. There's not much to do other than present the information/skill in a safe and entertaining way, and the rest will take care of itself.

 

[baileyn45]

Preschool is overrated, it's nothing more than a babysitting service

I suppose some of them are just that. I know that not all of them are only that.

• Our Philosophy and Goals
  
• Maret: Lower School Curriculum

I can only remember a handful of things from that period of my life.

• I learned French, and to this day, I remember one of the songs we sang in French class, Alouette. My own kids learned the same song in nursery school.
  
• I learned some acting basics and public speaking basics. Again, I still recall being the master of ceremonies for one of the school plays.
• I learned a little bit about how to read music and how to sing.
• I learned self-confidence.
• I learned how to read, write, count, add and subtract. I still use these skills. <winks>

The point isn't about the extent of mastery with the skills I first encountered in nursery school, only that being introduced to them seems like more than just babysitting. Having three kids who also attended nursery school and gained similar skills, I think nursery school even now is more than just a babysitting service.

Toddlers can and do learn quite a good deal in nursery school and kindergarten, but to be sure, not all such schools

attempt to make that happen. If a preschool is not successful at building early skills in young children, it's only because they aren't trying to do so. Heck, one doesn't even have to try especially hard to make that happen. Small children are essentially "human sponges" who are willing, able, curious and just dying to engage with pretty much anything that comes their way. There's not much to do other than present the information/skill in a safe and entertaining way, and the rest will take care of itself.

I would have to disagree. As one who saw his own children go through what is now considered "preschool" to now watching others put their children through such programs, there is one over riding factor Parents. The difference in teachers and curriculum I've seen between affluent "classrooms' and less affluent is minimal. There is one over riding factor. Parents. .

You can pour as much as you want into those little sponges, if it is not valued when they get home, all is for naught.

 

[320 Years of History]

Preschool is overrated, it's nothing more than a babysitting service

I suppose some of them are just that. I know that not all of them are only that.

• Our Philosophy and Goals
  
• Maret: Lower School Curriculum

I can only remember a handful of things from that period of my life.

• I learned French, and to this day, I remember one of the songs we sang in French class, Alouette. My own kids learned the same song in nursery school.
  
• I learned some acting basics and public speaking basics. Again, I still recall being the master of ceremonies for one of the school plays.
• I learned a little bit about how to read music and how to sing.
• I learned self-confidence.
• I learned how to read, write, count, add and subtract. I still use these skills. <winks>

The point isn't about the extent of mastery with the skills I first encountered in nursery school, only that being introduced to them seems like more than just babysitting. Having three kids who also attended nursery school and gained similar skills, I think nursery school even now is more than just a babysitting service.

Toddlers can and do learn quite a good deal in nursery school and kindergarten, but to be sure, not all such schools

attempt to make that happen. If a preschool is not successful at building early skills in young children, it's only because they aren't trying to do so. Heck, one doesn't even have to try especially hard to make that happen. Small children are essentially "human sponges" who are willing, able, curious and just dying to engage with pretty much anything that comes their way. There's not much to do other than present the information/skill in a safe and entertaining way, and the rest will take care of itself.

I would have to disagree. As one who saw his own children go through what is now considered "preschool" to now watching others put their children through such programs, there is one over riding factor Parents. The difference in teachers and curriculum I've seen between affluent "classrooms' and less affluent is minimal. There is one over riding factor. Parents. .

You can pour as much as you want into those little sponges, if it is not valued when they get home, all is for naught.

Well, I won't disagree with you or myself. There is no denying that a parent's involvement is a key success factor (or key failure factor if parental involvement is fleeting or nonexistent) in anything having to do with the development of a child. I know also that I needed the input from my children's teachers in order to know what skills and abilities I needed to reinforce when they got home from school. It was a team effort. I see the whole matter like this:

• institutional teaching + parental involvement --> optimum outcomes for the child
• parental involvement only --> may yield optimum outcomes but less likely to than the above approach
• institutional teaching only --> unlikely to yield better outcomes than the above approaches

I suspect the critical components of the curriculum doesn't differ among preschools, but clearly something is different. It's hard to say with surety what that thing(s) is, but it's plain to see that it's/they're there. The parental role could be it. I could be something far less "tangible," less obvious. It also may not be. I think there are a collection of things that must be present and "go right" to achieve the ideal (or close to ideal) outcome for young children. Boiling it down to "parents, teachers and curriculum" is perhaps an oversimplification. More likely, IMO, is that it is elements of those three major elements.

 

[Spinster]

Preschool is overrated, it's nothing more than a babysitting service

I suppose some of them are just that. I know that not all of them are only that.

• Our Philosophy and Goals
  
• Maret: Lower School Curriculum

I can only remember a handful of things from that period of my life.

• I learned French, and to this day, I remember one of the songs we sang in French class, Alouette. My own kids learned the same song in nursery school.
  
• I learned some acting basics and public speaking basics. Again, I still recall being the master of ceremonies for one of the school plays.
• I learned a little bit about how to read music and how to sing.
• I learned self-confidence.
• I learned how to read, write, count, add and subtract. I still use these skills. <winks>

The point isn't about the extent of mastery with the skills I first encountered in nursery school, only that being introduced to them seems like more than just babysitting. Having three kids who also attended nursery school and gained similar skills, I think nursery school even now is more than just a babysitting service.

Toddlers can and do learn quite a good deal in nursery school and kindergarten, but to be sure, not all such schools attempt to make that happen. If a preschool is not successful at building early skills in young children, it's only because they aren't trying to do so. Heck, one doesn't even have to try especially hard to make that happen. Small children are essentially "human sponges" who are willing, able, curious and just dying to engage with pretty much anything that comes their way. There's not much to do other than present the information/skill in a safe and entertaining way, and the rest will take care of itself.

That's meaningful! Really prepared you for life, didn't it?

 

[320 Years of History]

Preschool is overrated, it's nothing more than a babysitting service

I suppose some of them are just that. I know that not all of them are only that.

• Our Philosophy and Goals
  
• Maret: Lower School Curriculum

I can only remember a handful of things from that period of my life.

• I learned French, and to this day, I remember one of the songs we sang in French class, Alouette. My own kids learned the same song in nursery school.
  
• I learned some acting basics and public speaking basics. Again, I still recall being the master of ceremonies for one of the school plays.
• I learned a little bit about how to read music and how to sing.
• I learned self-confidence.
• I learned how to read, write, count, add and subtract. I still use these skills. <winks>

The point isn't about the extent of mastery with the skills I first encountered in nursery school, only that being introduced to them seems like more than just babysitting. Having three kids who also attended nursery school and gained similar skills, I think nursery school even now is more than just a babysitting service.

Toddlers can and do learn quite a good deal in nursery school and kindergarten, but to be sure, not all such schools attempt to make that happen. If a preschool is not successful at building early skills in young children, it's only because they aren't trying to do so. Heck, one doesn't even have to try especially hard to make that happen. Small children are essentially "human sponges" who are willing, able, curious and just dying to engage with pretty much anything that comes their way. There's not much to do other than present the information/skill in a safe and entertaining way, and the rest will take care of itself.

That's meaningful! Really prepared you for life, didn't it?

Well, it prepared me for the part of my life that soon followed nursery school. I suspect that was the immediate objective and in that, it succeeded.

 

[Spinster]

Preschool is overrated, it's nothing more than a babysitting service

I suppose some of them are just that. I know that not all of them are only that.

• Our Philosophy and Goals
  
• Maret: Lower School Curriculum

I can only remember a handful of things from that period of my life.

• I learned French, and to this day, I remember one of the songs we sang in French class, Alouette. My own kids learned the same song in nursery school.
  
• I learned some acting basics and public speaking basics. Again, I still recall being the master of ceremonies for one of the school plays.
• I learned a little bit about how to read music and how to sing.
• I learned self-confidence.
• I learned how to read, write, count, add and subtract. I still use these skills. <winks>

The point isn't about the extent of mastery with the skills I first encountered in nursery school, only that being introduced to them seems like more than just babysitting. Having three kids who also attended nursery school and gained similar skills, I think nursery school even now is more than just a babysitting service.

Toddlers can and do learn quite a good deal in nursery school and kindergarten, but to be sure, not all such schools attempt to make that happen. If a preschool is not successful at building early skills in young children, it's only because they aren't trying to do so. Heck, one doesn't even have to try especially hard to make that happen. Small children are essentially "human sponges" who are willing, able, curious and just dying to engage with pretty much anything that comes their way. There's not much to do other than present the information/skill in a safe and entertaining way, and the rest will take care of itself.

That's meaningful! Really prepared you for life, didn't it?

Well, it prepared me for the part of my life that soon followed nursery school. I suspect that was the immediate objective and in that, it succeeded.

Specifically, I was talking about the French song you learned. Many of us learned the same damn song, but it didn't equip us for life, did it? That's the problem I have with a lot of education is learning extraneous stuff unrelated to life skills. Of course, the French song may have been helpful if you went on to be a French major and worked as a translator, but we have software that does that function for us now.

 

[320 Years of History]

Specifically, I was talking about the French song you learned. Many of us learned the same damn song, but it didn't equip us for life, did it? That's the problem I have with a lot of education is learning extraneous stuff unrelated to life skills. Of course, the French song may have been helpful if you went on to be a French major and worked as a translator, but we have software that does that function for us now.

The French song, just by itself? Prepare me or anyone else "for life?" Almost certainly not, but even if so, the ways in which it did/does won't be immediately palpable, but that doesn't mean they had no role in preparing us for it somehow. Were you seriously posing that question?

I think the totality of the experiences I and others had in nursery school and kindergarten prepared us for something. Some of those skills -- reading, writing, adding, and subtracting -- are ones we use frequently for the rest of our lives, some -- for me, speaking French -- we use less than frequently.

Nonetheless, I think the central point of your first post in our discussion together, thus the point forms the basis for yours and my remarks, was essentially that preschool is a waste to the extent one expects more from it than basic babysitting. No matter how "life preparing" learning French, reading, writing, 'rithmetic, etc. are, it is undeniable that each of those skills develops a set of skills and abilities that directly and indirectly positively benefit the children who learn them in preschool; they are skills that if taught in preschool, demonstrate that more than just babysitting is going on in preschool.