The Politics of Outsourcing

[Oddball]

I showed you about the "multiplier effect" of a factory in the US. Manufacturing used to be 28% of the US economy, now its 12% and shrinking. You simply can't explain how manufacturing goods overseas "creates wealth" in the US. Think about the trade deficit and who has a surplus now and buys US debt? The US used to have the wealth, now its the manufacturing countries.
You have zero arguments that make any sense. So stick to name-calling, I won't even though it would be very easy.

What is the "multiplier effect" of a US factory? No such thing exists.
Agricultural used to be 90% of the U.S. economy. Now it is less than 10%. Guess what: we produce more agricultural goods now than ever. And we're richer.
So what about the trade surplus? We have run a trade deficit for almost all of our history, except post WW2. I don't see any ill effects so far. The U.S. is the wealthiest country in the world. Our economy dwarfs China's.
You make no argument. You point to disconnected 'facts" and then assume what you say is true. It isn't.
Similarly, if all US jobs are being sent overseas then how come our unemployment rate from 1992 on has been among the lowest on record? That was the very time outsourcing was increasing. Logic would dictate we would have permanently high unemployment, like France. We didnt.

We're "richer"????

Now THAT was fucking funny.

Delusional.

Yea, soybeans are better than cars and computers every single time. And the next time someone attacks us, we'll pop some corn in their direction.

When you can barbecue a car and/or computer to feed yourself, you let us all know.

Kook.

 

[NYcarbineer]

As many times as I've stated that outsourcing is good for the economy, bringing in more jobs than it loses, people on both sides just don't believe it. Here's Wm Cohen on the topic:
William Cohen: Obama and the Politics of Outsourcing - WSJ.com

The point he makes is that outsourcing creates jobs in the U.S. Labor is not a zero sum game, as many demogogues would like to make out.

The problem is that the other side has people like rdean, and his pathological ability to ignore facts.

I know. As often as it gets repeated you cannot get some people to believe that we have more jobs as a result of outsourcing not fewer.

So we have more jobs? lol, we need more jobs, because most households have 2 wage earners now to make it, where 1 was able to do it back in the 'old days',

as in back in the days before outsourcing.

 

[Revere]

The problem is that the other side has people like rdean, and his pathological ability to ignore facts.

I know. As often as it gets repeated you cannot get some people to believe that we have more jobs as a result of outsourcing not fewer.

So we have more jobs? lol, we need more jobs, because most households have 2 wage earners now to make it, where 1 was able to do it back in the 'old days',

as in back in the days before outsourcing.

No, before confiscatory taxes. You would not need a second income if it were not for your taxes.

 

[uscitizen]

I know. As often as it gets repeated you cannot get some people to believe that we have more jobs as a result of outsourcing not fewer.

So we have more jobs? lol, we need more jobs, because most households have 2 wage earners now to make it, where 1 was able to do it back in the 'old days',

as in back in the days before outsourcing.

No, before confiscatory taxes. You would not need a second income if it were not for your taxes.

A second income is needed to have 2 nice cars a boat, cycle, a BIG house, etc.
The lifestyle that our retailers promote to sell stuff to us.
If you do not have that stuff you are a nobody!

 

[NYcarbineer]

This thread, btw, is brought to you by the guy who thinks child labor should be made legal.

 

[Cal]

I'm sure the people who've lost their due to it being sent overseas jobs agree - outsourcing is good.

 

[uscitizen]

Why should we keep little Bobby from helping to support his family?

We would have less childhood obesity.

And we could train them to be good little workers for the rest of their lives.
Start training them young.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I know. As often as it gets repeated you cannot get some people to believe that we have more jobs as a result of outsourcing not fewer.

So we have more jobs? lol, we need more jobs, because most households have 2 wage earners now to make it, where 1 was able to do it back in the 'old days',

as in back in the days before outsourcing.

No, before confiscatory taxes. You would not need a second income if it were not for your taxes.

That's retarded. Taxes are lower than they've been in 50 years. Stop believing everything your rightwing puppetmasters in the media tell you.

 

[Oddball]

That's retarded. Taxes are lower than they've been in 50 years. Stop believing everything your rightwing puppetmasters in the media tell you.

When have taxes, other than the federal income tax, gone down?

When and where have FICA, Medicare, fuel, alcohol, tobacco, property, sales and other taxes been reduced?

Which taxes, besides the federal income tax, haven't increased?

I eagerly await your comprehensive list.

 

[uscitizen]

That's retarded. Taxes are lower than they've been in 50 years. Stop believing everything your rightwing puppetmasters in the media tell you.

When have taxes, other than the federal income tax, gone down?

When and where have FICA, Medicare, fuel, alcohol, tobacco, property, sales and other taxes been reduced?

Which taxes, besides the federal income tax, haven't increased?

I eagerly await your comprehensive list.

Blue 13th armoire zipper.

 

[Oddball]

Thank you, mascale.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

OUtsourcing is just taking division of labor to a higher level. For various reasons, it does benefit us to buy things overseas. In the old days, all the textiles were made at home, then people did weaving as a profession, (Like Silas Marner) then the weaving became automated, then we made more money by making weaving machines than we did by weaving cloth, and the making of cloth is done overseas, which used to be done on our own hearths.

We have gained every step of the way. Making weaving machines is a lot more brain intensive than making yarn, which is done by Guatemalan peasants. And we have new clothes on a regular basis. Full sets of changes for every day of the week. Back in the day we had two sets. and that was it.

There is no reason to compel folks to buy expensive goods when we could get cheaper. If we are obliged to pay extra for the same goods we could get cheaper elsewhere, that is a reduction in our standard of living.

If I make you pay $20 for something you can get for $2, then I have robbed you of $18.. You are poorer by that amount. Also, things that are more important that you can use that $18 to get, those sellers are poorer because you are too.

If outsourcing was such a bad idea, we would be living in mud huts of our own construction fletching our own arrows and making our own arrows. And trading salmon for Obsidian is bad, so we will have to make do with local sandstone or whatever for our arrows.

 

[uscitizen]

OUtsourcing is just taking division of labor to a higher level. For various reasons, it does benefit us to buy things overseas. In the old days, all the textiles were made at home, then people did weaving as a profession, (Like Silas Marner) then the weaving became automated, then we made more money by making weaving machines than we did by weaving cloth, and the making of cloth is done overseas, which used to be done on our own hearths.

We have gained every step of the way. Making weaving machines is a lot more brain intensive than making yarn, which is done by Guatemalan peasants. And we have new clothes on a regular basis. Full sets of changes for every day of the week. Back in the day we had two sets. and that was it.

There is no reason to compel folks to buy expensive goods when we could get cheaper. If we are obliged to pay extra for the same goods we could get cheaper elsewhere, that is a reduction in our standard of living.

If I make you pay $20 for something you can get for $2, then I have robbed you of $18.. You are poorer by that amount. Also, things that are more important that you can use that $18 to get, those sellers are poorer because you are too.

If outsourcing was such a bad idea, we would be living in mud huts of our own construction fletching our own arrows and making our own arrows. And trading salmon for Obsidian is bad, so we will have to make do with local sandstone or whatever for our arrows.

You might want to ponder on what you posted for a while there.

 

[Flopper]

As many times as I've stated that outsourcing is good for the economy, bringing in more jobs than it loses, people on both sides just don't believe it. Here's Wm Cohen on the topic:
William Cohen: Obama and the Politics of Outsourcing - WSJ.com

The point he makes is that outsourcing creates jobs in the U.S. Labor is not a zero sum game, as many demogogues would like to make out.

Would you care to explain how outsourcing create jobs in the US. I don't subscribe to the journal so I can't read all of your link.

 

[Oddball]

OUtsourcing is just taking division of labor to a higher level. For various reasons, it does benefit us to buy things overseas. In the old days, all the textiles were made at home, then people did weaving as a profession, (Like Silas Marner) then the weaving became automated, then we made more money by making weaving machines than we did by weaving cloth, and the making of cloth is done overseas, which used to be done on our own hearths.

We have gained every step of the way. Making weaving machines is a lot more brain intensive than making yarn, which is done by Guatemalan peasants. And we have new clothes on a regular basis. Full sets of changes for every day of the week. Back in the day we had two sets. and that was it.

There is no reason to compel folks to buy expensive goods when we could get cheaper. If we are obliged to pay extra for the same goods we could get cheaper elsewhere, that is a reduction in our standard of living.

If I make you pay $20 for something you can get for $2, then I have robbed you of $18.. You are poorer by that amount. Also, things that are more important that you can use that $18 to get, those sellers are poorer because you are too.

If outsourcing was such a bad idea, we would be living in mud huts of our own construction fletching our own arrows and making our own arrows. And trading salmon for Obsidian is bad, so we will have to make do with local sandstone or whatever for our arrows.

You might want to ponder on what you posted for a while there.

I'm sure he has pondered it...He also has the virtue of being right.

Why would you want to force Americans to buy things from people who haven't earned their business?

 

[The Rabbi]

How could anyone ignore that? It has been the main source of job growth for a couple of decades.
The selling of America.

So you complain when American companies send jobs overseas. You complain when foreign companies create jobs here.
Is there anything you don't complain about??

It is all about the selling of America.

And besides the guy that wrote the OP article is a Republican. Why should anyone believe him? Especially about economics and jobs.

Did he fortell the crash and looooong sloooow recovery?
Or was he one of those aww just a little adjustment, back on track in 6 months?

Geezus are you fucking stupid.
Cohen was DefSec under Clinton. Why should you believe him? Because he's right? Because he has facts?

 

[The Rabbi]

As many times as I've stated that outsourcing is good for the economy, bringing in more jobs than it loses, people on both sides just don't believe it. Here's Wm Cohen on the topic:
William Cohen: Obama and the Politics of Outsourcing - WSJ.com

The point he makes is that outsourcing creates jobs in the U.S. Labor is not a zero sum game, as many demogogues would like to make out.

Would you care to explain how outsourcing create jobs in the US. I don't subscribe to the journal so I can't read all of your link.

Basically he says that companies that outsourced jobs used the extra money they saved to create more jobs here. The jobs outsourced tended to be lower pay/lower skill and the ones created tended to be higher paid higher skilled. Which stands to reason because when companies develop a cost advantage they use it to increase market share and sales, necessitating more staff.
Of course understanding this would require thinking beyond Stage One, which many posters here are incapable of.

 

[uscitizen]

As many times as I've stated that outsourcing is good for the economy, bringing in more jobs than it loses, people on both sides just don't believe it. Here's Wm Cohen on the topic:
William Cohen: Obama and the Politics of Outsourcing - WSJ.com

The point he makes is that outsourcing creates jobs in the U.S. Labor is not a zero sum game, as many demogogues would like to make out.

Would you care to explain how outsourcing create jobs in the US. I don't subscribe to the journal so I can't read all of your link.

Basically he says that companies that outsourced jobs used the extra money they saved to create more jobs here. The jobs outsourced tended to be lower pay/lower skill and the ones created tended to be higher paid higher skilled. Which stands to reason because when companies develop a cost advantage they use it to increase market share and sales, necessitating more staff.
Of course understanding this would require thinking beyond Stage One, which many posters here are incapable of.

Yes the incapable of understanding posters are shining out bright

 

[The Rabbi]

Would you care to explain how outsourcing create jobs in the US. I don't subscribe to the journal so I can't read all of your link.

Basically he says that companies that outsourced jobs used the extra money they saved to create more jobs here. The jobs outsourced tended to be lower pay/lower skill and the ones created tended to be higher paid higher skilled. Which stands to reason because when companies develop a cost advantage they use it to increase market share and sales, necessitating more staff.
Of course understanding this would require thinking beyond Stage One, which many posters here are incapable of.

Yes the incapable of understanding posters are shining out bright

You're here, aren't you?

 

[Flopper]

As many times as I've stated that outsourcing is good for the economy, bringing in more jobs than it loses, people on both sides just don't believe it. Here's Wm Cohen on the topic:
William Cohen: Obama and the Politics of Outsourcing - WSJ.com

The point he makes is that outsourcing creates jobs in the U.S. Labor is not a zero sum game, as many demogogues would like to make out.

Would you care to explain how outsourcing create jobs in the US. I don't subscribe to the journal so I can't read all of your link.

Basically he says that companies that outsourced jobs used the extra money they saved to create more jobs here. The jobs outsourced tended to be lower pay/lower skill and the ones created tended to be higher paid higher skilled. Which stands to reason because when companies develop a cost advantage they use it to increase market share and sales, necessitating more staff.
Of course understanding this would require thinking beyond Stage One, which many posters here are incapable of.

That's an interesting theory and there may be some truth in it. But my first thought is that if I can increase my profits by outsourcing my subcomponent manufacturing, then I will outsource my entire manufacturing operation, then my technical support center and engineering and design group. I am left with only marketing, distribution, and other costs needed put my product in stores.

And what do I do with my profits? I do exactly the same thing again and again with other products. The idea that business will take profits from outsourcing and invest in the activities that create jobs in the US is dicey at best.