The Politics of Outsourcing

[FA_Q2]

Except those same workers, like the ag workers of yore, find other jobs. This is why the unemployment rate during the height of outsourcing was in the 5% range.

This is actually a point that needs to be driven home. Unemployment is a DIRECT reflection on the economy at large. This is why I find it frustrating at all the idiots that complain about automation taking jobs. Yes, you lose floor jobs when things become automated but for every job that closes another opens up. If there is money in the economy and resources for the money to be spent on to multiply it WILL happen. As jobs are lost people are hired back at other venues because the people (a RESOURCE) are available and the cash is present. It is the economy that truly determines the end result unemployment, not outsourcing OR automation.

 

[loosecannon]

And how many jobs were created as a result? With 5% unemployment it would have been a bunch.

correlation doesn't = causation.

Yup. Both ways. Outsourcing doesn't cause unemployment either.

except in the case of outsourcing there is a direct correlation between jobs outsourced and unemployment.

 

[loosecannon]

Except those same workers, like the ag workers of yore, find other jobs. This is why the unemployment rate during the height of outsourcing was in the 5% range.

This is actually a point that needs to be driven home. Unemployment is a DIRECT reflection on the economy at large. This is why I find it frustrating at all the idiots that complain about automation taking jobs. Yes, you lose floor jobs when things become automated but for every job that closes another opens up. If there is money in the economy and resources for the money to be spent on to multiply it WILL happen. As jobs are lost people are hired back at other venues because the people (a RESOURCE) are available and the cash is present. It is the economy that truly determines the end result unemployment, not outsourcing OR automation.

Automation causes a direct reduction in the need for employees in manufacturing and anything else that is automated. That much is obvious.

That those jobs are replaced by other jobs, or jobs of equal pay is anything BUT obvious. Esp in a globalized world in which labor is a commodity approaching complete fungibility. Labor loses bargaining power as demand for labor is offset by automation. New jobs created have tended to increasingly be jobs that can't be automated. Service sector jobs. Jobs that are inherently reaping lower wages because they don't conform as well to economy of scale profitibility advantages.

All of which ignores the essential issue: While net employment may increase due to automation and globalization, WHERE are those jobs located? And perhaps of much more significance: if wages are driven down where will the demand for those new services and products come from?

The REAL equation of merit is what % of economic activity translates into middle class incomes and full employment. Because that is the engine of demand.

And demand drives the economy creating more jobs etc, not automation. Automation only makes existing jobs more efficient at achieving production.

 

[The Rabbi]

It is an absolutely insane concept that outsourcing crates jobs here. That is plain bullshit. .

Other than it is a proven fact, you mean?

 

[The Rabbi]

correlation doesn't = causation.

Yup. Both ways. Outsourcing doesn't cause unemployment either.

except in the case of outsourcing there is a direct correlation between jobs outsourced and unemployment.

Except that during the Clinton and Bush years of outsourcing unemployment reached record lows. How is that a correlation of anything, other than the thesis that outsourcing increases employment?

 

[R.C. Christian]

As many times as I've stated that outsourcing is good for the economy, bringing in more jobs than it loses, people on both sides just don't believe it. Here's Wm Cohen on the topic:
William Cohen: Obama and the Politics of Outsourcing - WSJ.com

The point he makes is that outsourcing creates jobs in the U.S. Labor is not a zero sum game, as many demogogues would like to make out.

Says the person who has never lost his job to some 3rd world scumbag.

 

[The Rabbi]

As many times as I've stated that outsourcing is good for the economy, bringing in more jobs than it loses, people on both sides just don't believe it. Here's Wm Cohen on the topic:
William Cohen: Obama and the Politics of Outsourcing - WSJ.com

The point he makes is that outsourcing creates jobs in the U.S. Labor is not a zero sum game, as many demogogues would like to make out.

Says the person who has never lost his job to some 3rd world scumbag.

True.
If you have lost your job to a third world scumbag then you have bigger problems than being unemployed.

 

[R.C. Christian]

As many times as I've stated that outsourcing is good for the economy, bringing in more jobs than it loses, people on both sides just don't believe it. Here's Wm Cohen on the topic:
William Cohen: Obama and the Politics of Outsourcing - WSJ.com

The point he makes is that outsourcing creates jobs in the U.S. Labor is not a zero sum game, as many demogogues would like to make out.

Says the person who has never lost his job to some 3rd world scumbag.

True.
If you have lost your job to a third world scumbag then you have bigger problems than being unemployed.

Yes, those problems include being well educated but unable to acquire another IT job in your state. because the U.S. visa handouts were OWNED by degenerate Indian firms who showed up a year or 2, and then, of course, pumped out a few extra American citizens per family along the way. If you were a caucasian IT worker, you were priced out of the market and left to rot along with your family. This is happening, yet again, across the street and will soon again happen here. You know they even let the poor american workers train their replacements in New Dehli ou whatever god forsaken country for a few weeks so they could stay out of the employment lines. How thoughtful.

You need a big dose of STFU or at least come back a few years from now after patriots fix this mess you seem to enjoy with a HARD bloody reboot.

 

[The Rabbi]

Says the person who has never lost his job to some 3rd world scumbag.

True.
If you have lost your job to a third world scumbag then you have bigger problems than being unemployed.

Yes, those problems include being well educated but unable to acquire another IT job in your state. because the U.S. visa handouts were OWNED by degenerate Indian firms who showed up a year or 2, and then, of course, pumped out a few extra American citizens per family along the way. If you were a caucasian IT worker, you were priced out of the market and left to rot along with your family. This is happening, yet again, across the street and will soon again happen here. You know they even let the poor american workers train their replacements in New Dehli ou whatever god forsaken country for a few weeks so they could stay out of the employment lines. How thoughtful.

You need a big dose of STFU or at least come back a few years from now after patriots fix this mess you seem to enjoy with a HARD bloody reboot.

It includes having inferior job skills. Ever hear of "competition"?

 

[R.C. Christian]

True.
If you have lost your job to a third world scumbag then you have bigger problems than being unemployed.

Yes, those problems include being well educated but unable to acquire another IT job in your state. because the U.S. visa handouts were OWNED by degenerate Indian firms who showed up a year or 2, and then, of course, pumped out a few extra American citizens per family along the way. If you were a caucasian IT worker, you were priced out of the market and left to rot along with your family. This is happening, yet again, across the street and will soon again happen here. You know they even let the poor american workers train their replacements in New Dehli ou whatever god forsaken country for a few weeks so they could stay out of the employment lines. How thoughtful.

You need a big dose of STFU or at least come back a few years from now after patriots fix this mess you seem to enjoy with a HARD bloody reboot.

It includes having inferior job skills. Ever hear of "competition"?

You arrogant jerk, lol. You seriously cannot be this out of touch with reality? Is your ivory tower over by the grand ole opery so high that you've now lost touch with the people on the ground? Credentials, have little to do with it. Half these maggots can't touch my experience, knowledge, credentials, education much less speak English to the customer in an accent he can understand. Don't you DARE talk down to me about "competition" They pay these people much less to do the job and then they leave. No long term benefits, none of that. Simple economics. No competition except for the value you put on a 3rd world slave. Utterly, vile at the core this way of business. Maybe if we had more cake the reality would be more palatable.

 

[uscitizen]

Do you really think the Rab deals in reality???

Remember he is a right winger and thought Bush was the best thing thing since sliced bread.

 

[The Rabbi]

Yes, those problems include being well educated but unable to acquire another IT job in your state. because the U.S. visa handouts were OWNED by degenerate Indian firms who showed up a year or 2, and then, of course, pumped out a few extra American citizens per family along the way. If you were a caucasian IT worker, you were priced out of the market and left to rot along with your family. This is happening, yet again, across the street and will soon again happen here. You know they even let the poor american workers train their replacements in New Dehli ou whatever god forsaken country for a few weeks so they could stay out of the employment lines. How thoughtful.

You need a big dose of STFU or at least come back a few years from now after patriots fix this mess you seem to enjoy with a HARD bloody reboot.

It includes having inferior job skills. Ever hear of "competition"?

You arrogant jerk, lol. You seriously cannot be this out of touch with reality? Is your ivory tower over by the grand ole opery so high that you've now lost touch with the people on the ground? Credentials, have little to do with it. Half these maggots can't touch my experience, knowledge, credentials, education much less speak English to the customer in an accent he can understand. Don't you DARE talk down to me about "competition" They pay these people much less to do the job and then they leave. No long term benefits, none of that. Simple economics. No competition except for the value you put on a 3rd world slave. Utterly, vile at the core this way of business. Maybe if we had more cake the reality would be more palatable.

You obviously do not have competitive job skills such that it is worth it for anyone to pay you more money than a competing employee from India. You probably need to review what you're doing wrong. Maybe go back to school.

 

[uscitizen]

The Rabbi has a government job?

 

[The Rabbi]

The Rabbi has a government job?

Well, kind of in a way.....

 

[Flopper]

Currently our tax laws encourage outsourcing jobs overseas. Other countries from India to Ghana to Indonesia offer incentives to bring jobs to their countries. We should change our tax code to offer tax incentives to hire here at home and stop encouraging outsourcing to other countries.

Over the long haul, we need to make our workers more productive through education and technology but that is a lot easier said than done.

 

[FA_Q2]

It is an absolutely insane concept that outsourcing crates jobs here. That is plain bullshit. .

Other than it is a proven fact, you mean?

Except for the fact that it is not proven whatsoever. You have a nice article by one man but that means little in the grand scheme of things. Fact is that it is a simple logic issue and I can tell you that sending jobs overseas and claiming that it somehow increases jobs here makes ZERO sense. As I said before, unemployment actually is impacted very little by that activity anyway. That is why the unemployment rate was so low, the ECONOMY was growing and that is what caused unemployment to shrink.

 

[mdn2000]

It is an absolutely insane concept that outsourcing crates jobs here. That is plain bullshit. .

Other than it is a proven fact, you mean?

Except for the fact that it is not proven whatsoever. You have a nice article by one man but that means little in the grand scheme of things. Fact is that it is a simple logic issue and I can tell you that sending jobs overseas and claiming that it somehow increases jobs here makes ZERO sense. As I said before, unemployment actually is impacted very little by that activity anyway. That is why the unemployment rate was so low, the ECONOMY was growing and that is what caused unemployment to shrink.

Actually outsourcing creates jobs for politicians and special interest groups. It makes corporations and the people who run them rich, who then pay Al Gore and Bill Clinton millions of dollars for speeches, the pay-off.

That money then trickles down to us, in the form of higher taxes to employ more bureaucrats who can tell us we need a better education if we wish to compete.

Shipping industry is growing, Cargo container industry has quadrupled in size.

Those are good jobs for at least a couple thousand jobs, these are industries growing jobs.

 

[The Rabbi]

It is an absolutely insane concept that outsourcing crates jobs here. That is plain bullshit. .

Other than it is a proven fact, you mean?

Except for the fact that it is not proven whatsoever. You have a nice article by one man but that means little in the grand scheme of things. Fact is that it is a simple logic issue and I can tell you that sending jobs overseas and claiming that it somehow increases jobs here makes ZERO sense. As I said before, unemployment actually is impacted very little by that activity anyway. That is why the unemployment rate was so low, the ECONOMY was growing and that is what caused unemployment to shrink.

How many articles would prove the point? Two? Five? A hundred?
All it takes to prove something is one article with facts. If you have anything to refute it, go right ahead and post.
Fact is, it is logical that even though allegedly millions of jobs were outsourced during the 1990s and 2000's the unemployment rate reached the loweest sustained rate I have seen in my lifetime.

As to your last statement, are you maintaining that outsourcing affects net jobs but does not affect unemployment? That's crazy talk.

 

[kyzr]

Other than it is a proven fact, you mean?

Except for the fact that it is not proven whatsoever. You have a nice article by one man but that means little in the grand scheme of things. Fact is that it is a simple logic issue and I can tell you that sending jobs overseas and claiming that it somehow increases jobs here makes ZERO sense. As I said before, unemployment actually is impacted very little by that activity anyway. That is why the unemployment rate was so low, the ECONOMY was growing and that is what caused unemployment to shrink.

How many articles would prove the point? Two? Five? A hundred?
All it takes to prove something is one article with facts. If you have anything to refute it, go right ahead and post.
Fact is, it is logical that even though allegedly millions of jobs were outsourced during the 1990s and 2000's the unemployment rate reached the loweest sustained rate I have seen in my lifetime.

As to your last statement, are you maintaining that outsourcing affects net jobs but does not affect unemployment? That's crazy talk.

Saying that outsourcing creates jobs (take the American Jobs Creation Act as an example) make as much economic sense as saying that putting 31m uninsured in the UHC system will lower medical expenses.
Outsourcing jobs is the "root cause" of the poor economy. If you can't grasp that "sales" actually selling imported products, only hurts the economy. The trade deficit, weak dollar, and store closings should give you a hint. I walked a mall today where about 1/4 of the stores, which were open last year, are now closed. People have no money to shop, get a clue. Shoppers need jobs before they can shop.

 

[The Rabbi]

Except for the fact that it is not proven whatsoever. You have a nice article by one man but that means little in the grand scheme of things. Fact is that it is a simple logic issue and I can tell you that sending jobs overseas and claiming that it somehow increases jobs here makes ZERO sense. As I said before, unemployment actually is impacted very little by that activity anyway. That is why the unemployment rate was so low, the ECONOMY was growing and that is what caused unemployment to shrink.

How many articles would prove the point? Two? Five? A hundred?
All it takes to prove something is one article with facts. If you have anything to refute it, go right ahead and post.
Fact is, it is logical that even though allegedly millions of jobs were outsourced during the 1990s and 2000's the unemployment rate reached the loweest sustained rate I have seen in my lifetime.

As to your last statement, are you maintaining that outsourcing affects net jobs but does not affect unemployment? That's crazy talk.

Saying that outsourcing creates jobs (take the American Jobs Creation Act as an example) make as much economic sense as saying that putting 31m uninsured in the UHC system will lower medical expenses.
Outsourcing jobs is the "root cause" of the poor economy. If you can't grasp that "sales" actually selling imported products, only hurts the economy. The trade deficit, weak dollar, and store closings should give you a hint. I walked a mall today where about 1/4 of the stores, which were open last year, are now closed. People have no money to shop, get a clue. Shoppers need jobs before they can shop.

Uh, people benefit when financial transactions occur. Are you saying that no American benefits when a Chinese good is sold here? How about, Apple imports cheap computer chips from Taiwan. Then it incorporates them into an IPhone. It sells the iPhone for a 50% profit. Does no American benefit from that transaction? Or do all Americans benefit?
As for your shuttered malls, tell me that outsourcing has been going on for 2 years and I'll tell you about a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.