The Politics of Outsourcing

[uscitizen]

How many articles would prove the point? Two? Five? A hundred?
All it takes to prove something is one article with facts. If you have anything to refute it, go right ahead and post.
Fact is, it is logical that even though allegedly millions of jobs were outsourced during the 1990s and 2000's the unemployment rate reached the loweest sustained rate I have seen in my lifetime.

As to your last statement, are you maintaining that outsourcing affects net jobs but does not affect unemployment? That's crazy talk.

Saying that outsourcing creates jobs (take the American Jobs Creation Act as an example) make as much economic sense as saying that putting 31m uninsured in the UHC system will lower medical expenses.
Outsourcing jobs is the "root cause" of the poor economy. If you can't grasp that "sales" actually selling imported products, only hurts the economy. The trade deficit, weak dollar, and store closings should give you a hint. I walked a mall today where about 1/4 of the stores, which were open last year, are now closed. People have no money to shop, get a clue. Shoppers need jobs before they can shop.

Uh, people benefit when financial transactions occur. Are you saying that no American benefits when a Chinese good is sold here? How about, Apple imports cheap computer chips from Taiwan. Then it incorporates them into an IPhone. It sells the iPhone for a 50% profit. Does no American benefit from that transaction? Or do all Americans benefit?
As for your shuttered malls, tell me that outsourcing has been going on for 2 years and I'll tell you about a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

Umm the iPhones are built entirely in China I believe.

 

[The Rabbi]

Saying that outsourcing creates jobs (take the American Jobs Creation Act as an example) make as much economic sense as saying that putting 31m uninsured in the UHC system will lower medical expenses.
Outsourcing jobs is the "root cause" of the poor economy. If you can't grasp that "sales" actually selling imported products, only hurts the economy. The trade deficit, weak dollar, and store closings should give you a hint. I walked a mall today where about 1/4 of the stores, which were open last year, are now closed. People have no money to shop, get a clue. Shoppers need jobs before they can shop.

Uh, people benefit when financial transactions occur. Are you saying that no American benefits when a Chinese good is sold here? How about, Apple imports cheap computer chips from Taiwan. Then it incorporates them into an IPhone. It sells the iPhone for a 50% profit. Does no American benefit from that transaction? Or do all Americans benefit?
As for your shuttered malls, tell me that outsourcing has been going on for 2 years and I'll tell you about a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

Umm the iPhones are built entirely in China I believe.

Great. Doesn't change the fact that Apple makes 50% on every iPhone they sell. Tell me how that hurts workers in the U.S. again?

 

[uscitizen]

Uh, people benefit when financial transactions occur. Are you saying that no American benefits when a Chinese good is sold here? How about, Apple imports cheap computer chips from Taiwan. Then it incorporates them into an IPhone. It sells the iPhone for a 50% profit. Does no American benefit from that transaction? Or do all Americans benefit?
As for your shuttered malls, tell me that outsourcing has been going on for 2 years and I'll tell you about a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

Umm the iPhones are built entirely in China I believe.

Great. Doesn't change the fact that Apple makes 50% on every iPhone they sell. Tell me how that hurts workers in the U.S. again?

Umm "Apple" Is not a worker. Apple is a corporation.
Workers in the US are paid nothing for the Chinese building the iPhone.
consider yourself told.

 

[The Rabbi]

Umm the iPhones are built entirely in China I believe.

Great. Doesn't change the fact that Apple makes 50% on every iPhone they sell. Tell me how that hurts workers in the U.S. again?

Umm "Apple" Is not a worker. Apple is a corporation.
Workers in the US are paid nothing for the Chinese building the iPhone.
consider yourself told.

Um, Apple employs 34,000 full time workers and 2500 contract employees. Tell me how all of them are Chinese nationals.
You know, get owned in every one of these discussions because your knowledge of the facts is just abysmal. Fortunately that makes you an easy target.

 

[uscitizen]

Great. Doesn't change the fact that Apple makes 50% on every iPhone they sell. Tell me how that hurts workers in the U.S. again?

Umm "Apple" Is not a worker. Apple is a corporation.
Workers in the US are paid nothing for the Chinese building the iPhone.
consider yourself told.

Um, Apple employs 34,000 full time workers and 2500 contract employees. Tell me how all of them are Chinese nationals.
You know, get owned in every one of these discussions because your knowledge of the facts is just abysmal. Fortunately that makes you an easy target.

You really cannot see yourself can you?

 

[The Rabbi]

Umm "Apple" Is not a worker. Apple is a corporation.
Workers in the US are paid nothing for the Chinese building the iPhone.
consider yourself told.

Um, Apple employs 34,000 full time workers and 2500 contract employees. Tell me how all of them are Chinese nationals.
You know, get owned in every one of these discussions because your knowledge of the facts is just abysmal. Fortunately that makes you an easy target.

You really cannot see yourself can you?

Every time I look in the mirror.
Can't refute the facts, I guess. The facts are as stated: Outsourcing is a net benefit to society. Yes, jobs are lost but others are created and ultimately everyone ends up better.
The Left just can't stand facts.

 

[uscitizen]

Um, Apple employs 34,000 full time workers and 2500 contract employees. Tell me how all of them are Chinese nationals.
You know, get owned in every one of these discussions because your knowledge of the facts is just abysmal. Fortunately that makes you an easy target.

You really cannot see yourself can you?

Every time I look in the mirror.
Can't refute the facts, I guess. The facts are as stated: Outsourcing is a net benefit to society. Yes, jobs are lost but others are created and ultimately everyone ends up better.
The Left just can't stand facts.

Ohh I figured you were one of those who had no personal reflection.

 

[Cal]

Why don't we just ask the folks who've lost their job to india how well outsourcing worked for them? It would save all the hassle.

 

[Annie]

You really cannot see yourself can you?

Every time I look in the mirror.
Can't refute the facts, I guess. The facts are as stated: Outsourcing is a net benefit to society. Yes, jobs are lost but others are created and ultimately everyone ends up better.
The Left just can't stand facts.

Ohh I figured you were one of those who had no personal reflection.

So witches aren't enough, now conservatives are vampires?

 

[Londoner]

Here is all you need to know.

1940s-1970s: rises in worker productivity resulted in corresponding rises in wages and benefits.

**This meant that the middle class had actual money to drive consumption and sustain the economy**

[Enter Ronald Reagan, who was paid by big business to create cheaper operating conditions... including cheaper labor...including getting rid of the expensive wage-&-benefit burden of the entitlement fed middle class]

1980-2008: Innovation leads to a massive rise in worker productivity. Profits soar...

...but wages stay the same

This leads to two consequences.

• Business realizes historic profits. They pocket the extra money that used to go to the middle class.
  
• The middle class requires more and more credit to consume. And so begins a tragic 30 year credit orgy which ended when the middle class leveraged their last remaining asset: their homes.

What did business do with extra money made by cutting the middle class out of the loop?

They loaned the money back to the middle class at a high rate. Boom! The credit economy is born!

[psst: if the Tea Party understood this, there would be a revolution]

AGAIN. Rather than raise wages in concert with the rise in productivity, business reduced middle class compensation and proceeded to loan them the money necessary for consumption and survival.


Eventually, as you would expect, the middle class went bankrupt.

You might ask why they needed to consume so much?

Answer: look what happens to the economy when the middle class can't consume. The economy dies. Tragedy: the economy is so sick that it requires unsustainable levels of debt to stay afloat. Why do you think we all receive 2 credit card offers a week: because pushing debt on the middle class is how the Reagan Revolution compensated for the fact that the money never trickled down into the hands of consumers. The suppliers realized dynastic wealth from fabricated (credit based) demand. When the deal went south, they got bailed out, while the consumers were foreclosed on)

(problem is: the suppliers now own Washington and the media. Therefore, they can destroy any politician or political movement that wants to repair the flaw. If you try to move against one of their monopolies, they stir-up some Tea Party rage against manufactured grandma killers)

But I digress. You must understand the original point: given that the wealthy were receiving a disproportionate share of the total pie, the middle class and the consumption economy had to be sustained with credit. This is not only a structural flaw; it's a death blow. The game is over. America made a small group of people wealthy beyond their wildest dreams, while choking the goose that laid the golden egg: the great postwar middle class who literally sustained the economy through consumption.

America: you got punk'd by a "B" rate actor. The future has been destroyed. The country has been looted beyond repair.

 

[FA_Q2]

(hate, anger, blah, blah, blah, whine, complain, anger, scream, blah, blah)

Seriously, NO ONE WAS FORCED TO GET DEBT. That is a damn fact. The middleclass in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM was forced into the stupid debt that people are currently experiencing. That is the fault of each and every person that signed that paper and got the ten credit cards in their wallet. There are arguments for the disproportionate spread of wealth but that does not give people a pass for being morons. All this bullshit about how people were forced to buy that 52" LCD flat panel television even though they could not afford it is bullshit. By FAR, the largest problem with America today is the inability for people to stand up and take a little personal accountability for their own damn actions. If people were to do that ONE simple thing many of the problems that we face today would not be occurring because people would not have gotten into these situations in the first place. We need to stop being the whiney people we are and become the adults that we need to be.

/rant

 

[The Rabbi]

Why don't we just ask the folks who've lost their job to india how well outsourcing worked for them? It would save all the hassle.

Why don't we ask all the many more people who owe their jobs to outsourcing how it's working out for them?

 

[The Rabbi]

I love how the Left can only make emotional appeals on this.
"Lets ask those unemployed >whine>" Like the Left gives a shit about the unemployed to begin with. If they truly did, they wouldn't support unions and the minimum wage, two of the greatest job killers we've known.

 

[chanel]

(hate, anger, blah, blah, blah, whine, complain, anger, scream, blah, blah)

Seriously, NO ONE WAS FORCED TO GET DEBT. That is a damn fact. The middleclass in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM was forced into the stupid debt that people are currently experiencing. That is the fault of each and every person that signed that paper and got the ten credit cards in their wallet. There are arguments for the disproportionate spread of wealth but that does not give people a pass for being morons. All this bullshit about how people were forced to buy that 52" LCD flat panel television even though they could not afford it is bullshit. By FAR, the largest problem with America today is the inability for people to stand up and take a little personal accountability for their own damn actions. If people were to do that ONE simple thing many of the problems that we face today would not be occurring because people would not have gotten into these situations in the first place. We need to stop being the whiney people we are and become the adults that we need to be.

/rant

I have been saying that my entire adult life. How many people do you know that live paycheck to paycheck, or way beyond their means? I know people who do that no matter how much or little or they make.

One of my best friends works for a major bank, and years ago we would talk about the multi-million dollar homes that were being built along the shore. She said then "Remember the dot.com bubble and people were jumping off buildings? We are going to see that with the housing bubble in a few years". Truer words?

I would never judge someone who was "house poor" or preferred expensive vacations to saving for their kids' college. It is their perogative if they prefer living on the edge. But NOW? We are expected to bail these people out? We are supposed to help with their mortgages, their kids' tuition, their health insurance? Bullshit. If you can't afford your home, downsize. And we all survived watching 26 inch TVs. It's not the end of the world.

 

[midcan5]

Please don't post links to sources that require paid subscriptions. The WSJ is a corporate propaganda medium for the corporatist in America. Worship at whatever church you like, but give an argument and links that can be read and analyzed.


"Capitalism leads to dole queues, the scramble for markets, and war. Collectivism leads to concentration camps, leader-worship and war. There is no way out of this unless a planned economy can be somehow combined with freedom of the intellect, which can only happen if the concept of right and wrong can be restored." George Orwell

 

[Oddball]

Please don't post links to sources that require paid subscriptions. The WSJ is a corporate propaganda medium for the corporatist in America. Worship at whatever church you like, but give an argument and links that can be read and analyzed.


"Capitalism leads to dole queues, the scramble for markets, and war. Collectivism leads to concentration camps, leader-worship and war. There is no way out of this unless a planned economy can be somehow combined with freedom of the intellect, which can only happen if the concept of right and wrong can be restored." George Orwell

Yes...Please link to tomes rife with socialist/progressive dreck listed on Amazon and dig up a favorable historical quote, so it makes you look all smart-n-stuff.

 

[Charles_Main]

Out sourcing is not about politics, it is about profitability.

 

[kyzr]

Out sourcing is not about politics, it is about profitability.

Rabbi's argument that outsourcing creates jobs is like saying that raising taxes on the wealthy actually makes them wealthier....

 

[The Rabbi]

Out sourcing is not about politics, it is about profitability.

Rabbi's argument that outsourcing creates jobs is like saying that raising taxes on the wealthy actually makes them wealthier....

Actually it's more like if you lower taxes on high income earners (don't confuse wealth with income) then they'll have more incentive to work harder and invest.
Which is true.

 

[uscitizen]

Out sourcing is not about politics, it is about profitability.

Rabbi's argument that outsourcing creates jobs is like saying that raising taxes on the wealthy actually makes them wealthier....

Actually it's more like if you lower taxes on high income earners (don't confuse wealth with income) then they'll have more incentive to work harder and invest.
Which is true.

Invest like they did for the last decade?
I guess it seemed a good idea at the time....