Zone1 The Omnipotence of God

[LibertyKid]

Why would any Omnipotent God have to have Himself incarnated as His own Son, just to have that incarnate Son be tortured to death on a cross?

This truly is the question.
And one where the answer may always be but theory, speculation, and a good guess, thus why we have theologians.

But IMO, the answer has to do with the idea of "Sin". And let's not worry about the little sins like lying, stealing, etc. And I'll go back to the story of Adam and Eve.
IMO, Adam and Eve is allegorical and metaphorical. Prior to "Sin" their existence with God would be described as Holy where the presence of God and his creation co-existed.

The representation of the first sin is separation between God and his creation. Why Adam and Eve left the garden and were now separated, which bring us to where we are today.

But the question is why did this separation have to occur in the first place? Why couldn't god just forgive this sin and start over? Perhaps the answer lies in the metaphysical and or spiritual world where there are laws and or rules in place that we can't begin to explain or understand. This of course makes your question absolutely reasonable. The short answer, the sacrifice on the Cross removes the consequence of sin between our spiritual/metaphysical self and that of God.

What the actual sacrifice did behind the veil (figuratively speaking) is repair that gap and reopened that gap for Man to one day rejoin God. What are the details, hell if I know or anyone else. But, if correct, we would find out.

 

[onefour1]

there in fact is not that choice - in the heavens as is their way of life.

you do not understand - there is a level above the duality of good vs evil - a state of being they live by in the heavens ... you only prove your level by not realizing their goal - to be accomplish. or perish.

There is a reason that God gives us our free will here on earth and only those who love and follow after him of their own free will will gain access to the kingdom of heaven. It is critical that God gives us free will so that we, of our own free will and choice, will choose to be good beings. God is not raising robots. He brings those into his kingdom who are more than willing to live a celestial law of heaven. Others will be placed in a kingdom that has a lesser law which they are willing to obey. If god were to force anyone to obey, then it would not be by their own will and they would not be good beings in and of themselves. We know by scripture that Lucifer was obedient to the will of God until he chose of his own free will to rebel against God and was cast out of heaven with all those who bought into his rebellion. Free will is an eternal principle. One cannot truly become a good being without it. Those in this life who desire and are willing to follow God's celestial law and repent of their sins will be those who find entrance into his kingdom. I think it is pretty plain and obvious that God wishes to allow only those who use their free will to choose good to enter his kingdom. God wants us to become good beings in and our own free will and choice. True, that once you are there, you are required to live by his law, but God tries and tests us here on this earth to determine who is willing and who is not willing to abide by his law. It is they who believe in the law and trust God and who repent of their sins and seek his forgiveness who gain entrance. Those who snuff their nose at his law and are determined to not live by it will not be allowed entrance.

God is a truly good being because he chooses to be so. Nobody forces God to be a good being. He is true blue good in and of himself. For this reason, he chooses to only do good continually and never strays from doing what is right. I can't even imagine a God who does not have control and free will over his own actions.

 

[BackAgain]

It is a matter of satisfying the demands of justice. If no unclean thing can enter the kingdom of heaven, then it is unjust to allow the sinner back into heaven. God overcomes this the demands of justice by creating another unjust situation that must be dealt with according to the demands of justice. God the Father being an immortal being cannot lay down his life because of his immortality. So he sends his firstborn son who is a spirit to this earth to be born with a body that can die. While on the earth, Jesus live a perfectly sinless life. Yet he becomes subject to suffering for the sins of all mankind. He is able to do this because he is part God. He is able to die because he is part mortal. So Jesus goes through the greatest of all injustices ever perpetrated on this earth. His suffering for the sins of all mankind is not a just act upon one who is sinless. He is a lamb without blemish and spot. Because of his unjust sufferings and because he was a sinless perfect being, the unjust suffer that he suffers, according to justice, must be recompensed. The recompense is according to justice to right a wrong that perpetrated upon him. The recompense must cover the extent to which he suffered. What is his recompense? He is granted the right to forgive anyone who repents of his sins and turns unto God. If a man sacrifices his sins by repenting, Jesus has the right, according to his just recompense to forgive that man. It is Jesus' just recompense to have the power to redeem the repentant soul. Jesus recompense along with mankind's repentance, according to justice, can overcome the demands of justice of keeping the sinner out of heaven. The law of justice has been satisfied and the law of mercy comes into effect.

The question then arises, Why couldn't God simply forgive the sinner Himself without all the pain and suffering? The answer is because that would violate justice and God will not violate justice. However, he can allow justice to offset itself. Jesus, who did no sin was a perfect being who after suffering the sins of all mankind and dying for our cause deserved a just recompense for what he went through and to the extent of what he went through. Mankind would still need to change his ways and repent, but the justice for Jesus offset the justice of keeping man out of heaven if mankind would only repent and forsake his sins. Thus mercy claims the truly penitent and God is justified in saving his children. Jesus' atonement overcame original sin and also individual sin of those who truly repent. Thus it is the just for the unjust as spoken of in this verse:

1 Peter 3:18
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

God can do anything He pleases. He can forgive who ever He wishes to forgive. He wouldn’t need to sacrifice His own corporeal Son as a precondition of doing so.

It makes no sense.

 

[BreezeWood]

There is a reason that God gives us our free will here on earth and only those who love and follow after him of their own free will will gain access to the kingdom of heaven.

of1, free will is how one triumphs over evil - some very few ... accomplish the goal.

when those awful desert religions are finally put to rest - for being evil - more and more will triumph till all are free ... servitude, denial, false commandments, on and on have had their day, time for them to disappear. forever.

 

[onefour1]

God can do anything He pleases. He can forgive who ever He wishes to forgive. He wouldn’t need to sacrifice His own corporeal Son as a precondition of doing so.

It makes no sense.

The truth is that it doesn't please God to forgive who ever. If God wanted to forgive who ever, then all mankind would have no worry about entering the kingdom of heaven and if they never repent of their evil ways, heaven wouldn't really be heaven. As a just God, that would violate His character. God is a God who abides by the rule of His eternal law and His eternal justice. God's own law is that He is a God of justice.

God the Father did not force Jesus to be a Savior of the world. Jesus was a volunteer. He was the most excellent spirit child of the Father. He was even made a member of the godhead before the world was and was fully aware of what it would take to bring Salvation unto his fellow brothers and sisters. God knew that mankind was imperfect and coming to this earth and experiencing mortality would mean that all mankind would sin and fall short of abiding by the law of His celestial kingdom. According to justice, mankind was not worthy of entering the kingdom of heaven. But God knew this situation would occur and called Jesus as the Savior of the world before the foundation of the world. Along with all that God does, mercy also needs to be an act of justice. The genius of the situation was that God would allow the greatest of all injustices to occur which would require Him to recompense or compensate for the injustice. He would send Jesus to earth and allow him to be inflict with the greatest of injustices upon him as lamb without blemish and spot. What could God recompense a perfect being? Jesus was sinless and already was entitled to be in the kingdom of heaven. God knew that he would need to compensate him with something above and beyond salvation because he was never in need of salvation since he was never a fallen being. The plan before the foundation of this world was that Christ would become a Savior and as his recompense he would be allowed to forgive the sins of fallen mankind based on the doctrine of repentance and sanctification. Jesus was allowed as his recompense to grant forgiveness of sin and sanctify the sinner and cleanse him of his sins if the sinner would repent of his sins and forsake them. Through the gift of the Holy Ghost, mankind could be cleansed and be found worthy again to enter the kingdom of heaven. Through all of this, God could remain a God of justice and mankind could be forgiven and sanctified from sin so that he could enter the kingdom of heaven.

God, according to His own law of justice required that a Savior was needed and that the recompense of his unjust sufferings and the extent of his unjust sufferings would be sufficient to justify the forgiveness of sin based on the sinner repenting of his sins. Many people assume that God can just do anything and can unjustly allow mankind into heaven if he so desires. But God is bound by his own sense of justice and requires mankind to change and God to have a just reason for forgiving past sins of mankind. The recompense of Jesus' undeserving sufferings for all mankind was created to give God a just cause for granting a perfect being the right to forgive sin and to sanctify those who seek after forgiveness and sanctification.

Alma 42:14-24
14 And thus we see that all mankind were fallen, and they were in the grasp of justice; yea, the justice of God, which consigned them forever to be cut off from his presence.
15 And now, the plan of mercy could not be brought about except an atonement should be made; therefore God himself atoneth for the sins of the world, to bring about the plan of mercy, to appease the demands of justice, that God might be a perfect, just God, and a merciful God also.
16 Now, repentance could not come unto men except there were a punishment, which also was eternal as the life of the soul should be, affixed opposite to the plan of happiness, which was as eternal also as the life of the soul.
17 Now, how could a man repent except he should sin? How could he sin if there was no law? How could there be a law save there was a punishment?
18 Now, there was a punishment affixed, and a just law given, which brought remorse of conscience unto man.
19 Now, if there was no law given—if a man murdered he should die—would he be afraid he would die if he should murder?
20 And also, if there was no law given against sin men would not be afraid to sin.
21 And if there was no law given, if men sinned what could justice do, or mercy either, for they would have no claim upon the creature?
22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.
23 But God ceaseth not to be God, and mercy claimeth the penitent, and mercy cometh because of the atonement; and the atonement bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead; and the resurrection of the dead bringeth back men into the presence of God; and thus they are restored into his presence, to be judged according to their works, according to the law and justice.
24 For behold, justice exerciseth all his demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is her own; and thus, none but the truly penitent are saved.

 

[Hawkins]

Omnipotence is about how God's will is realized. He doesn't have an unrealizable will, that's why He's omnipotent. It seems that He likes to set up rules to govern realities. He set up physics to govern our university and He doesn't seem to have a will to break it, a posible exception is a miracle. We don't know what He did to separate the Red Sea.