The Nature of Belief

[RWS]

I meant Brotherhood of the Snake!

Dang beer....

 

[PK1]

Pirsig pretty much covers the Good vs. Truth debate here;

It is my belief that Truth wins, but it could not finish the race without Good.
.

---
Those "Truth" and "Good" words have subjective humanoid definitions and are relative to a culture, and one "absorbs" them during childhood psychological development ... in a religious family.
Scientists are interested in observed "reality" from objective methods & interpretations, often related to cause-effect patterns with various probabilities.

Belief systems, whether religious or scientific, are developed brain cell patterns reflective of CONSCIOUS memories that include emotional coding.
.

.
"Scientists are interested in observed "reality" from objective methods & interpretations, often related to cause-effect patterns with various probabilities."

Yet, theoretical physicists are called 'Scientists'.

hmmm...

.

---
Yes, PhD physicists are scientists, and some of them develop theories based on observed data.
Depending on the theory, research paradigms may be able to test them for "reality checks ".
Not so with religious ideas.
.

 

[zaangalewa]

"God" is the "Santa Claus" necessary to keep the masses in check.

We feel so bad when we finally reveal the Santa Claus to our kids, but have no such worries about revealing the fallacies of the religion they were born into...

That's wrong.

Because that's gonna lead them into something that they will devote their life to, based on BS. And that's why we have radical fanatic religious folks, fucking up the world. And of course, most devotees of a religion will not become fanatical. But if religion was just taken away completely, things would be better on Earth! We would probably already be travelling to other star systems.

If not for what religious zealots erased from our history. The knowledge that was lost, had to start over dozens of times.

Religion is the suppression of humanity and spirituality.

Follow Enki. And the Serpents of the Snake instead.

Your problem is Santa Claus exists - and this is not a belief. Everyone can find Santa Claus who studies Santa Claus. And who for heavens sake is on his own free will an enemy of Christmas?

 

[RWS]

That's my favorite Christmas song!!! Instrumental only tho, but that's my fav!

 

[RWS]

This is the version of Sleigh Ride i love. I'm a piano player, so I like the instrumentals on xmas music... (cause I sing like shit)

 

[RWS]

One day I'll post my version.

 

[RWS]

 

[RWS]

 

[RWS]

Here's me on a recording I made, of Billy. I do all the instruments. It's safe to click. Enjoy!

Playing: Goodnight My Angel - Steinway Grand Piano.mp3 - picosong

 

[Votto]

be·lief

\bə-ˈlēf\noun
: a feeling of being sure that someone or something exists or that something is true

: a feeling that something is good, right, or valuable

: a feeling of trust in the worth or ability of someone

Full Definition
1
:a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2
:something believed; especially :a tenet or body of tenets held by a group

Belief Definition of belief by Merriam-Webster

If we all agreed on the above definition of belief, appropriately vague and stating nothing about truth or Truth, and representing an opinion based on experience and used the word as such, would it reduce much of the division between people of differing beliefs? Or would we, as people, continue to hold to a stricter sense of the word and trust that what we believe is truth or Truth and those whose beliefs differ are wrong in those beliefs?

Do you believe that your beliefs are true? How much confidence do you have in those beliefs?

For example, if you believe in God, do you believe absolutely or is there room for doubt? Or, the Big Bang Theory or the theories of Evolution, or the theories of Relativity? Are these ideas or frameworks or world views, however it is that you hold them, absolute in your own mind or do you consider the possibility that they could be inaccurate?

If you believe in something absolutely, what makes you so confident in that belief? What makes you believe that your belief is 100% accurate?

If your beliefs are open to doubt, do you think that is a good thing?

Are Science and religion compatible under such a framework?

Discuss.

Science involves belief. In fact, every aspect of our existence and thought involves belief.

For example, if I were to say that the average temperature of the earth is increasing, and if I measured it correctly, it would simply be a meaningless fact. Who cares? What are the implications? It is questions like this that creates a belief of some kind. We assign value to facts and then try to correlate causation to these facts, all of which involves belief of some kind.

Belief is merely a means of connecting the dots, so to speak. If nothing were of value, and there was no concern with causation, then no one would give a damn about such things as scientific fact.

When it gets down to it, we can prove precious little in this world. Hell, we can't even prove that smoking causes cancer. All we have is a correlation indicating that it probably does.

What really ticks me off is that those who don't believe in a God think that their beliefs are so much better than everyone else. I suppose I can somewhat understand when people question "facts". I don't mind questioning the facts. In fact, I celebrate people who question anything in their lives. It's just when they refuse to investigate further because they have already convinced themselves of the facts is when I get pissed off. I see this from both the religious and nonreligious. It really goes both ways.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

be·lief

\bə-ˈlēf\noun
: a feeling of being sure that someone or something exists or that something is true

: a feeling that something is good, right, or valuable

: a feeling of trust in the worth or ability of someone

Full Definition
1
:a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2
:something believed; especially :a tenet or body of tenets held by a group

Belief Definition of belief by Merriam-Webster

If we all agreed on the above definition of belief, appropriately vague and stating nothing about truth or Truth, and representing an opinion based on experience and used the word as such, would it reduce much of the division between people of differing beliefs? Or would we, as people, continue to hold to a stricter sense of the word and trust that what we believe is truth or Truth and those whose beliefs differ are wrong in those beliefs?

Do you believe that your beliefs are true? How much confidence do you have in those beliefs?

For example, if you believe in God, do you believe absolutely or is there room for doubt? Or, the Big Bang Theory or the theories of Evolution, or the theories of Relativity? Are these ideas or frameworks or world views, however it is that you hold them, absolute in your own mind or do you consider the possibility that they could be inaccurate?

If you believe in something absolutely, what makes you so confident in that belief? What makes you believe that your belief is 100% accurate?

If your beliefs are open to doubt, do you think that is a good thing?

Are Science and religion compatible under such a framework?

Discuss.

Science involves belief. In fact, every aspect of our existence and thought involves belief.

For example, if I were to say that the average temperature of the earth is increasing, and if I measured it correctly, it would simply be a meaningless fact. Who cares? What are the implications? It is questions like this that creates a belief of some kind. We assign value to facts and then try to correlate causation to these facts, all of which involves belief of some kind.

Belief is merely a means of connecting the dots, so to speak. If nothing were of value, and there was no concern with causation, then no one would give a damn about such things as scientific fact.

When it gets down to it, we can prove precious little in this world. Hell, we can't even prove that smoking causes cancer. All we have is a correlation indicating that it probably does.

What really ticks me off is that those who don't believe in a God think that their beliefs are so much better than everyone else. I suppose I can somewhat understand when people question "facts". I don't mind questioning the facts. In fact, I celebrate people who question anything in their lives. It's just when they refuse to investigate further because they have already convinced themselves of the facts is when I get pissed off. I see this from both the religious and nonreligious. It really goes both ways.

Other than the "people who don't believe in a God" part of your last paragraph, I agree. I find that those who believe in a God value their beliefs above the beliefs of those who don't, and even those that do believe in a God value their beliefs above others whose belief in God is different. Not that those who don't believe are above such squabbling - everyone does it.

When people believe something without question, that probably bothers me more than anything about other people. When I catch myself doing it, I get really disappointed in myself. When people assume they know enough about something - no further need to look further into it - that's maybe my biggest pet peeve.

 

[PK1]

be·lief

\bə-ˈlēf\noun
: a feeling of being sure that someone or something exists or that something is true

: a feeling that something is good, right, or valuable

: a feeling of trust in the worth or ability of someone

Full Definition
1
:a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2
:something believed; especially :a tenet or body of tenets held by a group

Belief Definition of belief by Merriam-Webster

If we all agreed on the above definition of belief, appropriately vague and stating nothing about truth or Truth, and representing an opinion based on experience and used the word as such, would it reduce much of the division between people of differing beliefs? Or would we, as people, continue to hold to a stricter sense of the word and trust that what we believe is truth or Truth and those whose beliefs differ are wrong in those beliefs?

Do you believe that your beliefs are true? How much confidence do you have in those beliefs?

For example, if you believe in God, do you believe absolutely or is there room for doubt? Or, the Big Bang Theory or the theories of Evolution, or the theories of Relativity? Are these ideas or frameworks or world views, however it is that you hold them, absolute in your own mind or do you consider the possibility that they could be inaccurate?

If you believe in something absolutely, what makes you so confident in that belief? What makes you believe that your belief is 100% accurate?

If your beliefs are open to doubt, do you think that is a good thing?

Are Science and religion compatible under such a framework?

Discuss.

Science involves belief. In fact, every aspect of our existence and thought involves belief.

For example, if I were to say that the average temperature of the earth is increasing, and if I measured it correctly, it would simply be a meaningless fact. Who cares? What are the implications? It is questions like this that creates a belief of some kind. We assign value to facts and then try to correlate causation to these facts, all of which involves belief of some kind.

Belief is merely a means of connecting the dots, so to speak. If nothing were of value, and there was no concern with causation, then no one would give a damn about such things as scientific fact.

When it gets down to it, we can prove precious little in this world. Hell, we can't even prove that smoking causes cancer. All we have is a correlation indicating that it probably does.

What really ticks me off is that those who don't believe in a God think that their beliefs are so much better than everyone else. I suppose I can somewhat understand when people question "facts". I don't mind questioning the facts. In fact, I celebrate people who question anything in their lives. It's just when they refuse to investigate further because they have already convinced themselves of the facts is when I get pissed off. I see this from both the religious and nonreligious. It really goes both ways.

---
"those who don't believe in a God think that their beliefs are so much better"

If the non-God beliefs are scientific, then yes, they are "better" ... based on evidence & rational thought rather than fear of ignorance, simplicity ("God" of the gaps in knowledge) & emotional pacification.
.

 

[PK1]

be·lief

\bə-ˈlēf\noun
: a feeling of being sure that someone or something exists or that something is true

: a feeling that something is good, right, or valuable

: a feeling of trust in the worth or ability of someone

Full Definition
1
:a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2
:something believed; especially :a tenet or body of tenets held by a group

Belief Definition of belief by Merriam-Webster

If we all agreed on the above definition of belief, appropriately vague and stating nothing about truth or Truth, and representing an opinion based on experience and used the word as such, would it reduce much of the division between people of differing beliefs? Or would we, as people, continue to hold to a stricter sense of the word and trust that what we believe is truth or Truth and those whose beliefs differ are wrong in those beliefs?

Do you believe that your beliefs are true? How much confidence do you have in those beliefs?

For example, if you believe in God, do you believe absolutely or is there room for doubt? Or, the Big Bang Theory or the theories of Evolution, or the theories of Relativity? Are these ideas or frameworks or world views, however it is that you hold them, absolute in your own mind or do you consider the possibility that they could be inaccurate?

If you believe in something absolutely, what makes you so confident in that belief? What makes you believe that your belief is 100% accurate?

If your beliefs are open to doubt, do you think that is a good thing?

Are Science and religion compatible under such a framework?

Discuss.

Science involves belief. In fact, every aspect of our existence and thought involves belief.

For example, if I were to say that the average temperature of the earth is increasing, and if I measured it correctly, it would simply be a meaningless fact. Who cares? What are the implications? It is questions like this that creates a belief of some kind. We assign value to facts and then try to correlate causation to these facts, all of which involves belief of some kind.

Belief is merely a means of connecting the dots, so to speak. If nothing were of value, and there was no concern with causation, then no one would give a damn about such things as scientific fact.

When it gets down to it, we can prove precious little in this world. Hell, we can't even prove that smoking causes cancer. All we have is a correlation indicating that it probably does.

What really ticks me off is that those who don't believe in a God think that their beliefs are so much better than everyone else. I suppose I can somewhat understand when people question "facts". I don't mind questioning the facts. In fact, I celebrate people who question anything in their lives. It's just when they refuse to investigate further because they have already convinced themselves of the facts is when I get pissed off. I see this from both the religious and nonreligious. It really goes both ways.

Other than the "people who don't believe in a God" part of your last paragraph, I agree. I find that those who believe in a God value their beliefs above the beliefs of those who don't, and even those that do believe in a God value their beliefs above others whose belief in God is different. Not that those who don't believe are above such squabbling - everyone does it.

When people believe something without question, that probably bothers me more than anything about other people. When I catch myself doing it, I get really disappointed in myself. When people assume they know enough about something - no further need to look further into it - that's maybe my biggest pet peeve.

---
"When people believe something without question, that probably bothers me more than anything"

Agreed.
.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

be·lief

\bə-ˈlēf\noun
: a feeling of being sure that someone or something exists or that something is true

: a feeling that something is good, right, or valuable

: a feeling of trust in the worth or ability of someone

Full Definition
1
:a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2
:something believed; especially :a tenet or body of tenets held by a group

Belief Definition of belief by Merriam-Webster

If we all agreed on the above definition of belief, appropriately vague and stating nothing about truth or Truth, and representing an opinion based on experience and used the word as such, would it reduce much of the division between people of differing beliefs? Or would we, as people, continue to hold to a stricter sense of the word and trust that what we believe is truth or Truth and those whose beliefs differ are wrong in those beliefs?

Do you believe that your beliefs are true? How much confidence do you have in those beliefs?

For example, if you believe in God, do you believe absolutely or is there room for doubt? Or, the Big Bang Theory or the theories of Evolution, or the theories of Relativity? Are these ideas or frameworks or world views, however it is that you hold them, absolute in your own mind or do you consider the possibility that they could be inaccurate?

If you believe in something absolutely, what makes you so confident in that belief? What makes you believe that your belief is 100% accurate?

If your beliefs are open to doubt, do you think that is a good thing?

Are Science and religion compatible under such a framework?

Discuss.

Science involves belief. In fact, every aspect of our existence and thought involves belief.

For example, if I were to say that the average temperature of the earth is increasing, and if I measured it correctly, it would simply be a meaningless fact. Who cares? What are the implications? It is questions like this that creates a belief of some kind. We assign value to facts and then try to correlate causation to these facts, all of which involves belief of some kind.

Belief is merely a means of connecting the dots, so to speak. If nothing were of value, and there was no concern with causation, then no one would give a damn about such things as scientific fact.

When it gets down to it, we can prove precious little in this world. Hell, we can't even prove that smoking causes cancer. All we have is a correlation indicating that it probably does.

What really ticks me off is that those who don't believe in a God think that their beliefs are so much better than everyone else. I suppose I can somewhat understand when people question "facts". I don't mind questioning the facts. In fact, I celebrate people who question anything in their lives. It's just when they refuse to investigate further because they have already convinced themselves of the facts is when I get pissed off. I see this from both the religious and nonreligious. It really goes both ways.

---
"those who don't believe in a God think that their beliefs are so much better"

If the non-God beliefs are scientific, then yes, they are "better" ... based on evidence & rational thought rather than fear of ignorance, simplicity ("God" of the gaps in knowledge) & emotional pacification.
.

I agree, and my point still stands.

 

[PK1]

be·lief

\bə-ˈlēf\noun
: a feeling of being sure that someone or something exists or that something is true

: a feeling that something is good, right, or valuable

: a feeling of trust in the worth or ability of someone

Full Definition
1
:a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2
:something believed; especially :a tenet or body of tenets held by a group

Belief Definition of belief by Merriam-Webster

If we all agreed on the above definition of belief, appropriately vague and stating nothing about truth or Truth, and representing an opinion based on experience and used the word as such, would it reduce much of the division between people of differing beliefs? Or would we, as people, continue to hold to a stricter sense of the word and trust that what we believe is truth or Truth and those whose beliefs differ are wrong in those beliefs?

Do you believe that your beliefs are true? How much confidence do you have in those beliefs?

For example, if you believe in God, do you believe absolutely or is there room for doubt? Or, the Big Bang Theory or the theories of Evolution, or the theories of Relativity? Are these ideas or frameworks or world views, however it is that you hold them, absolute in your own mind or do you consider the possibility that they could be inaccurate?

If you believe in something absolutely, what makes you so confident in that belief? What makes you believe that your belief is 100% accurate?

If your beliefs are open to doubt, do you think that is a good thing?

Are Science and religion compatible under such a framework?

Discuss.

Science involves belief. In fact, every aspect of our existence and thought involves belief.

For example, if I were to say that the average temperature of the earth is increasing, and if I measured it correctly, it would simply be a meaningless fact. Who cares? What are the implications? It is questions like this that creates a belief of some kind. We assign value to facts and then try to correlate causation to these facts, all of which involves belief of some kind.

Belief is merely a means of connecting the dots, so to speak. If nothing were of value, and there was no concern with causation, then no one would give a damn about such things as scientific fact.

When it gets down to it, we can prove precious little in this world. Hell, we can't even prove that smoking causes cancer. All we have is a correlation indicating that it probably does.

What really ticks me off is that those who don't believe in a God think that their beliefs are so much better than everyone else. I suppose I can somewhat understand when people question "facts". I don't mind questioning the facts. In fact, I celebrate people who question anything in their lives. It's just when they refuse to investigate further because they have already convinced themselves of the facts is when I get pissed off. I see this from both the religious and nonreligious. It really goes both ways.

---
"those who don't believe in a God think that their beliefs are so much better"

If the non-God beliefs are scientific, then yes, they are "better" ... based on evidence & rational thought rather than fear of ignorance, simplicity ("God" of the gaps in knowledge) & emotional pacification.
.

I agree, and my point still stands.

---
Your point? Agnosticism is a rational position?

.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

be·lief

\bə-ˈlēf\noun
: a feeling of being sure that someone or something exists or that something is true

: a feeling that something is good, right, or valuable

: a feeling of trust in the worth or ability of someone

Full Definition
1
:a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2
:something believed; especially :a tenet or body of tenets held by a group

Belief Definition of belief by Merriam-Webster

If we all agreed on the above definition of belief, appropriately vague and stating nothing about truth or Truth, and representing an opinion based on experience and used the word as such, would it reduce much of the division between people of differing beliefs? Or would we, as people, continue to hold to a stricter sense of the word and trust that what we believe is truth or Truth and those whose beliefs differ are wrong in those beliefs?

Do you believe that your beliefs are true? How much confidence do you have in those beliefs?

For example, if you believe in God, do you believe absolutely or is there room for doubt? Or, the Big Bang Theory or the theories of Evolution, or the theories of Relativity? Are these ideas or frameworks or world views, however it is that you hold them, absolute in your own mind or do you consider the possibility that they could be inaccurate?

If you believe in something absolutely, what makes you so confident in that belief? What makes you believe that your belief is 100% accurate?

If your beliefs are open to doubt, do you think that is a good thing?

Are Science and religion compatible under such a framework?

Discuss.

Science involves belief. In fact, every aspect of our existence and thought involves belief.

For example, if I were to say that the average temperature of the earth is increasing, and if I measured it correctly, it would simply be a meaningless fact. Who cares? What are the implications? It is questions like this that creates a belief of some kind. We assign value to facts and then try to correlate causation to these facts, all of which involves belief of some kind.

Belief is merely a means of connecting the dots, so to speak. If nothing were of value, and there was no concern with causation, then no one would give a damn about such things as scientific fact.

When it gets down to it, we can prove precious little in this world. Hell, we can't even prove that smoking causes cancer. All we have is a correlation indicating that it probably does.

What really ticks me off is that those who don't believe in a God think that their beliefs are so much better than everyone else. I suppose I can somewhat understand when people question "facts". I don't mind questioning the facts. In fact, I celebrate people who question anything in their lives. It's just when they refuse to investigate further because they have already convinced themselves of the facts is when I get pissed off. I see this from both the religious and nonreligious. It really goes both ways.

---
"those who don't believe in a God think that their beliefs are so much better"

If the non-God beliefs are scientific, then yes, they are "better" ... based on evidence & rational thought rather than fear of ignorance, simplicity ("God" of the gaps in knowledge) & emotional pacification.
.

I agree, and my point still stands.

---
Your point? Agnosticism is a rational position?

.

Yeah, pretty much...

 

[Igrok_]

The nature of Belief is that the man was created to be the son of God and without this tie he can't be calm. So, Belief allows the man to move to the place where God is...or in the opposite direction.

 

[RWS]

Belief is when you don't know the facts, but decide that you do.

It's ok in many circumstances, but when it comes to religion... it has cost countless lives. And will likely continue to do so.

I am a staunch UFO advocate, but I do not believe it. I will argue for the possibilities, and fully discuss various scenarios in the past that led to the present, but I still do not believe it. I am willing to listen to, discuss, and accept rational arguments that would dispute my hypothesis. And, while also being an advocate for science, I also cannot say that I believe current theories. I'll argue for them, but if there's one thing science has taught us, is that every theory prior to the current one, was wrong! The latest is not necessarily the greatest...

But religions cannot allow that. They don't want people wandering in their minds about the alternative possibilities, including other religions. Because it costs them money and power when people stray. Therefore, you must BELIEVE, even in the face of insurmountable evidence or circumstances.

 

[RWS]

In science, when thoughts stray... advances sometimes happen!

In religion, people die... every time....

 

[RWS]

I have this poster, and I think it sums it up nicely.... : -)