The most difficult reality to explain/justify about God, "why is there so much evil?"

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You agreed that it IS comforting to realize that an afterlife is possible, throughout history that belief has helped a great many people get through some very hard times.

So what? Good for them. They soothed themselves with a fantasy.

 

[norwegen]

I'm not just referring to humans, we are certainly the most sadistic of creatures, far too often deliberately, often taking pleasure in others pain. I also think about the Animal Kingdom in which instinctive responses or need to sustain oneself requires hunting and eating other creatures.

I've heard some strong explanations such as "we need evil to know what good is" etc. However, the abundance of suffering, just the physiological system of nerves and sensors that elicit pain, it's always been difficult for me to understand why God created earths creatures this way.

In fairness, I don't even know why this makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint either when I think are probably better ways to have been built (even as the human body and brain is the most complex on earth).

Maybe you and God disagree about what is evil and what is not. This is a being that punishes or kills innocent men, women, children, and animals.

As for physical pain, it is the way your body tells you it's in trouble

This is a being that punishes or kills innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Yeah, sure HE does. <SARCASM>.

That's what the Bible says, you should read it sometime. Punishments are carried across 4 generations so my great-great-grandson will be punished for my sins. And he has yet to be born.

Only descendants of Abraham were ever subject to the Law. For 1,949 years now, no one has been subject o it.

 

[alang1216]

I'm not just referring to humans, we are certainly the most sadistic of creatures, far too often deliberately, often taking pleasure in others pain. I also think about the Animal Kingdom in which instinctive responses or need to sustain oneself requires hunting and eating other creatures.

I've heard some strong explanations such as "we need evil to know what good is" etc. However, the abundance of suffering, just the physiological system of nerves and sensors that elicit pain, it's always been difficult for me to understand why God created earths creatures this way.

In fairness, I don't even know why this makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint either when I think are probably better ways to have been built (even as the human body and brain is the most complex on earth).

Maybe you and God disagree about what is evil and what is not. This is a being that punishes or kills innocent men, women, children, and animals.

As for physical pain, it is the way your body tells you it's in trouble

This is a being that punishes or kills innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Yeah, sure HE does. <SARCASM>.

That's what the Bible says, you should read it sometime. Punishments are carried across 4 generations so my great-great-grandson will be punished for my sins. And he has yet to be born.

Only descendants of Abraham were ever subject to the Law. For 1,949 years now, no one has been subject o it.

The point is that God's moral code allowed him to punish or kill innocent men, women, children, and animals.

 

[Meriweather]

The point is that God's moral code allowed him to punish or kill innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Wrong on so many counts. This stems from not understanding the art of story-telling in ancient times and then recreating the stories through the lens of modern Western civilization.

 

[progressive hunter]

No, that's retarded and whiny. What I believe is good is giving women power over their own reproductive aystems. It's a triumph of humanity. And all empowerment of women is done in spite of your little iron aged fetishes.

You have been deceived. You are a servant of Satan, and you don't even know it.

Sorry shaman,your magical horseshit holds no weight outside of your own mind.

WOW!!! your one to call another person beliefs horseshit,,,

you think we all came from a rock and magically transformed into humans,,,

 

[norwegen]

I'm not just referring to humans, we are certainly the most sadistic of creatures, far too often deliberately, often taking pleasure in others pain. I also think about the Animal Kingdom in which instinctive responses or need to sustain oneself requires hunting and eating other creatures.

I've heard some strong explanations such as "we need evil to know what good is" etc. However, the abundance of suffering, just the physiological system of nerves and sensors that elicit pain, it's always been difficult for me to understand why God created earths creatures this way.

In fairness, I don't even know why this makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint either when I think are probably better ways to have been built (even as the human body and brain is the most complex on earth).

Maybe you and God disagree about what is evil and what is not. This is a being that punishes or kills innocent men, women, children, and animals.

As for physical pain, it is the way your body tells you it's in trouble

This is a being that punishes or kills innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Yeah, sure HE does. <SARCASM>.

That's what the Bible says, you should read it sometime. Punishments are carried across 4 generations so my great-great-grandson will be punished for my sins. And he has yet to be born.

Only descendants of Abraham were ever subject to the Law. For 1,949 years now, no one has been subject o it.

The point is that God's moral code allowed him to punish or kill innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Actually, that was man's moral code. The Law was the moral code of a people among whom "none was righteous, not even one," as David laments and as Paul recites. Can edicts come from a God to a people who do not honor Him or give thanks to Him? Who have exchanged Him for idols? (Rom 1:21-23)

After a proper exegesis, we should conclude that that is what evil is - it's idolatry. When God is absent, men, women, children, and animals suffer for it. All the drama of the Old Testament - the violence, incest, drunkenness, and all the rest - that's the drama of a people before their Messiah came, before the divine glory was revealed once again on the earth.

 

[alang1216]

The point is that God's moral code allowed him to punish or kill innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Wrong on so many counts. This stems from not understanding the art of story-telling in ancient times and then recreating the stories through the lens of modern Western civilization.

I might accuse you of the same. How do you interpret the story of David's census?

 

[alang1216]

The point is that God's moral code allowed him to punish or kill innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Actually, that was man's moral code. The Law was the moral code of a people among whom "none was righteous, not even one," as David laments and as Paul recites. Can edicts come from a God to a people who do not honor Him or give thanks to Him? Who have exchanged Him for idols? (Rom 1:21-23)

After a proper exegesis, we should conclude that that is what evil is - it's idolatry. When God is absent, men, women, children, and animals suffer for it. All the drama of the Old Testament - the violence, incest, drunkenness, and all the rest - that's the drama of a people before their Messiah came, before the divine glory was revealed once again on the earth.

Not according to the Bible. Noah's flood killed the guilty and innocent alike. Joshua put every man, woman, and child in Jericho to the sword on God's command. Then he killed all the animals for good measure.

 

[norwegen]

The point is that God's moral code allowed him to punish or kill innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Actually, that was man's moral code. The Law was the moral code of a people among whom "none was righteous, not even one," as David laments and as Paul recites. Can edicts come from a God to a people who do not honor Him or give thanks to Him? Who have exchanged Him for idols? (Rom 1:21-23)

After a proper exegesis, we should conclude that that is what evil is - it's idolatry. When God is absent, men, women, children, and animals suffer for it. All the drama of the Old Testament - the violence, incest, drunkenness, and all the rest - that's the drama of a people before their Messiah came, before the divine glory was revealed once again on the earth.

Not according to the Bible. Noah's flood killed the guilty and innocent alike. Joshua put every man, woman, and child in Jericho to the sword on God's command. Then he killed all the animals for good measure.

You're just like a fundamentalist. It's all literal to you, isn't it. God literally speaks to a people who spurn Him.

That's you prerogative.

 

[alang1216]

The point is that God's moral code allowed him to punish or kill innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Actually, that was man's moral code. The Law was the moral code of a people among whom "none was righteous, not even one," as David laments and as Paul recites. Can edicts come from a God to a people who do not honor Him or give thanks to Him? Who have exchanged Him for idols? (Rom 1:21-23)

After a proper exegesis, we should conclude that that is what evil is - it's idolatry. When God is absent, men, women, children, and animals suffer for it. All the drama of the Old Testament - the violence, incest, drunkenness, and all the rest - that's the drama of a people before their Messiah came, before the divine glory was revealed once again on the earth.

Not according to the Bible. Noah's flood killed the guilty and innocent alike. Joshua put every man, woman, and child in Jericho to the sword on God's command. Then he killed all the animals for good measure.

You're just like a fundamentalist. It's all literal to you, isn't it. God literally speaks to a people who spurn Him.

That's you prerogative.

I guess you're one of those chosen few who can interpret God's words and understand what he meant to say. Or do you view the Bible as a bunch of stories that you can pick and choose from to assemble your own religion? Well, you wouldn't be the first. Sorry the Bible doesn't say what you want it to say.

 

[Meriweather]

How do you interpret the story of David's census?

Why?

 

[alang1216]

How do you interpret the story of David's census?

Why?

I said God's moral code allowed him to punish or kill innocent men, women, and children. You said I'm not understanding the art of story-telling in ancient times and then recreating the stories through the lens of modern Western civilization. How do understand the story?

 

[Meriweather]

I said God's moral code allowed him to punish or kill innocent men, women, and children. You said I'm not understanding the art of story-telling in ancient times and then recreating the stories through the lens of modern Western civilization. How do understand the story?

And I asked why you want to know. Today, 1 in 4 people take the Bible literally. Obviously you are part of that 1. On the other hand, this means that 3 of 4 people do not take the Bible literally. I am part of that 3. Why would care what the 3 think when you are of the 1?

 

[BreezeWood]

I think you mean , why in the heck didn't he create heaven first. I quite agree. He could of and should of. ​

Tell Him that when you see Him.

I no longer believe in an afterlife. This life is heaven and hell and is all there is.

.

I no longer believe in an afterlife. This life is heaven and hell and is all there is.

the metaphysical phenomena from whence we came does not come to an end with the passing of individual lives and so with the original ticket no doubt there must be a means for a round trip.

 

[BreezeWood]

The point is that God's moral code allowed him to punish or kill innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Actually, that was man's moral code. The Law was the moral code of a people among whom "none was righteous, not even one," as David laments and as Paul recites. Can edicts come from a God to a people who do not honor Him or give thanks to Him? Who have exchanged Him for idols? (Rom 1:21-23)

After a proper exegesis, we should conclude that that is what evil is - it's idolatry. When God is absent, men, women, children, and animals suffer for it. All the drama of the Old Testament - the violence, incest, drunkenness, and all the rest - that's the drama of a people before their Messiah came, before the divine glory was revealed once again on the earth.

Not according to the Bible. Noah's flood killed the guilty and innocent alike. Joshua put every man, woman, and child in Jericho to the sword on God's command. Then he killed all the animals for good measure.

.

Not according to the Bible. Noah's flood killed the guilty and innocent alike.

that may be correct but that is not the event that occurred, the parable would have ended with noah's death, the Almighty preempted the inevitable and gave humanity a second chance - the event was the reaffirmation of the religion of antiquity. only the evil perished.

 

[norwegen]

Sorry the Bible doesn't say what you want it to say.

I guess you're one of the chosen few who knows what it says.

 

[diver52]

The point is that God's moral code allowed him to punish or kill innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Actually, that was man's moral code. The Law was the moral code of a people among whom "none was righteous, not even one," as David laments and as Paul recites. Can edicts come from a God to a people who do not honor Him or give thanks to Him? Who have exchanged Him for idols? (Rom 1:21-23)

After a proper exegesis, we should conclude that that is what evil is - it's idolatry. When God is absent, men, women, children, and animals suffer for it. All the drama of the Old Testament - the violence, incest, drunkenness, and all the rest - that's the drama of a people before their Messiah came, before the divine glory was revealed once again on the earth.

Not according to the Bible. Noah's flood killed the guilty and innocent alike. Joshua put every man, woman, and child in Jericho to the sword on God's command. Then he killed all the animals for good measure.

.

Not according to the Bible. Noah's flood killed the guilty and innocent alike.

that may be correct but that is not the event that occurred, the parable would have ended with noah's death, the Almighty preempted the inevitable and gave humanity a second chance - the event was the reaffirmation of the religion of antiquity. only the evil perished.

The evil clearly did not perish.

 

[alang1216]

I said God's moral code allowed him to punish or kill innocent men, women, and children. You said I'm not understanding the art of story-telling in ancient times and then recreating the stories through the lens of modern Western civilization. How do understand the story?

And I asked why you want to know. Today, 1 in 4 people take the Bible literally. Obviously you are part of that 1. On the other hand, this means that 3 of 4 people do not take the Bible literally. I am part of that 3. Why would care what the 3 think when you are of the 1?

I'm curious how those 75% view the story of David and the census. I'm also wondering what in the Bible should be taken literally and what is allegory, metaphor, etc. How does one know which is which?

 

[alang1216]

Sorry the Bible doesn't say what you want it to say.

I guess you're one of the chosen few who knows what it says.

We all know what it says, it is apparent not all of us know what it means.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm curious how those 75% view the story of David and the census. I'm also wondering what in the Bible should be taken literally and what is allegory, metaphor, etc. How does one know which is which?

When I first began an in depth study of the Old Testament, I was advised to keep in mind two things: First, Knowledge we have gained. If we know that natural disasters and illnesses are not caused by God today, then we know they were not caused by Him in Biblical times. Second, if there are not talking donkeys and snakes today or trees where one plucked and ate a fruit to know what was good and what was evil, then we can be relatively certain that is not what took place then, either. We are being alerted that we are entering the Lands of Allegory and Symbolism.

The Book of Samuel (and Chronicles) were not written in diary form, but story form. In those days they believed disasters did not come about naturally, but were sent by God because the people were misbehaving (and like today, we always were). So, when the plague struck, people naturally wanted to know what they did wrong. Looking back they noted that King David had taken a improper census (bad enough to begin with) improperly (doubling the offense). The story was written to explain the plague that killed 70,000.

There are beautiful reasons why Jews took censuses the way Moses commanded. They were one people, they were not divided. (The way we understand Team and Teamwork today.) This was not an outlook only the Jews kept, but is often found in tribal communities. One tribe, not many individuals living together. This is most likely why we don't see Old Testament authors addressing why babies were not spared in floods and plagues. They were tribe. The tribe was being punished. Today, when we cut down a tree or prune a bush, we don't spare the innocent leaves. People then thought of their tribe in the same way--as a whole. When a tribe was being punished, it meant that whole, and it was taken for granted the young "leaves" could not be spared. Today, we are very individualistically minded, but not so then.

Anyway, to keep that sense of unity first and foremost in everyone's mind, Moses did not count individuals. He counted the shekels that each individual gave. He counted shekels, not individuals, because he would not divide his tribe. They were one together.