The Mormonizing Of America

[RetiredGySgt]

The Mormonizing of America Stephen Mansfield

It's an older article but I saw it last night and it's good. And I figured it would be a good balance to that other thread.

How about if you tell us a little about the Mormon doctrine. I'm just reading up on this, so tell me if the below is correct.

Lehi is the first Mormon to arrive in America. He lived in Jerusalem in 600 BC. They were all evil in Jerusalem, every single one of them, man, woman, child, and fetuses, so God put him on a boat and lead him to America. That's right, in 600 BC....in a boat.

Is that correct?

Lehi, his sons and their families and another man and his sons and their families were guided through the wilderness to a far off coast and there taught how to construct a vessel to cross the sea. and yes they arrived it what would become the America's

 

[Carla_Danger]

When Brigham Young said the Sun and Moon were inhabited was that just a Revelation or was it Prophesy?

Careful now, don't wanna' risk your becoming a God in the afterlife!

Christian religion: Jesus died and was reborn. Jesus turned water into wine.
Liberal Religion: Diversity is our strength. Race is only a social construction.

Believing in things that are just no so is not a hallmark only of Mormonism. Liberals believe in their religious nonsense, Christians believe in theirs, Jews believe in their nonsense.

Why not instead look at how the black box of religious belief results in social metrics. Salt Lake City has one of the highest levels of social mobility in the nation, that is some of the greatest movement up and down the income ladder. If you are born poor in SLC you have a far better chance moving up through the income quintiles than you would in Seattle or Los Angeles or Boston, all cities run by liberals.

Mormons families are more stable, less plagued by alcoholism and divorce, they have more children, they're more middle class, they have lower rates of single motherhood, drug abuse, etc. These are actual life influencing consequences, so why put emphasis on the beliefs if the beliefs produce these results?

Before you go packing your bags and head for Utah, you should know that it's leading the nation with the highest antidepressant usage.

Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use

and

Utah No. 1 in online porn subscriptions, report says

Koshergrl has a thread which tells all about porn addicts and how they become serial rapists.

Serial Killers rapists Liked Porn First Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Rikurzhen]

When Brigham Young said the Sun and Moon were inhabited was that just a Revelation or was it Prophesy?

Careful now, don't wanna' risk your becoming a God in the afterlife!

Christian religion: Jesus died and was reborn. Jesus turned water into wine.
Liberal Religion: Diversity is our strength. Race is only a social construction.

Believing in things that are just no so is not a hallmark only of Mormonism. Liberals believe in their religious nonsense, Christians believe in theirs, Jews believe in their nonsense.

Why not instead look at how the black box of religious belief results in social metrics. Salt Lake City has one of the highest levels of social mobility in the nation, that is some of the greatest movement up and down the income ladder. If you are born poor in SLC you have a far better chance moving up through the income quintiles than you would in Seattle or Los Angeles or Boston, all cities run by liberals.

Mormons families are more stable, less plagued by alcoholism and divorce, they have more children, they're more middle class, they have lower rates of single motherhood, drug abuse, etc. These are actual life influencing consequences, so why put emphasis on the beliefs if the beliefs produce these results?

Before you go packing your bags and head for Utah, you should know that it's leading the nation with the highest antidepressant usage.

Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use

and

Utah No. 1 in online porn subscriptions, report says

Koshergrl has a thread which tells all about porn addicts and how they become serial rapists.

Serial Killers rapists Liked Porn First Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Thanks for those links. They're interesting. What do they say though? People in Utah are white and middle class. The same dynamic which describes Oregon and Maine. Surely you're not suggesting that Oregon and Maine are hotbeds of Mormonism.

To be fair, most of the positive attributes associated with Mormonism also derive from its whiteness. Mormon America is like 1950s America - June and Ward Cleaver and that's why it has so many positive outcomes.

For those who are hoping for Mormon failure, rest easy, it's coming as Mormonism becomes multicultural. They can't produce the same outcomes seen in Utah's white population in multicultural Mormon populations. This though doesn't take anything away from the accomplishments made in white Mormon communities. Mormonism seems to channel and amplify good behaviors.

As for depression, there are a few balls in the air. Rates of depression, rates of anti-depressant use and the correlations between anti-depressant use and race and income. Once you get all of that nailed down, then you've cleared the decks to see what effect Mormon religion has on anti-depressant use. My guess is no effect at all.

Anti-depressant use:

Approximately 14.3% of whites and 5.0% of African Americans used antidepressants in 1996. In controlled analyses, the prevalence odds ratio for antidepressant use in whites, compared to African Americans, was 1.76 in 1986 and 3.77 in 1996.CONCLUSIONS: African American elders are much less likely to take antidepressants, and the difference in use increased over the 10 years of the survey.
​

Prevalence of depression:

Prevalence of major depressive disorder differed significantly by racial/ethnic group, with the highest prevalence in White participants =. Mexican American and White individuals had significantly earlier onset of major depressive disorder compared with African American individuals
​

Correlation of income to diagnosis of depression:

Financial factors may also play a role in the detection rates, according to Akincigil.

Among Medicare beneficiaries, African-Americans are substantially less likely than non-Hispanic whites to have private supplemental insurance that covers charges larger than standard Medicare-approved amounts.

“Differences in provider reimbursement may favor increased clinical detection of depression in white patient groups if higher payment rates result in longer visits,” she said.​

 

[AquaAthena]

Mormons are not any weirder than you, goddess. Some nice ones, some doofus ones, some mean ones, just like most groupings.

I lived for two years, in Salt Lake City, and loved all the Mormons I met. I loved their lifestyle, as I perceived it. I had many friends. I have many good memories.

 

[Carla_Danger]

When Brigham Young said the Sun and Moon were inhabited was that just a Revelation or was it Prophesy?

Careful now, don't wanna' risk your becoming a God in the afterlife!

Christian religion: Jesus died and was reborn. Jesus turned water into wine.
Liberal Religion: Diversity is our strength. Race is only a social construction.

Believing in things that are just no so is not a hallmark only of Mormonism. Liberals believe in their religious nonsense, Christians believe in theirs, Jews believe in their nonsense.

Why not instead look at how the black box of religious belief results in social metrics. Salt Lake City has one of the highest levels of social mobility in the nation, that is some of the greatest movement up and down the income ladder. If you are born poor in SLC you have a far better chance moving up through the income quintiles than you would in Seattle or Los Angeles or Boston, all cities run by liberals.

Mormons families are more stable, less plagued by alcoholism and divorce, they have more children, they're more middle class, they have lower rates of single motherhood, drug abuse, etc. These are actual life influencing consequences, so why put emphasis on the beliefs if the beliefs produce these results?

Before you go packing your bags and head for Utah, you should know that it's leading the nation with the highest antidepressant usage.

Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use

and

Utah No. 1 in online porn subscriptions, report says

Koshergrl has a thread which tells all about porn addicts and how they become serial rapists.

Serial Killers rapists Liked Porn First Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Thanks for those links. They're interesting. What do they say though? People in Utah are white and middle class. The same dynamic which describes Oregon and Maine. Surely you're not suggesting that Oregon and Maine are hotbeds of Mormonism.

To be fair, most of the positive attributes associated with Mormonism also derive from its whiteness. Mormon America is like 1950s America - June and Ward Cleaver and that's why it has so many positive outcomes.

For those who are hoping for Mormon failure, rest easy, it's coming as Mormonism becomes multicultural. They can't produce the same outcomes seen in Utah's white population in multicultural Mormon populations. This though doesn't take anything away from the accomplishments made in white Mormon communities. Mormonism seems to channel and amplify good behaviors.

As for depression, there are a few balls in the air. Rates of depression, rates of anti-depressant use and the correlations between anti-depressant use and race and income. Once you get all of that nailed down, then you've cleared the decks to see what effect Mormon religion has on anti-depressant use. My guess is no effect at all.

Anti-depressant use:

Approximately 14.3% of whites and 5.0% of African Americans used antidepressants in 1996. In controlled analyses, the prevalence odds ratio for antidepressant use in whites, compared to African Americans, was 1.76 in 1986 and 3.77 in 1996.CONCLUSIONS: African American elders are much less likely to take antidepressants, and the difference in use increased over the 10 years of the survey.
​

Prevalence of depression:

Prevalence of major depressive disorder differed significantly by racial/ethnic group, with the highest prevalence in White participants =. Mexican American and White individuals had significantly earlier onset of major depressive disorder compared with African American individuals
​

Correlation of income to diagnosis of depression:

Financial factors may also play a role in the detection rates, according to Akincigil.

Among Medicare beneficiaries, African-Americans are substantially less likely than non-Hispanic whites to have private supplemental insurance that covers charges larger than standard Medicare-approved amounts.

“Differences in provider reimbursement may favor increased clinical detection of depression in white patient groups if higher payment rates result in longer visits,” she said.​

Okkkie dokkkie.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Mormonis doing well in Mexico, Chile, and other parts of South America, in parts of Africa, and the Phillipines, and is easily holding its own in the US and Europe. Rik is right the white stranglehood on leadership will eventually become multicultural and the pioneer Rock Mountain mythology will disappear.

I live in SLC, I have known LDS and other Mormon sectarians all of my life, and they are generally fine people. The millennial LDS who are active are much, much different than the older generations; that's a good thing, I believe.

 

[Rikurzhen]

When Brigham Young said the Sun and Moon were inhabited was that just a Revelation or was it Prophesy?

Careful now, don't wanna' risk your becoming a God in the afterlife!

Christian religion: Jesus died and was reborn. Jesus turned water into wine.
Liberal Religion: Diversity is our strength. Race is only a social construction.

Believing in things that are just no so is not a hallmark only of Mormonism. Liberals believe in their religious nonsense, Christians believe in theirs, Jews believe in their nonsense.

Why not instead look at how the black box of religious belief results in social metrics. Salt Lake City has one of the highest levels of social mobility in the nation, that is some of the greatest movement up and down the income ladder. If you are born poor in SLC you have a far better chance moving up through the income quintiles than you would in Seattle or Los Angeles or Boston, all cities run by liberals.

Mormons families are more stable, less plagued by alcoholism and divorce, they have more children, they're more middle class, they have lower rates of single motherhood, drug abuse, etc. These are actual life influencing consequences, so why put emphasis on the beliefs if the beliefs produce these results?

Before you go packing your bags and head for Utah, you should know that it's leading the nation with the highest antidepressant usage.

Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use

and

Utah No. 1 in online porn subscriptions, report says

Koshergrl has a thread which tells all about porn addicts and how they become serial rapists.

Serial Killers rapists Liked Porn First Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Thanks for those links. They're interesting. What do they say though? People in Utah are white and middle class. The same dynamic which describes Oregon and Maine. Surely you're not suggesting that Oregon and Maine are hotbeds of Mormonism.

To be fair, most of the positive attributes associated with Mormonism also derive from its whiteness. Mormon America is like 1950s America - June and Ward Cleaver and that's why it has so many positive outcomes.

For those who are hoping for Mormon failure, rest easy, it's coming as Mormonism becomes multicultural. They can't produce the same outcomes seen in Utah's white population in multicultural Mormon populations. This though doesn't take anything away from the accomplishments made in white Mormon communities. Mormonism seems to channel and amplify good behaviors.

As for depression, there are a few balls in the air. Rates of depression, rates of anti-depressant use and the correlations between anti-depressant use and race and income. Once you get all of that nailed down, then you've cleared the decks to see what effect Mormon religion has on anti-depressant use. My guess is no effect at all.

Anti-depressant use:

Approximately 14.3% of whites and 5.0% of African Americans used antidepressants in 1996. In controlled analyses, the prevalence odds ratio for antidepressant use in whites, compared to African Americans, was 1.76 in 1986 and 3.77 in 1996.CONCLUSIONS: African American elders are much less likely to take antidepressants, and the difference in use increased over the 10 years of the survey.
​

Prevalence of depression:

Prevalence of major depressive disorder differed significantly by racial/ethnic group, with the highest prevalence in White participants =. Mexican American and White individuals had significantly earlier onset of major depressive disorder compared with African American individuals
​

Correlation of income to diagnosis of depression:

Financial factors may also play a role in the detection rates, according to Akincigil.

Among Medicare beneficiaries, African-Americans are substantially less likely than non-Hispanic whites to have private supplemental insurance that covers charges larger than standard Medicare-approved amounts.

“Differences in provider reimbursement may favor increased clinical detection of depression in white patient groups if higher payment rates result in longer visits,” she said.​

Okkkie dokkkie.

Hey, I get up in the morning and 5 minutes later the Sun rises. The Sun must be responding to me. Right?

That study you posted just tracked antidepressant prescriptions and nothing else. That by itself doesn't tell us anything about Mormonism's influence on depression. Oregon and Maine were close behind. They're not Mormon dominated states.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Mormonis doing well in Mexico, Chile, and other parts of South America, in parts of Africa, and the Phillipines, and is easily holding its own in the US and Europe. Rik is right the white stranglehood on leadership will eventually become multicultural and the pioneer Rock Mountain mythology will disappear.

I live in SLC, I have known LDS and other Mormon sectarians all of my life, and they are generally fine people. The millennial LDS who are active are much, much different than the older generations; that's a good thing, I believe.

The Mormons in Mexico and Chile who do well, assuming that they're converted or baptized or inducted, from the local population doesn't tell us whether they're doing well because they follow Mormon beliefs or because the people who do well and find Mormon teachings to make sense in terms of living a good life are the ones who join. Think of it this way - your local Rotary Club members also likely lead pretty good lives but is this because Rotary Club teaches them to be good people or because good people join the Rotary Club to associate with other good people?

Mormons are like the best of 1950s America. They're quality of life is something that we all could have had if we'd shut up the liberals.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Mormonis doing well in Mexico, Chile, and other parts of South America, in parts of Africa, and the Phillipines, and is easily holding its own in the US and Europe. Rik is right the white stranglehood on leadership will eventually become multicultural and the pioneer Rock Mountain mythology will disappear.

I live in SLC, I have known LDS and other Mormon sectarians all of my life, and they are generally fine people. The millennial LDS who are active are much, much different than the older generations; that's a good thing, I believe.

The Mormons in Mexico and Chile who do well, assuming that they're converted or baptized or inducted, from the local population doesn't tell us whether they're doing well because they follow Mormon beliefs or because the people who do well and find Mormon teachings to make sense in terms of living a good life are the ones who join. Think of it this way - your local Rotary Club members also likely lead pretty good lives but is this because Rotary Club teaches them to be good people or because good people join the Rotary Club to associate with other good people?

Mormons are like the best of 1950s America. They're quality of life is something that we all could have had if we'd shut up the liberals.

That Mormonism is almost gone.

And you are seeing a confirmation bias of what you want to see.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Mormonis doing well in Mexico, Chile, and other parts of South America, in parts of Africa, and the Phillipines, and is easily holding its own in the US and Europe. Rik is right the white stranglehood on leadership will eventually become multicultural and the pioneer Rock Mountain mythology will disappear.

I live in SLC, I have known LDS and other Mormon sectarians all of my life, and they are generally fine people. The millennial LDS who are active are much, much different than the older generations; that's a good thing, I believe.

The Mormons in Mexico and Chile who do well, assuming that they're converted or baptized or inducted, from the local population doesn't tell us whether they're doing well because they follow Mormon beliefs or because the people who do well and find Mormon teachings to make sense in terms of living a good life are the ones who join. Think of it this way - your local Rotary Club members also likely lead pretty good lives but is this because Rotary Club teaches them to be good people or because good people join the Rotary Club to associate with other good people?

Mormons are like the best of 1950s America. They're quality of life is something that we all could have had if we'd shut up the liberals.

That Mormonism is almost gone.

And you are seeing a confirmation bias of what you want to see.

Good for you, you've picked up some new lingo. Now work on this lesson - tossing around lingo doesn't make for an argument. Me calling you a cow doesn't make you a cow. See, mere assertion is to argument like masturbation is to sex - it makes you feel good and does nothing for anyone else.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Mormons are not any weirder than you, goddess. Some nice ones, some doofus ones, some mean ones, just like most groupings.

What are some things unique to Mormonism that I would not learn from other religions?
​

I don't think anyone else wears magic underwear

 

[RetiredGySgt]

When Brigham Young said the Sun and Moon were inhabited was that just a Revelation or was it Prophesy?

Careful now, don't wanna' risk your becoming a God in the afterlife!

Christian religion: Jesus died and was reborn. Jesus turned water into wine.
Liberal Religion: Diversity is our strength. Race is only a social construction.

Believing in things that are just no so is not a hallmark only of Mormonism. Liberals believe in their religious nonsense, Christians believe in theirs, Jews believe in their nonsense.

Why not instead look at how the black box of religious belief results in social metrics. Salt Lake City has one of the highest levels of social mobility in the nation, that is some of the greatest movement up and down the income ladder. If you are born poor in SLC you have a far better chance moving up through the income quintiles than you would in Seattle or Los Angeles or Boston, all cities run by liberals.

Mormons families are more stable, less plagued by alcoholism and divorce, they have more children, they're more middle class, they have lower rates of single motherhood, drug abuse, etc. These are actual life influencing consequences, so why put emphasis on the beliefs if the beliefs produce these results?

Before you go packing your bags and head for Utah, you should know that it's leading the nation with the highest antidepressant usage.

Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use

and

Utah No. 1 in online porn subscriptions, report says

Koshergrl has a thread which tells all about porn addicts and how they become serial rapists.

Serial Killers rapists Liked Porn First Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Since there was NO Correlation in the porn subscription to actual population numbers that is a meaningless claim.

 

[Rikurzhen]

When Brigham Young said the Sun and Moon were inhabited was that just a Revelation or was it Prophesy?

Careful now, don't wanna' risk your becoming a God in the afterlife!

Christian religion: Jesus died and was reborn. Jesus turned water into wine.
Liberal Religion: Diversity is our strength. Race is only a social construction.

Believing in things that are just no so is not a hallmark only of Mormonism. Liberals believe in their religious nonsense, Christians believe in theirs, Jews believe in their nonsense.

Why not instead look at how the black box of religious belief results in social metrics. Salt Lake City has one of the highest levels of social mobility in the nation, that is some of the greatest movement up and down the income ladder. If you are born poor in SLC you have a far better chance moving up through the income quintiles than you would in Seattle or Los Angeles or Boston, all cities run by liberals.

Mormons families are more stable, less plagued by alcoholism and divorce, they have more children, they're more middle class, they have lower rates of single motherhood, drug abuse, etc. These are actual life influencing consequences, so why put emphasis on the beliefs if the beliefs produce these results?

Before you go packing your bags and head for Utah, you should know that it's leading the nation with the highest antidepressant usage.

Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use

and

Utah No. 1 in online porn subscriptions, report says

Koshergrl has a thread which tells all about porn addicts and how they become serial rapists.

Serial Killers rapists Liked Porn First Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Since there was NO Correlation in the porn subscription to actual population numbers that is a meaningless claim.

There are flaws in that study - he looked at one top 10 seller of porn. That's like saying that Utahans like A&W hamburgers more than the people of NY like them without mentioning that (for instance) A&W restaurants are hugely popular in Utah and non-existent in New York. Looking at only one porn site doesn't tell us what he claims is true.

More importantly though, even if true, this is actually a better outcome than the alternative route used by the rest of the country to reduce its porn consumption, which is being promiscuous in order to satisfy one's lust. Porn viewing and promiscuity both have upsides and downsides. The downside of promiscuity are far worse than those of porn viewership. Take the deal that's offered - be fine with porn viewership and your community comes out ahead on the bargain.

 

[Avatar4321]

Mormons are not any weirder than you, goddess. Some nice ones, some doofus ones, some mean ones, just like most groupings.

What are some things unique to Mormonism that I would not learn from other religions?
​

I don't think anyone else wears magic underwear

Some underwear looks pretty magical on the right person.

 

[Avatar4321]

When Brigham Young said the Sun and Moon were inhabited was that just a Revelation or was it Prophesy?

Careful now, don't wanna' risk your becoming a God in the afterlife!

Christian religion: Jesus died and was reborn. Jesus turned water into wine.
Liberal Religion: Diversity is our strength. Race is only a social construction.

Believing in things that are just no so is not a hallmark only of Mormonism. Liberals believe in their religious nonsense, Christians believe in theirs, Jews believe in their nonsense.

Why not instead look at how the black box of religious belief results in social metrics. Salt Lake City has one of the highest levels of social mobility in the nation, that is some of the greatest movement up and down the income ladder. If you are born poor in SLC you have a far better chance moving up through the income quintiles than you would in Seattle or Los Angeles or Boston, all cities run by liberals.

Mormons families are more stable, less plagued by alcoholism and divorce, they have more children, they're more middle class, they have lower rates of single motherhood, drug abuse, etc. These are actual life influencing consequences, so why put emphasis on the beliefs if the beliefs produce these results?

Before you go packing your bags and head for Utah, you should know that it's leading the nation with the highest antidepressant usage.

Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use

and

Utah No. 1 in online porn subscriptions, report says

Koshergrl has a thread which tells all about porn addicts and how they become serial rapists.

Serial Killers rapists Liked Porn First Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Since there was NO Correlation in the porn subscription to actual population numbers that is a meaningless claim.

There are more recent and accurate studies that don't help the talking point for critics.

Though one subscription is too many in my opinion

 

[JakeStarkey]

Mormonis doing well in Mexico, Chile, and other parts of South America, in parts of Africa, and the Phillipines, and is easily holding its own in the US and Europe. Rik is right the white stranglehood on leadership will eventually become multicultural and the pioneer Rock Mountain mythology will disappear.

I live in SLC, I have known LDS and other Mormon sectarians all of my life, and they are generally fine people. The millennial LDS who are active are much, much different than the older generations; that's a good thing, I believe.

The Mormons in Mexico and Chile who do well, assuming that they're converted or baptized or inducted, from the local population doesn't tell us whether they're doing well because they follow Mormon beliefs or because the people who do well and find Mormon teachings to make sense in terms of living a good life are the ones who join. Think of it this way - your local Rotary Club members also likely lead pretty good lives but is this because Rotary Club teaches them to be good people or because good people join the Rotary Club to associate with other good people?

Mormons are like the best of 1950s America. They're quality of life is something that we all could have had if we'd shut up the liberals.

That Mormonism is almost gone.

And you are seeing a confirmation bias of what you want to see.

Good for you, you've picked up some new lingo. Now work on this lesson - tossing around lingo doesn't make for an argument. Me calling you a cow doesn't make you a cow. See, mere assertion is to argument like masturbation is to sex - it makes you feel good and does nothing for anyone else.

The proper term is opinion, which you are putting out and which I was stomping down.

Your opinion is formed from confirmation bias.

Talk emprical data, if you so wish, but don't ever think your opinion is evidence.

 

[percysunshine]

.
What is the big deal? Mormonism is a voluntary system and activity. The State does not institute it.

.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Mormonism does take over the govenrment, from small to big, through its quorums running members or appointing members to office, and the group voting as a bloc whenever it gets the chance. That is the great problem in Utah politics. 90% of the legislators are LDS while less than 60% of the population is LDS.

 

[percysunshine]

Mormonism does take over the govenrment, from small to big, through its quorums running members or appointing members to office, and the group voting as a bloc whenever it gets the chance. That is the great problem in Utah politics. 90% of the legislators are LDS while less than 60% of the population is LDS.

.

So ... they are, like, community organizers.

What is wrong with that?

.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Mormonism does take over the govenrment, from small to big, through its quorums running members or appointing members to office, and the group voting as a bloc whenever it gets the chance. That is the great problem in Utah politics. 90% of the legislators are LDS while less than 60% of the population is LDS.

So what?

Why don't you turn your reformist zeal onto the NBA and transform their teams into mirror of America?