The Looming and Inevitable Crisis

[Freewill]

Of course our money is not backed by anything. It hasn't been for many years. Cash is on the way out, we agree on that.

But the problem is really simple, the govt must balance its budget, and soon. 17 trillion in debt today, over 20 trillion by the time obozo leaves office. It has to stop.

So there is just a lot of money out there that isn't hard currency. Which means that money could go away with a push of a button.

Anyway, where do we start cutting?

 

[Redfish]

Here is the sanest of articles I could find on the subject of the camps.

Is the US Army really building internment camps here? - Norfolk prepper | Examiner.com

It does appear that the HS has bought 2 billion rounds of hollow point bullets. I do wonder why.

Links are in the above site. Not saying I believe any of that but just post it for discussion. The inflation of our money supply part has to come true.

I have not seen anything on this from a legitimate source. If anyone has one, please post it.

We are not there yet on the destruction of our currency by deficit spending, we can reverse it, but it needs to be done very soon. the elections of this november may be our last chance to restore fiscal sanity to DC.

Define, "legitimate" source.

I think it can be reversed but not without pain. Pain we should have gone through in 2008 but we put it off.

I guess legitimate would be when all of the major news outlets report the same thing. The washington mud slide was reported "legitimately" for example. the Maylaysian plane disappearence was not, it was reported with theories and guesses.

Its very hard today to get the truth from any media outlets. How many rounds does the Army buy annually? the Marines, Navy, Coast Guard, Air Force? anyone know?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Most Americans are unaware that our nation goes in debt to the tune of about 200 million dollars every single hour of every single day. To combat this short fall our government prints money and they print it in the billions of dollars every single day. You do not need to be an economic expert to realize that by incorporating this philosophy you devalue your own currency. Nothing of value is backing up this huge sum of new cash. Even now countries like China, Japan, and even Germany are now avidly taking steps to get away from the US dollar because it has lost so much of it's actual value. What does this actually mean? For decades the US dollar has been the currency that has dominated the globe, If you are an international buyer for example, your purchases must be paid for in US currency, no matter if you are buying oil or grain, rubber or tobacco everything must be paid for in US dollars. But what would happen if the US dollar was no longer the currency of this standard. Experts predict that it would cause economic collapse in our nation. Inflation would soar, the dollar would become nearly worthless, everyday items we all depend upon for survival would literally be out of reach economically for nearly everyone. Wide spread looting and civil unrest would occur. But here is the really strange part, our government is already preparing for this calamity, civilian detention camps have been set up across our country to house literally millions of detainees , the Department of Homeland Security had purchased over a billion rounds of ammunition, that is enough bullets and ammo to shoot every man, woman and child in this country six times each, what do they know that we do not. President Obama has signed executive orders allowing law enforcement and the military to literally seize any or all of your assets in the event of this economic collapse. This includes your food, water, medical supplies, weapons, vehicles, almost anything and everything. This is an actual fact. What this is telling me is that they know what is about to occur, it is merely a matter of time. Very soon at our current borrowing rate our country will be unable to even pay the interest on the debt we have run up. When this happens what do you think will occur?When our dollar is devalued to a point where it is no longer recognized as the world currency standard. A crisis will occur and it will make every crisis before it look like child's play. Your money, your savings, your 401 Ks will literally become nearly worthless, trillions of dollars will be lost. The crisis is coming make no mistake, and those who are not prepared for it are doomed. Our leaders have lead us down a path of economic self destruction and we elected these folks so we are as much to blame as they are. If you do not believe me just look at our current economic policy and compare it to our national debt. It is impossible to spend your way into prosperity. This is not rocket science this is just common sense.

Ignorant rightwing demagoguery, stupidity, and nonsense.

 

[Redfish]

So there is just a lot of money out there that isn't hard currency. Which means that money could go away with a push of a button.

Anyway, where do we start cutting?

Already answered that, 25% across the board, no exceptions.

 

[Redfish]

For your information the actual locations, sizes, and design details concerning these camps is easily obtained on the internet as are Obama's executive orders concerning this pending crisis. It is now common knowledge about the purchase of one billion rounds of ammo by Homeland Security. Ask yourself this, why would they need such a massive amount of ammunition, what is the underlying intent and purpose. What are they preparing for?

If it is so easy you could have posted some facts. Conspiracies aren't always true. As far as the ammo:


GAO Investigating Homeland Security's Ammunition Purchases
There have been different reports concerning the DHS' purchases. Agency officials denied to media and lawmakers that it is stockpiling ammunition, but the Associated Press reported earlier this year the agency wanted to buy more than 1.6 billion rounds. DHS officials testified to Congress last week it only wanted to buy up to 750 million rounds.

DHS spokesman Peter Boogaard said the numbers in the news reports are misleading, because the language of the purchase said the agency needs “up to” a certain amount. The solicitation of “up to” 750 million rounds is for ammunition for training centers and law enforcement personnel over the next five years, he said.

Another five-year contract, for up to 450 million rounds, is also for law enforcement purposes, said Boogard, with the supplies for all DHS agencies except for the Coast Guard.

"With more than 100,000 armed law enforcement personnel in DHS, significant quantities of ammunition are used to support law enforcement operations, quarterly qualifications, and training, to include advanced firearms training exercises," Boogaard told said.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com GAO Investigating Homeland Security's Ammunition Purchases
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now!

So it is somewhat true maybe the amount is off a bit.

But consider 750,000,000/100,000=7500 rounds. Seems like a lot just to recertify and train. But maybe not just making conversation.

It does seem like a lot of rounds, but I wonder how many rounds DOD buys annually.

 

[Iceweasel]

So it is somewhat true maybe the amount is off a bit.

But consider 750,000,000/100,000=7500 rounds. Seems like a lot just to recertify and train.

I can't speak for the honesty of the numbers but it's supposedly a five year stash. Which makes sense, to stock up, better prices and ammo availability was hit and miss for a while. If true, it comes to 125 rounds per month on average. That is not a lot. I can burn through that in one visit to the range easily.

 

[Breakout]

Good summary but wrong in a couple of areas. All of our deficit spending is not covered by printing new money, the majority of it is covered by borrowing from foreign countries and from american citizens.

So, because countries like China hold our bonds they have a vested interest in keeping our currency valuable.

I also do not believe that there is some kind of govt conspiracy to imprison and confiscate things of value from citizens.

The more likely reason for the ammo purchases is that some in govt fear a revolution of fed up americans, who are armed.

You are partially correct, however China and many other nations now refuse to buy our bonds as they realize they are a very bad investment. Germany for example has pulled all of it's gold from the US, Japan no longer recognizes the US dollar as the global currency standard. As far as the ammo is concerned, do you realize how much ammunition this actually is? These are hollow point bullets designed to kill and do as much physical damage as possible. If there were a revolt it this country I am nearly certain our military would be called upon almost instantly and they, not law enforcement would put the revolt down in short order. Many however would be killed, armed or not. Hard to fight a tank with a hand gun or rifle. I do not believe the average American owns anti tank weapons.

If there was a revolution in the USA, I think the military would side with the people not the govt in DC. I am sure that local police, national guard, etc would side with the people. Why do you think Obama was pushing for his private army?

I tend to disagree with you on two points, the military will do what it is ordered to do. They may have misgivings but they would do as ordered. Secondly, Obama is a man not to be trusted, many no longer believe what he says, his private army would never work for the common good only for political agendas, when the crisis occurs survival will the the paramount objective even for this non existent army. Obama will be unable to provide for his army and it would self destruct.

 

[Freewill]

If it is so easy you could have posted some facts. Conspiracies aren't always true. As far as the ammo:


GAO Investigating Homeland Security's Ammunition Purchases
There have been different reports concerning the DHS' purchases. Agency officials denied to media and lawmakers that it is stockpiling ammunition, but the Associated Press reported earlier this year the agency wanted to buy more than 1.6 billion rounds. DHS officials testified to Congress last week it only wanted to buy up to 750 million rounds.

DHS spokesman Peter Boogaard said the numbers in the news reports are misleading, because the language of the purchase said the agency needs “up to” a certain amount. The solicitation of “up to” 750 million rounds is for ammunition for training centers and law enforcement personnel over the next five years, he said.

Another five-year contract, for up to 450 million rounds, is also for law enforcement purposes, said Boogard, with the supplies for all DHS agencies except for the Coast Guard.

"With more than 100,000 armed law enforcement personnel in DHS, significant quantities of ammunition are used to support law enforcement operations, quarterly qualifications, and training, to include advanced firearms training exercises," Boogaard told said.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com GAO Investigating Homeland Security's Ammunition Purchases
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now!

So it is somewhat true maybe the amount is off a bit.

But consider 750,000,000/100,000=7500 rounds. Seems like a lot just to recertify and train. But maybe not just making conversation.

It does seem like a lot of rounds, but I wonder how many rounds DOD buys annually.

Why does the DHS security need any rounds? Why do they have to have their own army when there are other departments that have the same type of personnel? I am not even sure I now understand the reasoning for the DHS. Why couldn't the FBI or the CIA handle what they are doing? Seems like it would be a great cost savings to get rid of them.

 

[Breakout]

If it is so easy you could have posted some facts. Conspiracies aren't always true. As far as the ammo:


GAO Investigating Homeland Security's Ammunition Purchases
There have been different reports concerning the DHS' purchases. Agency officials denied to media and lawmakers that it is stockpiling ammunition, but the Associated Press reported earlier this year the agency wanted to buy more than 1.6 billion rounds. DHS officials testified to Congress last week it only wanted to buy up to 750 million rounds.

DHS spokesman Peter Boogaard said the numbers in the news reports are misleading, because the language of the purchase said the agency needs “up to” a certain amount. The solicitation of “up to” 750 million rounds is for ammunition for training centers and law enforcement personnel over the next five years, he said.

Another five-year contract, for up to 450 million rounds, is also for law enforcement purposes, said Boogard, with the supplies for all DHS agencies except for the Coast Guard.

"With more than 100,000 armed law enforcement personnel in DHS, significant quantities of ammunition are used to support law enforcement operations, quarterly qualifications, and training, to include advanced firearms training exercises," Boogaard told said.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com GAO Investigating Homeland Security's Ammunition Purchases
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now!

So it is somewhat true maybe the amount is off a bit.

But consider 750,000,000/100,000=7500 rounds. Seems like a lot just to recertify and train. But maybe not just making conversation.

It does seem like a lot of rounds, but I wonder how many rounds DOD buys annually.

I do not actually know the answer to that question, but you can believe it is an astronomical number for certain.

 

[Freewill]

So it is somewhat true maybe the amount is off a bit.

But consider 750,000,000/100,000=7500 rounds. Seems like a lot just to recertify and train.

I can't speak for the honesty of the numbers but it's supposedly a five year stash. Which makes sense, to stock up, better prices and ammo availability was hit and miss for a while. If true, it comes to 125 rounds per month on average. That is not a lot. I can burn through that in one visit to the range easily.

You go to the range for fun, we are just certifying these people. Why do you think that the DHS needs its own army, for lack of a better word?

 

[Freewill]

Already answered that, 25% across the board, no exceptions.

25 percent cut in the military?

 

[Iceweasel]

I tend to disagree with you on two points, the military will do what it is ordered to do. They may have misgivings but they would do as ordered.

Complete horseshit. They all have family members and friends that aren't military and most of them are more constitutionally minded than blind followers. The military ain't going to follow orders against the US citizens, it's who they are defending.

Secondly, Obama is a man not to be trusted, many no longer believe what he says, his private army would never work for the common good only for political agendas, when the crisis occurs survival will the the paramount objective even for this non existent army. Obama will be unable to provide for his army and it would self destruct.

Obama doesn't have a private army and anything even hinting along those lines would kill Democrat hopes for a long long time.

 

[Breakout]

So it is somewhat true maybe the amount is off a bit.

But consider 750,000,000/100,000=7500 rounds. Seems like a lot just to recertify and train.

I can't speak for the honesty of the numbers but it's supposedly a five year stash. Which makes sense, to stock up, better prices and ammo availability was hit and miss for a while. If true, it comes to 125 rounds per month on average. That is not a lot. I can burn through that in one visit to the range easily.

I too am a gun owner and an avid sportsman. I have several hundred rounds of ammunition for various weapons I own. But not enough to defend myself against an army of well equipped soldiers. I would most assuredly loose that confrontation. I would be grossly outnumbered and out gunned.

 

[Redfish]

You are partially correct, however China and many other nations now refuse to buy our bonds as they realize they are a very bad investment. Germany for example has pulled all of it's gold from the US, Japan no longer recognizes the US dollar as the global currency standard. As far as the ammo is concerned, do you realize how much ammunition this actually is? These are hollow point bullets designed to kill and do as much physical damage as possible. If there were a revolt it this country I am nearly certain our military would be called upon almost instantly and they, not law enforcement would put the revolt down in short order. Many however would be killed, armed or not. Hard to fight a tank with a hand gun or rifle. I do not believe the average American owns anti tank weapons.

If there was a revolution in the USA, I think the military would side with the people not the govt in DC. I am sure that local police, national guard, etc would side with the people. Why do you think Obama was pushing for his private army?

I tend to disagree with you on two points, the military will do what it is ordered to do. They may have misgivings but they would do as ordered. Secondly, Obama is a man not to be trusted, many no longer believe what he says, his private army would never work for the common good only for political agendas, when the crisis occurs survival will the the paramount objective even for this non existent army. Obama will be unable to provide for his army and it would self destruct.

Look at the coups that have taken place in the past, its always the military that takes control after the govt is overthrown. Most of our soldiers today are conservative and right wing. They would not follow orders to kill americans, neither would the local police and national guard.

The american people are pissed, tired of being lied to, tired of being overtaxed, tired of seeing their hard earned money wasted by govt, tired of being told how to live, tired of watching elected reps get rich be stealing and legalized bribery (lobbying), tired of the double standard that allows congress to deal in insider trading that is illegal for everyone else.

the military would be on our side if it came to a revolution, I have absolutely no doubt about that.

 

[Iceweasel]

You go to the range for fun, we are just certifying these people. Why do you think that the DHS needs its own army, for lack of a better word?

Anyone using a firearm for a job needs to be better at shooting than me. As to why DHS needs 100,000 Officers, that's a different question but it isn't enough to do jack shit against the many millions of armed citizens. It's one of the reasons the right is so gung ho on the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Redfish]

25 percent cut in the military?

yes, what do you think "across the board, no exceptions" means?

 

[Redfish]

So it is somewhat true maybe the amount is off a bit.

But consider 750,000,000/100,000=7500 rounds. Seems like a lot just to recertify and train.

I can't speak for the honesty of the numbers but it's supposedly a five year stash. Which makes sense, to stock up, better prices and ammo availability was hit and miss for a while. If true, it comes to 125 rounds per month on average. That is not a lot. I can burn through that in one visit to the range easily.

I too am a gun owner and an avid sportsman. I have several hundred rounds of ammunition for various weapons I own. But not enough to defend myself against an army of well equipped soldiers. I would most assuredly loose that confrontation. I would be grossly outnumbered and out gunned.

you have it wrong, the army would show up at your door, and say " come on, join us, here is an M-16, lets go"

 

[eflatminor]

But, what to do?

Can't cut the military.

Sure we can. We just have to ween other countries off relying on us for their protection. We could protect our borders, far better than we do currently, for a fraction of what we spend playing the world's policemen. I'm not saying we do this overnight, but for example, it's time South Korea, one of the richest nations in Asia, begin to protect their own damn country.

Cant' cut federal education funding.

Not only can we, we should. First, the idea of pulling money from the states, running it through a federal bureaucracy, and dolling it out right back to the states is insane. It's inefficient and does more harm than good to the market for education. Secondly, there isn't a damn thing in the Federal government's enumerated powers about education. That means it's also unconstitutional.

Don't 'cut' federal education funding. End it immediately.

Can't cut SS.

We could sure amend what it means to qualify for it. Remember SS started out as a means to help widows that had lived past age of life expectancy. Certainly it would be reasonable to up the retirement age. That alone would save a ton of money and get SS one step closer to what it was supposed to be.

Further, we could make it VOLUNTARY. But that would be keeping with the ideals of a free country...and we can't have that, can we?

Can't cut welfare.

Sure we can. We can limit the time someone can receive it. We can amend the rules to remove incentives for people to have children that aren't ready to have children. We can ensure those in the country illegally don't get it.

Entitlements are the biggest part of the federal budget. We most certainly can reduce spending there.

We could cut all of the traveling that the Antoinette Obama family does and it wouldn't make a dent.

But taken together with the THOUSANDS of other expenditures that on their own don't make a dent...they would make a big dent! End foreign aid!

Consider the Department of Agriculture. Why do we even have a Department of Agriculture? It doesn't produce food, farmers do. It is not mandated by the Constitution, and many of its activities might be unconstitutional. For fiscal 2013, it is estimated that the Agriculture Department will spend about $155 billion and make loans of another $22 billion and additional loan guarantees of $34 billion.

The biggest single item in the Agriculture budget is food stamps and other food subsidies ($110 billion). These are welfare payments. Shouldn't they be under the Department Health and Human Services? The next biggest items are the farm subsidies ($29 billion). Why are we subsidizing farmers? They have much higher than average incomes and much wealth in land and equipment, and most of our food is grown on large farms.

Or how about we end all the unnecessary alphabet soup of agencies? Here's a list we could end today...and this is just a start:

Administration for Children and Families (ACF)
Administration on Aging (AoA)
African Development Foundation
Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ)
Agricultural Marketing Service
Agricultural Research Service
Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (Treasury)
AMTRAK (National Railroad Passenger Corporation)
Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service
Appalachian Regional Commission
Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board
Arctic Research Commission
Arms Control and International Security
Arthritis and Musculoskeletal Interagency Coordinating Committee
Barry M. Goldwater Scholarship and Excellence in Education Foundation
Bonneville Power Administration
Botanic Garden
Broadcasting Board of Governors
Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
Bureau of Industry and Security
Bureau of International Labor Affairs
Bureau of Justice Statistics
Bureau of Labor Statistics
Bureau of Land Management (BLM)
Bureau of Public Debt
Bureau of Reclamation
Bureau of Transportation Statistics
Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion
Chief Acquisition Officers Council
Chief Financial Officers Council
Chief Human Capital Officers Council
Chief Information Officers Council
Citizens’ Stamp Advisory Committee
Commission of Fine Arts
Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (Helsinki Commission)
Committee for the Implementation of Textile Agreements
Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS)
Community Planning and Development
Coordinating Council on Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention
Corporation for National and Community Service
Council of Economic Advisers
Council on Environmental Quality
National Institute of Food and Agriculture
Denali Commission
Department of Commerce (DOC)
Department of Education (ED)
Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD)
Department of Labor (DOL)
Domestic Policy Council
Economic, Business and Agricultural Affairs (State Department)
Economic Adjustment Office
Economic Development Administration
Economic Research Service
Economics & Statistics Administration
Election Assistance Commission
Elementary and Secondary Education
Endangered Species Committee
Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy
Energy Information Administration
Environmental Management (Energy Department)
Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity
Federal Accounting Standards Advisory Board
Federal Citizen Information Center (FCIC)
Federal Consulting Group
Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council
Federal Geographic Data Committee
Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight
Federal Housing Finance Board
Federal Interagency Committee for the Management of Noxious and Exotic Weeds
Federal Interagency Committee on Education
Federal Interagency Council on Statistical Policy
Federal Laboratory Consortium for Technology Transfer
Federal Labor Relations Authority
Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board
Federal Transit Administration
Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission
Financial Management Service (Treasury Department)
Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, National Commission
Fish and Wildlife Service
Food, Nutrition and Consumer Services
Foreign Agricultural Service
Foreign Claims Settlement Commission
Fossil Energy
Fulbright Foreign Scholarship Board
Government National Mortgage Association
Grain Inspection, Packers and Stockyards Administration
Health Resources and Services Administration
Helsinki Commission (Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe)
Indian Arts and Crafts Board
Information Resource Management College
Innovation and Improvement Office
Institute of Education Sciences
Institute of Peace
Interagency Alternative Dispute Resolution Working Group
Interagency Council on Homelessness
Inter-American Foundation
International Broadcasting Bureau (IBB)
Japan-United States Friendship Commission
John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts
Joint Board for the Enrollment of Actuaries
Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies
Joint Fire Science Program
Lead Hazard Control (Housing and Urban Development Department)
Legal Services Corporation
Marine Mammal Commission
Marketing and Regulatory Programs (Agriculture Department)
Medicare Payment Advisory Commission
Merit Systems Protection Board
Migratory Bird Conservation Commission
Millennium Challenge Corporation
Minerals Management Service
Minority Business Development Agency
Mississippi River Commission
Multifamily Housing Office
National Agricultural Statistics Service
National AIDS Policy Office
National Bipartisan Commission on the Future of Medicare
National Capital Planning Commission
National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform
National Drug Intelligence Center
National Economic Council
National Endowment for the Arts
National Endowment for the Humanities
National Gallery of Art
National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
National Institute of Food and Agriculture
National Institute for Literacy
National Institutes of Health (NIH)
National Labor Relations Board
National Science Foundation
Natural Resources Conservation Service
Northwest Power Planning Council
Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight
Office of Government Ethics
Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP)
Office of Science and Technology Policy
Office of Thrift Supervision
Open World Leadership Center
Overseas Private Investment Corporation
Pardon Attorney Office
Peace Corps
Policy Development and Research (Housing and Urban Development Department)
Political Affairs (State Department)
Postsecondary Education
Presidio Trust
Public and Indian Housing
Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs (State Department)
Radio and TV Marti (Español)
Railroad Retirement Board
Regulatory Information Service Center
Rehabilitation Services Administration (Education Department)
Research, Education and Economics (Agriculture Department)
Research and Innovative Technology Administration (Transportation Department)
Risk Management Agency (Agriculture Department)
Rural Business and Cooperative Programs
Rural Development
Rural Housing Service
Rural Utilities Service
Saint Lawrence Seaway Development Corporation
Science Office (Energy Department)
Social Security Advisory Board
State Justice Institute
Stennis Center for Public Service
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
Surface Transportation Board
Susquehanna River Basin Commission
Taxpayer Advocacy Panel
U.S. Mission to the United Nations
U.S. Trade and Development Agency
Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences
Vocational and Adult Education
White House Commission on Presidential Scholars
White House Commission on the National Moment of Remembrance
Women’s Bureau (Labor Department)
Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars

Bottom, we sure as hell can live within our means. We simply choose not to.

 

[eflatminor]

And if you want an actual plan to cut spending, a beautiful one exists. It's called the Mack Penny Plan. It's beauty is in its simplicity:

"The Mack Penny Plan would balance the federal budget in eight years by cutting one penny out of every federal dollar spent for six years and capping spending at 18% of GDP beginning in the seventh year. If Congress fails to make the necessary cuts, the plan triggers automatic, across-the-board cuts to meet the yearly caps."

That's it. This at least get's up to stop piling deficits on top our current debt. We'd still have the debt to deal with, but at least it wouldn't be getting worse.

 

[Breakout]

If there was a revolution in the USA, I think the military would side with the people not the govt in DC. I am sure that local police, national guard, etc would side with the people. Why do you think Obama was pushing for his private army?

I tend to disagree with you on two points, the military will do what it is ordered to do. They may have misgivings but they would do as ordered. Secondly, Obama is a man not to be trusted, many no longer believe what he says, his private army would never work for the common good only for political agendas, when the crisis occurs survival will the the paramount objective even for this non existent army. Obama will be unable to provide for his army and it would self destruct.

Look at the coups that have taken place in the past, its always the military that takes control after the govt is overthrown. Most of our soldiers today are conservative and right wing. They would not follow orders to kill americans, neither would the local police and national guard.

The american people are pissed, tired of being lied to, tired of being overtaxed, tired of seeing their hard earned money wasted by govt, tired of being told how to live, tired of watching elected reps get rich be stealing and legalized bribery (lobbying), tired of the double standard that allows congress to deal in insider trading that is illegal for everyone else.

the military would be on our side if it came to a revolution, I have absolutely no doubt about that.

I have just one question for you. Were you ever in the military? Rest assured they would do as ordered without question. We have the finest military on the planet, they are highly trained and well disciplined, I would venture to guess they would do exactly as instructed to do.