The Israelites

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by The Irish Ram, Sep 26, 2012.

  1. The Irish Ram
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    The Irish Ram LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough

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    Do the Jews deserve a home?
    Obama and his new bff's, the Arab Spring don't think so. The former wants to be "fair", so he would reduce Israel to a distance of eight miles across. The length of a mall road in Detroit. The latter would like to see them "removed" altogether.
    Why doesn't anyone want Israel to have their own nation too?
     
  2. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    There are more Israelites than just the Jews.
     
  3. MHunterB
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    MHunterB Gold Member

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    Avatar, NO there are not - not according to Judaism, which is the religion of the Israelites.

    'Hebrews' = 'Children of Israel' = 'Jews' = 'Descendants of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel, Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel and Leah' who follow the Sinai Covenant. Since every proselyte to Judaism is known 'in Israel' as the child of Abraham and Sarah, the 'descent' need not be physical.

    The 'doctrine' on proselytes derives from the belief that ALL Jewish souls stood at Sinai to receive the Covenant - past, present, future, 'cradle' and 'convert' - and not just those whose souls were in their bodies at the time.

    I am not going to get into the differences between how Judaism and Christianity view certain texts. I am simply explaining the Jewish religious view.
     
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  4. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Jews are merely one tribe of the House of Israel. Those who descended from Judah.
     
  5. MHunterB
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    MHunterB Gold Member

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    Avatar, you may think so - but there is no member of the Jewish People who does. The word 'Jew' derives from the *Kingdom* of Judah - which contained mostly members of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi. All Kohanim are Levites and only Levites. So the idea that 'Jews' are only 'Judah-ites' is inaccurate (ie, wrong). It's even more wrong when one considers that by the time of the Roman genocide in Judea, there was a large and very active Jewish community in the Diaspora - Alexandria, Babylon, Rome (where about 1/10th the city's population were Jews), Greece. And those Jewish people had not necessarily come from *only* the tribe or even the Kingdom of Judah.

    The Greek word 'proselyte' in fact initially meant 'a convert to Judaism' because there were so many Greeks converting at one time.

    I haven't got the time just now to go and look all of that up for you, but you might try consulting The Jewish Encyclopedia online, or 'Judaism 101' or any number of other sites. OR you could simply look up a bona fide Jewish congregation (NOT MJ!!!!) and email their rabbi to inquire.
     
  6. GHook93
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    GHook93 Aristotle

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    No there was not! There were more Caananites, but Israelites are the only ones left!
     
  7. MHunterB
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    MHunterB Gold Member

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    BTW, where in Philly are you? I grew up in Overbrook Park some 40+ years ago.
     
  8. MHunterB
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    MHunterB Gold Member

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    The Jewish People seems to have historically been composed of about 4 different groups(from the archaeology, not specifically from the Hebrew Bible):

    1) Abraham & Co from the Chaldees
    2) 'Midianites' who are recorded as relatives of Abraham
    3) Escaping Egyptian slaves (that 'mixed multitude')
    4) SOME of the 'indigenous' Caananites

    But it does not matter. Because according to Jewish 'doctrine', every Jewish soul stood at Sinai to receive the Covenant - not merely the individuals who were present in the flesh.

    Which is why proselytes are regarded as being the actual descendants of Abraham and Sarah: their desire to be part of the Jewish People is 'evidence' that they have 'a Jewish soul'. (which soul is of course no better nor worse than any other).
     
  9. Aristotle
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    Aristotle Senior Member

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    Every human deserves an opportunity to have a susained way of life. But since Israel has built settlements past the 1947 borders their motives are in question.
     
  10. The Irish Ram
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    The Irish Ram LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough

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    So what should Israel's boundaries be?

    In 1948 the British Mandate government conducted an ownership survey of Palestine. It looked like this:
    71.2% British land.
    8.6% Jews
    3.3% owned by Arabs
    16% owned by non residents.

    The land that was owned by the British government was transferred by international law, to Israel.
    Shouldn't the Jews be allowed to build on their own property? It's not like they displaced anyone there.
    The Arab people left on their own, to get out of Egypt's way in 1948 in what Egypt believed was going to be the quick destruction the new Nation of Israel.

    The Arabs own 99% of the Middle East. Why is it that they couldn't find a sandy knoll for their brothers that exiled themselves from Israel?
     

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