The insanity of right wing patriotism

[Billo_Really]

I always get a kick out of lunatics on the right calling someone "anti-American", when I look at the things they support, like Constitutional rights.

Here is the rights' version of what Constitutional rights are:

The government’s indefinite detention policy –

If you are an enemy combatant or a threat to national security, we will detain you indefinitely until the war is over

It is a perpetual war, which will never be over

Neither you or your lawyers have a right to see the evidence against you, nor to face your accusers

But trust us, we know you are an enemy combatant and a threat to national security

We may torture you (and try to cover up the fact that you were tortured), because you are an enemy combatant, and so basic rights of a prisoner guaranteed by the Geneva Convention don’t apply to you

Since you admitted that you’re a bad guy (while trying to tell us whatever you think we want to hear to make the torture stop), it proves that we should hold you in indefinite detention​

See how that works?

Is this what many of them consider American values? It must be, because anytime someone voices their criticism of these policies, they're attacked for being anti-American.

My God, you people are fuckin' nuts and not anywhere close to what an American believes!

 

[martybegan]

I always get a kick out of lunatics on the right calling someone "anti-American", when I look at the things they support, like Constitutional rights.

Here is the rights' version of what Constitutional rights are:

The government’s indefinite detention policy –

If you are an enemy combatant or a threat to national security, we will detain you indefinitely until the war is over

It is a perpetual war, which will never be over

Neither you or your lawyers have a right to see the evidence against you, nor to face your accusers

But trust us, we know you are an enemy combatant and a threat to national security

We may torture you (and try to cover up the fact that you were tortured), because you are an enemy combatant, and so basic rights of a prisoner guaranteed by the Geneva Convention don’t apply to you

Since you admitted that you’re a bad guy (while trying to tell us whatever you think we want to hear to make the torture stop), it proves that we should hold you in indefinite detention​

See how that works?

Is this what many of them consider American values? It must be, because anytime someone voices their criticism of these policies, they're attacked for being anti-American.

My God, you people are fuckin' nuts and not anywhere close to what an American believes!

Only if you are not an American Citizen. If you are a Citizen you get full due process. If you are not a citizen and not part of a national army or follow the rules for insurgents, you are an unlawful combatant and your ass is grass.

 

[Billo_Really]

Only if you are not an American Citizen. If you are a Citizen you get full due process. If you are not a citizen and not part of a national army or follow the rules for insurgents, you are an unlawful combatant and your ass is grass.

Tell that to Jose Padilla.

 

[Mad Scientist]

LoinBoy conveniently forgets that Obama signed the NDAA as well as a 4 year extension of the Patriot Act.

 

[martybegan]

Only if you are not an American Citizen. If you are a Citizen you get full due process. If you are not a citizen and not part of a national army or follow the rules for insurgents, you are an unlawful combatant and your ass is grass.

Tell that to Jose Padilla.

And he was moved to a civillian court and convicted. The government was sued and held accountable, so next time if its an American citizen they know they have to go through federal courts.

 

[theHawk]

Another shitbag liberal crashes and burns.

 

[Billo_Really]

And he was moved to a civillian court and convicted. The government was sued and held accountable, so next time if its an American citizen they know they have to go through federal courts.

It still doesn't change the fact that he was denied his Constitutional rights for 2 years, not even permitted to speak with an attorney, not charged with a crime and tortured regularly. And the only reason they finally charged him, was because the case was going to go to SCOTUS and the government didn't want to see that happen. It's true he was convicted, but not of the crime they originally said he did.

In all honesty, he probably is a skumbag, who deserves to be in jail. But he's also an American citizen and what happened to him, can happen to anyone. That's why I say, anyone who is not outraged over this, doesn't really care about this country at all.

 

[Billo_Really]

Another shitbag liberal crashes and burns.

WTF are you talking about?

 

[Billo_Really]

LoinBoy conveniently forgets that Obama signed the NDAA as well as a 4 year extension of the Patriot Act.

Why do you say I forgot?

Those are 2 of the reasons I withdrew my support for him over 18 months ago.

 

[William Joyce]

Right-wing patriotism might be insane.

But the thing about left-wing patriotism is, it doesn't exist.

 

[rdean]

People that shout "let him die" and applaud executions are NOT patriots. They are "kooks". It's just there are so many of them and they embarrass me by being mostly white.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I always get a kick out of lunatics on the right calling someone "anti-American", when I look at the things they support, like Constitutional rights.

Here is the rights' version of what Constitutional rights are:

The government’s indefinite detention policy –

If you are an enemy combatant or a threat to national security, we will detain you indefinitely until the war is over

It is a perpetual war, which will never be over

Neither you or your lawyers have a right to see the evidence against you, nor to face your accusers

But trust us, we know you are an enemy combatant and a threat to national security

We may torture you (and try to cover up the fact that you were tortured), because you are an enemy combatant, and so basic rights of a prisoner guaranteed by the Geneva Convention don’t apply to you

Since you admitted that you’re a bad guy (while trying to tell us whatever you think we want to hear to make the torture stop), it proves that we should hold you in indefinite detention​

See how that works?

Is this what many of them consider American values? It must be, because anytime someone voices their criticism of these policies, they're attacked for being anti-American.

My God, you people are fuckin' nuts and not anywhere close to what an American believes!

Link to this supposed doctrine? Or admit you made it up.

 

[Ariux]

Right Wing Zionists are not true patriots, except to Israel.

 

[California Girl]

I always get a kick out of lunatics on the right calling someone "anti-American", when I look at the things they support, like Constitutional rights.

Here is the rights' version of what Constitutional rights are:

The government’s indefinite detention policy –

If you are an enemy combatant or a threat to national security, we will detain you indefinitely until the war is over

It is a perpetual war, which will never be over

Neither you or your lawyers have a right to see the evidence against you, nor to face your accusers

But trust us, we know you are an enemy combatant and a threat to national security

We may torture you (and try to cover up the fact that you were tortured), because you are an enemy combatant, and so basic rights of a prisoner guaranteed by the Geneva Convention don’t apply to you

Since you admitted that you’re a bad guy (while trying to tell us whatever you think we want to hear to make the torture stop), it proves that we should hold you in indefinite detention​

See how that works?

Is this what many of them consider American values? It must be, because anytime someone voices their criticism of these policies, they're attacked for being anti-American.

My God, you people are fuckin' nuts and not anywhere close to what an American believes!

Psssst, the thing about America is that we don't all believe the same thing. That appears to foreign to the hacks on the left. No one American can say what 'an American believes' because we're all individuals... at least, conservatives are... I used to think liberals were individuals... but I think I may have misjudged them.

 

[martybegan]

And he was moved to a civillian court and convicted. The government was sued and held accountable, so next time if its an American citizen they know they have to go through federal courts.

It still doesn't change the fact that he was denied his Constitutional rights for 2 years, not even permitted to speak with an attorney, not charged with a crime and tortured regularly. And the only reason they finally charged him, was because the case was going to go to SCOTUS and the government didn't want to see that happen. It's true he was convicted, but not of the crime they originally said he did.

In all honesty, he probably is a skumbag, who deserves to be in jail. But he's also an American citizen and what happened to him, can happen to anyone. That's why I say, anyone who is not outraged over this, doesn't really care about this country at all.

Quite frankly after the 9/11 attacks I'm suprised the US, both the government and the people didnt react more severly than they did. The US suffers from "two ocean" syndrome, where we see our lack of hostile borders as a safety barrier. The attack on that day brought that crashing down. A more militaristic society would have basically declared all out war on the rest of the world, but we didnt do that.

The Padilla issue was handled as it should have been handled via the courts. The time it took is the nature of the process. At least now we know how to handle that situation so it wont happen again.

 

[whitehall]

How long can you blame it on Bush? Don't look now loinboy but the radical left is in power. Why not ask Hussein Obama about it?

 

[Billo_Really]

Quite frankly after the 9/11 attacks I'm suprised the US, both the government and the people didnt react more severly than they did. The US suffers from "two ocean" syndrome, where we see our lack of hostile borders as a safety barrier. The attack on that day brought that crashing down. A more militaristic society would have basically declared all out war on the rest of the world, but we didnt do that.

We knew the attacks were coming 8 months before they happened and we did nothing about it.

The Padilla issue was handled as it should have been handled via the courts.

He wasn't in a courtroom until a couple years after his arrest. He couldn't even talk to a lawyer or be told what he was being held in custody for. Do you really think that's how US citizens should be treated? Where does it say in our Constitution we can be held without charges?

The time it took is the nature of the process.

No it isn't. Due process of law is being arraigned within 48 hours and charged with a crime. In Padilla's case, that didn't happen for 2 years. Normally, you have to waive your right to a speedy trial to get into a situation like that, but that has to be done in court.

At least now we know how to handle that situation so it wont happen again.

Ya know, I've never been a 9/11 Truther, but I'm beginning to have my doubts. Because some claims really push the bounds of reality. Like the governments account of what happened that day in September 2001:

A few Saudi Arabians without any government’s backing or that of any intelligence service outwitted not only the CIA and the FBI but all 16 US intelligence agencies, even the Defense Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency, together with the intelligence agencies of all of Washington’s NATO allies and Israel’s Mossad, which has infiltrated every radical Muslim group. These humble Saudis of no known distinction or powers also simultaneously outwitted the National Security Council, NORAD, the Pentagon, Air Traffic Control, and caused Airport Security to fail four times in one hour on the same morning.

In other words, every part of America’s defenses failed at the same moment.

That's getting just a little too hard to believe.

 

[Billo_Really]

How long can you blame it on Bush? Don't look now loinboy but the radical left is in power. Why not ask Hussein Obama about it?

Bush will be blamed for everything he is responsible for. There is no statute of limitations on personal accountability.

Obama's not a leftist and he's not a liberal. His foreign policy is still the neocon agenda. GITMO never closed. The wars didn't end. No one was prosecuted for war crimes. And warrantless wiretapping has been expanded. Our Constitution is still being shit on. We've been stripped of our civil rights. And anyone of us can be murdered by a drone strike if the despot in Washington so decides.

If you support that shit, fuck you!

 

[martybegan]

Quite frankly after the 9/11 attacks I'm suprised the US, both the government and the people didnt react more severly than they did. The US suffers from "two ocean" syndrome, where we see our lack of hostile borders as a safety barrier. The attack on that day brought that crashing down. A more militaristic society would have basically declared all out war on the rest of the world, but we didnt do that.

We knew the attacks were coming 8 months before they happened and we did nothing about it.

The Padilla issue was handled as it should have been handled via the courts.

He wasn't in a courtroom until a couple years after his arrest. He couldn't even talk to a lawyer or be told what he was being held in custody for. Do you really think that's how US citizens should be treated? Where does it say in our Constitution we can be held without charges?

No it isn't. Due process of law is being arraigned within 48 hours and charged with a crime. In Padilla's case, that didn't happen for 2 years. Normally, you have to waive your right to a speedy trial to get into a situation like that, but that has to be done in court.

At least now we know how to handle that situation so it wont happen again.

Ya know, I've never been a 9/11 Truther, but I'm beginning to have my doubts. Because some claims really push the bounds of reality. Like the governments account of what happened that day in September 2001:

A few Saudi Arabians without any government’s backing or that of any intelligence service outwitted not only the CIA and the FBI but all 16 US intelligence agencies, even the Defense Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency, together with the intelligence agencies of all of Washington’s NATO allies and Israel’s Mossad, which has infiltrated every radical Muslim group. These humble Saudis of no known distinction or powers also simultaneously outwitted the National Security Council, NORAD, the Pentagon, Air Traffic Control, and caused Airport Security to fail four times in one hour on the same morning.

In other words, every part of America’s defenses failed at the same moment.

That's getting just a little too hard to believe.

Yes there was intelligence that they might try this, there was probably also 100 other memos stating 100 other threats that have never seen the light of day. its kind of easy to cherry pick the one that was "right" after the fact, and even then it said that there was some type of attack happening.

There was never a letter saying, you know, sometime in september 2011 they will fly a bunch of planes into NY and Washington, and maybe we should have some jets in the air right now.

Look back at Pearl Harbor for the last part. A supposedly dullard adversary got an entire fleet withing 150 miles of our biggest base in the Pacific, and got away scott clean. Sometimes the other side gets lucky.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I always get a kick out of lunatics on the right calling someone "anti-American", when I look at the things they support, like Constitutional rights.

Here is the rights' version of what Constitutional rights are:

The government’s indefinite detention policy –

If you are an enemy combatant or a threat to national security, we will detain you indefinitely until the war is over

It is a perpetual war, which will never be over

Neither you or your lawyers have a right to see the evidence against you, nor to face your accusers

But trust us, we know you are an enemy combatant and a threat to national security

We may torture you (and try to cover up the fact that you were tortured), because you are an enemy combatant, and so basic rights of a prisoner guaranteed by the Geneva Convention don’t apply to you

Since you admitted that you’re a bad guy (while trying to tell us whatever you think we want to hear to make the torture stop), it proves that we should hold you in indefinite detention​

See how that works?

Is this what many of them consider American values? It must be, because anytime someone voices their criticism of these policies, they're attacked for being anti-American.

My God, you people are fuckin' nuts and not anywhere close to what an American believes!

Only if you are not an American Citizen. If you are a Citizen you get full due process. If you are not a citizen and not part of a national army or follow the rules for insurgents, you are an unlawful combatant and your ass is grass.

The NDAA 2012 took any due process American citizens had.