The insanity of right wing patriotism

[M14 Shooter]

An American citizen captured as a POW also has no right to trial.
Now, he may be tried for treason, but he can be held indefinitely without trial as a POW.

And that's the point I'm making with this thread.
Supporting reasons to take away a US citizens civil rights, is not patriotism.

Not sure how this is a response to what I said.
Not every US citizen held by the government - has- the right to trial, as exampled above.
Given that, you cannot take away his right to trial.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Care to explain that in a little more detail, you punkass little bitch?

You planning a trip to Pakistan any time soon?

 

[Billo_Really]

No, that is not at all what you said. You claimed he was denied a lawyer and never charged.

Are you on crack? I didn't say that at all. If you think I did, then lets see it. Pony up the evidence, or shut your god-damn mouth, you fuckin' liar! You're making shit up!

You put no time frame on it.

Oh yes I did. In every post I made a reference to it, I framed it within the 2 year window.

 

[Billo_Really]

You planning a trip to Pakistan any time soon?

That's what you call an explanation? More bullshit innuendo's?

 

[Billo_Really]

Not sure how this is a response to what I said.
Not every US citizen held by the government - has- the right to trial, as exampled above.
Given that, you cannot take away his right to trial.

I see your point on the POW issue and it is a valid one.

But our rights are being systematically stripped from us with all these terror laws.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Are you on crack? I didn't say that at all. If you think I did, then lets see it. Pony up the evidence, or shut your god-damn mouth, you fuckin' liar! You're making shit up!

Lying skunk.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...ity-of-right-wing-patriotism.html#post5869621

Oh yes I did. In every post I made a reference to it, I framed it within the 2 year window.

Lying pig.

 

[Uncensored2008]

That's what you call an explanation? More bullshit innuendo's?

Come on Loincloth, you going to go learn advanced Jihad for your idol, Allah?

That's why you're so worried, you might well end up in a cell next to Jose Padilla, seeing how you share his beliefs.

 

[Billo_Really]

Lying skunk.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...ity-of-right-wing-patriotism.html#post5869621

That's not proof! That's just me reminding another poster of the Padilla case.

What a fuckin' dumbass!

So, I'm still waiting for your proof.

Lying pig.

Show the post where I didn't do that.

 

[Billo_Really]

Come on Loincloth, you going to go learn advanced Jihad for your idol, Allah?

That's why you're so worried, you might well end up in a cell next to Jose Padilla, seeing how you share his beliefs.

More dumbass drive-by's.

 

[NonCorporeal]

How's Obama's NDAA going, OP?

 

[Uncensored2008]

That's not proof! That's just me reminding another poster of the Padilla case.

In response to that poster noting that due process is followed.

You, as a Muslim Supremacist, have attempted to portray the terrorists as victims.

What a fuckin' dumbass!

What a lying Muslim. (Redundant.)

So, I'm still waiting for your proof.

Asked and answered.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Not sure how this is a response to what I said.
Not every US citizen held by the government - has- the right to trial, as exampled above.
Given that, you cannot take away his right to trial.

I see your point on the POW issue and it is a valid one.

Just so we're clear that there -are- instances where US citizens can be, constitutionally, held indefinitely w/o ever going to trial.

 

[Annie]

Only if you are not an American Citizen. If you are a Citizen you get full due process. If you are not a citizen and not part of a national army or follow the rules for insurgents, you are an unlawful combatant and your ass is grass.

Tell that to Jose Padilla.

Has Obama changed that? Where's the hope & change, emphasis on change?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Has Obama changed that? Where's the hope & change, emphasis on change?

The courts changed it, sort of.

Padilla was held for 19 months as a material witness. This meant no charges were filed but he still was detained. Sadly, this abuse has not changed and the federal government does it all the time. It's an abuse of the law. A quick fix would be a law that anyone held as a material witness is granted instant immunity from any charge connected with the case they are a witness for.

Once Padilla was moved to Gitmo, things changed. He wasn't there long, about 4 months. Loincloth lies when he claims that his terrorist buddies were shipped off to not be seen again. Hamdi v. Rumsfield changed the ability to hold American citizens as unlawful combatants and Padilla was sent back to the civilian courts for trial.

 

[Billo_Really]

In response to that poster noting that due process is followed.

That's why I brought up the Padilla case, because due process was not followed.

You really are a lying sack of shit! In regards to this claim of yours...

Originally Posted by Uncensored2008
You put no time frame on it.

...I've explained my point on the Padilla case 3 times in this thread and here they are...



...in all 3 cases, I put as you say, a "time frame" on it.

So you're fuckin' full of shit, for trying to say I didn't.

Now that I've proven you deliberately lied about me, I am now going to prove you deliberately lied about the Padilla case.

Here's your claim trying to make it seem like everything happened within a year.

You are amazingly fucking stupid, even for a terrorist.

{ On August 16, 2007, a federal jury found him guilty of conspiring to kill people in an overseas jihad and to fund and support overseas terrorism. Government officials had claimed Padilla was suspected of planning to build and explode a "dirty bomb" in the United States, but he was never charged with this crime, nor convicted on such a charge.

On January 22, 2008, Padilla was sentenced by Judge Marcia G. Cooke of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida to 17 years and four months in prison. His mother, Estela Ortega Lebron, was relieved but announced that they would appeal the judgment: "You have to understand that the government was asking for 30 years to life sentence in prison. We have a chance to appeal, and in the appeal we're gonna do better."

José Padilla (prisoner) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When you lie, terrorist - try and do a better job.

You deliberately set those dates like that to deceive people. How do I know this? Why, from your own link, just one paragraph before...

Padilla was arrested in Chicago on May 8, 2002, on suspicion of plotting a radiological bomb ("dirty bomb") attack. He was detained as a material witness until June 9, 2002, when President George W. Bush designated him an enemy combatant and, arguing that he was thereby not entitled to trial in civilian courts, had him transferred to a military prison. Padilla was held for three and a half years as an "enemy combatant" and repeatedly tortured with sleep deprivation, shackling and stress positions, the administration of psychotropic drugs and solitary confinement. After pressure from civil liberties groups, the charge was dropped and his case was moved to a civilian court.

So as it stands, he was denied his civil rights for 3-1/2 years and constantly tortured during that whole time without being charged with a crime.

You're just a fuckin' liar, who's now my bitch!

 

[Billo_Really]

Has Obama changed that? Where's the hope & change, emphasis on change?

I think his hair is a lot gray'er now.

 

[Peach]

Actual service to the country is replaced with MADE IN CHINA flags, occasional parades, and the blocking out of the DEATHS brought on by those historyphobic "patriots".

 

[Peach]

And he was moved to a civillian court and convicted. The government was sued and held accountable, so next time if its an American citizen they know they have to go through federal courts.

It still doesn't change the fact that he was denied his Constitutional rights for 2 years, not even permitted to speak with an attorney, not charged with a crime and tortured regularly. And the only reason they finally charged him, was because the case was going to go to SCOTUS and the government didn't want to see that happen. It's true he was convicted, but not of the crime they originally said he did.

In all honesty, he probably is a skumbag, who deserves to be in jail. But he's also an American citizen and what happened to him, can happen to anyone. That's why I say, anyone who is not outraged over this, doesn't really care about this country at all.

Quite frankly after the 9/11 attacks I'm suprised the US, both the government and the people didnt react more severly than they did. The US suffers from "two ocean" syndrome, where we see our lack of hostile borders as a safety barrier. The attack on that day brought that crashing down. A more militaristic society would have basically declared all out war on the rest of the world, but we didnt do that.

The Padilla issue was handled as it should have been handled via the courts. The time it took is the nature of the process. At least now we know how to handle that situation so it wont happen again.

Its been done, never well.

 

[IGetItAlready]

LoinBoy conveniently forgets that Obama signed the NDAA as well as a 4 year extension of the Patriot Act.

Why do you say I forgot?

Those are 2 of the reasons I withdrew my support for him over 18 months ago.

That's terrific.
So why all the partisan bullshit against the right?
Especially in light of the current administration's playing judge, jury and executioner in the case of Anwar al-Awlaki, ALSO an American citizen?

Funny the outrage from those prone to outrage over US military operations was in that case...well, nonexistent.

 

[William Joyce]

Right-wing patriotism might be insane.

But the thing about left-wing patriotism is, it doesn't exist.

Oh, it exists. And it exists for this country.

Yes, burning the flag, spitting on the troops and chanting "death to America" all make me think the left loves America.