The Injustice of Obama raising the capital gains tax

[teapartysamurai]

what i see is you and others wanting to take the tax burden off of the wealthiest and put it on to the middle class's shoulders.

who's gonna pay taxes in the end if you eliminate the capital gains tax and eliminate the corporate income tax? who is gonna pay our debt that's accumilated over the years or just the $300 billion yearly interest payment on it, if YOU get YOUR way???

GUESS WHO???

us, the middle class will have to pay for it....

AND THAT SUCKS.....samurai.

Especially when these people like Buffet or Gates or Hilton, or Heinz who make a living off of their CAPITAL GAINS and not salary, will be paying NOTHING to the IRS....while we took the social security surplus monies collected from the WORKER who pays them and GAVE THEM to the ilks of the above for the most part, in tax breaks instead of the very people who paid the SS taxes and created the SS surplus.

you are dicking yourself and you don't even know it samurai, all for the sake of political posturing....very sad imho!

get a grip on what you are supporting

You don't get who really pays taxes no matter where the taxes are raised.

If you raises taxes on the "rich" (aka corporations) where do you think those taxes get paid?

Do you think corporations just eat that?

YOU PAY those taxes, in either higher prices, lost wages, or lost jobs.

Where do you think corps get the money to pay those taxes? From the money fairy?

They either have to raise prices, cut the wages to their employers, cut some jobs or all three. Or even worse, move jobs overseas! The money has to come from SOMEWHERE.

Corporations don't eat it. WE DO!

Now liberals in government KNOW that's the truth. They KNOW when they play class envy politics, it's really you and me that are going to pay the price. They don't care! As long as they can get people to vote for them with the promise that the "rich" are going to pay more of their "fair share," they will keep right on playing that game.

Or how about the individual rich man? You think he pays those taxes?

Read "Do as I say not as I do" and see where the rich put their money to avoid paying taxes.

And what rich am I talking about? Michael Moore, the late Ted Kennedy, Noam Chomsky, Hillary and Bill Clinton.

They talk a great game of "paying your fair share" but when it comes to THEIR MONEY, they put it places, the tax man will never be able to reach, and it's the same for all of them.

When you raise taxes on the "rich," you again HURT THE MIDDLE CLASS, because when that money gets shelved to avoid paying taxes, it's not going into the economy to fuel jobs.

No matter how you slice it, WE PAY THOSE TAXES. That's the dirty little secret liberal politicians hope you never figure out.

I have just read your posts. It is far to much logic for the liberal mind to comprehend.

I dont know how the rep points work but you deserve several along with my thanks for such informative replys Hat tip

Your thanks is more than enough!

 

[Charles_Main]

yes, according to the CBO the health care reform bill is deficit neutral (or positive, actually).

not to be confused with the last major Republican health care initiative, Medicare Part D, which was revenue-negative to the tune of 1.2T dollars - wholly, completely and totally unfunded mandate. Just lopped it onto the deficit with no regard for fiscal restraing.





Huh? The deficit was -1.25 During Bush's first year in office. It went to +3.18 his last year, it went to 9.91 under his last budget.

Yes it went to 9.91 because of of the budget spending added after the fact. Not because of the budget itself. But nice try.

 

[teapartysamurai]

what i see is you and others wanting to take the tax burden off of the wealthiest and put it on to the middle class's shoulders.

who's gonna pay taxes in the end if you eliminate the capital gains tax and eliminate the corporate income tax? who is gonna pay our debt that's accumilated over the years or just the $300 billion yearly interest payment on it, if YOU get YOUR way???

GUESS WHO???

us, the middle class will have to pay for it....

AND THAT SUCKS.....samurai.

Especially when these people like Buffet or Gates or Hilton, or Heinz who make a living off of their CAPITAL GAINS and not salary, will be paying NOTHING to the IRS....while we took the social security surplus monies collected from the WORKER who pays them and GAVE THEM to the ilks of the above for the most part, in tax breaks instead of the very people who paid the SS taxes and created the SS surplus.

you are dicking yourself and you don't even know it samurai, all for the sake of political posturing....very sad imho!

get a grip on what you are supporting

You don't get who really pays taxes no matter where the taxes are raised.

If you raises taxes on the "rich" (aka corporations) where do you think those taxes get paid?

Do you think corporations just eat that?

YOU PAY those taxes, in either higher prices, lost wages, or lost jobs.

Where do you think corps get the money to pay those taxes? From the money fairy?

They either have to raise prices, cut the wages to their employers, cut some jobs or all three. Or even worse, move jobs overseas! The money has to come from SOMEWHERE.

Corporations don't eat it. WE DO!

Now liberals in government KNOW that's the truth. They KNOW when they play class envy politics, it's really you and me that are going to pay the price. They don't care! As long as they can get people to vote for them with the promise that the "rich" are going to pay more of their "fair share," they will keep right on playing that game.

Or how about the individual rich man? You think he pays those taxes?

Read "Do as I say not as I do" and see where the rich put their money to avoid paying taxes.

And what rich am I talking about? Michael Moore, the late Ted Kennedy, Noam Chomsky, Hillary and Bill Clinton.

They talk a great game of "paying your fair share" but when it comes to THEIR MONEY, they put it places, the tax man will never be able to reach, and it's the same for all of them.

When you raise taxes on the "rich," you again HURT THE MIDDLE CLASS, because when that money gets shelved to avoid paying taxes, it's not going into the economy to fuel jobs.

No matter how you slice it, WE PAY THOSE TAXES. That's the dirty little secret liberal politicians hope you never figure out.

This is complete bullshit.

One of the things that kept the gap between rich and poor from becoming too great in the 20th century was the progressive nature of the tax structure and the estate tax.

That is why Republicans and their wealthy masters have fought so hard to get rid of both.

Reagan and the two Bushes helped them do this, and in the process created 92% of the National Debt.

Click on the link and follow the links to the Treasury website for proof....

ReaganBushDebt.org

Do you hear the class envy in this statement?

What he is saying is it keeps the rich from "getting too rich."

It's not about taxing income it's about "social justice."

And social justice is another name for SOCIALISM.

Thank you for proving me right.

 

[8537]

Yes it went to 9.91 because of of the budget spending added after the fact. Not because of the budget itself. But nice try.

No, it went to 9.91 because total revenues fell by almost 500 billion dollars, we spent TARP and we spent a couple hundred billion of the stimulus.

The single biggest factor was revenue reductions from an ongoing recession that started in December of 2007.

 

[teapartysamurai]

yes, according to the CBO the health care reform bill is deficit neutral (or positive, actually).

not to be confused with the last major Republican health care initiative, Medicare Part D, which was revenue-negative to the tune of 1.2T dollars - wholly, completely and totally unfunded mandate. Just lopped it onto the deficit with no regard for fiscal restraing.





Huh? The deficit was -1.25 During Bush's first year in office. It went to +3.18 his last year, it went to 9.91 under his last budget.

Shall we review when OBAMA STARTED SPENDING???????????

Shall we review when OBAMA DID HIS FIRST STIMULUS???????

Now you are going to claim it was Bush who did all that?

Nice try!

 

[teapartysamurai]

Play favorites???????

This is not kindergarten where everyone has to "play fair."

One person took a risk in the market, while the other decided to put his under a rock.

I mean this is not a new concept. Did you never read in the Bible about the 10 talents that the rich man distributed to his servants, and what happened to the man who simply hid his talent in the ground?

Life isn't fair.

I mean for PITY SAKE. I can't believe you think that.

This is like saying it's no fair the person who put his money in the bank got 5% interest, because the man who put his money in the mattress didn't.

Taxes are NOT a way to make things "fair."

I can't believe liberals see taxes as a way to keep someone from making more money than someone else.

As a side note, I came from a, ONCE, very wealthy family, but because my great, great, (great maybe?) grandfather didn't trust banks (to be fair, many of them did fail in those days), he kept his money in a wall in the house.

The house burned down, killing him, and leaving my family destitute.

You think that's fair? I can't get the money back.

Life isn't fair people.

what i see is you and others wanting to take the tax burden off of the wealthiest and put it on to the middle class's shoulders.

who's gonna pay taxes in the end if you eliminate the capital gains tax and eliminate the corporate income tax? who is gonna pay our debt that's accumilated over the years or just the $300 billion yearly interest payment on it, if YOU get YOUR way???

GUESS WHO???

us, the middle class will have to pay for it....

AND THAT SUCKS.....samurai.

Especially when these people like Buffet or Gates or Hilton, or Heinz who make a living off of their CAPITAL GAINS and not salary, will be paying NOTHING to the IRS....while we took the social security surplus monies collected from the WORKER who pays them and GAVE THEM to the ilks of the above for the most part, in tax breaks instead of the very people who paid the SS taxes and created the SS surplus.

you are dicking yourself and you don't even know it samurai, all for the sake of political posturing....very sad imho!

get a grip on what you are supporting

The far-right cultural elite in this country have done an incredible, amazing job over the last 30 years of convincing millions of right-leaning Americans to vote against their own self-interest. It's breathtaking to watch.

Explain why the government getting more of what WE EARN serves our "self interest?"

 

[teapartysamurai]

No, it went to 9.91 because total revenues fell by almost 500 billion dollars, we spent TARP and we spent a couple hundred billion of the stimulus.

The single biggest factor was revenue reductions from an ongoing recession that started in December of 2007.

No it went up BECAUSE OBAMA DOUBLED DOWN ON THAT WITH THE PORKULUS!

 

[8537]

Shall we review when OBAMA STARTED SPENDING???????????

Shall we review when OBAMA DID HIS FIRST STIMULUS???????

Now you are going to claim it was Bush who did all that?

Nice try!

What the fuck are you talking about? Bush's last budget decisions included TARP. You know that, right?

 

[8537]

Explain why the government getting more of what WE EARN serves our "self interest?"

You are the living, breathing embodiment of my statement. The far right cultural elite have sent you to do their bidding and you don't even know they're plucking the strings of your fiddle.

As I said, it's breathtaking to watch.

 

[8537]

No it went up BECAUSE OBAMA DOUBLED DOWN ON THAT WITH THE PORKULUS!

The stimulus package spent about 150B in that year plus the tax cut portion of the stimulus.

TARP spent 350B.

The revenue declines cost us 450B.

 

[Care4all]

Shall we review when OBAMA STARTED SPENDING???????????

Shall we review when OBAMA DID HIS FIRST STIMULUS???????

Now you are going to claim it was Bush who did all that?

Nice try!

yes, i'll take you up on that... please show some facts, the cbo or gao would be a good source to use....or any other government source with REAL numbers.....please, i welcome it.

 

[teapartysamurai]

What the fuck are you talking about? Bush's last budget decisions included TARP. You know that, right?

Tarp is now down to 89 billion after originally expected to cost us 385 billion. But let's just say it's 385 billion.

The Obama stimulus on the other hand cost 3.27 TRILLION.

All of the major news outlets are reporting that the stimulus bill voted out of conference committee last night has a meager $789 billion price tag. This number is pure fantasy. No one believes that the increased funding for programs the left loves like Head Start, Medicaid, COBRA, and the Earned Income Tax Credit is in anyway temporary. No Congress under control of the left will ever cut funding for these programs. So what is the true cost of the stimulus if these spending increases are made permanent?
Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) asked the Congressional Budget Office to estimate the impact of permanently extending the 20 most popular provisions of the stimulus bill. What did the CBO find? As you can see from the table below, the true 10 year cost of the stimulus bill $2.527 trillion in in spending with another $744 billion cost in debt servicing. Total bill for the Generational Theft Act: $3.27 trillion.

CBO numbers, I'm afraid.

True Cost of Stimulus: $3.27 Trillion | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.

This doesn't take into account how much Obama care will cost us. Your "deficit neutral" program.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Explain why the government getting more of what WE EARN serves our "self interest?"

You are the living, breathing embodiment of my statement. The far right cultural elite have sent you to do their bidding and you don't even know they're plucking the strings of your fiddle.

As I said, it's breathtaking to watch.

The far right as "sent" me to do their bidding?

 

[teapartysamurai]

yes, i'll take you up on that... please show some facts, the cbo or gao would be a good source to use....or any other government source with REAL numbers.....please, i welcome it.

CBO here you go!

True Cost of Stimulus: $3.27 Trillion

Posted February 12th, 2009 at 11:08am in Ongoing Priorities with 53 comments Print This Post


All of the major news outlets are reporting that the stimulus bill voted out of conference committee last night has a meager $789 billion price tag. This number is pure fantasy. No one believes that the increased funding for programs the left loves like Head Start, Medicaid, COBRA, and the Earned Income Tax Credit is in anyway temporary. No Congress under control of the left will ever cut funding for these programs. So what is the true cost of the stimulus if these spending increases are made permanent?

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) asked the Congressional Budget Office to estimate the impact of permanently extending the 20 most popular provisions of the stimulus bill. What did the CBO find? As you can see from the table below, the true 10 year cost of the stimulus bill $2.527 trillion in in spending with another $744 billion cost in debt servicing. Total bill for the Generational Theft Act: $3.27 trillion.

True Cost of Stimulus: $3.27 Trillion | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.

 

[8537]

CBO here you go!



True Cost of Stimulus: $3.27 Trillion | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.

S/he asked for a link from a reputable source such as the CBO, the GAO etc....

You produced a screed from Heritage that attempts to claim that we are going to permanently extend the provisions of the stimulus biil. I'm not sure if your dishonest or you got suckered. Either way, you're wrong.

Try again valey.

 

[teapartysamurai]

S/he asked for a link from a reputable source such as the CBO, the GAO etc....

You produced a screed from Heritage that attempts to claim that we are going to permanently extend the provisions of the stimulus biil. I'm not sure if your dishonest or you got suckered. Either way, you're wrong.

Try again valey.

Apparently, you have reading comprehension problems. Those are CBO numbers.

CBO: Obama stimulus harmful over long haul - Washington Times

FOXNews.com - CBO: Eight Years of Iraq War Cost Less Than Stimulus Act

I can't help it that the liberal media won't cover the truth about CBO numbers on the Obama stimulus.

Of course they won't. They can't admit the truth about the Obama stimulus. The template is, it's all Bush's fault.

 

[8537]

Apparently, you have reading comprehension problems. Those are CBO numbers.

CBO: Obama stimulus harmful over long haul - Washington Times

FOXNews.com - CBO: Eight Years of Iraq War Cost Less Than Stimulus Act

I can't help it that the liberal media won't cover the truth about CBO numbers on the Obama stimulus.

Of course they won't. They can't admit the truth about the Obama stimulus. The template is, it's all Bush's fault.

They are CBO numbers based on a scenario that batshit Ryan made up - that most facets of the stimulus bill will be permanently extended.

The CBO doesnt' get to chose what numbers it runs. if Ryan says "run the numbers if Obama starts a war against Alaska", the CBO runs those numbers. In this case, Ryan requested an equally absurd set of facts.

 

[teapartysamurai]

They are CBO numbers based on a scenario that batshit Ryan made up - that most facets of the stimulus bill will be permanently extended.

The CBO doesnt' get to chose what numbers it runs. if Ryan says "run the numbers if Obama starts a war against Alaska", the CBO runs those numbers. In this case, Ryan requested an equally absurd set of facts.

Oh it's absurd?????????

How long as medicare been extended? Or the war on "poverty" or Head Start, OR ANY FEDERAL PROGRAM????????

When was the LAST TIME YOU EVER SAW THE GOVERNMENT CUT A DIME?

Do you know back in the 30s they started a tax to fund phones for rural areas, AND TODAY THEY ARE STILL COLLECTING THAT SAME TAX????????

WHEN has the government cut ANYTHING they ever started and guarranteed money coming into their coffers?

And yet you think it's fictional the stimulus will be around 10 years from now???????

BWAHAHAAA!

 

[8537]

I often remind myself that i'm having this discussion with a person that believes ten years of 2.64% growth = 26.4% growth and a person who can't create a post without using smileys.

That helps keep things in perspective, valeyard.

Oh it's absurd?????????

How long as medicare been extended?

A. Medicare was paid for with a tax.
B. Medicare was started as a permanent program.

On the other hand, almost every program from the New Deal was gone by 1941. The Office of Economic Opportunity and the federal money for public housing development form the 1960's is gone. The money spent to build the Space Shuttle is gone.

I could go on, but you *hopefully* get the point.

Do you know back in the 30s they started a tax to fund phones for rural areas, AND TODAY THEY ARE STILL COLLECTING THAT SAME TAX????????

Yes. you know what it's used for nowadays? To fund rural broadband. Is that a problem for you?

WHEN has the government cut ANYTHING they ever started and guarranteed money coming into their coffers?

The whole point of the stimulus is that it doesn't involve money coming into the coffers. It's new deficit spending to increase effective demand.

 

[teapartysamurai]

I often remind myself that i'm having this discussion with a person that believes ten years of 2.64% growth = 26.4% growth and a person who can't create a post without using smileys.

That helps keep things in perspective, valeyard.

Oh it's absurd?????????

How long as medicare been extended?

A. Medicare was paid for with a tax.
B. Medicare was started as a permanent program.

On the other hand, almost every program from the New Deal was gone by 1941. The Office of Economic Opportunity and the federal money for public housing development form the 1960's is gone. The money spent to build the Space Shuttle is gone.

I could go on, but you *hopefully* get the point.

Do you know back in the 30s they started a tax to fund phones for rural areas, AND TODAY THEY ARE STILL COLLECTING THAT SAME TAX????????

Yes. you know what it's used for nowadays? To fund rural broadband. Is that a problem for you?

WHEN has the government cut ANYTHING they ever started and guarranteed money coming into their coffers?

The whole point of the stimulus is that it doesn't involve money coming into the coffers. It's new deficit spending to increase effective demand.

You think medicare is paid for????????

Social Security is paid for????????

Would you explain the deficit if they are all "paid for" with taxes?

And you can't give me the line the deficit was ONLY caused by the Iraq war.

I mean your naivete on taxes is hilarious!



The point being, whether you like it or not, the government NEVER CUTS ANYTHING. You admitted it by admitting the tax for rural phones now brings us (supposedly) rural broadband.