The Injustice of Obama raising the capital gains tax

[edthecynic]

How is new income being taxed "double taxation"?

How about trading in that double taxation for unlimited liability?

Yeah, didn't think so.

How is it NEW income if it really is just inflated dollars.

Obviously didn't watch the video or it couldn't permeate your closed leftist mind.

But if you invest 5,000 dollars in 2000, sell it for 6,000 dollars in 2010, but with inflation you really lost money, then a capital gains tax is taking more than 100% of that, isn't it?

Why am I not surprised you can't see that.

The inflation rate for those 10 years was an average of 2.64% per year so your $1000 profit would be worth $736.00, so how FUZZY must your MATH be to lie that you "really lost money" due to inflation??????

 

[8537]

Hey, I give you credit - you got through a whole post without questioning my education, calling me an imbecile or telling me to go back to school!

That's progress.

Did someone mention imbeciles? I think they did. Let's review:

The bolded part is all I need to know to realize you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Current year income, i.e. from a job, is paid in current year dollars.

I'm going to give you a free macro lesson: "current year" dollars change in value during the course of a year. The CPI and/or the GDP deflator don't magically adjust each year on January 1. They change over the course of a year. The value of a dollar in January of a year is not the same as the value of that dollar in December of that year.

that lesson, pulled from my juco education, comes free of charge. I'm sure you are getting a far superior education.

So you get paid once a year at the end of the year? Is that what you're telling me? No, you get paid most likely, biweekly. What is the biweekly inflation rate?

The biweekly inflation rate is the same as the annual inflation rate. It's a rate, not a stock measure.
But an employee doesn't see his or her income increase in nominal terms over the course of the year. which is the same as saying the employee DOES see his or her real income decline in real terms over the course of the year in an inflationary environment.

So please tell me how that compares to a capital gain which has accrued over a 20 or 30 year time frame.

the gains don't all come at the end of your investment either. They come over the life of the investment. You just chose to realize them at a specific date.

The fact you bring TIPS in to try and bolster your argument is kinda funny. TIPS are a direct admission by the federal government that inflation reduces the realized returns on bonds.

Indeed. And people who invest are fully aware of their existence.

 

[edthecynic]

Your attack by stating only the 1%ers will be effected is beyond ignorant. It just shows you know NOTHING about what you argue about.

Mr S I have no doubt your a highschool student living off Mom and Dad and never worked a real job in your life.

The VAST majority of the middle class people have investments. Heck even some in the lower class have a 401(k).

TINY investments you mean!

Again notice how CON$ deliberately deceive by never giving the whole picture!!!!

Table 5: Concentration of stock ownership by wealth class in the United States, 2001
Wealth class Percent of all stock owned
Top 1% 33.5%
Next 19% 55.8%
Bottom 80% 10.7%

From Wolff (2004). Includes direct ownership of stock shares and indirect ownership through mutual funds, trusts, and IRAs, Keogh plans, 401(k) plans, and other retirement accounts. All figures are in 2001 dollars.

 

[boedicca]

Perhaps their investments would not be quite so tiny if our government did not gobble up such a large share of our GDP.

 

[Care4all]

samurai....

in 2000 you had $5000 to spare after all of your bills.

AND in 2000 your neighbor also had $5000 to spare.

you invested your money in stock, and sold it, giving you $6000 on the sale, a $1000 increase on your $5000.

your neighbor took his $5000 and put it in a safety deposit box, and took it out in 2010, and obviously had no increase on that $5000....so he had the original $5k....he owes no taxes on it, because he had already paid taxes on the $5k....

you are saying the neighbor's $5k is really only worth +/-$4k in 2010....due to inflation....

does your neighbor get to write off a capital LOSS for the $1000 bucks LESS his money is now worth?

NO, HE CAN NOT....

 

[8537]

The VAST majority of the middle class people have investments. Heck even some in the lower class have a 401(k). Raising capital gains hurts all these investments.

How does it hurt those investors? Those people are given an opportunity to invest money without paying an income tax on it. In other words, based on their income, they are investing somewhere between 10% and 36.9% more than they otherwise would.

That money grows tax free over the entire period its life, and the added contributions compound.

 

[teapartysamurai]

That is not at all relevant. The person was paid a return over the course of the investment. The total value of that return was equal to $1,000. The person buying the stock is - or should be - well aware of the changes in purchasing power, yet that person still made a decision to allocate the resources towards the investment. They should have chosen TIPS, it appears, but their stupidity is not the government's concern. The Government offered the person a better opportunity with less risk, which they declined.




You're taxes on Mac and Cheese based on the nominal value of the dollar. You're taxed on capital gains based on the nominal value of the appreciation.

Should someone who realizes a $1,000 loss in 2010 only be able to claim 700 of that against gains?

Inflation is not relevant??????????

Then explain why other taxes have inflation indexing, if it is not relevant?

What a joke!

This is akin to you stating 1000 dollars never changes in value!

You could practically buy a car in 1960 (you sure could in the 1950s) with 1000 dollars.

CAN YOU NOW???????????

1000 bucks MIGHT be a downPAYMENT on some cars (and on other cars, they would LAUGH at you, if you tried to use a 1000 as a down payment)

So, if you are taxed as IF that 1000 bucks can still practically buy a car, how fair is that?

How obtuse do you have to be not to see this?????

Inflation isn't relevant only to those who are ignorant of the economic fracas of the 1970s.

He obviously was born AFTER the 70s, that's for sure!

 

[teapartysamurai]

samurai....

in 2000 you had $5000 to spare after all of your bills.

AND in 2000 your neighbor also had $5000 to spare.

you invested your money in stock, and sold it, giving you $6000 on the sale, a $1000 increase on your $5000.

your neighbor took his $5000 and put it in a safety deposit box, and took it out in 2010, and obviously had no increase on that $5000....so he had the original $5k....he owes no taxes on it, because he had already paid taxes on the $5k....

you are saying the neighbor's $5k is really only worth +/-$4k in 2010....due to inflation....

does your neighbor get to write off a capital LOSS for the $1000 bucks LESS his money is now worth?

NO, HE CAN NOT....

No, he can't, but what is your point?

That "fairness" demand the investor lose money as well?

I don't get you.

 

[teapartysamurai]

How is new income being taxed "double taxation"?

How about trading in that double taxation for unlimited liability?

Yeah, didn't think so.

How is it NEW income if it really is just inflated dollars.

Obviously didn't watch the video or it couldn't permeate your closed leftist mind.

But if you invest 5,000 dollars in 2000, sell it for 6,000 dollars in 2010, but with inflation you really lost money, then a capital gains tax is taking more than 100% of that, isn't it?

Why am I not surprised you can't see that.

The inflation rate for those 10 years was an average of 2.64% per year so your $1000 profit would be worth $736.00, so how FUZZY must your MATH be to lie that you "really lost money" due to inflation??????

That equals up to 26.4%, so what is your point?

If you made 20% on your investment you still lost money.

So, who is doing the "fuzzy math?"

 

[8537]

That equals up to 26.4%, so what is your point?

Oh my....

quoted for posterity.

 

[teapartysamurai]

The VAST majority of the middle class people have investments. Heck even some in the lower class have a 401(k). Raising capital gains hurts all these investments.

How does it hurt those investors? Those people are given an opportunity to invest money without paying an income tax on it. In other words, based on their income, they are investing somewhere between 10% and 36.9% more than they otherwise would.

That money grows tax free over the entire period its life, and the added contributions compound.

It's like the death tax.

My grandfather paid taxes on the money he earned through his life.

He paid taxes on putting it into a saving's account.

THEN when he died he paid a death tax on it.

So, the dirty little secret is, the government is able to tax the same money three times!

I suggest you watch the video again.

 

[Ravi]

How is it NEW income if it really is just inflated dollars.

Obviously didn't watch the video or it couldn't permeate your closed leftist mind.

But if you invest 5,000 dollars in 2000, sell it for 6,000 dollars in 2010, but with inflation you really lost money, then a capital gains tax is taking more than 100% of that, isn't it?

Why am I not surprised you can't see that.

The inflation rate for those 10 years was an average of 2.64% per year so your $1000 profit would be worth $736.00, so how FUZZY must your MATH be to lie that you "really lost money" due to inflation??????

That equals up to 26.4%, so what is your point?

If you made 20% on your investment you still lost money.

So, who is doing the "fuzzy math?"

My God you are stupid. Please stop posting, it embarrassing to see a fellow human being so brain dead.

 

[8537]

The VAST majority of the middle class people have investments. Heck even some in the lower class have a 401(k). Raising capital gains hurts all these investments.

How does it hurt those investors? Those people are given an opportunity to invest money without paying an income tax on it. In other words, based on their income, they are investing somewhere between 10% and 36.9% more than they otherwise would.

That money grows tax free over the entire period its life, and the added contributions compound.

It's like the death tax.

My grandfather paid taxes on the money he earned through his life.

He paid taxes on putting it into a saving's account.

your grandfather paid a tax on putting money into a savings account? weird.

THEN when he died he paid a death tax on it.

well, at least the portion over 2.5M or so. And he didn't pay a tax on it - his inheritors did.

So, the dirty little secret is, the government is able to tax the same money three times!

The government is able to tax the same money millions of times! But in actuality, it taxes the people, not the money. The money is the vehicle.

 

[teapartysamurai]

How does it hurt those investors? Those people are given an opportunity to invest money without paying an income tax on it. In other words, based on their income, they are investing somewhere between 10% and 36.9% more than they otherwise would.

That money grows tax free over the entire period its life, and the added contributions compound.

It's like the death tax.

My grandfather paid taxes on the money he earned through his life.

He paid taxes on putting it into a saving's account.

your grandfather paid a tax on putting money into a savings account? weird.

THEN when he died he paid a death tax on it.

well, at least the portion over 2.5M or so. And he didn't pay a tax on it - his inheritors did.

So, the dirty little secret is, the government is able to tax the same money three times!

The government is able to tax the same money millions of times! But in actuality, it taxes the people, not the money. The money is the vehicle.

You ARE aware that you PAY income tax right?

You ARE aware that since the 80s (as I recall) you pay a tax on "income" from your saving's account.

You ARE aware you pay a death tax (or my grandfather did, the Democrats want to repeal the Bush tax cuts and bring the death tax back).

 

[teapartysamurai]

The government is able to tax the same money millions of times! But in actuality, it taxes the people, not the money. The money is the vehicle.

BUSTED!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for finally revealing your socialist agenda BS!

That's your agenda. You want the PEOPLE TAXED, NOT THE MONEY.

Thus we have why income tax was started in the first place.

 

[8537]

BUSTED!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for finally revealing your socialist agenda BS!

That's your agenda. You want the PEOPLE TAXED, NOT THE MONEY.

Thus we have why income tax was started in the first place.

You can't be serious. You're joking, right?

Money is just a medium of exchange. You can not tax money. If you did, you would need to create new money in order to pay taxes.

People are taxed. People are required to exchange a portion of their productive capacity in exchange for government. They pay that exchange with money.

I fear, however, that you actually think you are right. If that's the case, I ask you to explain how a dollar could pay 50 cents of itself in tax and still have the purchasing power of a dollar?

 

[teapartysamurai]

You can't be serious. You're joking, right?

Money is just a medium of exchange. You can not tax money. If you did, you would need to create new money in order to pay taxes.

People are taxed. People are required to exchange a portion of their productive capacity in exchange for government. They pay that exchange with money.

I fear, however, that you actually think you are right. If that's the case, I ask you to explain how a dollar could pay 50 cents of itself in tax and still have the purchasing power of a dollar?

I want YOU to explain WHY taxing people is so damn important regardless of the "vehicle."

 

[JFK_USA]

How is new income being taxed "double taxation"?

How about trading in that double taxation for unlimited liability?

Yeah, didn't think so.

How is it NEW income if it really is just inflated dollars.

Obviously didn't watch the video or it couldn't permeate your closed leftist mind.

But if you invest 5,000 dollars in 2000, sell it for 6,000 dollars in 2010, but with inflation you really lost money, then a capital gains tax is taking more than 100% of that, isn't it?

Why am I not surprised you can't see that.

You do know that the top 1% also control the price point which in turn causes inflation. Then charge more money to make more profits on products we need. The gap between the rich and the poor is growing rapidly. 1 in 7 people is in poverty. 1 in 7!!! Thats ridiculous in the "greatest country in the world"

Right now, our country isn't great anymore. It once was but since Reagan, it has gone downhill thanks to the republicans. The average wage has stayed the same, yet CEO pay increased 550X!!! WTF?

And you really making the case that these greedy heartless bastards don't want to make money? Investment doesn't create jobs as you can see. The DOW and Nasdaq are already bouncing back, but unemployment is still high. The fact that you sit there and defend people that would kill you to gain more profits is scary. These people are not to be trusted AT ALL.

Tax Capital Gains and use it to create jobs for the people. The people run this show, not the top 1%.

 

[teapartysamurai]

How is new income being taxed "double taxation"?

How about trading in that double taxation for unlimited liability?

Yeah, didn't think so.

How is it NEW income if it really is just inflated dollars.

Obviously didn't watch the video or it couldn't permeate your closed leftist mind.

But if you invest 5,000 dollars in 2000, sell it for 6,000 dollars in 2010, but with inflation you really lost money, then a capital gains tax is taking more than 100% of that, isn't it?

Why am I not surprised you can't see that.

You do know that the top 1% also control the price point which in turn causes inflation. Then charge more money to make more profits on products we need. The gap between the rich and the poor is growing rapidly. 1 in 7 people is in poverty. 1 in 7!!! Thats ridiculous in the "greatest country in the world"

Right now, our country isn't great anymore. It once was but since Reagan, it has gone downhill thanks to the republicans. The average wage has stayed the same, yet CEO pay increased 550X!!! WTF?

And you really making the case that these greedy heartless bastards don't want to make money? Investment doesn't create jobs as you can see. The DOW and Nasdaq are already bouncing back, but unemployment is still high. The fact that you sit there and defend people that would kill you to gain more profits is scary. These people are not to be trusted AT ALL.

Tax Capital Gains and use it to create jobs for the people. The people run this show, not the top 1%.

This is pure class envy.

AS IF, the ONLY PEOPLE that pay capital gains taxes are the top 1%!

And if TAXES and government spending can create jobs, then explain the almost 10% unemployment we have now??????

 

[Mr Natural]

How is new income being taxed "double taxation"?

How about trading in that double taxation for unlimited liability?

Yeah, didn't think so.

How is it NEW income if it really is just inflated dollars.

Obviously didn't watch the video or it couldn't permeate your closed leftist mind.

But if you invest 5,000 dollars in 2000, sell it for 6,000 dollars in 2010, but with inflation you really lost money, then a capital gains tax is taking more than 100% of that, isn't it?

Why am I not surprised you can't see that.

You do know that the top 1% also control the price point which in turn causes inflation. Then charge more money to make more profits on products we need. The gap between the rich and the poor is growing rapidly. 1 in 7 people is in poverty. 1 in 7!!! Thats ridiculous in the "greatest country in the world"

Right now, our country isn't great anymore. It once was but since Reagan, it has gone downhill thanks to the republicans. The average wage has stayed the same, yet CEO pay increased 550X!!! WTF?

And you really making the case that these greedy heartless bastards don't want to make money? Investment doesn't create jobs as you can see. The DOW and Nasdaq are already bouncing back, but unemployment is still high. The fact that you sit there and defend people that would kill you to gain more profits is scary. These people are not to be trusted AT ALL.

Tax Capital Gains and use it to create jobs for the people. The people run this show, not the top 1%.

That's a nice thought, but who do think has more influence on policy makers in DC, us regular folk or the CEO of a top corporation?