The "I Hate Obamacare Because Reasons" Demographic...

[Arianrhod]

...summed up in a single image:

 

[ScienceRocks]

Conservatives are really dumb...They don't realize that most of the regulations, laws and infrastructure that makes their lives better then say some third world shit hole is government maintained.

 

[Arianrhod]

They're apparently incapable of anything more than regurgitating the talking points and posting "The Truth About Obamacare!!11!" that's anywhere from 2-7 years out of date. Pretty soon they'll all have us on Ignore so the adults can have an intelligent conversation without having to trip over the speed-bumps.

 

[MarathonMike]

You don't even know how bad this law is. It is going to continue to unfold like a sci-fi transformer morphing into an ever larger uncontainable beast. The ACA law gives the Health Secretary an incredible amount of power. If an opportunistic and corrupt person takes the position and realizes the power he or she has LEGALLY, LOOK OUT.

 

[Arianrhod]

You don't even know how bad this law is. It is going to continue to unfold like a sci-fi transformer morphing into an ever larger uncontainable beast. The ACA law gives the Health Secretary an incredible amount of power. If an opportunistic and corrupt person takes the position and realizes the power he or she has LEGALLY, LOOK OUT.

Nice metaphor, but perhaps you can provide some concrete evidence of "how bad this law is."

 

[DeclandReiker1]

Obama care isn't ruining the country by any means.
There are a lot of other things that are a lot worse than what it entails, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an issue.
The issue with it isn't that it is necessarily socialist as much as it is giving into the air of entitlement that the U.S runs on. (feeling that we are entitled to our phones, wifi, air conditioning, ext.)
When kids first move out of the house, they are going to need to deal with not having a lot of money. They are going to be eating cheep soups and not going to be able to afford health care while they are getting on their feet. (which is why most teens are still on their parents health care until they're 26)
They need to go through some tough times. You can't be sheltered from everything bad forever!
Obama care is trying to fix a problem that is a part of growing up in the 21st century.
When they pose free health care it isn't helping a lot of people, and it is enabling those who want to be spoon fed their whole life. It is knocking out good health care systems that are really good for specific people. (State farm for larger family's. Progressive for single small business owners, ext.)
Its for people who don't want to work for a living and want to be taken care of their entire life.

 

[Arianrhod]

Obama care isn't ruining the country by any means.
There are a lot of other things that are a lot worse than what it entails, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an issue.
The issue with it isn't that it is necessarily socialist as much as it is giving into the air of entitlement that the U.S runs on. (feeling that we are entitled to our phones, wifi, air conditioning, ext.)
When kids first move out of the house, they are going to need to deal with not having a lot of money. They are going to be eating cheep soups and not going to be able to afford health care while they are getting on their feet. (which is why most teens are still on their parents health care until they're 26)
They need to go through some tough times. You can't be sheltered from everything bad forever!
Obama care is trying to fix a problem that is a part of growing up in the 21st century.
When they pose free health care it isn't helping a lot of people, and it is enabling those who want to be spoon fed their whole life. It is knocking out good health care systems that are really good for specific people. (State farm for larger family's. Progressive for single small business owners, ext.)
Its for people who don't want to work for a living and want to be taken care of their entire life.

Couple of things here:

(A) Health is not Wi-fi. Someone who works, pays their bills, and develops cancer or a chronic illness should not have to file for bankruptcy after they've emptied their savings, sold their house, and maxed out their credit cards because treatment costs hundreds of thousands of dollars.
(B) State Farm and Progressive are not "healthcare systems." They're insurers. And I'd like to see evidence that they're going out of business.

 

[DeclandReiker1]

Okay, what's your full stance on this issue?

 

[Arianrhod]

Okay, what's your full stance on this issue?

It should be obvious from anything I've posted in this forum and the Healthcare forum, but essentially people who can afford to see a doctor stay healthier longer, they're more productive at work, they don't bankrupt hospitals because they can't pay their bills, they can be screened for potentially costly illnesses and prevent or treat them in the early, less expensive stages, etc.

Now, your turn. Let's see those stats for State Farm and Progressive.

 

[DeclandReiker1]

Its not the actual insurers that are the issue! Their fine, having billions in dollars and what not.
Its that so many people are having to leave their old heath care systems (that were just fine!) because they lost the choices and flexibility in health insurance policies that we have had available up until now.
Obama care has caused:
reimbursements to drop, making fewer and fewer doctors that will take Medicare or Medicaid available (which causes an increase in wait times for appointments) as well as a decrease in the numbers and types of specialists (optometrists, to different variants of surgeons) available on these plans.
Studies from various organizations and states have consistently shown that Medicaid recipients have longer waits for medical care, fewer options for specialists, and poorer medical outcomes than people with no health insurance at all. (an increasing number of people are forced into this second-class medical care.)
this also leads to higher taxes but what doesn't these days.

 

[Arianrhod]

Its not the actual insurers that are the issue! Their fine, having billions in dollars and what not.
Its that so many people are having to leave their old heath care systems (that were just fine!) because they lost the choices and flexibility in health insurance policies that we have had available up until now.
Obama care has caused:
reimbursements to drop, making fewer and fewer doctors that will take Medicare or Medicaid available (which causes an increase in wait times for appointments) as well as a decrease in the numbers and types of specialists (optometrists, to different variants of surgeons) available on these plans.
Studies from various organizations and states have consistently shown that Medicaid recipients have longer waits for medical care, fewer options for specialists, and poorer medical outcomes than people with no health insurance at all. (an increasing number of people are forced into this second-class medical care.)
this also leads to higher taxes but what doesn't these days.

I'd really like to see some actual numbers for all of this. Doesn't have to be tonight - I'm logging out soon - but I'm curious.

 

[dblack]

I hate PPACA because it forces us to live our lives permanently indebted to insurance companies. It's the most shameful sellout of the public interest since the invasion of Iraq.

 

[Wyatt earp]

They're apparently incapable of anything more than regurgitating the talking points and posting "The Truth About Obamacare!!11!" that's anywhere from 2-7 years out of date. Pretty soon they'll all have us on Ignore so the adults can have an intelligent conversation without having to trip over the speed-bumps.

I can't wait till you become an adult, pay for insurance get hurt and find out you have a $5,000 deductible, so that $4,500 bill you have to pay in full out of your pocket...

I can't wait

 

[Arianrhod]

I hate PPACA because it forces us to live our lives permanently indebted to insurance companies.

You are aware that insurance companies existed prior to the PPACA, right? And that because of loopholes in the laws they frequently denied coverage and/or capped coverage, neither of which they're allowed to do anymore?

They're apparently incapable of anything more than regurgitating the talking points and posting "The Truth About Obamacare!!11!" that's anywhere from 2-7 years out of date. Pretty soon they'll all have us on Ignore so the adults can have an intelligent conversation without having to trip over the speed-bumps.

I can't wait till you become an adult, pay for insurance get hurt and find out you have a $5,000 deductible, so that $4,500 bill you have to pay in full out of your pocket...

I can't wait

You're at the wrong end of the timeline. As an independent contractor (which I've mentioned in another thread), I've paid my own way for over 20 years, so I've learned how to weigh the pros and cons of low premium/high deductible vs higher premium/lower deductible.

What were you gloating about again?

 

[dblack]

I hate PPACA because it forces us to live our lives permanently indebted to insurance companies.

You are aware that insurance companies existed prior to the PPACA, right? And that because of loopholes in the laws they frequently denied coverage and/or capped coverage, neither of which they're allowed to do anymore?

Yeah. I'm aware. Google Liz Fowler.

 

[Arianrhod]

I hate PPACA because it forces us to live our lives permanently indebted to insurance companies.

You are aware that insurance companies existed prior to the PPACA, right? And that because of loopholes in the laws they frequently denied coverage and/or capped coverage, neither of which they're allowed to do anymore?

Yeah. I'm aware. Google Liz Fowler.

So another vote for single-payer, then?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I hate PPACA because it forces us to live our lives permanently indebted to insurance companies.

You are aware that insurance companies existed prior to the PPACA, right? And that because of loopholes in the laws they frequently denied coverage and/or capped coverage, neither of which they're allowed to do anymore?

They're apparently incapable of anything more than regurgitating the talking points and posting "The Truth About Obamacare!!11!" that's anywhere from 2-7 years out of date. Pretty soon they'll all have us on Ignore so the adults can have an intelligent conversation without having to trip over the speed-bumps.

I can't wait till you become an adult, pay for insurance get hurt and find out you have a $5,000 deductible, so that $4,500 bill you have to pay in full out of your pocket...

I can't wait

You're at the wrong end of the timeline. As an independent contractor (which I've mentioned in another thread), I've paid my own way for over 20 years, so I've learned how to weigh the pros and cons of low premium/high deductible vs higher premium/lower deductible.

What were you gloating about again?

Ok... sooo why are you so sick and need health care? I have not needed to have it since 1996. (Never been to a quack or hospital in 30 years)

I bet you are mad that I didn't have to spend $100,000 in the last 20 years on someone else is health care.

 

[dblack]

I hate PPACA because it forces us to live our lives permanently indebted to insurance companies.

You are aware that insurance companies existed prior to the PPACA, right? And that because of loopholes in the laws they frequently denied coverage and/or capped coverage, neither of which they're allowed to do anymore?

Yeah. I'm aware. Google Liz Fowler.

So another vote for single-payer, then?

Google Liz Fowler.

 

[Arianrhod]

Ok... sooo why are you so sick and need health care?

You missed the part about screenings and prevention, didn't you? Plus people have spouses and children. Not everyone is a majority of one.

I have not needed to have it since 1996.

You hope. Hypertension and hyperlipidemia have no symptoms until BAM! you're in the ER with a coronary. Several million people are walking around with undiagnosed diabetes until they get in trouble.

I bet you are mad that I didn't have to spend $100,000 in the last 20 years on someone else is health care.

Angry? No. Unable to figure out what you're trying to say here, though.

 

[Arianrhod]

I hate PPACA because it forces us to live our lives permanently indebted to insurance companies.

You are aware that insurance companies existed prior to the PPACA, right? And that because of loopholes in the laws they frequently denied coverage and/or capped coverage, neither of which they're allowed to do anymore?

Yeah. I'm aware. Google Liz Fowler.

So another vote for single-payer, then?

Google Liz Fowler.

I know who Liz Fowler is. If you have a point (government employee goes into the private sector? Shocker!), make it.