The "I Hate Obamacare Because Reasons" Demographic...

[dblack]

I hate PPACA because it forces us to live our lives permanently indebted to insurance companies.

You are aware that insurance companies existed prior to the PPACA, right? And that because of loopholes in the laws they frequently denied coverage and/or capped coverage, neither of which they're allowed to do anymore?

Yeah. I'm aware. Google Liz Fowler.

So another vote for single-payer, then?

Google Liz Fowler.

I know who Liz Fowler is. If you have a point (government employee goes into the private sector? Shocker!), make it.

PPACA was a sellout to the insurance industry from the beginning. They saw an opportunity to create a permanent rent-seeking position for themselves - perpetual middlemen in every single health care transaction. And our Congress handed us to them on a platter. You started this thread to mock opposition to PPACA - as though only the ignorant could oppose it. But those who know the most about it, know better.

 

[Arianrhod]

^The people I was mocking were the people who scream "SOCIALISM!!!!' at everything. I don't think that describes you. Do you?

Given the lobbyists' influence and the fact that so many Congressmen sit on the boards of insurers and pharma companies, there was no way we were going to go straight to single-payer. But incrementally we will.

There were howler monkeys shrieking and throwing poo about Social Security during FDR's tenure; now their children and grandchildren are watching the mailbox for their Gubmint check every month ("Cain't trust that there direct deposit horse manure!"), wearing teabags on their heads, and waving signs saying "Keep your government hands off my Medicare!"

Americans always do things the hard way. That doesn't mean we don't eventually git 'er done.

 

[DeclandReiker1]

Reversing the Medicaid Fee Bump: How Much Could Medicaid Physician Fees for Primary Care Fall in 2015?
Study: One-third of doctors wouldn’t take new Medicaid patients last year

by this research we have to determine that either

(A) we need to repel Obama care (and just go back to how things were)
(P.S. it will probably make taxes go down a little, but that's never been my point)

(B) we need to make some kind of law that doctors cannot refuse medicare.
(Which means paying them up to 42% less, and i don't like the idea of cutting payment from doctors, who spent eight years in college (and 14 training for the job) to save lives. Especially since the highest payed public employees in america happens to be football coaches in 25 states and basket ball coaches in 13. I mean what does that say about this country.)

(C) we need to figure something else out.
there are still PROS to obama care. We just have to figure out a way to make them out weigh the cons.

 

[BULLDOG]

Obama care isn't ruining the country by any means.
There are a lot of other things that are a lot worse than what it entails, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an issue.
The issue with it isn't that it is necessarily socialist as much as it is giving into the air of entitlement that the U.S runs on. (feeling that we are entitled to our phones, wifi, air conditioning, ext.)
When kids first move out of the house, they are going to need to deal with not having a lot of money. They are going to be eating cheep soups and not going to be able to afford health care while they are getting on their feet. (which is why most teens are still on their parents health care until they're 26)
They need to go through some tough times. You can't be sheltered from everything bad forever!
Obama care is trying to fix a problem that is a part of growing up in the 21st century.
When they pose free health care it isn't helping a lot of people, and it is enabling those who want to be spoon fed their whole life. It is knocking out good health care systems that are really good for specific people. (State farm for larger family's. Progressive for single small business owners, ext.)
Its for people who don't want to work for a living and want to be taken care of their entire life.

So you're saying all those requirements for moving out of their parent's house changed when Obamacare went into effect? Obamacare eliminated all those "hard times" you mentioned?

 

[DeclandReiker1]

Obama care isn't ruining the country by any means.
There are a lot of other things that are a lot worse than what it entails, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an issue.
The issue with it isn't that it is necessarily socialist as much as it is giving into the air of entitlement that the U.S runs on. (feeling that we are entitled to our phones, wifi, air conditioning, ext.)
When kids first move out of the house, they are going to need to deal with not having a lot of money. They are going to be eating cheep soups and not going to be able to afford health care while they are getting on their feet. (which is why most teens are still on their parents health care until they're 26)
They need to go through some tough times. You can't be sheltered from everything bad forever!
Obama care is trying to fix a problem that is a part of growing up in the 21st century.
When they pose free health care it isn't helping a lot of people, and it is enabling those who want to be spoon fed their whole life. It is knocking out good health care systems that are really good for specific people. (State farm for larger family's. Progressive for single small business owners, ext.)
Its for people who don't want to work for a living and want to be taken care of their entire life.

So you're saying all those requirements for moving out of their parent's house changed when Obamacare went into effect? Obamacare eliminated all those "hard times" you mentioned?

Obama care itself isn't doing that. Its the full picture that is. we are moving in a direction where people are trying to demand free things without working for it. Its a lazy kind of mentality.

 

[BULLDOG]

Obama care isn't ruining the country by any means.
There are a lot of other things that are a lot worse than what it entails, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an issue.
The issue with it isn't that it is necessarily socialist as much as it is giving into the air of entitlement that the U.S runs on. (feeling that we are entitled to our phones, wifi, air conditioning, ext.)
When kids first move out of the house, they are going to need to deal with not having a lot of money. They are going to be eating cheep soups and not going to be able to afford health care while they are getting on their feet. (which is why most teens are still on their parents health care until they're 26)
They need to go through some tough times. You can't be sheltered from everything bad forever!
Obama care is trying to fix a problem that is a part of growing up in the 21st century.
When they pose free health care it isn't helping a lot of people, and it is enabling those who want to be spoon fed their whole life. It is knocking out good health care systems that are really good for specific people. (State farm for larger family's. Progressive for single small business owners, ext.)
Its for people who don't want to work for a living and want to be taken care of their entire life.

So you're saying all those requirements for moving out of their parent's house changed when Obamacare went into effect? Obamacare eliminated all those "hard times" you mentioned?

Obama care itself isn't doing that. Its the full picture that is. we are moving in a direction where people are trying to demand free things without working for it. Its a lazy kind of mentality.

So you want people to do without healthcare because you think America isn't mean enough? You're an idiot.

 

[DeclandReiker1]

Obama care isn't ruining the country by any means.
There are a lot of other things that are a lot worse than what it entails, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an issue.
The issue with it isn't that it is necessarily socialist as much as it is giving into the air of entitlement that the U.S runs on. (feeling that we are entitled to our phones, wifi, air conditioning, ext.)
When kids first move out of the house, they are going to need to deal with not having a lot of money. They are going to be eating cheep soups and not going to be able to afford health care while they are getting on their feet. (which is why most teens are still on their parents health care until they're 26)
They need to go through some tough times. You can't be sheltered from everything bad forever!
Obama care is trying to fix a problem that is a part of growing up in the 21st century.
When they pose free health care it isn't helping a lot of people, and it is enabling those who want to be spoon fed their whole life. It is knocking out good health care systems that are really good for specific people. (State farm for larger family's. Progressive for single small business owners, ext.)
Its for people who don't want to work for a living and want to be taken care of their entire life.

So you're saying all those requirements for moving out of their parent's house changed when Obamacare went into effect? Obamacare eliminated all those "hard times" you mentioned?

Obama care itself isn't doing that. Its the full picture that is. we are moving in a direction where people are trying to demand free things without working for it. Its a lazy kind of mentality.

So you want people to do without healthcare because you think America isn't mean enough? You're an idiot.

No. The people who actually need the health care, food stamps, free school lunches for their kids, ext. should get it. I am talking about the middle class white men, who will do anything for free stuff.
I am talking about the people who will make plenty in a month and then go out to beg on the streets just to pocket some extra from good hearted people.
There are people who lie to get food stamps and others that are cheating off of obama care.
In my experience its way to easy to do these days.
the point of my original post was not that obama care is the issue, but that WE are the issue.
there are so many people trying to pocket from this, and not paying for health care because of it. That doctors just simply cannot keep excepting medicare or medicaid.
If more people who have the money to pay, payed, it would help those who didn't have the money, be able to use obama care.
If not then doctors/physicians/ext. will have to keep refusing it from everybody

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

 

[Arianrhod]

Obama care isn't ruining the country by any means.
There are a lot of other things that are a lot worse than what it entails, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an issue.
The issue with it isn't that it is necessarily socialist as much as it is giving into the air of entitlement that the U.S runs on. (feeling that we are entitled to our phones, wifi, air conditioning, ext.)
When kids first move out of the house, they are going to need to deal with not having a lot of money. They are going to be eating cheep soups and not going to be able to afford health care while they are getting on their feet. (which is why most teens are still on their parents health care until they're 26)
They need to go through some tough times. You can't be sheltered from everything bad forever!
Obama care is trying to fix a problem that is a part of growing up in the 21st century.
When they pose free health care it isn't helping a lot of people, and it is enabling those who want to be spoon fed their whole life. It is knocking out good health care systems that are really good for specific people. (State farm for larger family's. Progressive for single small business owners, ext.)
Its for people who don't want to work for a living and want to be taken care of their entire life.

So you're saying all those requirements for moving out of their parent's house changed when Obamacare went into effect? Obamacare eliminated all those "hard times" you mentioned?

Obama care itself isn't doing that. Its the full picture that is. we are moving in a direction where people are trying to demand free things without working for it. Its a lazy kind of mentality.

So you want people to do without healthcare because you think America isn't mean enough? You're an idiot.

No. The people who actually need the health care, food stamps, free school lunches for their kids, ext. should get it. I am talking about the middle class white men, who will do anything for free stuff.
I am talking about the people who will make plenty in a month and then go out to beg on the streets just to pocket some extra from good hearted people.
There are people who lie to get food stamps and others that are cheating off of obama care.
In my experience its way to easy to do these days.
the point of my original post was not that obama care is the issue, but that WE are the issue.
there are so many people trying to pocket from this, and not paying for health care because of it. That doctors just simply cannot keep excepting medicare or medicaid.
If more people who have the money to pay, payed, it would help those who didn't have the money, be able to use obama care.
If not then doctors/physicians/ext. will have to keep refusing it from everybody

I wonder if you've gone to one of the exchange sites to see how it works? Middle-class white men are not getting "free stuff."

Mostly they're posting all over USMB bitching about other people getting what they perceive as "free stuff."

Seriously, a lot of the concerns you're expressing in this post can be addressed by testing out the system. (I'm assuming you already have insurance through an employer, or you paid the penalty last year rather than get insurance.)

 

[DeclandReiker1]

Obama care isn't ruining the country by any means.
There are a lot of other things that are a lot worse than what it entails, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an issue.
The issue with it isn't that it is necessarily socialist as much as it is giving into the air of entitlement that the U.S runs on. (feeling that we are entitled to our phones, wifi, air conditioning, ext.)
When kids first move out of the house, they are going to need to deal with not having a lot of money. They are going to be eating cheep soups and not going to be able to afford health care while they are getting on their feet. (which is why most teens are still on their parents health care until they're 26)
They need to go through some tough times. You can't be sheltered from everything bad forever!
Obama care is trying to fix a problem that is a part of growing up in the 21st century.
When they pose free health care it isn't helping a lot of people, and it is enabling those who want to be spoon fed their whole life. It is knocking out good health care systems that are really good for specific people. (State farm for larger family's. Progressive for single small business owners, ext.)
Its for people who don't want to work for a living and want to be taken care of their entire life.

So you're saying all those requirements for moving out of their parent's house changed when Obamacare went into effect? Obamacare eliminated all those "hard times" you mentioned?

Obama care itself isn't doing that. Its the full picture that is. we are moving in a direction where people are trying to demand free things without working for it. Its a lazy kind of mentality.

So you want people to do without healthcare because you think America isn't mean enough? You're an idiot.

No. The people who actually need the health care, food stamps, free school lunches for their kids, ext. should get it. I am talking about the middle class white men, who will do anything for free stuff.
I am talking about the people who will make plenty in a month and then go out to beg on the streets just to pocket some extra from good hearted people.
There are people who lie to get food stamps and others that are cheating off of obama care.
In my experience its way to easy to do these days.
the point of my original post was not that obama care is the issue, but that WE are the issue.
there are so many people trying to pocket from this, and not paying for health care because of it. That doctors just simply cannot keep excepting medicare or medicaid.
If more people who have the money to pay, payed, it would help those who didn't have the money, be able to use obama care.
If not then doctors/physicians/ext. will have to keep refusing it from everybody

I wonder if you've gone to one of the exchange sites to see how it works? Middle-class white men are not getting "free stuff."

Mostly they're posting all over USMB bitching about other people getting what they perceive as "free stuff."

Seriously, a lot of the concerns you're expressing in this post can be addressed by testing out the system. (I'm assuming you already have insurance through an employer, or you paid the penalty last year rather than get insurance.)

I payed the penalty last year.
I'll check out one of the exchange sites, but that still doesn't help the fact that one third of medicare patients were refused by doctors last year.

 

[Arianrhod]

So you're saying all those requirements for moving out of their parent's house changed when Obamacare went into effect? Obamacare eliminated all those "hard times" you mentioned?

Obama care itself isn't doing that. Its the full picture that is. we are moving in a direction where people are trying to demand free things without working for it. Its a lazy kind of mentality.

So you want people to do without healthcare because you think America isn't mean enough? You're an idiot.

No. The people who actually need the health care, food stamps, free school lunches for their kids, ext. should get it. I am talking about the middle class white men, who will do anything for free stuff.
I am talking about the people who will make plenty in a month and then go out to beg on the streets just to pocket some extra from good hearted people.
There are people who lie to get food stamps and others that are cheating off of obama care.
In my experience its way to easy to do these days.
the point of my original post was not that obama care is the issue, but that WE are the issue.
there are so many people trying to pocket from this, and not paying for health care because of it. That doctors just simply cannot keep excepting medicare or medicaid.
If more people who have the money to pay, payed, it would help those who didn't have the money, be able to use obama care.
If not then doctors/physicians/ext. will have to keep refusing it from everybody

I wonder if you've gone to one of the exchange sites to see how it works? Middle-class white men are not getting "free stuff."

Mostly they're posting all over USMB bitching about other people getting what they perceive as "free stuff."

Seriously, a lot of the concerns you're expressing in this post can be addressed by testing out the system. (I'm assuming you already have insurance through an employer, or you paid the penalty last year rather than get insurance.)

I payed the penalty last year.
I'll check out one of the exchange sites, but that still doesn't help the fact that one third of medicare patients were refused by doctors last year.

Seriously, it's far better to have insurance than to pay the penalty and get nothing. There are a lot of online insurance calculators, but this one's pretty good: Subsidy Calculator Widget

As for doctors refusing Medicare patients, that's been a problem for as long as there's been Medicare. Some of it's snobbism, some of it's the historically low and slow reimbursement process. But another aspect of the PPACA is to cut out the waste and excess paperwork in Medicare and streamline the process (not to mention reducing costs).

 

[DeclandReiker1]

Obama care itself isn't doing that. Its the full picture that is. we are moving in a direction where people are trying to demand free things without working for it. Its a lazy kind of mentality.

So you want people to do without healthcare because you think America isn't mean enough? You're an idiot.

No. The people who actually need the health care, food stamps, free school lunches for their kids, ext. should get it. I am talking about the middle class white men, who will do anything for free stuff.
I am talking about the people who will make plenty in a month and then go out to beg on the streets just to pocket some extra from good hearted people.
There are people who lie to get food stamps and others that are cheating off of obama care.
In my experience its way to easy to do these days.
the point of my original post was not that obama care is the issue, but that WE are the issue.
there are so many people trying to pocket from this, and not paying for health care because of it. That doctors just simply cannot keep excepting medicare or medicaid.
If more people who have the money to pay, payed, it would help those who didn't have the money, be able to use obama care.
If not then doctors/physicians/ext. will have to keep refusing it from everybody

I wonder if you've gone to one of the exchange sites to see how it works? Middle-class white men are not getting "free stuff."

Mostly they're posting all over USMB bitching about other people getting what they perceive as "free stuff."

Seriously, a lot of the concerns you're expressing in this post can be addressed by testing out the system. (I'm assuming you already have insurance through an employer, or you paid the penalty last year rather than get insurance.)

I payed the penalty last year.
I'll check out one of the exchange sites, but that still doesn't help the fact that one third of medicare patients were refused by doctors last year.

Seriously, it's far better to have insurance than to pay the penalty and get nothing. There are a lot of online insurance calculators, but this one's pretty good: Subsidy Calculator Widget

As for doctors refusing Medicare patients, that's been a problem for as long as there's been Medicare. Some of it's snobbism, some of it's the historically low and slow reimbursement process. But another aspect of the PPACA is to cut out the waste and excess paperwork in Medicare and streamline the process (not to mention reducing costs).

So what i am hearing here is that people are just getting upset that they changed something and no one wants a new anything even if it is going to help someone.

 

[Arianrhod]

So you want people to do without healthcare because you think America isn't mean enough? You're an idiot.

No. The people who actually need the health care, food stamps, free school lunches for their kids, ext. should get it. I am talking about the middle class white men, who will do anything for free stuff.
I am talking about the people who will make plenty in a month and then go out to beg on the streets just to pocket some extra from good hearted people.
There are people who lie to get food stamps and others that are cheating off of obama care.
In my experience its way to easy to do these days.
the point of my original post was not that obama care is the issue, but that WE are the issue.
there are so many people trying to pocket from this, and not paying for health care because of it. That doctors just simply cannot keep excepting medicare or medicaid.
If more people who have the money to pay, payed, it would help those who didn't have the money, be able to use obama care.
If not then doctors/physicians/ext. will have to keep refusing it from everybody

I wonder if you've gone to one of the exchange sites to see how it works? Middle-class white men are not getting "free stuff."

Mostly they're posting all over USMB bitching about other people getting what they perceive as "free stuff."

Seriously, a lot of the concerns you're expressing in this post can be addressed by testing out the system. (I'm assuming you already have insurance through an employer, or you paid the penalty last year rather than get insurance.)

I payed the penalty last year.
I'll check out one of the exchange sites, but that still doesn't help the fact that one third of medicare patients were refused by doctors last year.

Seriously, it's far better to have insurance than to pay the penalty and get nothing. There are a lot of online insurance calculators, but this one's pretty good: Subsidy Calculator Widget

As for doctors refusing Medicare patients, that's been a problem for as long as there's been Medicare. Some of it's snobbism, some of it's the historically low and slow reimbursement process. But another aspect of the PPACA is to cut out the waste and excess paperwork in Medicare and streamline the process (not to mention reducing costs).

So what i am hearing here is that people are just getting upset that they changed something and no one wants a new anything even if it is going to help someone.

That's it exactly.

Plus for some it's "I HATE IT BECAUSE I HATE GUBMINT BECAUSE OBAMA!!!1!!'

Some of them probably still believe the government's going to put chips in their arms to scan them before they can see a doctor.

 

[DeclandReiker1]

No. The people who actually need the health care, food stamps, free school lunches for their kids, ext. should get it. I am talking about the middle class white men, who will do anything for free stuff.
I am talking about the people who will make plenty in a month and then go out to beg on the streets just to pocket some extra from good hearted people.
There are people who lie to get food stamps and others that are cheating off of obama care.
In my experience its way to easy to do these days.
the point of my original post was not that obama care is the issue, but that WE are the issue.
there are so many people trying to pocket from this, and not paying for health care because of it. That doctors just simply cannot keep excepting medicare or medicaid.
If more people who have the money to pay, payed, it would help those who didn't have the money, be able to use obama care.
If not then doctors/physicians/ext. will have to keep refusing it from everybody

I wonder if you've gone to one of the exchange sites to see how it works? Middle-class white men are not getting "free stuff."

Mostly they're posting all over USMB bitching about other people getting what they perceive as "free stuff."

Seriously, a lot of the concerns you're expressing in this post can be addressed by testing out the system. (I'm assuming you already have insurance through an employer, or you paid the penalty last year rather than get insurance.)

I payed the penalty last year.
I'll check out one of the exchange sites, but that still doesn't help the fact that one third of medicare patients were refused by doctors last year.

Seriously, it's far better to have insurance than to pay the penalty and get nothing. There are a lot of online insurance calculators, but this one's pretty good: Subsidy Calculator Widget

As for doctors refusing Medicare patients, that's been a problem for as long as there's been Medicare. Some of it's snobbism, some of it's the historically low and slow reimbursement process. But another aspect of the PPACA is to cut out the waste and excess paperwork in Medicare and streamline the process (not to mention reducing costs).

So what i am hearing here is that people are just getting upset that they changed something and no one wants a new anything even if it is going to help someone.

That's it exactly.

Plus for some it's "I HATE IT BECAUSE I HATE GUBMINT BECAUSE OBAMA!!!1!!'

Some of them probably still believe the government's going to put chips in their arms to scan them before they can see a doctor.

oh, believe me you can't argue with conspiracy theorists. I grew up with two.

 

[Arianrhod]

^At least you grew up sane.

 

[DeclandReiker1]

^At least you grew up sane.

I have no idea where i got my rationality from but i am glad i did.
At least growing up with them has allowed me to be able to take in both sides of an argument and then pick, like i did here.
I think i will try to research more into Obama care before choosing to support it but i can at least say i wont just be paying the penalty next year.

 

[dblack]

^The people I was mocking were the people who scream "SOCIALISM!!!!' at everything. I don't think that describes you. Do you?

I don't generally scream, but I do recognize aspects of socialism, both in our government, and in the plans of many leaders. And I oppose them 'because reasons'. I see a lot of people who welcome them 'because delusions'.

 

[Arianrhod]

^The people I was mocking were the people who scream "SOCIALISM!!!!' at everything. I don't think that describes you. Do you?

I don't generally scream, but I do recognize aspects of socialism, both in our government, and in the plans of many leaders. And I oppose them 'because reasons'. I see a lot of people who welcome them 'because delusions'.

If you understand what socialism means, as opposed to the hysterical spinning of the extreme right, you recognize that unless you live off the grid in a cabin in the woods (Who built the cabin? Who owns the woods? Are you trespassing?) without taking advantage of utilities, and hunt and gather for all your food and clothing needs, you acknowledge that you are a social being. You interact with others all the time (you're doing it right now) and the fruits of their labor just as they interact with you and the work you do.

Grizzly Adams does not have WiFi.

 

[dblack]

^The people I was mocking were the people who scream "SOCIALISM!!!!' at everything. I don't think that describes you. Do you?

I don't generally scream, but I do recognize aspects of socialism, both in our government, and in the plans of many leaders. And I oppose them 'because reasons'. I see a lot of people who welcome them 'because delusions'.

If you understand what socialism means, as opposed to the hysterical spinning of the extreme right, you recognize that unless you live off the grid in a cabin in the woods (Who built the cabin? Who owns the woods? Are you trespassing?) without taking advantage of utilities, and hunt and gather for all your food and clothing needs, you acknowledge that you are a social being. You interact with others all the time (you're doing it right now) and the fruits of their labor just as they interact with you and the work you do.

Grizzly Adams does not have WiFi.

I'm not quite sure what you meant there, but I understand what socialism means and acknowledge that I'm a social being. Do you understand that they aren't the same thing?

 

[Arianrhod]

^The people I was mocking were the people who scream "SOCIALISM!!!!' at everything. I don't think that describes you. Do you?

I don't generally scream, but I do recognize aspects of socialism, both in our government, and in the plans of many leaders. And I oppose them 'because reasons'. I see a lot of people who welcome them 'because delusions'.

If you understand what socialism means, as opposed to the hysterical spinning of the extreme right, you recognize that unless you live off the grid in a cabin in the woods (Who built the cabin? Who owns the woods? Are you trespassing?) without taking advantage of utilities, and hunt and gather for all your food and clothing needs, you acknowledge that you are a social being. You interact with others all the time (you're doing it right now) and the fruits of their labor just as they interact with you and the work you do.

Grizzly Adams does not have WiFi.

I'm not quite sure what you meant there, but I understand what socialism means and acknowledge that I'm a social being. Do you understand that they aren't the same thing?

They're derived from the same Latin root, and the meaning of the two words is far closer than the "socialism/communism" bullshit the Far Right is peddling...even as they're currently singing Putin's praises.