The "I Hate Obamacare Because Reasons" Demographic...

[dblack]

^The people I was mocking were the people who scream "SOCIALISM!!!!' at everything. I don't think that describes you. Do you?

I don't generally scream, but I do recognize aspects of socialism, both in our government, and in the plans of many leaders. And I oppose them 'because reasons'. I see a lot of people who welcome them 'because delusions'.

If you understand what socialism means, as opposed to the hysterical spinning of the extreme right, you recognize that unless you live off the grid in a cabin in the woods (Who built the cabin? Who owns the woods? Are you trespassing?) without taking advantage of utilities, and hunt and gather for all your food and clothing needs, you acknowledge that you are a social being. You interact with others all the time (you're doing it right now) and the fruits of their labor just as they interact with you and the work you do.

Grizzly Adams does not have WiFi.

I'm not quite sure what you meant there, but I understand what socialism means and acknowledge that I'm a social being. Do you understand that they aren't the same thing?

They're derived from the same Latin root, and the meaning of the two words is far closer than the "socialism/communism" bullshit the Far Right is peddling...even as they're currently singing Putin's praises.

Is that a "yes", or a "no"? You were trying to equate a rejection of socialism with a failure to recognize social dependencies, and they're very different concerns. We can embrace social responsibility without endorsing state ownership of the means of production.

 

[Arianrhod]

^The people I was mocking were the people who scream "SOCIALISM!!!!' at everything. I don't think that describes you. Do you?

I don't generally scream, but I do recognize aspects of socialism, both in our government, and in the plans of many leaders. And I oppose them 'because reasons'. I see a lot of people who welcome them 'because delusions'.

If you understand what socialism means, as opposed to the hysterical spinning of the extreme right, you recognize that unless you live off the grid in a cabin in the woods (Who built the cabin? Who owns the woods? Are you trespassing?) without taking advantage of utilities, and hunt and gather for all your food and clothing needs, you acknowledge that you are a social being. You interact with others all the time (you're doing it right now) and the fruits of their labor just as they interact with you and the work you do.

Grizzly Adams does not have WiFi.

I'm not quite sure what you meant there, but I understand what socialism means and acknowledge that I'm a social being. Do you understand that they aren't the same thing?

They're derived from the same Latin root, and the meaning of the two words is far closer than the "socialism/communism" bullshit the Far Right is peddling...even as they're currently singing Putin's praises.

Is that a "yes", or a "no"? You were trying to equate a rejection of socialism with a failure to recognize social dependencies, and they're very different concerns. We can embrace social responsibility without endorsing state ownership of the means of production.

Emphasis on your last sentence: absolutely.

But what we have now in terms of access to affordable care is a hybrid that maintains the means of production in the hands of private insurers, who are now constrained by law from harming their customers. Is that sufficient or is there something better?

The answers to that are as varied as the people you ask.

 

[BULLDOG]

Obama care isn't ruining the country by any means.
There are a lot of other things that are a lot worse than what it entails, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an issue.
The issue with it isn't that it is necessarily socialist as much as it is giving into the air of entitlement that the U.S runs on. (feeling that we are entitled to our phones, wifi, air conditioning, ext.)
When kids first move out of the house, they are going to need to deal with not having a lot of money. They are going to be eating cheep soups and not going to be able to afford health care while they are getting on their feet. (which is why most teens are still on their parents health care until they're 26)
They need to go through some tough times. You can't be sheltered from everything bad forever!
Obama care is trying to fix a problem that is a part of growing up in the 21st century.
When they pose free health care it isn't helping a lot of people, and it is enabling those who want to be spoon fed their whole life. It is knocking out good health care systems that are really good for specific people. (State farm for larger family's. Progressive for single small business owners, ext.)
Its for people who don't want to work for a living and want to be taken care of their entire life.

So you're saying all those requirements for moving out of their parent's house changed when Obamacare went into effect? Obamacare eliminated all those "hard times" you mentioned?

Obama care itself isn't doing that. Its the full picture that is. we are moving in a direction where people are trying to demand free things without working for it. Its a lazy kind of mentality.

So you want people to do without healthcare because you think America isn't mean enough? You're an idiot.

No. The people who actually need the health care, food stamps, free school lunches for their kids, ext. should get it. I am talking about the middle class white men, who will do anything for free stuff.
I am talking about the people who will make plenty in a month and then go out to beg on the streets just to pocket some extra from good hearted people.
There are people who lie to get food stamps and others that are cheating off of obama care.
In my experience its way to easy to do these days.
the point of my original post was not that obama care is the issue, but that WE are the issue.
there are so many people trying to pocket from this, and not paying for health care because of it. That doctors just simply cannot keep excepting medicare or medicaid.
If more people who have the money to pay, payed, it would help those who didn't have the money, be able to use obama care.
If not then doctors/physicians/ext. will have to keep refusing it from everybody

No doubt that there are people who will scam any way they can. Always have been, always will be. The majority of people aren't like that, and it's wrong to deny so many hurting people because a few don't deserve it.

 

[dblack]

I don't generally scream, but I do recognize aspects of socialism, both in our government, and in the plans of many leaders. And I oppose them 'because reasons'. I see a lot of people who welcome them 'because delusions'.

If you understand what socialism means, as opposed to the hysterical spinning of the extreme right, you recognize that unless you live off the grid in a cabin in the woods (Who built the cabin? Who owns the woods? Are you trespassing?) without taking advantage of utilities, and hunt and gather for all your food and clothing needs, you acknowledge that you are a social being. You interact with others all the time (you're doing it right now) and the fruits of their labor just as they interact with you and the work you do.

Grizzly Adams does not have WiFi.

I'm not quite sure what you meant there, but I understand what socialism means and acknowledge that I'm a social being. Do you understand that they aren't the same thing?

They're derived from the same Latin root, and the meaning of the two words is far closer than the "socialism/communism" bullshit the Far Right is peddling...even as they're currently singing Putin's praises.

Is that a "yes", or a "no"? You were trying to equate a rejection of socialism with a failure to recognize social dependencies, and they're very different concerns. We can embrace social responsibility without endorsing state ownership of the means of production.

Emphasis on your last sentence: absolutely.

But what we have now in terms of access to affordable care is a hybrid that maintains the means of production in the hands of private insurers, who are now constrained by law from harming their customers.

What we have now, thanks to PPACA, takes away the most important right a consumer has - the right to say "no thanks" to a product that isn't worth the money. The insurance industry has scored the "golden ring" of corporatism and, essentially, given themselves the power of taxation.

 

[Arianrhod]

What we have now, thanks to PPACA, takes away the most important right a consumer has - the right to say "no thanks" to a product that isn't worth the money.

Not at all true.

 

[dblack]

What we have now, thanks to PPACA, takes away the most important right a consumer has - the right to say "no thanks" to a product that isn't worth the money.

Not at all true.

You need to read up on it then. It is true.

 

[Arianrhod]

What we have now, thanks to PPACA, takes away the most important right a consumer has - the right to say "no thanks" to a product that isn't worth the money.

Not at all true.

You need to read up on it then. It is true.

Read up on it? I got my private, major carrier insurance through the exchange in my state, and I'm very satisfied with it. Yes, I realize that's anecdotal, but the only people I see complaining about it are people on message boards who dismiss it as "a clusterfuck of a failure that's ruining the country."

When you ask them to show some proof, they cuss at you.

So, you may have stated this before and I missed it, but is it okay if I ask you whether you have health insurance?

 

[dblack]

What we have now, thanks to PPACA, takes away the most important right a consumer has - the right to say "no thanks" to a product that isn't worth the money.

Not at all true.

You need to read up on it then. It is true.

Read up on it?

Yes. You claimed my statement wasn't true. So I assumed you hadn't read about the individual mandate.

 

[Arianrhod]

What we have now, thanks to PPACA, takes away the most important right a consumer has - the right to say "no thanks" to a product that isn't worth the money.

Not at all true.

You need to read up on it then. It is true.

Read up on it?

Yes. You claimed my statement want true. So I assumed you hadn't read about the individual mandate.

Your statement still isn't true.

(A) You absolutely have the right to pay the penalty and get nothing. IMO it's a silly thing to do, but you are free to do so
(B) "It isn't worth the money" is your opinion, not the opinion of the millions of Americans who now have access to affordable health insurance. While you're entitled to your opinion, it's not a universal.

 

[dblack]

What we have now, thanks to PPACA, takes away the most important right a consumer has - the right to say "no thanks" to a product that isn't worth the money.

Not at all true.

You need to read up on it then. It is true.

Read up on it?

Yes. You claimed my statement want true. So I assumed you hadn't read about the individual mandate.

Your statement still isn't true.

(A) You absolutely have the right to pay the penalty and get nothing. IMO it's a silly thing to do, but you are free to do so

You don't "get nothing". You get fined. Refusing to buy health insurance is now against the law. PPACA takes away our right to refuse to buy health insurance. That's a fact.

 

[Arianrhod]

You don't "get nothing". You get fined. Refusing to buy health insurance is now against the law. PPACA takes away our right to refuse to buy health insurance. That's a fact.

You're contradicting yourself.

 

[dblack]

You don't "get nothing". You get fined. Refusing to buy health insurance is now against the law. PPACA takes away our right to refuse to buy health insurance. That's a fact.

You're contradicting yourself.

How?

 

[Arianrhod]

You don't "get nothing". You get fined. Refusing to buy health insurance is now against the law. PPACA takes away our right to refuse to buy health insurance. That's a fact.

You're contradicting yourself.

How?

You have a right to refuse to buy health insurance.

In fact, I'm reasonably certain you've personally done precisely that.

Do you also refuse to buy car insurance?

 

[dblack]

You don't "get nothing". You get fined. Refusing to buy health insurance is now against the law. PPACA takes away our right to refuse to buy health insurance. That's a fact.

You're contradicting yourself.

How?

You have a right to refuse to buy health insurance.

The government violates that right by punishing you if you do not.

In fact, I'm reasonably certain you've personally done precisely that.

Do you also refuse to buy car insurance?

I don't discuss my personal life here, sorry.

 

[Arianrhod]

You don't "get nothing". You get fined. Refusing to buy health insurance is now against the law. PPACA takes away our right to refuse to buy health insurance. That's a fact.

You're contradicting yourself.

How?

You have a right to refuse to buy health insurance.

The government violates that right by punishing you if you do not.

The government would also "punish" (the correct word is "penalize") you if you didn't have car insurance. I don't see anyone here making a big stink about that.

In fact, I'm reasonably certain you've personally done precisely that.

Do you also refuse to buy car insurance?

I don't discuss my personal life here, sorry.

No need. You've already answered the question.

 

[dblack]

You don't "get nothing". You get fined. Refusing to buy health insurance is now against the law. PPACA takes away our right to refuse to buy health insurance. That's a fact.

You're contradicting yourself.

How?

You have a right to refuse to buy health insurance.

The government violates that right by punishing you if you do not.

The government would also "punish" (the correct word is "penalize") you if you didn't have car insurance. I don't see anyone here making a big stink about that.

In fact, I'm reasonably certain you've personally done precisely that.

Do you also refuse to buy car insurance?

I don't discuss my personal life here, sorry.

No need. You've already answered the question.

I'm generally pretty tolerant with other people's views, but you've pushed the limits of idiocy and/or evasiveness. And now you've crossed the line into the personal. Good night.

 

[Arianrhod]

So comparing health insurance to car insurance is "evasive." Fascinating.

And I didn't cross any lines. I accepted your evasiveness as proof of my hypothesis.

Enjoy your evening!

 

[Conservative65]

Conservatives are really dumb...They don't realize that most of the regulations, laws and infrastructure that makes their lives better then say some third world shit hole is government maintained.

...summed up in a single image:

On radio stations that are privately owned.

FORD Motors received a bailout?

Paying the taxes that fund the highways.

Went to private schools and private universities while my parents were still paying property taxes that funded public schools.

My water comes from a well

While I have visited a national park, I pay the taxes that fund them. Does everyone that visits one pay those taxes.

 

[Conservative65]

Okay, what's your full stance on this issue?

It should be obvious from anything I've posted in this forum and the Healthcare forum, but essentially people who can afford to see a doctor stay healthier longer, they're more productive at work, they don't bankrupt hospitals because they can't pay their bills, they can be screened for potentially costly illnesses and prevent or treat them in the early, less expensive stages, etc.

Now, your turn. Let's see those stats for State Farm and Progressive.

Yet you still claim you're not a Democrat despite supporting the talking points of DEMOCRATS.

 

[Arianrhod]

Okay, what's your full stance on this issue?

It should be obvious from anything I've posted in this forum and the Healthcare forum, but essentially people who can afford to see a doctor stay healthier longer, they're more productive at work, they don't bankrupt hospitals because they can't pay their bills, they can be screened for potentially costly illnesses and prevent or treat them in the early, less expensive stages, etc.

Now, your turn. Let's see those stats for State Farm and Progressive.

Yet you still claim you're not a Democrat despite supporting the talking points of DEMOCRATS.

So you have no stats for State Farm and Progressive.