The Great Abortion Compromise!

[MissileMan]

Whatever---contrary to certain opinions pro-lifers DO support the taking of a human life in certain circumstances. They just happen to think that willy nilly killing of fetuses is wrong. There not interested in controlling a womans' body--there are concerned about the life inside it. So are the laws that protect that life.

Are you talking about the laws that also make a distinction between a three-week-old fetus and a 6-month-old one?

 

[Annie]

Are you talking about the laws that also make a distinction between a three-week-old fetus and a 6-month-old one?

So are you saying that a 6 month old fetus is worth saving?

 

[MissileMan]

So are you saying that a 6 month old fetus is worth saving?

I am in favor of abortion with restrictions. I believe that a woman should be able to get an abortion for any reason during the first trimester. After that, she should take the baby to term unless her life is in danger.

 

[Annie]

I am in favor of abortion with restrictions. I believe that a woman should be able to get an abortion for any reason during the first trimester. After that, she should take the baby to term unless her life is in danger.

and I'm against abortion, with restrictions: rape, incest, serious physical health of the mother...

 

[MissileMan]

and I'm against abortion, with restrictions: rape, incest, serious physical health of the mother...

Err, that would be "with exceptions", not "with restrictions".

 

[Annie]

Err, that would be "with exceptions", not "with restrictions".

kudos to you for vocab.

 

[nt250]

and I'm against abortion, with restrictions: rape, incest, serious physical health of the mother...

If you are for abortion in cases of rape or incest, that means you are pro-choice. A person who is truly against abortion wouldn't care how a pregnancy got started. A life is a life. It's not the baby's fault how it got conceived.

The fact that you decided to mention, and emphasize the word physical when it comes to the health of the mother, means that you don't make allowances for the mental health of the mother, only her physical health. That's very big of you.

 

[Annie]

If you are for abortion in cases of rape or incest, that means you are pro-choice. A person who is truly against abortion wouldn't care how a pregnancy got started. A life is a life. It's not the baby's fault how it got conceived.

The fact that you decided to mention, and emphasize the word physical when it comes to the health of the mother, means that you don't make allowances for the mental health of the mother, only her physical health. That's very big of you.

That is what I'm saying, I do have 'exceptions.' Then again, while exception for physical well being, I'm not willing to go to, "I have to hide pregnancy, my parents will 'kill' me if they find out".

 

[nt250]

That is what I'm saying, I do have 'exceptions.' Then again, while exception for physical well being, I'm not willing to go to, "I have to hide pregnancy, my parents will 'kill' me if they find out".

I agree with that. Except I'd rather see a girl have an abortion at 10 weeks than give birth and leave the poor thing in a trash can.

 

[Gunny]

We have something called the Constitution of The United States, and in that document there is the express right to privacy from interference by the government in matters that should remain private. There is no more private issue than the medical decisions a person makes. That's what Roe v Wade decided. I agree it was rotten law because they went way too far in detailing what should and shouldn't be allowed, they should have just left at the privacy decision. They only gave more ammo to the Right To Life crowd to argue with the basic right to privacy issue by getting into the timeline of when an abortion could be allowed.

That's that only reason right to lifers latched onto the whole "partial birth abortion" issue. Partial birth abortion is a medical procedure that is only used in cases when the fetus has already died. It prevents a pregnant women from having to go through labor and give vaginal birth to a baby that will obviously be stillborn. Many, many, women have had to endure just that. There was one poster on my last message board who told the story of how that happened to her. Two weeks before her due date she found out that her baby had died in the womb. Her only option was to induce labor but the doctor was booked solid and couldn't schedule it for more than a week. That poor woman had to wait a week to have her labor induced, then she had to go through hours of labor, and finally had a stillborn baby. Reading her story was enough to break your heart.

There is not a doctor in this country who would perform a partial birth abortion on a healthy, live fetus, but you wouldn't know that because the right to lifers get too much mileage out of using that to promote their agenda.

Partial-birth abortion is not aborting an already dead fetus. If that were the case, it would not be a political issue at all, just a medical procedure to remove a dead fetus; which, I doubt many would object to.

It's a barabaric procedure brought to us by the left, the verysame left that would have you charged in a heartbeat if you treated a dog in the same manner.

 

[nt250]

Partial-birth abortion is not aborting an already dead fetus. If that were the case, it would not be a political issue at all, just a medical procedure to remove a dead fetus; which, I doubt many would object to.

It's a barabaric procedure brought to us by the left, the verysame left that would have you charged in a heartbeat if you treated a dog in the same manner.

That is not true.

The fact is that there are very few doctors anywhere in this country who will perform any abortions at all. There have been some medical school students who have objected to even being trained in the procedure. You can't just walk into any hospital or doctors office and ask for an abortion. If it weren't for Planned Parenthood, and some other abortion rights groups, and the few doctors willing to perform legal abortions, most women wouldn't be able to get an abortion at all. Hell, I saw a TV show a few years ago about one state, I think it was North Dakota maybe?, where there was only one place in the entire state where a woman could get a first tri-mester abortion, and that had only one doctor, and he had to be helicoptered in from another state. And wear a bullet-proof vest.

So much for right-to-life, huh? Kill the doctors. Forget the life of the mother. And end welfare. Who cares about those babies that are born? Not right to lifers. They're too busy harrassing women who enter places that perform abortions even if they have no clue why they're going there.

I read a story once about a woman who had a miscarriage. She had an appointment with her clinic and some right to lifers wrote down her license plate number and somehow got her home address. They mailed her graphic pictures of an aborted fetus. This woman actually wanted the baby, but she had no health insurance and she couldn't afford to go anywhere else. She didn't go there to get an abortion. She went there for pre-natal care and she was very upset when she lost it. Imagine getting those kinds of pictures in the mail after that.

Right to lifers are monsters and are no better than terrorists.

 

[Gunny]

That is not true.

The fact is that there are very few doctors anywhere in this country who will perform any abortions at all. There have been some medical school students who have objected to even being trained in the procedure. You can't just walk into any hospital or doctors office and ask for an abortion. If it weren't for Planned Parenthood, and some other abortion rights groups, and the few doctors willing to perform legal abortions, most women wouldn't be able to get an abortion at all. Hell, I saw a TV show a few years ago about one state, I think it was North Dakota maybe?, where there was only one place in the entire state where a woman could get a first tri-mester abortion, and that had only one doctor, and he had to be helicoptered in from another state. And wear a bullet-proof vest.

So much for right-to-life, huh? Kill the doctors. Forget the life of the mother. And end welfare. Who cares about those babies that are born? Not right to lifers. They're too busy harrassing women who enter places that perform abortions even if they have no clue why they're going there.

I read a story once about a woman who had a miscarriage. She had an appointment with her clinic and some right to lifers wrote down her license plate number and somehow got her home address. They mailed her graphic pictures of an aborted fetus. This woman actually wanted the baby, but she had no health insurance and she couldn't afford to go anywhere else. She didn't go there to get an abortion. She went there for pre-natal care and she was very upset when she lost it. Imagine getting those kinds of pictures in the mail after that.

Right to lifers are monsters and are no better than terrorists.

Excuse me? A partial birth abortion is taking a live baby out of the mother except for part of the baby's head, sticking a tube in it and sucking it's brains out with a vaccuum. THAT is EXACTLY what partial birth abortion is, and as I already said, if they were doing it to an already dead baby, nobody would care.

Abortion going directly against Hypocratic Oath might have a little to do with a shortage of doctors willing to perform them, but that is irrelevant to what partial birth abortion is.

You're taking the few and far between acts of extremists and representing them as ALL "right to lifers." Bullshit is what that is?

How many abortion clinics have been bombed in the last 20 years, and when was the last one? And how many and WHO supported the act?

Committing murder to protest murder is just downright stupid, IMO, and I sure as Hell don't support it. Nor do I support harrassing people for having abortions.

I support my opinion, and vote according to it; which, is what most normal people do. I have yet to see anyone on this board support any extreme actions, or the people who commit them, and your onesy-twosy stories does not support indicting all people who oppose abortion as "monsters."

 

[nt250]

Excuse me? A partial birth abortion is taking a live baby out of the mother except for part of the baby's head, sticking a tube in it and sucking it's brains out with a vaccuum. THAT is EXACTLY what partial birth abortion is, and as I already said, if they were doing it to an already dead baby, nobody would care.

Abortion going directly against Hypocratic Oath might have a little to do with a shortage of doctors willing to perform them, but that is irrelevant to what partial birth abortion is.

You're taking the few and far between acts of extremists and representing them as ALL "right to lifers." Bullshit is what that is?

How many abortion clinics have been bombed in the last 20 years, and when was the last one? And how many and WHO supported the act?

Committing murder to protest murder is just downright stupid, IMO, and I sure as Hell don't support it. Nor do I support harrassing people for having abortions.

I support my opinion, and vote according to it; which, is what most normal people do. I have yet to see anyone on this board support any extreme actions, or the people who commit them, and your onesy-twosy stories does not support indicting all people who oppose abortion as "monsters."

Partial birth abortion is a very rare procedure that is performed on women whose babies have died in the womb. There is not a doctor in this country who would perform such a procedure on a live, healthy fetus, on demand. If you find one, let us all know.

But if you do manage to find one, remember your own words about right to life terrorists and how you all shouldn't be lumped together with them.

 

[MtnBiker]

Partial birth abortion is a very rare procedure that is performed on women whose babies have died in the womb.

Not true.

http://www.abortioninfo.net/facts/pba.shtml

 

[Gunny]

Partial birth abortion is a very rare procedure that is performed on women whose babies have died in the womb. There is not a doctor in this country who would perform such a procedure on a live, healthy fetus, on demand. If you find one, let us all know.

You are absolutely incorrect. I don't know where you are getting your info from, but someone's lying to you. Wonder why THAT is?

I will repeat for the third time, IF what you say is true, this would NOT be an issue. Nobody's protesting aborting dead fetuses. That's ALL you can do with a dead fetus. There is no debate.

You are incorrect also about who is willing to perform a partial birth abortion. Most obstetricians can and will if medical necessity dictates. If no one was willing to perform the operation, that would be ANOTHER reason why this wouldn't be an issue.

But if you do manage to find one, remember your own words about right to life terrorists and how you all shouldn't be lumped together with them.

So, by your logic, all pro-choice advocates are cold-blooded babykillers?

Whether I agree with you or not, you usually bring a loaded weapon to the gunfight. Doesn't appear to be the case this time. I dare say you don't really know what you're talking about.

 

[dilloduck]

That is not true.

The fact is that there are very few doctors anywhere in this country who will perform any abortions at all. There have been some medical school students who have objected to even being trained in the procedure. You can't just walk into any hospital or doctors office and ask for an abortion. If it weren't for Planned Parenthood, and some other abortion rights groups, and the few doctors willing to perform legal abortions, most women wouldn't be able to get an abortion at all. Hell, I saw a TV show a few years ago about one state, I think it was North Dakota maybe?, where there was only one place in the entire state where a woman could get a first tri-mester abortion, and that had only one doctor, and he had to be helicoptered in from another state. And wear a bullet-proof vest.

So much for right-to-life, huh? Kill the doctors. Forget the life of the mother. And end welfare. Who cares about those babies that are born? Not right to lifers. They're too busy harrassing women who enter places that perform abortions even if they have no clue why they're going there.

I read a story once about a woman who had a miscarriage. She had an appointment with her clinic and some right to lifers wrote down her license plate number and somehow got her home address. They mailed her graphic pictures of an aborted fetus. This woman actually wanted the baby, but she had no health insurance and she couldn't afford to go anywhere else. She didn't go there to get an abortion. She went there for pre-natal care and she was very upset when she lost it. Imagine getting those kinds of pictures in the mail after that.

Right to lifers are monsters and are no better than terrorists.

oh lighten up---you're making too big of a deal of it.

 

[nt250]

Not true.

http://www.abortioninfo.net/facts/pba.shtml

It is true. Your website is full of shit.

Yes, it is true that partial birth abortion is not a medical necessity in most cases. Prior to it's development, women were forced to endure the labor and delivery of a dead baby.

But then we're back to the private medical decision of a woman and her doctor. If it were my decision? I'd go through with the birth. Doctors have been known to be wrong, and medical science isn't perfect, and I'd take my chances. But I would want a c-section, and I would want to be either unconsious, or sheilded from the view of the baby. If it really was dead, I wouldn't want to see it. But that's me.

I don't have the right to tell another woman what to do under those circumstances. And neither do you.

 

[Gunny]

It is true. Your website is full of shit.

Yes, it is true that partial birth abortion is not a medical necessity in most cases. Prior to it's development, women were forced to endure the labor and delivery of a dead baby.

But then we're back to the private medical decision of a woman and her doctor. If it were my decision? I'd go through with the birth. Doctors have been known to be wrong, and medical science isn't perfect, and I'd take my chances. But I would want a c-section, and I would want to be either unconsious, or sheilded from the view of the baby. If it really was dead, I wouldn't want to see it. But that's me.

I don't have the right to tell another woman what to do under those circumstances. And neither do you.

Educate yourself please.
http://www.abortioninfo.net/facts/pba.shtml

http://www.priestsforlife.org/partialbirth.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial-birth_abortion

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/

And if it's MY child, I dmaned sure do have the right to tell the woman what I think about it. If positions are reversed and she wants the child and I want it aborted, guess what I get to pay for for the next 18 years?

You want to give the woman an escape from the consequences of her actions ....where's MINE?

 

[MtnBiker]

It is true. Your website is full of shit.

Perhaps this site will suit you better.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&sid=cp105jaC4x&refer=&r_n=hr024.105&db_id=105&item=&sel=TOC_6334&

 

[Gunny]

Perhaps this site will suit you better.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&sid=cp105jaC4x&refer=&r_n=hr024.105&db_id=105&item=&sel=TOC_6334&

If you look at the wikipedia link I posted, it lists the procedure she desribes as also being considered partial-birth abortion. I somehow don't think it is that particular procedure anyone gives a hoot about.