The genius of the UN's resolution on Israeli settlements

[Mindful]

Both Labor and Likud governments have funded settlers, many religious extremists, and gifted them the best land.

Meanwhile, Palestinians are denied building approval for homes, even a chicken coop. If in Area C they throw up a granny flat it's promptly demolished by army bulldozers.


The genius of the UN's resolution on Israeli settlements

Not true. Palestinian illegal building is springing up all over the place.

Recently, entire Arab neighborhoods with crowded high-rises have shot up around Jerusalem. Only a handful of steps separate some of the buildings, and most lack proper sewage systems. Apartment prices range from $25,000 to $50,000 USD. These are ridiculous prices compared with the real costs of apartments in both Arab and Jewish (legal) neighborhoods in Jerusalem. Today, it is almost impossible to purchase a three-room apartment in the city for less than $250,000 USD.

 

[cnm]

Why are Israelis settling inside Palestinian borders? This is the large point.

 

[cnm]

See Posting #33, supra.

I haven't been able to find a map of the West Bank/Israel borders in those links. Where is it to be found?

 

[flacaltenn]

See Posting #33, supra.

I haven't been able to find a map of the West Bank/Israel borders in those links. Where is it to be found?

You need to keep in mind that there are primarily Jewish settlements in the "west bank" that date back 1000 years and have ALWAYS had a Jewish presence there. And the fact that 50 years has passed with no recognized representation of Palestinian nationalism. No leaders to negotiate with.

I'm afraid that some kind of protectorate is the best that will happen. Set up for the FUTURE Palestine. When Palestinians can appoint responsible leadership and show that they are vested in BEING a nation state. Right now, the cultural differences between WBank cities is HUGE. Some being fairly modern and secular and others where the culture is distinctly Islamic. And the major Pali Cities may end up being a chain of semi-autonomous city states, if the people can't or won't organize and appoint leaders.

 

[cnm]

Anyway...phew!

Shit's getting scary all right.

Israel pauses further sanctions on New Zealand 'until further notice'
http://www.stuff.co.nz/

Netanyahu personally phoned Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully before the vote, his office has confirmed.

Israeli publication Haaretz, citing unnamed western diplomats, described a "harsh" phone call between the pair.
"This is a scandalous decision. I'm asking that you not support it and not promote it," Netanyahu reportedly told McCully.
"If you continue to promote this resolution from our point of view it will be a declaration of war. It will rupture the relations and there will be consequences."
McCully reportedly refused to back down, according to Haaretz, telling Netanyahu the resolution was consistent with New Zealand policy on the dispute.

McCully's office refused to publicly comment on the content of the conversation. .​

 

[cnm]

You need to keep in mind that there are primarily Jewish settlements in the "west bank" that date back 1000 years and have ALWAYS had a Jewish presence there.

As though there hasn't ALWAYS been a 'Palestinian' presence there. So no border with Palestine. I'm shocked, shocked I say. Perhaps a UNSC resolution would help.

 

[cnm]

I wonder what will be the first act in the war. Stealing something seems to be the default Israeli go to.

But perhaps a sneak attack on Stewart Island. Torah! Torah! Torah! ?

 

[flacaltenn]

You need to keep in mind that there are primarily Jewish settlements in the "west bank" that date back 1000 years and have ALWAYS had a Jewish presence there.

So no border with Palestine. I'm shocked, shocked I say. Perhaps a UNSC resolution would help.

You do realize the Palis had ALL of the west bank when Jordan hosted them? Before they ATTACKED Amman with commandeered tanks and got their butts tossed out of that country. And before Jordan ATTACKED Israel and LOST the West Bank in a war.

Then when it came time to negotiate with Jordan (the rightful owner) -- Jordan just walked away. Had no interest in repeating THEIR experience with the Palis.

That land was captured and taken FROM JORDAN. Jordan renounced claims to it. That's the ONLY WAY it becomes a "border of Palestine"..

 

[P F Tinmore]

Both Labor and Likud governments have funded settlers, many religious extremists, and gifted them the best land.

Meanwhile, Palestinians are denied building approval for homes, even a chicken coop. If in Area C they throw up a granny flat it's promptly demolished by army bulldozers.


The genius of the UN's resolution on Israeli settlements

Just as in the US when you try and build without the correct permits, your building gets demolished and you get the bill.

Do I need a permit from Canada to build in Ohio?

Stupid.

Indeed.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Prior to the 1924 Treaty of Lausanne and the earlier Treaty of Sevres, and before that the 1918 Mudros Armistice, and before even that, the Rule of the Ottoman Empire, there was no seat of government or political subdivision called "Palestine; NOT in a thousand years.

There was no Iraq, Transjordan, Syria, or Lebanon either.

What is your point?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Again the ground truth is had to deny. When you come up upon a boundary controlled by Israelis on one side and someone else on the other, it is what it is.

Occupation.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The recent UN Security Council Resolution 2334 (23DEC16) is interesting reading. It is all about the coercion of maintaining the Two-State Solution.

Indeed, I see nothing where a two state solution is required or allowed by international law.

 

[American_Jihad]

Defective Law and Morality in the UN Security Council Resolution
Making Jews trespassers and criminals on their own land.
December 26, 2016
Richard L. Cravatts

...

Professor Rostow himself saw through the disingenuous talk about legal rights and resolutions when it came to the issue of the settlements. The discussion was not, in his mind, “about legal rights but about the political will to override legal rights.” In fact, the settlement debate is part of the decades-old narrative created by the Palestinians and their Western enablers to write a false historical account that legitimizes Palestinian claims while air brushing away Jewish history. “Throughout Israel’s occupation,” Rostow observed, “the Arab countries, helped by the United States, have pushed to keep Jews out of the territories, so that at a convenient moment, or in a peace negotiation, the claim that the West Bank is ‘Arab’ territory could be made more plausible.”

In the cognitive war against Israel, that “convenient moment,” at least for the “pack of jackals” in the UN that the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan lamented about, has apparently arrived.

Defective Law and Morality in the UN Security Council Resolution

 

[RoccoR]

cnm, et al,

Let's see...

See Posting #33, supra.

I haven't been able to find a map of the West Bank/Israel borders in those links. Where is it to be found?

(COMMENTARY w/MAP)

YOUR QUESTION: Why are Israelis settling inside Palestinian borders?

• The Answer: Under the Oslo Accords, the Agreements specified Areas of the West Bank. These specified Areas are used quite frequent, EVEN on the Map in your Posting #42. If you read last box in the legend, you will note that Area "C" is an area under FULL Civil and Military Control. Under FULL Civil Control of the Area "C", Israel introduced Settlements, absent progress in Negotiations with Arab Palestinians.
​

As for maps depicting the borders (international):

​

------------------------------------------------------- AND ------------------------------------------------------------------

​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Allied Powers, after the Armistice of Mudros, did not have to wait for anything.

Prior to the 1924 Treaty of Lausanne and the earlier Treaty of Sevres, and before that the 1918 Mudros Armistice, and before even that, the Rule of the Ottoman Empire, there was no seat of government or political subdivision called "Palestine; NOT in a thousand years.

There was no Iraq, Transjordan, Syria, or Lebanon either.

What is your point?

(COMMENT)

While the Allied Powers knew that the Treaty of Sevres was coming, they did not envision the Treaty of Lausanne. All four (Iraq, Transjordan, Syria, or Lebanon) were Mandates and artificial constructs by the Allied Powers; just as Palestine. Palestine was as determined by the Allied Powers. The Arab Palestinians cannot use it as evidence of some claim to the territory. It was not.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Mindful]

You need to keep in mind that there are primarily Jewish settlements in the "west bank" that date back 1000 years and have ALWAYS had a Jewish presence there.

So no border with Palestine. I'm shocked, shocked I say. Perhaps a UNSC resolution would help.

You do realize the Palis had ALL of the west bank when Jordan hosted them? Before they ATTACKED Amman with commandeered tanks and got their butts tossed out of that country. And before Jordan ATTACKED Israel and LOST the West Bank in a war.

Then when it came time to negotiate with Jordan (the rightful owner) -- Jordan just walked away. Had no interest in repeating THEIR experience with the Palis.

That land was captured and taken FROM JORDAN. Jordan renounced claims to it. That's the ONLY WAY it becomes a "border of Palestine"..

The solution could be: give Gaza to Egypt. But they don't want it. Give parts of the WB to Jordan. But they don't want it either. So it's stalemate. Unless the underlying motive is to be a thorn in Israel's flesh.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Allied Powers, after the Armistice of Mudros, did not have to wait for anything.

Prior to the 1924 Treaty of Lausanne and the earlier Treaty of Sevres, and before that the 1918 Mudros Armistice, and before even that, the Rule of the Ottoman Empire, there was no seat of government or political subdivision called "Palestine; NOT in a thousand years.

There was no Iraq, Transjordan, Syria, or Lebanon either.

What is your point?

(COMMENT)

While the Allied Powers knew that the Treaty of Sevres was coming, they did not envision the Treaty of Lausanne. All four (Iraq, Transjordan, Syria, or Lebanon) were Mandates and artificial constructs by the Allied Powers; just as Palestine. Palestine was as determined by the Allied Powers. The Arab Palestinians cannot use it as evidence of some claim to the territory. It was not.

Most Respectfully,
R

Are you saying the the people of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Palestine have no claim to their territory?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Both Labor and Likud governments have funded settlers, many religious extremists, and gifted them the best land.

Meanwhile, Palestinians are denied building approval for homes, even a chicken coop. If in Area C they throw up a granny flat it's promptly demolished by army bulldozers.


The genius of the UN's resolution on Israeli settlements

Just as in the US when you try and build without the correct permits, your building gets demolished and you get the bill.

Do I need a permit from Canada to build in Ohio?

Does Canada have a treaty telling them they can issue such permits, because Israel does and not once have the arab muslims complained about this.


CHALK AND CHEESE again

That is one of the thing that makes Oslo an illegal agreement.

 

[P F Tinmore]

cnm, et al,

Let's see...

See Posting #33, supra.

I haven't been able to find a map of the West Bank/Israel borders in those links. Where is it to be found?

(COMMENTARY w/MAP)

YOUR QUESTION: Why are Israelis settling inside Palestinian borders?

• The Answer: Under the Oslo Accords, the Agreements specified Areas of the West Bank. These specified Areas are used quite frequent, EVEN on the Map in your Posting #42. If you read last box in the legend, you will note that Area "C" is an area under FULL Civil and Military Control. Under FULL Civil Control of the Area "C", Israel introduced Settlements, absent progress in Negotiations with Arab Palestinians.
​

As for maps depicting the borders (international):

View attachment 104100
​

------------------------------------------------------- AND ------------------------------------------------------------------

View attachment 104103
​

Most Respectfully,
R

I love that disclaimer on the bottom of that map.

The designations employed and the presentation of material on this
map do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the
part of the Secretariat of the United Nations concerning the legal
status of any country, territory, city or area or of its authorities or
concerning the delimitation of its frontiers or boundaries.​

There is Israel but they cannot vouch for its legality as a country or the legality of its borders..

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, you are intentionally misleading and misinterpreting what was said.

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Allied Powers, after the Armistice of Mudros, did not have to wait for anything.

Prior to the 1924 Treaty of Lausanne and the earlier Treaty of Sevres, and before that the 1918 Mudros Armistice, and before even that, the Rule of the Ottoman Empire, there was no seat of government or political subdivision called "Palestine; NOT in a thousand years.

There was no Iraq, Transjordan, Syria, or Lebanon either.

What is your point?

(COMMENT)

While the Allied Powers knew that the Treaty of Sevres was coming, they did not envision the Treaty of Lausanne. All four (Iraq, Transjordan, Syria, or Lebanon) were Mandates and artificial constructs by the Allied Powers; just as Palestine. Palestine was as determined by the Allied Powers. The Arab Palestinians cannot use it as evidence of some claim to the territory. It was not.

Most Respectfully,
R

Are you saying the the people of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Palestine have no claim to their territory?

(COMMENT)

• Independence: LEBANON
  22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
• Independence: SYRIA
  17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
• Independence: JORDAN
  25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Independence: IRAQ
  3 October 1932 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration); note - on 28 June 2004 the Coalition Provisional Authority transferred sovereignty to the Iraqi Interim Government
  
• Independence: ISRAEL
  14 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
  
• Independence: EGYPT
  28 February 1922 (from UK protectorate status; the revolution that began on 23 July 1952 led to a republic being declared on 18 June 1953 and all British troops withdrawn on 18 June 1956); note - it was ca. 3200 B.C. that the Two Lands of Upper (southern) and Lower (northern) Egypt were first united politically.

∆ Etymology: WEST BANK refers to the location of the region - occupied and administered by Jordan after 1948 - that fell on the far side (west bank) of the Jordan River in relation to Jordan proper; the designation was retained following the 1967 Six-Day War and the subsequent changes in government

∆ Etymology: GAZA STRIP for the largest city in the region, Gaza, whose settlement can be traced back to at least the 15th century B.C. (as "Ghazzat")
​

The ALLIED POWERS had a deterministic influence on each of the countries and Palestine. The political landscape was not pre-destine to the outcome history record now. There were a half-dozen or more configurations that might have developed.

Most Respectfully,
R