The genius of the UN's resolution on Israeli settlements

[RoccoR]

fanger, Hollie, et al,

Well, we need to look as UN Security Council Resolution 2334 with more objectivity. And for starter, I look a Chapter VI type resolutions (peaceful settlement of disputes) with scepticism and a bit of a Jaundice eye. The International Community knows that resolutions under Chapter VI are not binding; even Security Council resolutions under Chapter VI - UN Charter.

From an American perspective, the Security Council Resolution 2334 is intended to preserve the viability of a two-state solution. But in point of fact, the PLO and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, said that the two-state solution is not longer viable.

Influential Palestinians Say It’s Time for a One-State Solution
Times - By Ilene Prusher / JerusalemMay 24, 2013​

The US over the life of the outgoing Administration has tried to advance the notion that if support shifts to a one-state solution, that Israel will not - cannot be both Jewish and Democratic. Jewishness is a Religious matter and Democracy is a form of government. Jewishness and Democracy are completely separate issues. Currently Israel is both a Jewish State by Religion and a Parliamentary-Republic as a form of Government. It has both Chief Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef --- and --- Yuli Edelstein is the Speaker of the Knesset; with the Knesset Director-General Albert Sakharovich. And of course you have all heard about Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Fatah: UN vote means Fatah will kill Israelis - PMW Bulletins

That is the opinion of one person, Ilan Mazuz, Living in Netivot
Registrant Organization: PMW
Registrant Street: 61 Malchei Israel ST.
Registrant City: Netivot

(COMMENT)

Actually, the "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force," is generally considered true. However, the West Bank was abandon by the Hashemite Kingdom in when July 1988 when "King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank;" essentially rendering the territory to Israel as the only Government having effective control over the West Bank (alla Terra Nullius). Currently, the territory of the Gaza Strip is under the control of HAMAS.

The Palestinian National Project
Fatah does not control the Gaza Strip, which is ruled by its principal rival, Hamas. As the …
​

The Resolution says that Israel must to "abide scrupulously by its legal obligations and responsibilities under the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV)." Thus it implies that all the Articles under the (GCIV) should be applied, including Article 68 GCIV, dealing with the Protected Persons (Arab Palestinians) who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, and those Protected Persons (Arab Palestinians) guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons of any status.

One area of critical concern is this tricky double-cross on delimitation lines. This US backed (Republican Party concept) resolution is that the US will not recognize any changes to the 4 June 1967 lines, including with regard to Jerusalem. Essentially, that is the 1949 Armistice Lines. That is directly supporting the idea that Israel must withdraw to indefensible borders; intensionally undermining Israeli national security.

BUT, there was an unusual set of items (not that anyone is going to pay attention to it) included:

• Recalling also the obligation under the Quartet roadmap for the Palestinian Authority Security Forces to maintain effective operations aimed at confronting all those engaged in terror and dismantling terrorist capabilities, including the confiscation of illegal weapons,

• Calls for immediate steps to prevent all acts of violence against civilians, including acts of terror, as well as all acts of provocation and destruction, calls for accountability in this regard, and calls for compliance with obligations under international law for the strengthening of ongoing efforts to combat terrorism, including through existing security coordination, and to clearly condemn all acts of terrorism;

• observe calm and restraint, and to refrain from provocative actions, incitement and inflammatory rhetoric,
​

It is my opinion that this might be interesting if the issues ever come to court, but I seriously don't think that either Fatah or HAMAS wants that to happen.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

BUT, there was an unusual set of items (not that anyone is going to pay attention to it) included:

• Recalling also the obligation under the Quartet roadmap for the Palestinian Authority Security Forces to maintain effective operations aimed at confronting all those engaged in terror and dismantling terrorist capabilities, including the confiscation of illegal weapons,

• Calls for immediate steps to prevent all acts of violence against civilians, including acts of terror, as well as all acts of provocation and destruction, calls for accountability in this regard, and calls for compliance with obligations under international law for the strengthening of ongoing efforts to combat terrorism, including through existing security coordination, and to clearly condemn all acts of terrorism;

Implementing this violates international and domestic law.

 

[P F Tinmore]

From an American perspective, the Security Council Resolution 2334 is intended to preserve the viability of a two-state solution. But in point of fact, the PLO and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, said that the two-state solution is not longer viable.

Indeed, this resolution is kicking a dead horse and a two state solution is not a requirement in international law.

 

[fanger]

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You epitomize what it means to be an Arab Palestinian.

BUT, there was an unusual set of items (not that anyone is going to pay attention to it) included:

• Recalling also the obligation under the Quartet roadmap for the Palestinian Authority Security Forces to maintain effective operations aimed at confronting all those engaged in terror and dismantling terrorist capabilities, including the confiscation of illegal weapons,

• Calls for immediate steps to prevent all acts of violence against civilians, including acts of terror, as well as all acts of provocation and destruction, calls for accountability in this regard, and calls for compliance with obligations under international law for the strengthening of ongoing efforts to combat terrorism, including through existing security coordination, and to clearly condemn all acts of terrorism;

Implementing this violates international and domestic law.

(QUESTIONs)

•• What International Law is violate?

•• What Domestic Law is violated?

(COMMENT)

Always trying to further the cause of violence. Never working to further the cause of peace.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

Yes, the Israelis are always furthering their expansionism through violence, never working to further the cause of peace. You got it right for once Rocco.

 

[Hollie]

Yes, the Israelis are always furthering their expansionism through violence, never working to further the cause of peace. You got it right for once Rocco.

I'm afraid you have it wrong as usual. Offensive gee-had to be directed at Israel is delineated quite clearly in the Hamas charter. We also have many decades of Islamist behavior including acts of war aimed at Israel with which to reach reasoned conclusions about the goal of the islamic terrorists.

What's comical is you and other gee-had wannabes flailing your Pom Poms for further conflict from behind the safety of your keyboard. Your cowardly gee-had of none.

 

[P F Tinmore]

•• What International Law is violate?

•• What Domestic Law is violated?

As you should know, the Palestinian constitution has a bill of rights similar to, and I would say more comprehensive than, the US constitution.

The so called security coordination requires the PA (which is an illegal government anyway.) to spy on it citizens without court issued warrants. It requires them to arrest people who have committed no crime and without court issued warrants. They hold people in jail without charge or trial. They torture people and some have been tortured to death. Their employment, and other practices, are based on political affiliation.

These are all violation of their constitution and several violate international law.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Actually, the "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force," is generally considered true.

Indeed, and all of Israel was acquired by military force.

 

[Hollie]

Actually, the "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force," is generally considered true.

Indeed, and all of Israel was acquired by military force.

Indeed, you're forever befuddled. Indeed, Israel was created with defense of its sovereign territory from the assault of Islamist armies.

Indeed, you have a deficit of historical knowledge.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Actually, the "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force," is generally considered true.

Indeed, and all of Israel was acquired by military force.

Indeed, you're forever befuddled. Indeed, Israel was created with defense of its sovereign territory from the assault of Islamist armies.

Indeed, you have a deficit of historical knowledge.

Israeli bullshit. That is not true.

 

[Hollie]

Actually, the "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force," is generally considered true.

Indeed, and all of Israel was acquired by military force.

Indeed, you're forever befuddled. Indeed, Israel was created with defense of its sovereign territory from the assault of Islamist armies.

Indeed, you have a deficit of historical knowledge.

Israeli bullshit. That is not true.

That that's pretty darn funny. Another conspiracy theory of yours?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Actually, the "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force," is generally considered true.

Indeed, and all of Israel was acquired by military force.

Indeed, you're forever befuddled. Indeed, Israel was created with defense of its sovereign territory from the assault of Islamist armies.

Indeed, you have a deficit of historical knowledge.

Israeli bullshit. That is not true.

That that's pretty darn funny. Another conspiracy theory of yours?

All you know is Israeli bullshit.

According to Morris's estimates, 250,000 to 300,000 Palestinians left Israel during this stage.[7]:262 "Keesing's Contemporary Archives" in London place the total number of refugees before Israel's independence at 300,000.[53]

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia​

Israel's colonial war against the Palestinians started months before the Arab armies entered Palestine. The Zionist military was attacking Palestinian civilians and stealing their land before the start of the 1948 war.

 

[Eloy]

Both Labor and Likud governments have funded settlers, many religious extremists, and gifted them the best land.

Meanwhile, Palestinians are denied building approval for homes, even a chicken coop. If in Area C they throw up a granny flat it's promptly demolished by army bulldozers.


The genius of the UN's resolution on Israeli settlements

For decades the United States protected Zionist Israel from censure by the UN Security Council and this policy has changed now. What took the Americans so long, one has to wonder, since international law was so clear about the settlements being illegal when they were first created. Better late than never, I suppose. I, for one, never thought Obama had it in him to cross the Zionists.

 

[Hollie]

Actually, the "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force," is generally considered true.

Indeed, and all of Israel was acquired by military force.

Indeed, you're forever befuddled. Indeed, Israel was created with defense of its sovereign territory from the assault of Islamist armies.

Indeed, you have a deficit of historical knowledge.

Israeli bullshit. That is not true.

That that's pretty darn funny. Another conspiracy theory of yours?

All you know is Israeli bullshit.

According to Morris's estimates, 250,000 to 300,000 Palestinians left Israel during this stage.[7]:262 "Keesing's Contemporary Archives" in London place the total number of refugees before Israel's independence at 300,000.[53]

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia​

Israel's colonial war against the Palestinians started months before the Arab armies entered Palestine. The Zionist military was attacking Palestinian civilians and stealing their land before the start of the 1948 war.

You might want to scour wiki for some data regarding the Islamist armies pushing aside the Arab-Moslem colonists in their coordinated attempt to push the Israelis into the sea. History tells us that the muhammedan armies didn't fare well.

Any other conspiracy theories you'd like to entertain us with?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Indeed, and all of Israel was acquired by military force.

Indeed, you're forever befuddled. Indeed, Israel was created with defense of its sovereign territory from the assault of Islamist armies.

Indeed, you have a deficit of historical knowledge.

Israeli bullshit. That is not true.

That that's pretty darn funny. Another conspiracy theory of yours?

All you know is Israeli bullshit.

According to Morris's estimates, 250,000 to 300,000 Palestinians left Israel during this stage.[7]:262 "Keesing's Contemporary Archives" in London place the total number of refugees before Israel's independence at 300,000.[53]

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia​

Israel's colonial war against the Palestinians started months before the Arab armies entered Palestine. The Zionist military was attacking Palestinian civilians and stealing their land before the start of the 1948 war.

You might want to scour wiki for some data regarding the Islamist armies pushing aside the Arab-Moslem colonists in their coordinated attempt to push the Israelis into the sea. History tells us that the muhammedan armies didn't fare well.

Any other conspiracy theories you'd like to entertain us with?

You wouldn't have any links to all of that crap, would you?

 

[American_Jihad]

Both Labor and Likud governments have funded settlers, many religious extremists, and gifted them the best land.

Meanwhile, Palestinians are denied building approval for homes, even a chicken coop. If in Area C they throw up a granny flat it's promptly demolished by army bulldozers.


The genius of the UN's resolution on Israeli settlements

...
Housing Units and Double Standards
Where is Obama’s outrage at the Palestinians building 15,000 illegal housing units?
December 30, 2016
Joseph Puder

...

A special regime between Israel and the Palestinians is set out in a series of agreements negotiated between 1993 and 1999 that are still valid – that govern all issues between them, settlements included. In this framework there is no specific provision restricting planning, zoning, and continued construction by either party. The Palestinians cannot now invoke the Geneva Convention regime in order to bypass previous internationally acknowledged agreements.”

Naturally, nothing has been said by the Obama administration about the illegal Arab-Palestinian construction of settlements in the West Bank and Jerusalem. Bassam Tawil, a Gatestone Institute scholar based in the Middle East pointed out that, “Apparently, settlements are only a ‘major obstacle to peace’ when they are constructed by Jews. The EU and some Islamic governments and organizations are paying for the construction of illegal Palestinian settlements, while demanding that Israel halt building new homes for Jewish families in Jerusalem neighborhoods or existing settlements in the West Bank. The hypocrisy and raw malice of the EU and the rest of the international community toward the issue of Israeli settlements is blindingly transparent. Yet we are also witnessing the hypocrisy of many in the Western mainstream media, who see with their own eyes the Palestinian settlements rising on every side of Jerusalem, but choose to report only about Jewish building.”

Tawil rhetorically asked “Who is behind the unprecedented wave of illegal construction? According to Arab residents of Jerusalem, many of the ‘contractors’ are actually land-thieves and thugs who lay their hands on private Palestinian-owned land or on lands whose owners are living abroad. But they also point out that the EU, the PLO and some Arab and Islamic governments are funding the project. ‘They spot an empty plot of land and quickly move in to seize control over it,’ said a resident whose land was confiscated by the illegal contractors.”

Arab-Palestinian construction is not only illegal but unsafe as well. While the construction of Jewish settlements in Judea and Samaria has long been carried out with proper licenses, and within the framework of the law, the Arab-Palestinian construction does not begin to meet even the minimum standards required by engineers, architects, and housing planners. The Palestinian Authority’s (PA) goal is to create irreversible facts on the ground. Moreover, half the apartments built remain empty, in spite of the ludicrous price tag of $25,000 - $50,000 per unit, when comparable Jewish housing is $250,000 and up. The answer is, of course, the EU funding. These homes have been built without permits, corroborated by the fact that unauthorized or illegal building by Palestinians is an ongoing problem in Area C, solely under Israeli control.

It is the same EU countries who voted to declare the Western Wall of Solomon’s Temple , and the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem as “Palestinian territory” at last Friday’s vote (December 23, 2016), funded Palestinian housing, while repeatedly condemning Israeli construction due to family enlargement. Yet, in the Oslo Accords framework there is no specific provision restricting planning, zoning, and continued construction by either party in Judea and Samaria. The difference is that Jewish construction is done lawfully, legally, and safe, while the Palestinian construction is unlawful, unsafe, and serves one purpose only - to avoid negotiating with Israel a peaceful disposition of the territories called Judea and Samaria.

The UN, Britain and the Obama administration expressed outrage last October at Israel’s plan to construct 300 new homes in Judea and Samaria, but no such outrage at the genocide in Syria, or the building of 15,000 illegal Palestinian housing units in areas surrounding Jerusalem as part of a plan to encircle the city. The Obama administrations deliberate abstention in last Friday’s vote, which was akin to voting “yes” for this notoriously anti-Israel biased resolution, is inimical to Israeli-Palestinian peace, and will serve to further encourage the PA to incite against the Jewish state, while avoiding a negotiated settlement with Israel. It also exposes the double-standard used by the Obama administration in dealing with Israel.

Housing Units and Double Standards

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is all well and good.

Actually, the "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force," is generally considered true.

Indeed, and all of Israel was acquired by military force.

Indeed, you're forever befuddled. Indeed, Israel was created with defense of its sovereign territory from the assault of Islamist armies.

Indeed, you have a deficit of historical knowledge.

Israeli bullshit. That is not true.

That that's pretty darn funny. Another conspiracy theory of yours?

All you know is Israeli bullshit.

According to Morris's estimates, 250,000 to 300,000 Palestinians left Israel during this stage.[7]:262 "Keesing's Contemporary Archives" in London place the total number of refugees before Israel's independence at 300,000.[53]

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia​

Israel's colonial war against the Palestinians started months before the Arab armies entered Palestine. The Zionist military was attacking Palestinian civilians and stealing their land before the start of the 1948 war.

(COMMENT)

The allegations of "acquisition of territory by force" is not applicable to the period prior to May 1948. That would be (as you imply) a dispute between Palestinian Factions. This period is an example of a disputed between Civil War Factions on a matter of "self-determination."

No matter what the numbers would be (conservatively or exaggerated), we are talking about the "NAKBA" in the period of Civil War from December 1947 to May 1948 and then Civil War from May 1948 until the cessation of hostilities in (generally speaking) January 1949.

The Questions is:

• Was there binding international law—international treaties or customary international law (“CIL”).

There was a compelling argument that up through the time of the 1947–49 conflict and beyond (no matter what the international community might think today about these practices), forced transfers or expulsions of ethnic minorities were common and, --- there was very little (if any) CIL requiring repatriation in the aftermath of a forced expulsion.

Two examples from two different nations.

• Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR): The declaration is not a law, so therefore, in some cases has had very little real impact on infringements to any of the rights outlined in it, in China there still is limited freedom of speech as the Governments has poor human rights records and do not agree with the UN's attempts to promote human rights. SOURCE: The Law Teacher, Academic legal writing services,

• Canada and the Adoption of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: He clearly distinguished the Declaration from a human rights treaty, which was also being considered and which would, in contrast with the Declaration, bind states that ratified or acceded to it. Humphrey also sought to appease Parliamentarians by insisting upon the non-binding nature of the Declaration, stating: "a resolution of the General Assembly has no binding effect on international law," although he added prudently: "I think it would be an element in the building up of international jurisprudence. You cannot take it for granted that it would have no legal significance at all." The Committee requested that provincial attorneys general and heads of Canadian law schools be solicited for their views on the power of the Federal Parliament to enact a comprehensive bill of rights applicable to all of Canada, and recommended that a joint committee be appointed to resume its work at the next session.'
SOURCE: MCGILL LAW JOURNAL / REVUE DE DROIT DE MCGILL, Vol 43, pg 412
​

Most of the justification for RoR is based on treaties, declarations, and state practice are used to derive a rights for the displaced by AND, then retroactively applied to the conflict in 1947–49, when very different legal rules applied.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

This period is an example of a disputed between Civil War Factions on a matter of "self-determination."

An attack on the natives by foreign colonialists is not a civil war.

forced transfers or expulsions of ethnic minorities were common and, --- there was very little (if any) CIL requiring repatriation in the aftermath of a forced expulsion.

Not true. The rules of state succession and the UN Charter were in force.

 

[montelatici]

Both Labor and Likud governments have funded settlers, many religious extremists, and gifted them the best land.

Meanwhile, Palestinians are denied building approval for homes, even a chicken coop. If in Area C they throw up a granny flat it's promptly demolished by army bulldozers.


The genius of the UN's resolution on Israeli settlements

...
Housing Units and Double Standards
Where is Obama’s outrage at the Palestinians building 15,000 illegal housing units?
December 30, 2016
Joseph Puder

...

A special regime between Israel and the Palestinians is set out in a series of agreements negotiated between 1993 and 1999 that are still valid – that govern all issues between them, settlements included. In this framework there is no specific provision restricting planning, zoning, and continued construction by either party. The Palestinians cannot now invoke the Geneva Convention regime in order to bypass previous internationally acknowledged agreements.”

Naturally, nothing has been said by the Obama administration about the illegal Arab-Palestinian construction of settlements in the West Bank and Jerusalem. Bassam Tawil, a Gatestone Institute scholar based in the Middle East pointed out that, “Apparently, settlements are only a ‘major obstacle to peace’ when they are constructed by Jews. The EU and some Islamic governments and organizations are paying for the construction of illegal Palestinian settlements, while demanding that Israel halt building new homes for Jewish families in Jerusalem neighborhoods or existing settlements in the West Bank. The hypocrisy and raw malice of the EU and the rest of the international community toward the issue of Israeli settlements is blindingly transparent. Yet we are also witnessing the hypocrisy of many in the Western mainstream media, who see with their own eyes the Palestinian settlements rising on every side of Jerusalem, but choose to report only about Jewish building.”

Tawil rhetorically asked “Who is behind the unprecedented wave of illegal construction? According to Arab residents of Jerusalem, many of the ‘contractors’ are actually land-thieves and thugs who lay their hands on private Palestinian-owned land or on lands whose owners are living abroad. But they also point out that the EU, the PLO and some Arab and Islamic governments are funding the project. ‘They spot an empty plot of land and quickly move in to seize control over it,’ said a resident whose land was confiscated by the illegal contractors.”

Arab-Palestinian construction is not only illegal but unsafe as well. While the construction of Jewish settlements in Judea and Samaria has long been carried out with proper licenses, and within the framework of the law, the Arab-Palestinian construction does not begin to meet even the minimum standards required by engineers, architects, and housing planners. The Palestinian Authority’s (PA) goal is to create irreversible facts on the ground. Moreover, half the apartments built remain empty, in spite of the ludicrous price tag of $25,000 - $50,000 per unit, when comparable Jewish housing is $250,000 and up. The answer is, of course, the EU funding. These homes have been built without permits, corroborated by the fact that unauthorized or illegal building by Palestinians is an ongoing problem in Area C, solely under Israeli control.

It is the same EU countries who voted to declare the Western Wall of Solomon’s Temple , and the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem as “Palestinian territory” at last Friday’s vote (December 23, 2016), funded Palestinian housing, while repeatedly condemning Israeli construction due to family enlargement. Yet, in the Oslo Accords framework there is no specific provision restricting planning, zoning, and continued construction by either party in Judea and Samaria. The difference is that Jewish construction is done lawfully, legally, and safe, while the Palestinian construction is unlawful, unsafe, and serves one purpose only - to avoid negotiating with Israel a peaceful disposition of the territories called Judea and Samaria.

The UN, Britain and the Obama administration expressed outrage last October at Israel’s plan to construct 300 new homes in Judea and Samaria, but no such outrage at the genocide in Syria, or the building of 15,000 illegal Palestinian housing units in areas surrounding Jerusalem as part of a plan to encircle the city. The Obama administrations deliberate abstention in last Friday’s vote, which was akin to voting “yes” for this notoriously anti-Israel biased resolution, is inimical to Israeli-Palestinian peace, and will serve to further encourage the PA to incite against the Jewish state, while avoiding a negotiated settlement with Israel. It also exposes the double-standard used by the Obama administration in dealing with Israel.

Housing Units and Double Standards

You are a hoot, and it explains how you bastards think we are so darn stupid you can spout any sort of propaganda you want. Even if true, and I doubt it, the Jews are building on occupied territory, the Palestinians are not building in Israel.