The Genesis Conflict - 102 - A Universal Flood

[CrusaderFrank]

Every major civilization from the Aztecs to the Chinese have a legend of a Great Flood so clearly it probably happened

600MYA almost all the species on Earth were wiped out and at the same time the planet Venus seems to have had its surface totally remodeled.

The miracle is how relatively quiet Earth keeps our environment, with just an occasional hiccup. These little occasional hiccups typically destroy 98% of all life on Earth

 

[Youwerecreated]

Joe already squashed the entire video, that's why I'm trying to get you to respond to his post, which you refuse to.

You show me where he did that or is this just one more example of ignorance ?

It's the very first reply in this thread. He shreds every second of the video.

Now please reply to his points and scientifically state how he's wrong.

This time please don't tell me 2 T-Rex's can fit in a 10 inch box as your explanation. At least try.

Exaggerating again !

 

[Youwerecreated]

Joe already squashed the entire video, that's why I'm trying to get you to respond to his post, which you refuse to.

You show me where he did that or is this just one more example of ignorance ?

It's the very first reply in this thread. He shreds every second of the video.

Now please reply to his points and scientifically state how he's wrong.

This time please don't tell me 2 T-Rex's can fit in a 10 inch box as your explanation. At least try.

Once again I don't see what you're referring to please point it out.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Joe already squashed the entire video, that's why I'm trying to get you to respond to his post, which you refuse to.

You show me where he did that or is this just one more example of ignorance ?

It's the very first reply in this thread. He shreds every second of the video.

Now please reply to his points and scientifically state how he's wrong.

This time please don't tell me 2 T-Rex's can fit in a 10 inch box as your explanation. At least try.

If they don't know exactly how many animals there are on the earth today how would they know 5,000 years ago. ?

Some Rough Estimates of Species Numbers

The estimated number of animals on our planet falls somewhere in the vast range of 3-30 million species (Erwin 1983, Wolosz 1988).

Animals - How Many Animal Species Inhabit Our Planet

Guessing again are they ?

 

[Dr.Drock]

You show me where he did that or is this just one more example of ignorance ?

It's the very first reply in this thread. He shreds every second of the video.

Now please reply to his points and scientifically state how he's wrong.

This time please don't tell me 2 T-Rex's can fit in a 10 inch box as your explanation. At least try.

Once again I don't see what you're referring to please point it out.

Ridiculous...

Besides the dubious evidence presented, the story in Genesis 6-9 is just plain silly.

To start with, if the way that animals survived was by taking a pair of every species, you would need to have a boat big enough to contain one million terrestrial animal species. And you would need hundreds of people to tend to them, and lots of space for one years worth of food for them. You see the logistical problem.

Yet we are to believe that 8 people tended to 2 million animals in a huge boat. (By way of comparison, Brookfeild Zoo in Chicago has a staff of 400 people to tend to only a few thousand animals.)

Of course, if the flood produced enough rain to cover every mountain, then the air would be so thin that Noah and all his animals would suffocate.

Then you have the problem of after the flood. All the animals get out... Which means each animal species (including the people) would then descend from a single pair of parents... you'd have those inbreeding problems. And the predators would start picking off the herbivores... The herbivores would have nothing to eat because all the plants drowned, and the saline content of the soild would have increased as the waters receded...

Do I need to go on?

But here's my biggest problem, and it's the one that started with the nun who said that it was right for God to drown every baby in the world because they were "wiiiiiicked".

What kind of God drowns fucking babies and still expects to be called "good"? He just comes off like a Cosmic Andrea Yates, and that woman was crazy.

There it is in bold.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Every major civilization from the Aztecs to the Chinese have a legend of a Great Flood so clearly it probably happened

600MYA almost all the species on Earth were wiped out and at the same time the planet Venus seems to have had its surface totally remodeled.

The miracle is how relatively quiet Earth keeps our environment, with just an occasional hiccup. These little occasional hiccups typically destroy 98% of all life on Earth

Every major civilization also thought the world was flat.




Luckily in that case and the case with the great flood myths, we have science to thank for making a mockery of those fairy tales.

 

[The Infidel]

 

[Youwerecreated]

Every major civilization from the Aztecs to the Chinese have a legend of a Great Flood so clearly it probably happened

600MYA almost all the species on Earth were wiped out and at the same time the planet Venus seems to have had its surface totally remodeled.

The miracle is how relatively quiet Earth keeps our environment, with just an occasional hiccup. These little occasional hiccups typically destroy 98% of all life on Earth

Every major civilization also thought the world was flat.




Luckily in that case and the case with the great flood myths, we have science to thank for making a mockery of those fairy tales.

Wrong flat earthers came from evolutionist taking scripture out of context.

Yes it was a fairytale but please blame the correct people.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Every major civilization from the Aztecs to the Chinese have a legend of a Great Flood so clearly it probably happened

600MYA almost all the species on Earth were wiped out and at the same time the planet Venus seems to have had its surface totally remodeled.

The miracle is how relatively quiet Earth keeps our environment, with just an occasional hiccup. These little occasional hiccups typically destroy 98% of all life on Earth

Every major civilization also thought the world was flat.




Luckily in that case and the case with the great flood myths, we have science to thank for making a mockery of those fairy tales.

Once again I must point out your ignorance and your biased attitude just like the ones who actually created the myth.


The Myth of the Flat Earth


Introduction
We all know that Christopher Columbus encountered stiff resistance about his idea of sailing off West to try and reach the East Indies. Many of us have laboured under the impression that people were concerned that he would sail off the edge of the Earth which was widely believed to be flat. History is thought to have vindicated Columbus against those filled with the Christian superstition of a flat Earth who held on to old fashioned beliefs. A minority of people are even under the impression that Galileo's trial centred on the subject rather than whether the Earth orbited the sun.

It comes as some surprise, therefore, to find that Columbus was wrong and his critics were right - not because the world is actually flat after all, but because at the time everyone knew it was a globe and were arguing about how big it was. The idea that the uncouth people of the Middle Ages thought the Earth was flat is an example of the myth that has been propagated since the nineteenth century to give us a quite unfair view of this vibrant and exciting period.

Christopher Columbus
So what was Columbus's mistake? The disagreement between him and his critics was over the size of the world - not an easy thing to measure. The story of this controversy can be traced back to the ancient Greeks and the various ways their writings were transmitted to the West.

The Greeks had tried hard to find out how large the Earth is and managed to calculate many different figures depending on the methods and accuracy of their work. The most famous effort today is that of Eratosthenes, Librarian of Alexandria, who wrote a treatise On the Measurement of the Earth (now lost) in which he gave a figure for the Earth's circumference of 250,000 stadia. Depending on how long a stadia actually was this is the equivalent of about 23,000 miles, creditably close to the true figure of 24,900 miles. However, given his method involved pacing out the distance between two points 500 miles apart, we must allow that he enjoyed a good deal of luck as well.

At the time Eratosthenes's result did not demand universal assent and was widely seen as too big. A more popular figure is that given in by Strabo and Ptolemy, two distinguished Greek geographers of around the first century AD who both suggested 180,000 stadia. We are not sure where they got their figures from but they were repeated by the Latin writer Seneca who transmitted them to the medieval West. By the time that it became a live issue for Columbus, Eratosthenes' figure was back in vogue and the experts were wisely urging the Italian not to set sail. In particular a committee set up in Salamanca examined the plans and rejected them on the grounds that Columbus had underestimated the distance he would have to travel. Their concern is easy to understand - imagine how much trouble Columbus would have been in if the Americas had not been there. He could not possibly have survived the trip all the way to the east coast of Asia and was very lucky that some land intervened before he and his crew had to pay for his mistake. In the end, however, Queen Isabella of Spain was won over and donated the resources required.

It is not difficult to see how the story of Columbus was adapted so that he became the figure of progress rather than a lucky man who profited from his error. According to Jeffrey Burton Russell here, the invention of the flat Earth myth can be laid at the feet of Washington Irving, who included it in his historical novel on Columbus, and the wider idea that the everyone in the Middle Ages was deluded has been widely accepted ever since.

The Real Flat Earthers
The myth that Christians in the Middle Ages thought the world was flat was given a massive boost by Andrew Dickson White's weighty tome The Warfare of Science with Theology. This book has become something of a running joke among historians of science and it is dutifully mentioned as a prime example of misinformation in the preface of most modern works on science and religion. The flat Earth is discussed in chapter 2 and one can almost sense White's confusion that hardly any of the sources support his hypothesis that Christians widely believed in it. He finds himself grudgingly admitting that Clement, Origen, Ambrose, Augustine, Isodore, Albertus Magnus and Aquinas all accepted the Earth was a globe - in other words none of the great doctors of the church had considered the matter in doubt. Although an analysis of what White actually says suggests he was aware that the flat Earth was largely a myth, he certainly gives an impression of ignorant Christians suppressing rational knowledge of its real shape.

Luckily for White there were then, as there are now, a few fringe writers who could be counted upon to support any point of view no matter how wild. Cosmas Indicopleustes was one such man. He was a merchant traveller who retired to become a monk in the Egyptian desert where he wrote a treatise on Christian Topology that included his flat Earth cosmology. It was widely ignored at the time and Christian scholars like John Philoponus derided it as the work of an uneducated fool. So it was and it was soon forgotten. Because it was written in Greek, it was unavailable and unknown in the Latin West where, contrary to White's insinuations, it had no influence at all. First published with a Latin translation only in 1776, the book has since gained far wider recognition that it ever had in its day.

Lactantius was another church father who did seem sure the earth was flat but no one paid much attention to him either. Other early Christians may well have simply been using common language that we still use today. Saying "to the ends of the earth", "the four corners of the world" or "the sun sank into the sea" does not make you a flat Earther and we should treat ancient people with the same generosity. What can be stated categorically was that a flat Earth was at no time ever an element of Christian doctrine and that no one was ever persecuted or pressurised into believing it. This is interesting because the Bible itself implies the Earth is flat (for example at Daniel 4:11 or 4:8 in Catholic Bibles) and most of its writers (certainly those of the Old Testament) probably thought so. Clearly, belief in the complete scientific accuracy of the scriptures against known facts was not upheld by the early or medieval church who were happy to accept a figurative interpretation. You can read a full analysis of the different writers who have mentioned the shape of the earth in the e-book The Flat Earth by 'Ethical Atheist'.

Anti-clerical history of science writers have promulgated the myth so that even today, in his book The Discoverers, Daniel Boorstin manages to produce a totally misleading account (although he eventually gets Columbus right). His bias shows badly when he castigates Christians for thinking the world was flat when they did not and then praises the erudition of Chinese geographers who actually did believe it. The myth is so prevalent that the blurb on the back cover of the UK version of Umberto Eco's Serendipities, the editor repeats the myth even though within the book itself, Eco devotes a good deal of attention to debunking it!

The doyen of historians of Medieval Science, Edward Grant, covers the issue in his new book, God and Reason in the Middle Ages where he finds all educated people in the Middle Ages were well aware the Earth was a sphere. Perhaps today we can at last dispense with this patronising belief about the Christian Middle Ages.


The Myth of the Flat Earth

 

[Iridescence]

Ridiculous...

Besides the dubious evidence presented, the story in Genesis 6-9 is just plain silly.

To start with, if the way that animals survived was by taking a pair of every species, you would need to have a boat big enough to contain one million terrestrial animal species. And you would need hundreds of people to tend to them, and lots of space for one years worth of food for them. You see the logistical problem.

Yet we are to believe that 8 people tended to 2 million animals in a huge boat. (By way of comparison, Brookfeild Zoo in Chicago has a staff of 400 people to tend to only a few thousand animals.)

Of course, if the flood produced enough rain to cover every mountain, then the air would be so thin that Noah and all his animals would suffocate.

Then you have the problem of after the flood. All the animals get out... Which means each animal species (including the people) would then descend from a single pair of parents... you'd have those inbreeding problems. And the predators would start picking off the herbivores... The herbivores would have nothing to eat because all the plants drowned, and the saline content of the soild would have increased as the waters receded...

Do I need to go on?

But here's my biggest problem, and it's the one that started with the nun who said that it was right for God to drown every baby in the world because they were "wiiiiiicked".

What kind of God drowns fucking babies and still expects to be called "good"? He just comes off like a Cosmic Andrea Yates, and that woman was crazy.

How about you think a little deeper about what Genesis is saying that led up to the flood... do you really interpret the 'wickedness' written about is a mere 'state of man's heart'... Could you possibly expand your understanding to better realize that the genetics of the people within the land was beyond the help of God, the love of God... and not because He could not or would not deliver them from their condition, it was instead because their insist rejection of Him and His aide?

Really, it is said to be the shame of 'us' that so many seem to stop thinking at the mere first sight of scripture... but once it has been given to them to see further, to understand better... it is then on their own heads. We have an amazing world within our grasp and so much is given freely...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Every major civilization from the Aztecs to the Chinese have a legend of a Great Flood so clearly it probably happened

600MYA almost all the species on Earth were wiped out and at the same time the planet Venus seems to have had its surface totally remodeled.

The miracle is how relatively quiet Earth keeps our environment, with just an occasional hiccup. These little occasional hiccups typically destroy 98% of all life on Earth

Every major civilization also thought the world was flat.

Luckily in that case and the case with the great flood myths, we have science to thank for making a mockery of those fairy tales.

Science also tells us that were genetically the same for 250,000 years yet we only "discovered" a practical way to harness electricity 80 years ago?

Hmmmm, sounds like our Progress has been disrupted, more than once, in the recent past.

Also, you're quite wrong about a Flat Earth, that was just the view of the Church who still does the thinking for a lot of people "Scientists" included.

 

[LOki]

Wrong flat earthers came from evolutionist taking scripture out of context.

A lie. Literally. Creationists who say actual science confirms Biblical science take scripture out of context.

Yes it was a fairytale but please blame the correct people.

Creationists are the fairy tale spinners.

 

[LOki]

Every major civilization from the Aztecs to the Chinese have a legend of a Great Flood so clearly it probably happened

600MYA almost all the species on Earth were wiped out and at the same time the planet Venus seems to have had its surface totally remodeled.

The miracle is how relatively quiet Earth keeps our environment, with just an occasional hiccup. These little occasional hiccups typically destroy 98% of all life on Earth

Every major civilization also thought the world was flat.




Luckily in that case and the case with the great flood myths, we have science to thank for making a mockery of those fairy tales.

Once again I must point out your ignorance and your biased attitude just like the ones who actually created the myth.


The Myth of the Flat Earth


Introduction
We all know that Christopher Columbus encountered stiff resistance about his idea of sailing off West to try and reach the East Indies. Many of us have laboured under the impression that people were concerned that he would sail off the edge of the Earth which was widely believed to be flat. History is tho

--SNIPPED--​

The Myth of the Flat Earth

The Flat Earth Bible

No evolution scientists here.

 

[Iridescence]

When I see references made to a "flat earth"... It reminds me of individuals who insist on being co-linear without regard to the other areas that are obviously influential within the psyche of man... Why must people continually argue in circles around the truth instead of hearing their own words for what they potentially are revealing without even being aware?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Every major civilization also thought the world was flat.




Luckily in that case and the case with the great flood myths, we have science to thank for making a mockery of those fairy tales.

Once again I must point out your ignorance and your biased attitude just like the ones who actually created the myth.


The Myth of the Flat Earth


Introduction
We all know that Christopher Columbus encountered stiff resistance about his idea of sailing off West to try and reach the East Indies. Many of us have laboured under the impression that people were concerned that he would sail off the edge of the Earth which was widely believed to be flat. History is tho

--SNIPPED--​

The Myth of the Flat Earth

The Flat Earth Bible

No evolution scientists here.

You attribute one loony group with all of Christianity.

Here I am gonna give you something to think about.

Forbidden History: Dinosaurs and the Bible

 

[Youwerecreated]

Every major civilization also thought the world was flat.




Luckily in that case and the case with the great flood myths, we have science to thank for making a mockery of those fairy tales.

Once again I must point out your ignorance and your biased attitude just like the ones who actually created the myth.


The Myth of the Flat Earth


Introduction
We all know that Christopher Columbus encountered stiff resistance about his idea of sailing off West to try and reach the East Indies. Many of us have laboured under the impression that people were concerned that he would sail off the edge of the Earth which was widely believed to be flat. History is tho

--SNIPPED--​

The Myth of the Flat Earth

The Flat Earth Bible

No evolution scientists here.

Give me the verses that you claim teaches that the earth is flat and I will show you they have been taken out of context.

 

[JoeB131]

How about you think a little deeper about what Genesis is saying that led up to the flood... do you really interpret the 'wickedness' written about is a mere 'state of man's heart'... Could you possibly expand your understanding to better realize that the genetics of the people within the land was beyond the help of God, the love of God... and not because He could not or would not deliver them from their condition, it was instead because their insist rejection of Him and His aide?

Really, it is said to be the shame of 'us' that so many seem to stop thinking at the mere first sight of scripture... but once it has been given to them to see further, to understand better... it is then on their own heads. We have an amazing world within our grasp and so much is given freely...

Actually, I have thought about it. The bible said God was upset because the "Sons of God" or "Sons of Heaven" or "Elophim" went to Earth and did the nasty with human women. Which means, I guess, that angels have penises, which seems kind of unnecessary, really.

So really, that justifed God drowning every man, woman, child, infant, kitten, Puppy, in the world. Realy.

I thought that was Bullshit when Sister Mary Butch said it when I was 11. It has not gotten less BS in the last 38 years...

 

[Iridescence]

OMGorsh... And so with your all-encompassing and painfully profound biblical reasoning, dear Joe... you have a ready understanding as to just whom the said 'sons of God' were? What they represented to the land, the people?

 

[JoeB131]

OMGorsh... And so with your all-encompassing and painfully profound biblical reasoning, dear Joe... you have a ready understanding as to just whom the said 'sons of God' were? What they represented to the land, the people?

I truly don't give a flip because it's mythology. It's a myth written by bronze age savages who didn't know what a germ was or where the sun went at night.

My point is, a God who is omnipotent and can do anything, and his go to solution to a problem is, "Fuck it, let's drown everyone, including the babies" isn't worthy of my worship even if he did exist.

And I am very thankful he doesn't. If there is a God, it isn't that guy.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Every major civilization from the Aztecs to the Chinese have a legend of a Great Flood so clearly it probably happened

600MYA almost all the species on Earth were wiped out and at the same time the planet Venus seems to have had its surface totally remodeled.

The miracle is how relatively quiet Earth keeps our environment, with just an occasional hiccup. These little occasional hiccups typically destroy 98% of all life on Earth

Every major civilization also thought the world was flat.

Luckily in that case and the case with the great flood myths, we have science to thank for making a mockery of those fairy tales.

Science also tells us that were genetically the same for 250,000 years yet we only "discovered" a practical way to harness electricity 80 years ago?

Hmmmm, sounds like our Progress has been disrupted, more than once, in the recent past.

Also, you're quite wrong about a Flat Earth, that was just the view of the Church who still does the thinking for a lot of people "Scientists" included.

So since rabbits have been the same for thousands of years should they be out driving Hondas to get from hole to hole?

The Bible says the earth is flat, the links are already provided. It says repeatedly that there's 4 corners, makes mention of the ends of the earth and also says the earth can't be moved despite it constantly moving.