The Five Stages of Collapse

Discussion in 'Economy' started by NOBama, Nov 26, 2008.

  1. NOBama
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    NOBama Senior Member

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    More

    No comment. Yet.
     
  2. AVG-JOE
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    AVG-JOE American Mutt Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Damn! There are a lot of 'Russian Scholars' predicting the demise of the American Union of States...

    Comparisons to the old Soviet Union are a stretch in my opinion, but it is still weird.

    -Joe
     
  3. NOBama
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    NOBama Senior Member

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    I haven't had a chance to read the whole article yet, but the opening paragraphs were interesting. That's a long peice, man!
     
  4. DavidS
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    DavidS Anti-Tea Party Member

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    Russian scholars is an oxymoron.
     
  5. NOBama
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    NOBama Senior Member

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    I just tried reading this whole article. I only got to item #4. The more of it I read the more it reminded me of Penn & Teller: Bullshit!

    Sorry people, I should have read the whole thing before posting it, because I wouldn't have.
     
  6. Zoomie1980
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    Zoomie1980 Senior Member

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    There are absolutely NO parallels between the Soviet Union of the 1980's and the United States, today. Not a single one.
     
  7. Toro
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    Toro Diamond Member

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    exactly
     
  8. NOBama
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    NOBama Senior Member

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    Ya got me fella's, and on behalf of the board, I dealt with my error swiftly.















    [​IMG]












    Have a nice day boys, and thank you for espousing your infinite wisdom with respect to your conformation of a previously admitted error on my part.
     
  9. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Those of you who are dismissing this simple because the author is Russian, are being foolish, I think.

    Speaking as somebody who has also spend an inordinate amount of time reading about the collapse of societies, I have to tell you the guy does make sense.

    Societies organize around certain basic premises. Their economic systems (whatever system they develop) are chiefly based on those suppositions AND PHILOSOPHIES.

    The economic system is, among other things, a diagnostic tool to tell you how healthy our society really is.

    When the economics of that society go awry, either for some outside reason like an ecological disaster, or because the social cohesion has eroded over time because the elite have forgotten that they are merely part of the social contact, and not the point of that entire society, then the breakdown of that society is pretty much inevitable.

    I believe I have described this event horizon as STUFF STOPS WORKING, many times on this board.

    Now I want you all to think about this question for a while before you all kneejerk into optimist mode and tell me that I am a cynic.

    How often have you encountered some aspect of our society which you simply KNOW no longer makes sense?

    For example, your interactions with local state or federal government.

    How often have you been interacting with those and thought to yourself:

    What are they talking about? I sent them the paperwork. I did everything they asked of me and STILL I', facing roadblocks which this tool cannot stop because it's not their job?!

    or

    "Why does this law even exist? It isn't helping anyone, it is actually making it harder for us to get by"

    or how many of us have come to the conclusion:

    It's every man for himself. You can't trust people to do their jobs anymore. If somebody can cheat me, they will, I must be ever on guard against that.

    Now think about that, folks. We are SOCIAL CREATURES.

    Sure we're ALSO individuals with some ability to control our own destinies, but we DEPEND on people making the right choices, the honest choices, the choices that we all depend on constantly.

    I hear some of you doubting that.

    Okay, let's make it simple.

    Drive down the road. Are you depending on everyone making the right choices?

    Damned straight you are.

    You cannot possibly drive so defensively to be safe if NOBODY pays attention to the RULES of the road, can you?

    When you drive down the road, or get onto a plane, or check into the hostpital or buy canned foods, or do any of the thousands of day to day task we all must do you are very nearly COMPLETELY DEPENDENT ON STRANGERS YOU WILL NEVER MEET TO DO THEIR JOBS WELL, AND TO NOT CHEAT YOU WHILE THEY DO IT, TOO.

    So face it, you are dependent on most people making the right choices most of the time.

    You are, a social creature, completely depnednet on society to do most of what you need done FOR YOU.

    Every damned aspect of your life depends on THINGS WORKING.

    It's not your guns, it's not your 401ks, it's not you jobs, its not your family, it's not you intelligence or your bravery, or your ability to program computers that keeps you safe and functional...

    ....it's the whole damned society keeping you afloat.

    You are dependent on faceless clerks you never met to file the paperwork correctly.

    You are dependent on air traffic controllers and pilots to get your plane down on the ground.

    You are dependent every damned day on millions of individuals doing the RIGHT THING.

    Well what happens when millions of individuals decide that doing the right thing is NOT IN THEIR INTERESTS?

    In other words, what happens when EVERYBODY becomes aLIBERTARIAN?

    I'll tell you what happens...Russian happens, Rwanda happens, Somalia happens.

    Those millions of us who are in this coeity are the servants to EACH OTHER.

    We are all highly dependent on our fellow servants following though on their jobs for us to be able to follow though on ours.

    They do that, they do their jobs, because they think it in their best interests to do so as do we.

    Well what happens when it is no longer really in their or our best interests to do those jobs?

    What happens when they or we are not rewarded well enough to actually care if that job gets done?

    THINGS STOP WORKING.

    As as more and more aspects of our lives stop working correctly, or more and more of us, then guess what?

    Sooner or later, not even the affluent can get things done.

    GREED is NOT GOOD, and I do not give a rat's ass how many billionaires you all so admire tell you contrary.

    Greed is not merely the desire to accumulate wealth, greed is ALSO the response to do the miniumum work for the maximum return.

    Greed is ALSO the tendency to never give a sucker an even break, and GREED is thinking everybody else is that SUCKER.

    Social greed is a sociopathologic mental DISEASE.

    And when enough of us have are infected by that disease, then the society we are sharing is basically toast.

    Now that's okay when only a very small percentage of the population are con men, crooks, and sociopaths. They can sap a system and the system can continue functioning because MOST people have not copped that sociopathologic disease.

    But when a society's leaders are constantly sending our the message that those who stand by their posts and do the right thing are SUCKERS?!?

    Then guess what? Everybody starts to get the GREED DISEASE.

    That's when the social cohesion starts to unravel, folks.

    This happens to societies, folks, and personally I see it happening to our right now.


    And what is at the root source of that unraveling?

    When the average guy absords the message that he is an individual who is making on his own, that he owes his fellow men nothing, and that only fools think otherwise....THEN that society is bound to fail EVERYBODY.

    And that in my opinion is about where 25% of the AMERICAN population is at right now.

    This board is rife with evidence of that conceit of the individual which breaks down societies over the long run.

    What some of you have expressed on this board, and some of you rush in to agree with, is yourb contempt for you fellow men.

    You think because you are doing okay, those who are not are simply losers. You believe in a lie called social darminism

    As a consequence of this lie that far too many American now believe,
    the American society and the way of life it created is now dying.


    So Happy thanksgiving, folks.

    Thanksgiving....a holiday developed by a COMMUNE of people who understood that they either had best hang together or they would hang separately.

    Except for the lip service that most of us are willing to give to that sentiment, (but not actually follow through on in most cases) fewer and fewer Americans really understand the above reality that their well being depends on most other people ALSO doing well enough.

    I will remeind you of an editecian social axiom which I think describes society perfectly

    IF YOUR NEIGHBORS ARE GETTING POORER? SO ARE YOU.
     
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  10. AVG-JOE
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    AVG-JOE American Mutt Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    This is a bit of a ramblin' rant, there Editec, but your thesis is right on the money.

    The best companies (which are microcosm examples of societies) that I have ever worked for are the ones in which management, administration and labor all knew the value of the people who comprised the other departments.

    The worst companies to work for are the ones that are rife with politics, competition and interdepartmental back-stabbing... Especially if it is encouraged from the top as some sort of bizarre incentive.

    -Joe
     
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