The Fabian Society

[Sallow]

Ugh.

Orwell was right.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I agree the progressives did some very good things they always go over board.
Im not a big fan of welfare states and government dependency .
The bigger they get the less I like them, despite some of the benefits seen in poverty levels.

that is social democracy, not socialism. The operative word being democracy.

To big to fail ?
I see it as squandering the future at the expense the next generation.
Right now we are spending about 17% on "welfare" and we are borrowing money to do that.
When the bill comes due?
What do we end up with a global government and a ruling elite ?

Representative republic not democracy.

Good night.

Again your beef is with social democracy.

Is there anything else at all about socialism or social democracy that you protest?

Yeah Im dont want a central planning giant federal government like we are growing
I would prefer stronger states .
What is the hypothetical socialist federal government going to be in charge of producing at this point? Government Cheese ?

Anyway whats your point ?

 

[MaggieMae]

News: U.S.F.S.R.
Monday, Jun. 14, 1943

U.S.F.S.R. In London 60 years ago, when he was red-bearded and in his 20s, George Bernard Shaw joined the newly founded Fabian Society.† It was a socialist group, ambitious to reconstruct "society in accordance with the highest moral possibilities.

" The Fabians rejected the Marxian doctrine that socialism must be preceded by revolution. They believed in "gradualism," holding that the socialist principle was partially embodied in most governments and capable of extension through existing political parties.

Last week, a bit nostalgically, with the old flashing wit, venerable G.B.S. relived those early days—and almost forgot that he was reviewing G. D. H. Cole's Fabian Socialism for the London Tribune:
"This Fabian Society seemed just what I wanted. . . . We began by imposing on the Liberal Party ... a socialist program. . . . We . . . founded the London School of Economics, which has produced Beveridge; added The New Statesman to the weekly press; established an independent labour party. . . .
"In the course of nature, we young upstarts became an Old Gang. ... Of the seven Fabian essayists of the '80s the only survivors are [Sidney] Webb and myself, both octogenarians. ... Be patient with us: we shall not be long now. . . ."


Read more: Foreign News: U.S.F.S.R. - TIME

The Fabian Society had really been founded 62 years ago, but, because of the war, it delayed the celebration. The postponement was in character; Fabius Cunctator (The Delayer) had worn out Hannibal in the Second Punic War* by what Livy called "masterly inactivity."

The earnest young men & women of the 1880s who believed that socialism (not the Marxist brand) would come with what Webb called the "inevitability of gradualness" took Fabius as their exemplar.
They considered violent revolution unnecessary, believed their Utopia could be achieved by "permeating" existing institutions.

Read more: Foreign News: Easy Does It - TIME

Will a national debt of $300,000,000,000 bankrupt the U.S.? Where will the money to finance postwar full employment come from? How can jobs be found for 12,000,000 returning soldiers & sailors?
Last week, The Twentieth Century Fund ***published Stuart Chase's brightly written answers under the title Where's the Money Coming From? ($1).


Read more: FISCAL: Compensatory and Mr. Chase - TIME

Fabian Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

***The Century Foundation

So who are todays Fabian society ?

Who gives a shit? Oh, nevermind. You and Dud (a/k/a Oddball).

 

[MaggieMae]

The conspiracy theories promoted by the whacko right wing fringers are a never-ending source of amusement.

 

[Sallow]

The conspiracy theories promoted by the whacko right wing fringers are a never-ending source of amusement.

Trouble is..they've been making it into the "mainstream" recently.

 

[loosecannon]

Is there anything else at all about socialism or social democracy that you protest?

Not directed at me but I oppose the violence and oppression that democracy socialism and social democracy implies by it's very nature.

You don't like the job choice and income of your neighbor? Get a majority (democracy) and threaten to imprison or kill him (government courts and enforcement) if he does not give you a portion determined by you to be fair (taxation). (This applies to every person who supports taxation, not just socialists).

The very nature of democracy is control. It is neither peaceful, nor desirable. Democracy is not freedom. It makes neighbors enemies, and friendly people violent rivals. It turns an average person into a thieving control freak through the privacy of a ballot box. It gives a "voice" to the majority (which is what the few elites who benefit want), most of whom have no understanding of the nature of government and humanity.

People make democracy a god, but democracy is nothing more than a demonstration of the limits of human knowledge and futility of striving for worldly perfection.

noted that all of your beef is with the democracy aspects of social democracy. If anything I think this is a very important point. That democracy can evolve into a bidding war for electoral support wherein politicians make promises that their nations can't keep.

In a lotta ways I think that the recent rage against socialism may be misplaced. Democracy may be the real villain.

 

[loosecannon]

Yeah Im dont want a central planning giant federal government like we are growing
I would prefer stronger states .
What is the hypothetical socialist federal government going to be in charge of producing at this point? Government Cheese ?

Anyway whats your point ?

You pretty much made my point. It seems to me as if Socialism as a governmental form is so far out of circulation that nobody should take it seriously.

Meanwhile social democracy is red hot.

You appear to be adverse to democracy and esp concentrated democratic power.

I suspect you have many reasons for this and some are likely valid and others imagined.

Rather than rail endlessly about "socialism" maybe we could talk about the specifics of what you do and don't want.

Esp since what you describe will probably have nothing at all to do with socialism.

 

[editec]

Fabian was okay, but he was no Elvis.

 

[rightwinger]

Fabian was okay, but he was no Elvis.

Maybe Fitnah could start a thread about the Elvis Society

 

[loosecannon]

have you thought about changing your moniker to Rightburger?

 

[rightwinger]

have you thought about changing your moniker to Rightburger?

Always been a Wing Man

 

[Oddball]

Is there anything else at all about socialism or social democracy that you protest?

Not directed at me but I oppose the violence and oppression that democracy socialism and social democracy implies by it's very nature.

You don't like the job choice and income of your neighbor? Get a majority (democracy) and threaten to imprison or kill him (government courts and enforcement) if he does not give you a portion determined by you to be fair (taxation). (This applies to every person who supports taxation, not just socialists).

The very nature of democracy is control. It is neither peaceful, nor desirable. Democracy is not freedom. It makes neighbors enemies, and friendly people violent rivals. It turns an average person into a thieving control freak through the privacy of a ballot box. It gives a "voice" to the majority (which is what the few elites who benefit want), most of whom have no understanding of the nature of government and humanity.

People make democracy a god, but democracy is nothing more than a demonstration of the limits of human knowledge and futility of striving for worldly perfection.

noted that all of your beef is with the democracy aspects of social democracy. If anything I think this is a very important point. That democracy can evolve into a bidding war for electoral support wherein politicians make promises that their nations can't keep.

In a lotta ways I think that the recent rage against socialism may be misplaced. Democracy may be the real villain.

Democracy Is Not Freedom

 

[snjmom]

Freedom is a concept that is only afforded by the voluntary relinquishment of violence. Once it becomes clear that there is no social contract, violence will fill that void again.

 

[loosecannon]

Once it becomes clear that there is no social contract,

Amen

 

[2Parties]

Once it becomes clear that there is no social contract,

Amen

Wish the statists would understand that their violent actions are not justifiable under said contact and are nothing more than brute force.

 

[loosecannon]

Once it becomes clear that there is no social contract,

Amen

Wish the statists would understand that their violent actions are not justifiable under said contact and are nothing more than brute force.

the statists assume a social contract is enacted as soon as a parent enrolls a newborn for a SS #. And no act of God can revoke the assignment of that #. Not even death.

 

[MaggieMae]

Amen

Wish the statists would understand that their violent actions are not justifiable under said contact and are nothing more than brute force.

the statists assume a social contract is enacted as soon as a parent enrolls a newborn for a SS #. And no act of God can revoke the assignment of that #. Not even death.

I don't even understand that kind of jibberjabber. Human beings (including Americans, surprise surprise) are social animals, period.

 

[The Infidel]

that's ridiculous!

Prove it then.... prove Fitnah wrong


I'll be waiting & once again firing up the old popcorn machine, b/c this ought to be good.

 

[The Infidel]

All this talk of socialism and democracy... lets not forget we are a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC, not a demacracy.

 

[loosecannon]

that's ridiculous!

Prove it then.... prove Fitnah wrong


I'll be waiting & once again firing up the old popcorn machine, b/c this ought to be good.

it was a joke, your silliness! I was responding to a post in which he asserted Alinsky's maxim that "ridicule" was the most powerful political tool.