The Everlasting Light of God

[M.D. Rawlings]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBXeK8uefVs]Proof of Life After Death!! This Man Died At The Hospital!! His Story Is AWESOME!! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Underhill]

It's not proof of anything. A drugged up mans brain is oxygen starved during a near death experience and he has a delusion...

Huge surprise.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

It's not proof of anything. A drugged up mans brain is oxygen starved during a near death experience and he has a delusion...

Huge surprise.

Well, that's what non-believers claim! But what's the determinate, empirical substance of their hypothesis? All you're really saying is that you don't believe human's have an eternal soul, and you merely offer this hypothesis to account for these kind of experiences. Huge assumption of faith.

*crickets chirping*

 

[Underhill]

It's not proof of anything. A drugged up mans brain is oxygen starved during a near death experience and he has a delusion...

Huge surprise.

Well, that's what non-believers claim! But what's the determinate, empirical substance of their hypothesis? All you're really saying is that you don't believe human's have an eternal soul, and you merely offer this hypothesis to account for these kind of experiences. Huge assumption of faith.

*crickets chirping*

So what you are saying is that lack of evidence means I can't know.

And you are right.

It also means you can't know.

And short of evidence I will choose the path of not believing we have an unseen spirit that lives on after life. It's what rational people do.

And you should do something about those crickets....

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

It's not proof of anything. A drugged up mans brain is oxygen starved during a near death experience and he has a delusion...

Huge surprise.

Well, that's what non-believers claim! But what's the determinate, empirical substance of their hypothesis? All you're really saying is that you don't believe human's have an eternal soul, and you merely offer this hypothesis to account for these kind of experiences. Huge assumption of faith.

*crickets chirping*

So what you are saying is that lack of evidence means I can't know.

And you are right.

It also means you can't know.

And short of evidence I will choose the path of not believing we have an unseen spirit that lives on after life. It's what rational people do.

And you should do something about those crickets....

Forgive me. I mean no offense. But you're talking about empirical proof for something that is not empirical! I know God exists and that human beings are eternal creatures. Christ revealed Himself to me years ago. Like Ian, I do know.

 

[Underhill]

Well, that's what non-believers claim! But what's the determinate, empirical substance of their hypothesis? All you're really saying is that you don't believe human's have an eternal soul, and you merely offer this hypothesis to account for these kind of experiences. Huge assumption of faith.

*crickets chirping*

So what you are saying is that lack of evidence means I can't know.

And you are right.

It also means you can't know.

And short of evidence I will choose the path of not believing we have an unseen spirit that lives on after life. It's what rational people do.

And you should do something about those crickets....

Forgive me. I mean no offense. But you're talking about empirical proof for something that is not empirical! I know God exists and that human beings are eternal creatures. Christ revealed Himself to me years ago. Like Ian, I do know.

Yep. I believed the same crap back in the day. Used to actually witness to people on the street as part of a ministry.

The only evidence I can offer in my defense is this.

I have traveled to 23 different countries in my lifetime (originally with my parents for missions work and later for my job). And in those travels I realized that virtually every group of people has their own religion in which they believe 100% in their god. And most of them believe he is the only god, the true god.

They cannot all be right. But they all to often claim the same sorts of experience you profess.

Many people believe they have seen ghost. Tens of thousands profess to see aliens. It used to be people claiming to have seen angels...

So it's awfully hard for a thinking person to come to any other conclusion other than people are prone to delusions. They often want to believe as it gives them hope and a future when they feel they have none.

I apologize if that offends.

 

[logical4u]

Yes, there are many stories like that, and you should NOT believe (even though they are very similar, from different people, in different places, in different cultures).

BELIEVE Darwin, he thought up a good story to travel the world with no proof, and to this day, there is not a conclusive evidence trail..... just BELIEVE!

 

[TheOldSchool]

What do you mean that God revealed himself to you? I've never gotten that.

 

[Underhill]

Yes, there are many stories like that, and you should NOT believe (even though they are very similar, from different people, in different places, in different cultures).

BELIEVE Darwin, he thought up a good story to travel the world with no proof, and to this day, there is not a conclusive evidence trail..... just BELIEVE!

It's not about belief.

It's about making the best assumptions based upon the available evidence. The evidence for evolution may be incomplete. But there are mountains of evidence.

Compared to the notion of god which has no evidence. A believer talking about evidence trails... It's not a pot calling a kettle black. It's the bottomless pit of eternal darkness calling the kettle black.

But I do think there is a remote possibility there is a higher power out there. I just have serious doubt as to whether any religious groups are even remotely close to the idea of what he/she/they may be.

 

[logical4u]

Yes, there are many stories like that, and you should NOT believe (even though they are very similar, from different people, in different places, in different cultures).

BELIEVE Darwin, he thought up a good story to travel the world with no proof, and to this day, there is not a conclusive evidence trail..... just BELIEVE!

It's not about belief.

It's about making the best assumptions based upon the available evidence. The evidence for evolution may be incomplete. But there are mountains of evidence.

Compared to the notion of god which has no evidence. A believer talking about evidence trails... It's not a pot calling a kettle black. It's the bottomless pit of eternal darkness calling the kettle black.

But I do think there is a remote possibility there is a higher power out there. I just have serious doubt as to whether any religious groups are even remotely close to the idea of what he/she/they may be.

I agree with your last statement. The LORD is beyond "human" comprehension. It is one of the reasons "evidence" is hard to provide. When people are visited by the LORD (or the flipside, evil), it is extremely hard to describe what happened. Our senses work in the physical world, and when that collides with the spiritual world, it is almost impossible to convey the experience (still the experience was real).

Yes, most cultures believe their religion is best. The LORD was written onto all mens' hearts (Jerimiah) in the "New Covenant". This allows all people to "know" the LORD (no matter what they are taught to call HIM). Then "religion" enters. Does that "faith" teach you according to what you know in your "heart"? Does that faith make you feel ill at what is overlooked, tolerated by religious "leaders"? Are you ashamed of how the majority of people of your "faith" act towards, their enemies? Towards their "friends"?

This is something that can only be answered by the "individual", that is intended to have a personal relationship with the LORD (not to be part of a "group" or "movement"). It is for each person to decide based on thier relationship with their heart, and their LORD.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

What do you mean that God revealed himself to you? I've never gotten that.

At the time of my conversion, my life was an utter disaster, one of my own making. No sensible person would have anything to do with me. Next to me, as sinners go, Ian was an amateur. In His mercy, God let me wander to the very edge of destruction, and though I now know, from this side of the new birth, 20/20, that He had been working on me for years, it was in that moment, when I was at the end of myself, I heard Him loud and clear. I didn't hear voices or have any visions, as such. My experience was not anything especially supernatural like Ian's conversion experience. But make no mistake about it, I knew. I knew what I had to do to be saved. It was a knowing as sure as I knew that my feet were planted on the ground by gravity. I knew that I was evil, full of sin, that I deserved death and damnation, and nothing else but that. But I also knew that If I repented and asked Him to save me, He would. I could feel his presence, but it’s not a feeling like any other, though it certainly effects one’s emotions. It was a knowing, an unmistakable understanding. God was asking me to renounce myself, to agree with His judgment, to surrender my life to His lordship, to His love, and become a new creature. It’s not the same for everybody, because we are all different. But if it is God, there is one consistent theme: repentance of one’s sinfulness and surrender to His Lordship. There is no other course to salvation, and there is no other name by which one may be saved but that of Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God.

If you have an encounter with God, there's no mistaking it. God is pure love and light and truth. This world is an evil, depraved place, full of lies and darkness. One cannot know just how evil it is apart from God.

Confess your sins, ask for forgiveness, repent, be saved. Call on Christ and He will save you. His word is true.

 

[logical4u]

What do you mean that God revealed himself to you? I've never gotten that.

At the time of my conversion, my life was an utter disaster, one of my own making. No sensible person would have anything to do with me. Next to me, as sinners go, Ian was an amateur. In His mercy, God let me wander to the very edge of destruction, and though I now know, from this side of the new birth, 20/20, that He had been working on me for years, it was in that moment, when I was at the end of myself, I heard Him loud and clear. I didn't hear voices or have any visions, as such. My experience was not anything especially supernatural like Ian's conversion experience. But make no mistake about it, I knew. I knew what I had to do to be saved. It was a knowing as sure as I knew that my feet were planted on the ground by gravity. I knew that I was evil, full of sin, that I deserved death and damnation, and nothing else but that. But I also knew that If I repented and asked Him to save me, He would. I could feel his presence, but it’s not a feeling like any other, though it certainly effects one’s emotions. It was a knowing, an unmistakable understanding. God was asking me to renounce myself, to agree with His judgment, to surrender my life to His lordship, to His love, and become a new creature. It’s not the same for everybody, because we are all different. But if it is God, there is one consistent theme: repentance of one’s sinfulness and surrender to His Lordship. There is no other course to salvation, and there is no other name by which one may be saved but that of Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God.

If you have an encounter with God, there's no mistaking it. God is pure love and light and truth. This world is an evil, depraved place, full of lies and darkness. One cannot know just how evil it is apart from God.

Confess your sins, ask for forgiveness, repent, be saved. Call on Christ and He will save you. His word is true.

You shall be known by the fruit you bear!
Does your faith take you towards light and truth?
Does your faith take you towards deceit and darkness?

Is your faith a candle in the world or is it a thing to avoid?

 

[Hollie]

It's not proof of anything. A drugged up mans brain is oxygen starved during a near death experience and he has a delusion...

Huge surprise.

Well, that's what non-believers claim! But what's the determinate, empirical substance of their hypothesis? All you're really saying is that you don't believe human's have an eternal soul, and you merely offer this hypothesis to account for these kind of experiences. Huge assumption of faith.

*crickets chirping*

Your explanation of the concept of a "soul" is insufficient. It's only sufficient for those who have already decided there must be a "soul". You believe it's okay to assume as decided, the issue of some sort of continuation of the consciousness after death.

I have no explanation for "spirits" or the "soul" because the s"oul" remains undemonstrated. I have no properties and characteristics for that which does not exist.

I do have a comment about personality, and where that comes from. The sense of self is a higher brain function and it's seen in comparably lesser degrees in lesser animals (i.e., humans are not the only creatures with a sense of "self"). This in and of itself is enough to prove that "selfhood" is a natural phenomenon of higher brain functions. Either that, or your gawds have made various animals / primates and humans with a soul each, and that means humans are the especial creation of god. Language, nurturing, survival, industry, and even environmental control all can be attributed to animals lesser on the sentience strat than man, which is a great case for man being of and a part of the natural world-- no gawds needed.

Personality is a phenomenon of the brain. Remove sections of the brain and the "self" changes as well. Apparently your eternal soul is at the mercy of a few pounds of grey jelly, because the soul cannot override the impact to the brain and the change in personality that attends that impact. The soul must be fairly weak.

This is a perfectly valid explanation for emotions, and it doesn't require the mumbo-jumbo of gods to explain it.

Non-material concepts are not fully non-material. You need a brain to substantiate them. Damage or impact to the brain directly affects the development and delivery of the concepts. You are simply assuming a metaphysical / supernatural nature for these things, and not submitting any case to support it. I am submitting they are the effects of the brain along with neurons and chemicals within the brain, and I can demonstrate how they can be manipulated by physical impact.

By way of example, I can

1. end all thought by killing the brain,
2. create an emotion by chemical inducement of that brain,
3. limit the thought and emotion of the brain by removing sections of it.

All the poetry about feelings and spirit and so on -- reside only in the brain. Remove it, and away it all goes. All of it. Even belief in gawds.

Now, you demonstrate the spiritual source, which you assert is the actual reason emotions exist and disassemble my case, please.



A chorus of *crickets chirping*

 

[logical4u]

It's not proof of anything. A drugged up mans brain is oxygen starved during a near death experience and he has a delusion...

Huge surprise.

Well, that's what non-believers claim! But what's the determinate, empirical substance of their hypothesis? All you're really saying is that you don't believe human's have an eternal soul, and you merely offer this hypothesis to account for these kind of experiences. Huge assumption of faith.

*crickets chirping*

So what you are saying is that lack of evidence means I can't know.

And you are right.

It also means you can't know.

And short of evidence I will choose the path of not believing we have an unseen spirit that lives on after life. It's what rational people do.

And you should do something about those crickets....

Another person that cannot figure out why they are not "happy". If you have no room for the LORD, you have room only for evil, sorry.

 

[logical4u]

So what you are saying is that lack of evidence means I can't know.

And you are right.

It also means you can't know.

And short of evidence I will choose the path of not believing we have an unseen spirit that lives on after life. It's what rational people do.

And you should do something about those crickets....

Forgive me. I mean no offense. But you're talking about empirical proof for something that is not empirical! I know God exists and that human beings are eternal creatures. Christ revealed Himself to me years ago. Like Ian, I do know.

Yep. I believed the same crap back in the day. Used to actually witness to people on the street as part of a ministry.

The only evidence I can offer in my defense is this.

I have traveled to 23 different countries in my lifetime (originally with my parents for missions work and later for my job). And in those travels I realized that virtually every group of people has their own religion in which they believe 100% in their god. And most of them believe he is the only god, the true god.

They cannot all be right. But they all to often claim the same sorts of experience you profess.

Many people believe they have seen ghost. Tens of thousands profess to see aliens. It used to be people claiming to have seen angels...

So it's awfully hard for a thinking person to come to any other conclusion other than people are prone to delusions. They often want to believe as it gives them hope and a future when they feel they have none.

I apologize if that offends.

You must have been an insincere witness. In Jerimiah, it says the LORD will be written onto all hearts in the New Covenant. If people are brought up believing the "LORD" is the god of their religion, they will be "good" people. To do otherwise would put them at odds with their hearts. That does not mean their "religion" is a good religion or the "true" religion. You will know them by the fruits they bear (said a converted muslim extremist). Christianity takes people towards the light and the truth (they are encouraged to be spiritual adults in their relationship with the LORD), other religions take their people in the opposite direction. In societies where the predominant religion is Christian based, there tends to be more freedom, more responsibilty, more prosperity, more productivity, more charity. Where other religions are predominant, ..... not so much.

Though, individual people still turn inwards to listen to the LORD, they are not "encouraged" to act that way in their "religion". There is a huge difference. I find it amusing, that so many do not want to observe this most obvious sign of how the religions differ; they want to blame it on everything but the true reason for people's misery: they do not walk with the LORD. If those that listen to their hearts act publicly, they are ridiculed, punished, even executed, another point those that have turned from the LORD choose to ignore.

 

[logical4u]

Yes, there are many stories like that, and you should NOT believe (even though they are very similar, from different people, in different places, in different cultures).

BELIEVE Darwin, he thought up a good story to travel the world with no proof, and to this day, there is not a conclusive evidence trail..... just BELIEVE!

It's not about belief.

It's about making the best assumptions based upon the available evidence. The evidence for evolution may be incomplete. But there are mountains of evidence.

Compared to the notion of god which has no evidence. A believer talking about evidence trails... It's not a pot calling a kettle black. It's the bottomless pit of eternal darkness calling the kettle black.

But I do think there is a remote possibility there is a higher power out there. I just have serious doubt as to whether any religious groups are even remotely close to the idea of what he/she/they may be.

Reason: let's look at islands that are remote and rose out of the sea, okay? These islands have life shipwrecked on the shores. The life becomes dependent on other life forms on that island. There are no new species that evolve. No great diversity (just the opposite) of plant life, insect life, or other life developes, just the limited results of selective breeding.
If "evolution" was a true occurence, these remote islands would add to the diversity of animals on the planet (and not just house animals that were thought to be extinct on the continents).
The diversity of life forms on this planet point to "design", not chance.

I don't believe the comprehension of the "Creator" is in our capability. Yeshua was the LORD. People that are interested in the "higher power" have access to HIS life on earth. They can read for themselves how HE interacted with all peoples (not just the Jews HE came to save). They can see how loving and devoted HE was to people. They can know that HE boiled down the Commandments into Love G*d with all your being, and love your neighbor as yourself (you have to understand that the LORD that was whipped, had his beard plucked, was tortured, had a thorny crown forced into HIS scalp, before HE was nailed to a cross to die from HIS body sagging and suffocating HIM, loved you, therefore if HE can love you, you can love yourself). The beauty of the LORD is that you do not need instruction to know HIM. You can search your own heart for his hand and knowledge. Once you become aware of HIM, it is hard not to want to discuss HIM, and to share with others. Churches become a meeting place to share and expand our personal knowledge of HIM.

HE is the ONLY spiritual leader in the history of the world that told us, not, "I know the way", or if you follow me, I will give you earthly riches, but told us: I am the way, I am the LIGHT, I am the TRUTH, and thru me is the FATHER (G*d).

If you want to pretend there is another person(s) that had a message even close, it is your choice. If you are interested in the TRUTH, you must start with your own heart, your own relationship with the LORD. It is simple, but it is not "easy".

 

[logical4u]

It's not proof of anything. A drugged up mans brain is oxygen starved during a near death experience and he has a delusion...

Huge surprise.

Well, that's what non-believers claim! But what's the determinate, empirical substance of their hypothesis? All you're really saying is that you don't believe human's have an eternal soul, and you merely offer this hypothesis to account for these kind of experiences. Huge assumption of faith.

*crickets chirping*

Your explanation of the concept of a "soul" is insufficient. It's only sufficient for those who have already decided there must be a "soul". You believe it's okay to assume as decided, the issue of some sort of continuation of the consciousness after death.

I have no explanation for "spirits" or the "soul" because the s"oul" remains undemonstrated. I have no properties and characteristics for that which does not exist.

I do have a comment about personality, and where that comes from. The sense of self is a higher brain function and it's seen in comparably lesser degrees in lesser animals (i.e., humans are not the only creatures with a sense of "self"). This in and of itself is enough to prove that "selfhood" is a natural phenomenon of higher brain functions. Either that, or your gawds have made various animals / primates and humans with a soul each, and that means humans are the especial creation of god. Language, nurturing, survival, industry, and even environmental control all can be attributed to animals lesser on the sentience strat than man, which is a great case for man being of and a part of the natural world-- no gawds needed.

Personality is a phenomenon of the brain. Remove sections of the brain and the "self" changes as well. Apparently your eternal soul is at the mercy of a few pounds of grey jelly, because the soul cannot override the impact to the brain and the change in personality that attends that impact. The soul must be fairly weak.

This is a perfectly valid explanation for emotions, and it doesn't require the mumbo-jumbo of gods to explain it.

Non-material concepts are not fully non-material. You need a brain to substantiate them. Damage or impact to the brain directly affects the development and delivery of the concepts. You are simply assuming a metaphysical / supernatural nature for these things, and not submitting any case to support it. I am submitting they are the effects of the brain along with neurons and chemicals within the brain, and I can demonstrate how they can be manipulated by physical impact.

By way of example, I can

1. end all thought by killing the brain,
2. create an emotion by chemical inducement of that brain,
3. limit the thought and emotion of the brain by removing sections of it.

All the poetry about feelings and spirit and so on -- reside only in the brain. Remove it, and away it all goes. All of it. Even belief in gawds.

Now, you demonstrate the spiritual source, which you assert is the actual reason emotions exist and disassemble my case, please.



A chorus of *crickets chirping*

Show me a thought. You cannot.
Our brains are a physical indication of what is happening. You cannot look at this person's brain and tell me they are deciding what car to purchase or if they are deciding to comitt mass murder, or if they are planning a loving day with their family.
People are the only animals with the "ability to reason" (they can look at long term consequences of their actions). No other animal can do that, so before you try to degrade us to mere tissue, consider that.
Some people are capable of doing things with their brains that defy scientific explanation: reading cards or telling what items are behind a screen, knowing something is wrong with a loved one even at a distance, moving items without touching them.
Why do some people act with love and kindness? Why do some people act with evil intent? It is based on human "spirit" (spirituality). If it did not exist, we would all act out basic survival needs, first. As cultures, we do not do that. Men do not breed as many women as they can, by force if necessary, and then leave them alone once they are pregnant. Men do not kill off competition for those women. Boys are not killed (or run off) so they will not become a threat to the dominant males. Instead, we act the opposite of animals: we offer assistance to neighbors, we provide for the weak, we respect the elderly.
By focusing on the physical, you are "missing" the beauty (something else that does not logically exist) of the spiritual. By denying spirituality, you are depleting your own.

 

[BreezeWood]

Proof of Life After Death!! This Man Died At The Hospital!! His Story Is AWESOME!!

why are they returning if they accomplish life outside their bodies ?

why isn't the proof simply the Spirit leaving the body at any time not necessarily when the body no longer functions.

- the proof would be if while standing before the podium someone was able again to leave their body "voluntarily" and fly around like Casper ...

 

[Hollie]

Well, that's what non-believers claim! But what's the determinate, empirical substance of their hypothesis? All you're really saying is that you don't believe human's have an eternal soul, and you merely offer this hypothesis to account for these kind of experiences. Huge assumption of faith.

*crickets chirping*

Your explanation of the concept of a "soul" is insufficient. It's only sufficient for those who have already decided there must be a "soul". You believe it's okay to assume as decided, the issue of some sort of continuation of the consciousness after death.

I have no explanation for "spirits" or the "soul" because the s"oul" remains undemonstrated. I have no properties and characteristics for that which does not exist.

I do have a comment about personality, and where that comes from. The sense of self is a higher brain function and it's seen in comparably lesser degrees in lesser animals (i.e., humans are not the only creatures with a sense of "self"). This in and of itself is enough to prove that "selfhood" is a natural phenomenon of higher brain functions. Either that, or your gawds have made various animals / primates and humans with a soul each, and that means humans are the especial creation of god. Language, nurturing, survival, industry, and even environmental control all can be attributed to animals lesser on the sentience strat than man, which is a great case for man being of and a part of the natural world-- no gawds needed.

Personality is a phenomenon of the brain. Remove sections of the brain and the "self" changes as well. Apparently your eternal soul is at the mercy of a few pounds of grey jelly, because the soul cannot override the impact to the brain and the change in personality that attends that impact. The soul must be fairly weak.

This is a perfectly valid explanation for emotions, and it doesn't require the mumbo-jumbo of gods to explain it.

Non-material concepts are not fully non-material. You need a brain to substantiate them. Damage or impact to the brain directly affects the development and delivery of the concepts. You are simply assuming a metaphysical / supernatural nature for these things, and not submitting any case to support it. I am submitting they are the effects of the brain along with neurons and chemicals within the brain, and I can demonstrate how they can be manipulated by physical impact.

By way of example, I can

1. end all thought by killing the brain,
2. create an emotion by chemical inducement of that brain,
3. limit the thought and emotion of the brain by removing sections of it.

All the poetry about feelings and spirit and so on -- reside only in the brain. Remove it, and away it all goes. All of it. Even belief in gawds.

Now, you demonstrate the spiritual source, which you assert is the actual reason emotions exist and disassemble my case, please.



A chorus of *crickets chirping*

Show me a thought. You cannot.
Our brains are a physical indication of what is happening. You cannot look at this person's brain and tell me they are deciding what car to purchase or if they are deciding to comitt mass murder, or if they are planning a loving day with their family.
People are the only animals with the "ability to reason" (they can look at long term consequences of their actions). No other animal can do that, so before you try to degrade us to mere tissue, consider that.
Some people are capable of doing things with their brains that defy scientific explanation: reading cards or telling what items are behind a screen, knowing something is wrong with a loved one even at a distance, moving items without touching them.
Why do some people act with love and kindness? Why do some people act with evil intent? It is based on human "spirit" (spirituality). If it did not exist, we would all act out basic survival needs, first. As cultures, we do not do that. Men do not breed as many women as they can, by force if necessary, and then leave them alone once they are pregnant. Men do not kill off competition for those women. Boys are not killed (or run off) so they will not become a threat to the dominant males. Instead, we act the opposite of animals: we offer assistance to neighbors, we provide for the weak, we respect the elderly.
By focusing on the physical, you are "missing" the beauty (something else that does not logically exist) of the spiritual. By denying spirituality, you are depleting your own.

I’m not sure how I could “show you” a thought, although, mapping brainwaves can be used to identify activity in the brain resulting in physical activities.

As to your comment regarding paranormal / physic powers, (reading cards, telling what items are behind a screen or moving objects with thoughts), I wouldn’t confuse magic tricks with the rigors a double blind experiment .

As to “Why do some people act with love and kindness? Why do some people act with evil intent?”, there are many varied explanations (self-interest, environment, emotions), that explain human behavior.

Honestly, I didn’t see anything your post that really addressed my comments. I still have no definition of what “spiritual” is and how that applies to humanity.

So tell me, why is it we see rudimentary social structures in animals that don't really have any “special creation”? Why do higher apes adhere to "moralities" in terms of not blindly killing one another? I suppose you must believe that the gawds have touched them as well.

Interestingly, I would like to see anyone use the primary Judeo gawds as a role model for moral behavior. Just make a list of the things Yahweh has done, and then go on and try to live according to their morality. He is the example after all, right?

Morality is both transitory and fully natural in its source. Take gods away tomorrow and humans would behave pretty much like they do with gods in place. We are a mixture of selfishness and cooperation and it serves us pretty well. Most people do behave morally.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It's not proof of anything. A drugged up mans brain is oxygen starved during a near death experience and he has a delusion...

Huge surprise.

True.

Subjective, anecdotal accounts in no way constitute ‘evidence,’ much less ‘proof.’