The entire state of Florida was just evacuated for a cat-2 hurricane

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Over dozen looters arrested and another shot in Florida | Daily Mail Online

One of many reasons not to evacuate

Then don't!

 

[Coyote]

Hurricanes due as they please and are very unpredictable..................So it's better to haul ass than to be wrong. Unless you think this is a game.

Well over a thousand people died in Katrina from the Op's blindness to possible consequences.

Exactly...thank you for stating the obvious...it's a pity you had to.

There were a lot of lessons learned from Katrina and as a result there has been surprising little loss of life from Harvey, and it remains to be seen from Irma.

Interestingly, and fortunately one of the lessons they learned was people wouldn't leave in Katrina because they did not want to leave their pets behind. Shelters did not allow pets. That has changed now - they evacuate pets with the people and certain shelters are designated for people with pets.

There were no lessons learned from Katrina, they just rebuilt in areas that are below sea level again. The ocean will just go around the levy built and come in from the back, the damage is done in ten seconds before any pump can work. That said the pumps are meaningless because you can't pump back into an ocean that is above the fucking pump. Major government fuckup.....................

Actually - the whole rebuilding issue - I agree with you on.

One of the reason's I'm so pissed when Trump cancelled one of the Obama era regulations that basically said IF they were going to rebuild - it was going to have to meet stronger standards in order to hold up in hurricanes. A lot of flood prone areas simply should not be rebuilt in.

So Houston, which has never flooded like this before, should be abandoned?

You really have not thought about this, have you?

No, as I said - FLOOD PRONE. You did see that right?

There are areas that are built up in natural flood plains - should never have been in the first place. Then to make it worse, you pave over huge areas, making it worse. New Orleans and Houston both represent areas where there should have been better control over what and how to build. But there wasn't. They are also huge established cities. What you can do, in some cases, is see if there are areas that shouldn't be rebuilt in, and not do so or - if they do - stop covering them for damage. That's probably more applicable to New Orleans...and coastal areas than Houston, but none the less Houston has had (is it 3 now?) major flooding events in as many years. That ought to be a planning wake up call don't you think?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It was a cat 5, dope. Check out the damage in the carribean.

It was a CAT 3 when is made landfall in the USA............................

It didn't even knock out any cell towers because people streamed live to youtube thru the entire storm

It was a cat 5 while in the caribbean. As evacuations take time, it needed to be done well before landfall. Your idiotic meme relies wholly on hindsight.

There are widespread cell service outages over a large portion of the state, dope.
AT&T Outage Map

When will power and cellphone services be restored? Patience urged

Most people that rode out the storm and yes, it was tropical storm conditions in the Miami area are glad they did...

You just kind of make stuff up and believe it, don't ya? 100+ mph winds in Miami. Deadly flooding in downtown, the toll of which was completely eased by the evacuations.

It floods downtown Miami every time it rains, not necessarily the same in the rest of Miami. Max wind speed they said at the national hurricane center - in Miami were 99 mph 98 right in there...

Have you ever tried walking in even 50 mph winds?

You are clueless! Utterly clueless!

 

[Rustic]

It was a CAT 3 when is made landfall in the USA............................

It didn't even knock out any cell towers because people streamed live to youtube thru the entire storm

It was a cat 5 while in the caribbean. As evacuations take time, it needed to be done well before landfall. Your idiotic meme relies wholly on hindsight.

There are widespread cell service outages over a large portion of the state, dope.
AT&T Outage Map

When will power and cellphone services be restored? Patience urged

Most people that rode out the storm and yes, it was tropical storm conditions in the Miami area are glad they did...

You just kind of make stuff up and believe it, don't ya? 100+ mph winds in Miami. Deadly flooding in downtown, the toll of which was completely eased by the evacuations.

It floods downtown Miami every time it rains, not necessarily the same in the rest of Miami. Max wind speed they said at the national hurricane center - in Miami were 99 mph 98 right in there...

Have you ever tried walking in even 50 mph winds?

You are clueless! Utterly clueless!

We have 40-100 mile an hour winds all the time up here... it's very common

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Hurricanes due as they please and are very unpredictable..................So it's better to haul ass than to be wrong. Unless you think this is a game.

Well over a thousand people died in Katrina from the Op's blindness to possible consequences.

Exactly...thank you for stating the obvious...it's a pity you had to.

There were a lot of lessons learned from Katrina and as a result there has been surprising little loss of life from Harvey, and it remains to be seen from Irma.

Interestingly, and fortunately one of the lessons they learned was people wouldn't leave in Katrina because they did not want to leave their pets behind. Shelters did not allow pets. That has changed now - they evacuate pets with the people and certain shelters are designated for people with pets.

There were no lessons learned from Katrina, they just rebuilt in areas that are below sea level again. The ocean will just go around the levy built and come in from the back, the damage is done in ten seconds before any pump can work. That said the pumps are meaningless because you can't pump back into an ocean that is above the fucking pump. Major government fuckup.....................

Actually - the whole rebuilding issue - I agree with you on.

One of the reason's I'm so pissed when Trump cancelled one of the Obama era regulations that basically said IF they were going to rebuild - it was going to have to meet stronger standards in order to hold up in hurricanes. A lot of flood prone areas simply should not be rebuilt in.

So Houston, which has never flooded like this before, should be abandoned?

You really have not thought about this, have you?

No, as I said - FLOOD PRONE. You did see that right?

There are areas that are built up in natural flood plains - should never have been in the first place. Then to make it worse, you pave over huge areas, making it worse. New Orleans and Houston both represent areas where there should have been better control over what and how to build. But there wasn't. They are also huge established cities. What you can do, in some cases, is see if there are areas that shouldn't be rebuilt in, and not do so or - if they do - stop covering them for damage. That's probably more applicable to New Orleans...and coastal areas than Houston, but none the less Houston has had (is it 3 now?) major flooding events in as many years. That ought to be a planning wake up call don't you think?

Houston has an elevation of 80 feet. That noise you just heard was your argument flying out the window in a Cat 5 hurricane!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It was a cat 5 while in the caribbean. As evacuations take time, it needed to be done well before landfall. Your idiotic meme relies wholly on hindsight.

There are widespread cell service outages over a large portion of the state, dope.
AT&T Outage Map

When will power and cellphone services be restored? Patience urged

Most people that rode out the storm and yes, it was tropical storm conditions in the Miami area are glad they did...

You just kind of make stuff up and believe it, don't ya? 100+ mph winds in Miami. Deadly flooding in downtown, the toll of which was completely eased by the evacuations.

It floods downtown Miami every time it rains, not necessarily the same in the rest of Miami. Max wind speed they said at the national hurricane center - in Miami were 99 mph 98 right in there...

Have you ever tried walking in even 50 mph winds?

You are clueless! Utterly clueless!

We have 40-100 mile an hour winds all the time up here... it's very common

Bullshit! I am calling bullshit on everything you post simply because you make it up as you go.

 

[Rustic]

Evacuation should be a personal choice... i'd be fucking pissed if it's not my choice…

It IS a personal choice! The mandatory evacuations are not, actually, mandatory - nobody was dragged from their homes, they were merely warned that there would be no emergency services once winds reached 35-40mph and they'd be riding out whatever happened on their own.

The only people who were made to evacuate by the state were mentally ill homeless people who were sectioned for their own safety because they did not have the capacity to make a rational decision to risk death over an attachment to property and possessions.

That must be the OP's issue....he wants the choice to stay AND have the emergency services come rescue him from his stupid choices.

The Miami area could've been easily ridden out and was, evacuation was unnecessary there.

One slight right hand turn and Miami would have been toast.

Are you that stupid or must you continue posting in this thread to prove it to everyone?

A $150 Billion Misfire: How Disaster Models Got Irma Wrong

 

[Coyote]

Exactly...thank you for stating the obvious...it's a pity you had to.

There were a lot of lessons learned from Katrina and as a result there has been surprising little loss of life from Harvey, and it remains to be seen from Irma.

Interestingly, and fortunately one of the lessons they learned was people wouldn't leave in Katrina because they did not want to leave their pets behind. Shelters did not allow pets. That has changed now - they evacuate pets with the people and certain shelters are designated for people with pets.

There were no lessons learned from Katrina, they just rebuilt in areas that are below sea level again. The ocean will just go around the levy built and come in from the back, the damage is done in ten seconds before any pump can work. That said the pumps are meaningless because you can't pump back into an ocean that is above the fucking pump. Major government fuckup.....................

Actually - the whole rebuilding issue - I agree with you on.

One of the reason's I'm so pissed when Trump cancelled one of the Obama era regulations that basically said IF they were going to rebuild - it was going to have to meet stronger standards in order to hold up in hurricanes. A lot of flood prone areas simply should not be rebuilt in.

So Houston, which has never flooded like this before, should be abandoned?

You really have not thought about this, have you?

No, as I said - FLOOD PRONE. You did see that right?

There are areas that are built up in natural flood plains - should never have been in the first place. Then to make it worse, you pave over huge areas, making it worse. New Orleans and Houston both represent areas where there should have been better control over what and how to build. But there wasn't. They are also huge established cities. What you can do, in some cases, is see if there are areas that shouldn't be rebuilt in, and not do so or - if they do - stop covering them for damage. That's probably more applicable to New Orleans...and coastal areas than Houston, but none the less Houston has had (is it 3 now?) major flooding events in as many years. That ought to be a planning wake up call don't you think?

Houston has an elevation of 80 feet. That noise you just heard was your argument flying out the window in a Cat 5 hurricane!

Houston also has almost no drainage. It's built on clay that absorbs very little water, it's a different kind of problem than New Orleans, but still a serious problem as 3 major flood events have indicated.

 

[Coyote]

Evacuation should be a personal choice... i'd be fucking pissed if it's not my choice…

It IS a personal choice! The mandatory evacuations are not, actually, mandatory - nobody was dragged from their homes, they were merely warned that there would be no emergency services once winds reached 35-40mph and they'd be riding out whatever happened on their own.

The only people who were made to evacuate by the state were mentally ill homeless people who were sectioned for their own safety because they did not have the capacity to make a rational decision to risk death over an attachment to property and possessions.

That must be the OP's issue....he wants the choice to stay AND have the emergency services come rescue him from his stupid choices.

The Miami area could've been easily ridden out and was, evacuation was unnecessary there.

One slight right hand turn and Miami would have been toast.

Are you that stupid or must you continue posting in this thread to prove it to everyone?

A $150 Billion Misfire: How Disaster Models Got Irma Wrong

Hurricane predictions are notoriously difficult. The more important "data point" is how FEW lives have been lost.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The government really dropped the ball on this one

The only thing that was dropped was your being dropped on your head too many times as a child.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There were no lessons learned from Katrina, they just rebuilt in areas that are below sea level again. The ocean will just go around the levy built and come in from the back, the damage is done in ten seconds before any pump can work. That said the pumps are meaningless because you can't pump back into an ocean that is above the fucking pump. Major government fuckup.....................

Actually - the whole rebuilding issue - I agree with you on.

One of the reason's I'm so pissed when Trump cancelled one of the Obama era regulations that basically said IF they were going to rebuild - it was going to have to meet stronger standards in order to hold up in hurricanes. A lot of flood prone areas simply should not be rebuilt in.

So Houston, which has never flooded like this before, should be abandoned?

You really have not thought about this, have you?

No, as I said - FLOOD PRONE. You did see that right?

There are areas that are built up in natural flood plains - should never have been in the first place. Then to make it worse, you pave over huge areas, making it worse. New Orleans and Houston both represent areas where there should have been better control over what and how to build. But there wasn't. They are also huge established cities. What you can do, in some cases, is see if there are areas that shouldn't be rebuilt in, and not do so or - if they do - stop covering them for damage. That's probably more applicable to New Orleans...and coastal areas than Houston, but none the less Houston has had (is it 3 now?) major flooding events in as many years. That ought to be a planning wake up call don't you think?

Houston has an elevation of 80 feet. That noise you just heard was your argument flying out the window in a Cat 5 hurricane!

Houston also has almost no drainage. It's built on clay that absorbs very little water, it's a different kind of problem than New Orleans, but still a serious problem as 3 major flood events have indicated.

I live not too far from the Ohio River. It floods every year. Should we move the cities along it back onto the high ground?

 

[Rustic]

The government really dropped the ball on this one

The only thing that was dropped was your being dropped on your head too many times as a child.

The government/mainstream media fucked up all the way around on this one… I feel sorry for the disabled and elderly people that had to evacuate in the heat and humidity and wait all day waiting for shelter unnecessarily. And then there are those that evacuated to the wrong side of Florida… One big cluster fuck

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They cant predict the weather for tomorrow so why trust them? They had the poor people in Florida scared shitless for over a week.....well except for all the "white" looters. what a joke

Evacuated areas are a playground for looters

Please stay in a surge zone next time. You'll be washed out to sea and won't be missed!

Most of the people were not the surge Zone...
there's gonna be a lot of lawsuits

For what?

I recommend you log off your computer and seek medical treatment. You rare seriously losing whatever mental faculties you ever possessed.

 

[Rustic]

They cant predict the weather for tomorrow so why trust them? They had the poor people in Florida scared shitless for over a week.....well except for all the "white" looters. what a joke

Evacuated areas are a playground for looters

Please stay in a surge zone next time. You'll be washed out to sea and won't be missed!

Most of the people were not the surge Zone...
there's gonna be a lot of lawsuits

For what?

I recommend you log off your computer and seek medical treatment. You rare seriously losing whatever mental faculties you ever possessed.

How incompetent government and the mainstream media are... lol
FUBAR....

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The government really dropped the ball on this one

The first landfall in the keys was a cat4!

Shear weakened it between the keys and southwest Florida...How exactly did the government drop the ball? The nhc at the 5am forecast predicted that the shear would weaken the cyclone before it made landfall:

5am discussion
However, vertical wind shear is increasing over Irma, and the shear is expected to become strongwithin 24 h. This, combined with land interaction, should cause at
least a steady weakening from 12-36 h. The new intensity forecast
is slightly lower than that of the previous advisory at those
times, but it still calls for Irma to be a major hurricane at its
closest approach to the Tampa Bay area.

And guess what it was a a major hurricane....

Them and the mainstream media told people to evacuate to the wrong side of Florida and the elderly and disabled had to sit for hours-days in the heat and humidity unnecessarily for shelter.
There are going to be years of lawsuits, The government fucked this one up

Bullshit! Bullshit! Bullshit!

They never told anyone to evacuate just one side of Florida. Seek help now!

You are slipping from whatever grasp you had on reality? Do you have another adult that is close by that can see to your healthcare needs? If not, dial 911.

 

[Coyote]

Actually - the whole rebuilding issue - I agree with you on.

One of the reason's I'm so pissed when Trump cancelled one of the Obama era regulations that basically said IF they were going to rebuild - it was going to have to meet stronger standards in order to hold up in hurricanes. A lot of flood prone areas simply should not be rebuilt in.

So Houston, which has never flooded like this before, should be abandoned?

You really have not thought about this, have you?

No, as I said - FLOOD PRONE. You did see that right?

There are areas that are built up in natural flood plains - should never have been in the first place. Then to make it worse, you pave over huge areas, making it worse. New Orleans and Houston both represent areas where there should have been better control over what and how to build. But there wasn't. They are also huge established cities. What you can do, in some cases, is see if there are areas that shouldn't be rebuilt in, and not do so or - if they do - stop covering them for damage. That's probably more applicable to New Orleans...and coastal areas than Houston, but none the less Houston has had (is it 3 now?) major flooding events in as many years. That ought to be a planning wake up call don't you think?

Houston has an elevation of 80 feet. That noise you just heard was your argument flying out the window in a Cat 5 hurricane!

Houston also has almost no drainage. It's built on clay that absorbs very little water, it's a different kind of problem than New Orleans, but still a serious problem as 3 major flood events have indicated.

I live not too far from the Ohio River. It floods every year. Should we move the cities along it back onto the high ground?

No. I think you are misunderstanding me (deliberately?) - you can't alter entire cities. But you can alter portions. If an area repeatedly suffers damaging flooding, is on a floodplain - should you continue to allow rebuilding?

Options are - relocate neighborhood.
Rebuild with the notice that should it flood again there will be no government help.
Rebuild mandating a HIGHER standard in order to withstand flooding.

I think the decision depends on the area.

What would you do?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So Houston, which has never flooded like this before, should be abandoned?

You really have not thought about this, have you?

No, as I said - FLOOD PRONE. You did see that right?

There are areas that are built up in natural flood plains - should never have been in the first place. Then to make it worse, you pave over huge areas, making it worse. New Orleans and Houston both represent areas where there should have been better control over what and how to build. But there wasn't. They are also huge established cities. What you can do, in some cases, is see if there are areas that shouldn't be rebuilt in, and not do so or - if they do - stop covering them for damage. That's probably more applicable to New Orleans...and coastal areas than Houston, but none the less Houston has had (is it 3 now?) major flooding events in as many years. That ought to be a planning wake up call don't you think?

Houston has an elevation of 80 feet. That noise you just heard was your argument flying out the window in a Cat 5 hurricane!

Houston also has almost no drainage. It's built on clay that absorbs very little water, it's a different kind of problem than New Orleans, but still a serious problem as 3 major flood events have indicated.

I live not too far from the Ohio River. It floods every year. Should we move the cities along it back onto the high ground?

No. I think you are misunderstanding me (deliberately?) - you can't alter entire cities. But you can alter portions. If an area repeatedly suffers damaging flooding, is on a floodplain - should you continue to allow rebuilding?

Options are - relocate neighborhood.
Rebuild with the notice that should it flood again there will be no government help.
Rebuild mandating a HIGHER standard in order to withstand flooding.

I think the decision depends on the area.

What would you do?

I am taking you literally. It forces you to backpedal just like you are doing in this post.

Also, you need to look at the definition of flood plain. You don't have it quite right.

 

[Coyote]

No, as I said - FLOOD PRONE. You did see that right?

There are areas that are built up in natural flood plains - should never have been in the first place. Then to make it worse, you pave over huge areas, making it worse. New Orleans and Houston both represent areas where there should have been better control over what and how to build. But there wasn't. They are also huge established cities. What you can do, in some cases, is see if there are areas that shouldn't be rebuilt in, and not do so or - if they do - stop covering them for damage. That's probably more applicable to New Orleans...and coastal areas than Houston, but none the less Houston has had (is it 3 now?) major flooding events in as many years. That ought to be a planning wake up call don't you think?

Houston has an elevation of 80 feet. That noise you just heard was your argument flying out the window in a Cat 5 hurricane!

Houston also has almost no drainage. It's built on clay that absorbs very little water, it's a different kind of problem than New Orleans, but still a serious problem as 3 major flood events have indicated.

I live not too far from the Ohio River. It floods every year. Should we move the cities along it back onto the high ground?

No. I think you are misunderstanding me (deliberately?) - you can't alter entire cities. But you can alter portions. If an area repeatedly suffers damaging flooding, is on a floodplain - should you continue to allow rebuilding?

Options are - relocate neighborhood.
Rebuild with the notice that should it flood again there will be no government help.
Rebuild mandating a HIGHER standard in order to withstand flooding.

I think the decision depends on the area.

What would you do?

I am taking you literally. It forces you to backpedal just like you are doing in this post.

Also, you need to look at the definition of flood plain. You don't have it quite right.

I'm not backpedaling. I've never proposed moving entire cities - it's simply not feasible.

But YOU are avoiding my question where as I've proposed some thoughts on it.

What would you do?

Why is Houston so prone to major flooding?

Houston is barely above sea level. Downtown is only about 50 feet above sea level, and there's only about a four-foot change between the highest and lowest parts of downtown. That means when rain falls, it has nowhere to go, and takes a long time to drain out.

Some of the southern suburbs are even lower...at 40 feet above sea level. The highest point in the city, in the northwest suburbs is only 128 feet above sea level.

Once the bayous flood, the freeway system functions as a de-facto secondary flood control system, even though it isn't supposed to. New freeways are built to handle 100-year floods, but we've already exceeded the conditions that define a 100-year flood at in many spots with the flooding from Harvey.

Once the water overtops the freeways, you get to the residential streets which are recessed in a bit as a final small flood control measure. As soon as the water gets above that and onto the sidewalks, homes start flooding.

Some experts also point to Houston's big building boom as a potential factor, in exacerbating the problem Development decreased the amount of wetlands in the city by almost 50 percent over the last 25 years.

All that hard, impermeable pavement means there's less land to soak up rainfall after a major storm.

Combine all that with the fact Houston is only about 50 miles from the Gulf of Mexico. That puts it right in the path of slow-moving storms that can generate massive amounts of rainfall.

In fact, the number of downpours measuring at least 10 inches have doubled over the last 30 years.

So, when a slow-moving storm like Hurricane Harvey hits the city, flooding can be intense — more intense than ever.

Houston's Buffalo Bayou reached a record 69-foot crest in one area Sunday.

In general, one inch of rain equals about a foot rise in river levels. With at least six inches still possible in Houston on Monday, the Buffalo Bayou could rise another six feet.​

 

[Markle]

The only person who considers Key West to be a paradise at the moment, is the junkman

LOTS of flooding. I lived in the Old Town part of Key West which was the highest part. Some roads would regularly go under seawater if there was an exceptionally high tide. Key West didn't get the worst of the storm, that was up North of Marathon. The Hemmingway House is okay along with their six toed cats.

I'll have to go down there next year. The company I worked for couldn't get other assistant managers to stay down there. They were married and didn't have anything to do and it was really expensive even then. I lucked out and took over the place where the guy I replaced lived. Modern duplex built inside of an old concrete block and stucco warehouse so it was completely private and beautifully landscaped. It was a one bedroom apartment, furnished and the owner flew down from New York to meet me before they'd rent it to me. He was the curator of the Museum of Modern Art in New York. OLD New York money but delightful people. I paid $175.00 a month which was the only way I could afford to live in Key West proper. They just wanted someone to look after the place when they were in New York nine months of the year.

The district manager of another chain store I worked for knew I was down there and hired me as the front end manager part time for his store. I was to train their grocery manager. I was a professional diver so I befriended several captains of the dive boats and shrimp boats. If they were short a crew member, they'd call me and both my managers would let me take that day off. It was paradise! Best years of my life.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The government really dropped the ball on this one

The only thing that was dropped was your being dropped on your head too many times as a child.

The government/mainstream media fucked up all the way around on this one… I feel sorry for the disabled and elderly people that had to evacuate in the heat and humidity and wait all day waiting for shelter unnecessarily. And then there are those that evacuated to the wrong side of Florida… One big cluster fuck

When will you get this through that cement block you carry around where most people have a head?

Evacuations were to save peoples lives. Florida has one exit in case of a hurricane and that is north.